this wouldn't happen iRL - I sell Tierney from Celtic for £59m and half the team is unhappy

[madeirabhoy]

early in the game as manager of Celtic, I get bids of 12-20m for Keiran Tierney. knock them back, except Chelseas I negotiate and wack it way up, 35m up front and another 20m in definite (after 50 games, after 10 internationals etc) add ons. Tierney makes it clear he wants to leave, preferring Man City. alas city won't spend that sort of money, but at the last minute Man Utd gazump Chelsea with £59m bid.

 

I have to take it. in real life Celtic would have to accept a bit of 25m especially if he wanted to go.

 

so he goes with my blessing, and we are rich I tell you..rich...

 

and then all of a sudden half the squad want to meet with me to tell me they are unhappy. despite me saying are you all crazy,  its £59m! some of them are still unhappy. the worst is the club captain, Scott brown. a player who would entirely understand why we have to accept a bid like that.

 

 

[Damedius]

Can't wait for the onslaught of people saying this is just like real life and makes total sense.

In all honesty it's something they probably won't change. SI has enough problems trying to fix all the bugs, the majority of which will remain until the this game is abandoned for the next one.

[herne79]

If you believe something is off here, the best thing you can do is open a thread in the Bugs forum, upload a copy of your game save and ask SI to take a look.  Whether it's found to be a bug or not, there may still be something SI could take from it for a future update.  The point you make about the club captain for example is a potentially interesting one.

ok, some players are always going to be upset when the club's best players get sold, but context is important and Celtic taking £59m from Man Utd seems a decent enough deal to me.  Of course the other side of context is how you as the manager deal with players and your own standing amongst them.

[Xeewaj Q.]

Yep, this year players are very fragile. Sold 32 y.o. rotation player on last year of the contract, who started to decline. Almost for value and without wage contribution! Signed Vidal, Rakitic, Lo Celso and R.Sanches on a free transfer (yay me).

Captain (!) started to emit unhappiness (it was not the first case). During the talk, he threatened me and started a riot after it. It was hard to calm the team without promising any signings (as I already signed all I want/can). He's lucky to be 1 of 4 homegrowns, but when I get a replacement, I'll sell him immediately (and probably someone else will start a riot again). Also, his training ratings are about 6/10 now. Professional my ass... Demoted him from captain to team mascot.

What I hate the most about this situation is:

Manager: are you unhappy, kiddo?

Player: I'm enraged 'cause you sold Joe Cheater! He was heart and soul of the team!

Manager: He was underperforming, declining and near the end of his contract.

Player: I don't care, you'll regret this!

Manager: What if I sign a replacement?

Player: Deal. F**k Joe Cheater. I'm happy now.

Like kids, really.

[Miravlix]

Getting rid of "friends" seem to be the new thing in FM19, you can't touch the old and declined players without problems.

 

I usually loan them out until the contract run out, it gets them away from the other players so the attachment might be less?

[KingCanary]

I'd also gamble that IRL nobody is paying 60m for a left back in the SPL.

[forameuss]

9 hours ago, Damedius said:

Can't wait for the onslaught of people saying this is just like real life and makes total sense.

In all honesty it's something they probably won't change. SI has enough problems trying to fix all the bugs, the majority of which will remain until the this game is abandoned for the next one.

Oooh, someone's still salty.

10 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

early in the game as manager of Celtic, I get bids of 12-20m for Keiran Tierney. knock them back, except Chelseas I negotiate and wack it way up, 35m up front and another 20m in definite (after 50 games, after 10 internationals etc) add ons. Tierney makes it clear he wants to leave, preferring Man City. alas city won't spend that sort of money, but at the last minute Man Utd gazump Chelsea with £59m bid.

I have to take it. in real life Celtic would have to accept a bit of 25m especially if he wanted to go.

so he goes with my blessing, and we are rich I tell you..rich...

and then all of a sudden half the squad want to meet with me to tell me they are unhappy. despite me saying are you all crazy,  its £59m! some of them are still unhappy. the worst is the club captain, Scott brown. a player who would entirely understand why we have to accept a bid like that.

Then like herne says, probably worth raising a bug with a save.  It won't really get "seen" here, and end up being just a venting thread.  With an example save in the bugs forum, it'll get looked at by the right people, and they can either explain why it was working as intended, or potentially pick up something worth fixing.  Did nothing you say make a difference to the unhappiness?  I always found when players came to you, it was pretty easy to pacify most of them.

9 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

I'd also gamble that IRL nobody is paying 60m for a left back in the SPL.

Well clearly someone was in-game, which is what matters.  It's always difficult to draw real world parallels given these events are happening some time into a completely alternate world that hasn't happened in real life.  

The negotiation module in FM is always going to mean that you can rinse teams for higher values if you play it right.  It's quite a simplistic process really.

[Kanwulf]

Dembele Dollars 

In seriousness, there should be an option to tell your team that there was absolutely no way you could turn down such a huge deal that would benefit the squad in all aspects

[jayahr]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Xeewaj Q.:

Manager: are you unhappy, kiddo?

Player: I'm enraged 'cause you sold Joe Cheater! He was heart and soul of the team!

Manager: He was underperforming, declining and near the end of his contract.

Player: I don't care, you'll regret this!

Manager: What if I sign a replacement?

Player: Deal. F**k Joe Cheater. I'm happy now.

Like kids, really.

Thanks for raising a smile in my office

[RandomGuy.]

32 minutes ago, Kanwulf said:

Dembele Dollars 

In seriousness, there should be an option to tell your team that there was absolutely no way you could turn down such a huge deal that would benefit the squad in all aspects

There is.

Players get upset when popular player and friend of many leaves. Manager tells them player wanted to move and the money was too much to reject. Everyone moves on when squad gets strengthened and results are sailing in.

Doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility to me.

[Dagenham_Dave]

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

There is.

Players get upset when popular player and friend of many leaves. Manager tells them player wanted to move and the money was too much to reject. Everyone moves on when squad gets strengthened and results are sailing in.

Doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility to me.

This. 

They've added more contextual answers this year when things like this happen. 

I'm always amused how people confidently claim this wouldn't happen in real life while all the time having absolutely no idea what goes on behind closed doors at a football club. 

[Neil Brock]

12 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

early in the game as manager of Celtic, I get bids of 12-20m for Keiran Tierney. knock them back, except Chelseas I negotiate and wack it way up, 35m up front and another 20m in definite (after 50 games, after 10 internationals etc) add ons. Tierney makes it clear he wants to leave, preferring Man City. alas city won't spend that sort of money, but at the last minute Man Utd gazump Chelsea with £59m bid.

I have to take it. in real life Celtic would have to accept a bit of 25m especially if he wanted to go.

so he goes with my blessing, and we are rich I tell you..rich...

and then all of a sudden half the squad want to meet with me to tell me they are unhappy. despite me saying are you all crazy,  its £59m! some of them are still unhappy. the worst is the club captain, Scott brown. a player who would entirely understand why we have to accept a bid like that.

So just to clarify here, what happened when you met the squad? What did you say and how did they react? 

[cris182]

2 hours ago, forameuss said:

Oooh, someone's still salty.

Then like herne says, probably worth raising a bug with a save.  It won't really get "seen" here, and end up being just a venting thread.  With an example save in the bugs forum, it'll get looked at by the right people, and they can either explain why it was working as intended, or potentially pick up something worth fixing.  Did nothing you say make a difference to the unhappiness?  I always found when players came to you, it was pretty easy to pacify most of them.

Well clearly someone was in-game, which is what matters.  It's always difficult to draw real world parallels given these events are happening some time into a completely alternate world that hasn't happened in real life.  

The negotiation module in FM is always going to mean that you can rinse teams for higher values if you play it right.  It's quite a simplistic process really.

So the players complaining is ok too then? 

[Kanwulf]

37 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

This. 

They've added more contextual answers this year when things like this happen. 

I'm always amused how people confidently claim this wouldn't happen in real life while all the time having absolutely no idea what goes on behind closed doors at a football club. 

I've not had this situation on FM19 so I haven't seen the more contextual offers.

[kozmik]

I wonder, if you had rejected all the bids would the same players have complained because you refused to let an unhappy player leave?

[enigmatic]

I think the main thing here is it's basically tied to player ability/reputation rather than context.

Big money or not, losing fantastic player Kieran Tierney isn't going to make a huge difference to Celtic's near-certainty of winning the SPL and minimal chance of winning European trophies unless your situation has changed a lot. Losing Kieran Tierney without a promise of a replacement might be a "final straw" when you're unexpectedly down third in the league though, good deal or not.

The way answers tend to get tied to crude "promises" is very unconvincing too. If you tell the squad you think the young players have got the talent to step up the natural reaction is relevant young players being delighted, expectant or nervous (depending on the personality) about the future opportunities, not the entire squad including the high-performing senior player you ended up picking there instead for most games silently waiting until the end of the next title-winning season before becoming furious at your "broken promise" because starts for U21 players < $hiddenmagicnumber.

[Viking]

I don't care if it's ultra realistic, this is a part of FM I've never liked and probably never will. And it's definitly worse in FM19.

To me, it just feels like a never ending line of players going "Whaa! Whaa! I am a big baby!"

And all my options feels like "Ok. Please make a big fuss of this and disrupt team morale".

[Dagenham_Dave]

14 minutes ago, Viking said:

I don't care if it's ultra realistic, this is a part of FM I've never liked and probably never will.

I'm sure SI will make the game specifically designed around your needs next time. 

[DalyBhoy]

Celtic are massively overrated in the game as well.

Although, I don't have a problem with player values, as I think our best players can easily play in EPL and thus command EPL money (although Tierney for 59mill is a bit too much).

[mersk]

18 hours ago, Xeewaj Q. said:

Yep, this year players are very fragile.

Not just this year.

I remember selling Lovren in FM18, Henderson didn't give two ***** about captaining the side to a historic treble, he was more concerned with the sale of legendary dressing room leader Dejan Lovren and quickly handed in a transfer request.

[Viking]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'm sure SI will make the game specifically designed around your needs next time. 

They sure will.

[Tom8983]

1 hour ago, mersk said:

Not just this year.

I remember selling Lovren in FM18, Henderson didn't give two ***** about captaining the side to a historic treble, he was more concerned with the sale of legendary dressing room leader Dejan Lovren and quickly handed in a transfer request.

Lovren was easy to handle. Just don't play him for a month or two (and let's face it, why would you play him!?) and he'll want to leave. Then with any complaints about him being sold you just use the 'he was unhappy and wanted to leave' options, or even 'he never really found any form' works too.

[madeirabhoy]

happened again. 

 

I admit to cheating, only cos its early in the game and one of the players I wanted to sign I just offered him what he asked for, then he signed for someone else.  so I quit and went back to the saved game just before Tierney was sold. the same two bids I got, the other teams again wouldn't touch half that. so Chelsea or united for between 54 and 59 million. then arsenal came in with 64. accepted all 3.

 

and he didn't accept any of their offers. I thought wow I know he's Celtic through and through so I went to offer him a new contract. he won't accept one as he wants to leave. so wants to leave but knocks back 3 massive EPL clubs for 54-64m transfers.

 

in the meantime Griffiths moans he isn't getting a game. in some ways thats more realistic than the real life version where griffiths doesn't moan that he's not getting a game. I say ill let him leave coz I know if I don't the team will moan. so burnley come in with 20m, again a bit unrealistic figure, I accept, he goes.

 

and the whole team moans.....

[mersk]

1 hour ago, Tom8983 said:

Lovren was easy to handle. Just don't play him for a month or two (and let's face it, why would you play him!?) and he'll want to leave. Then with any complaints about him being sold you just use the 'he was unhappy and wanted to leave' options, or even 'he never really found any form' works too.

That's not the point though...

[RedJonnyBoy]

I've just started a Hertha Berlin save and two of my best players have have interest from other clubs. They both get non negotiable bids for 2-3m under their value. I reject them (obviously), the players get salty and then after I have a chat with the two players, half the squad come at me with rocks! The whole squad behaviour when something happens just seems a little fragile this year.

[mightypvfc]

I'm not sure why Tierney would reject 1 of the big PL clubs unless they offered him pittance or a low squad role. I can imagine him wanting a big wage, around £100k with regular football and heavy bonuses. The big 3 probably don't see him as that valuable.

[ceefax the cat]

Conversations with players have never made any sense at all and I don't think many would miss them if they were scrapped completely

[wardog]

This topic is interesting and definately think this is a bug but got me thinking about my save and I'd suspect ai had similar issues. I'm playing as rangers. 

3 interesting points in my save. Firstly big improvement to si transfers in general Celtic reinvested alot of what they brought in all be it a chunk went on loan wages. 

So January window and interest in both Tierney and ajer start going off. Ajer leaves for 30m plus add-ons to Bayern. Celtic hold firm for Tierney despite huge offers. Was seeing in the region for 30-50m bids with another 30-40m in add-ons being rejected. Which honestly as their rivals was a big fear. 

Opens the summer window and what I can only describe as choas hits. I won the league so this might amplifiy this alot. But Tierney leaves for 19m with another 3m in add-ons - given the offers they turned down in the January doesn't seem right. But then there was almost a fire sale. McGregor went to Chelsea for big money, Eduard to Spain for big money. And sure there was another couple although could be wrong as going off the top of my head. 

The ins were a few major signings and alot of top class loans (literally I would put them in favourites to win Europa league with their signings) to boost their squad. 

The money in for someone like McGregor seemed very high was very similar to that of Tierney. 

I think a big part of some of these going could have been the dynamics. 

That said a team in the spfl bringing in over 100m over two windows in a row also seems excessive. Especially early in the game. Maybe I'm just salty that I had a tiny budget to go and compete with.

[cris182]

19 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

happened again. 

 

I admit to cheating, only cos its early in the game and one of the players I wanted to sign I just offered him what he asked for, then he signed for someone else.  so I quit and went back to the saved game just before Tierney was sold. the same two bids I got, the other teams again wouldn't touch half that. so Chelsea or united for between 54 and 59 million. then arsenal came in with 64. accepted all 3.

 

and he didn't accept any of their offers. I thought wow I know he's Celtic through and through so I went to offer him a new contract. he won't accept one as he wants to leave. so wants to leave but knocks back 3 massive EPL clubs for 54-64m transfers.

 

in the meantime Griffiths moans he isn't getting a game. in some ways thats more realistic than the real life version where griffiths doesn't moan that he's not getting a game. I say ill let him leave coz I know if I don't the team will moan. so burnley come in with 20m, again a bit unrealistic figure, I accept, he goes.

 

and the whole team moans.....

Or it's just that we aren't allowed that information in real life, We only get it in game as we are the manager 

[KingCanary]

On FM17 the players came across as dumb as bricks in the interaction.

'I can't believe you're refusing to let star player X leave- it isn't fair to stand in the way of his career.'

'Selling him will make the team worse and I don't want that.'

'Oh yeah I hadn't thought selling our best player would make us worse, I'm fine with it now.'

[Neil Brock]

19 hours ago, madeirabhoy said:

happened again. 

 

I admit to cheating, only cos its early in the game and one of the players I wanted to sign I just offered him what he asked for, then he signed for someone else.  so I quit and went back to the saved game just before Tierney was sold. the same two bids I got, the other teams again wouldn't touch half that. so Chelsea or united for between 54 and 59 million. then arsenal came in with 64. accepted all 3.

 

and he didn't accept any of their offers. I thought wow I know he's Celtic through and through so I went to offer him a new contract. he won't accept one as he wants to leave. so wants to leave but knocks back 3 massive EPL clubs for 54-64m transfers.

 

in the meantime Griffiths moans he isn't getting a game. in some ways thats more realistic than the real life version where griffiths doesn't moan that he's not getting a game. I say ill let him leave coz I know if I don't the team will moan. so burnley come in with 20m, again a bit unrealistic figure, I accept, he goes.

 

and the whole team moans.....

Again as asked before, what happened when you met the squad? What did you say and how did they react? 

[StevehFC]

Arsenal signed TIerney for £62M in my save. 

[iAlwaysWin]

3 hours ago, StevehFC said:

Arsenal signed TIerney for £62M in my save. 

I wouldnt even sell him for that, hes worth double that to a team like arsenal, quality left back with all the right attributes to be the very best, any aspirition to win the c.l with Celtic hes a must keep for me.

[ravenation]

On 23/11/2018 at 11:55, Neil Brock said:

So just to clarify here, what happened when you met the squad? What did you say and how did they react? 

You dont mean seriously it can be an issue that the squad call a manager for team meeting because he sell a player? 

How can it even be a question what you answered?

It happens in all the versions of FM, even when you play Torquay and sell a player for 10 million euro in Southern conference.

And what the biggest problem with this is, that players with bad morale underperform. So you can get a bad season or lose that cup semifinal due to this, which means that players that are angry you sold xxx for double his value, will play badly in an important cup game. Come on ...........

This is one of the issues where SI games need to understand that all this psychologist crap in the game are 50% of the times not even close to realistic.

[RandomGuy.]

20 hours ago, KingCanary said:

On FM17 the players came across as dumb as bricks in the interaction.

'I can't believe you're refusing to let star player X leave- it isn't fair to stand in the way of his career.'

'Selling him will make the team worse and I don't want that.'

'Oh yeah I hadn't thought selling our best player would make us worse, I'm fine with it now.'

They still are.

"Hi, I hear you have an issue?"

"I want more game time, but I don't care anymore because you come to talk about it with me, cheers"

[enigmatic]

14 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

I wouldnt even sell him for that, hes worth double that to a team like arsenal, quality left back with all the right attributes to be the very best, any aspirition to win the c.l with Celtic hes a must keep for me.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Celtic's board would certainly accept the biggest fee of all time for a fullback and Arsenal certainly wouldn't double their biggest ever spend on a single player for a fullback.

[iAlwaysWin]

4 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Celtic's board would certainly accept the biggest fee of all time for a fullback and Arsenal certainly wouldn't double their biggest ever spend on a single player for a fullback.

Which is why the Celtic board have no ambition and why am the manager of Chelsea and not Celtic. I dont sell my best players at any price.

[madeirabhoy]

On 24/11/2018 at 15:22, Neil Brock said:

Again as asked before, what happened when you met the squad? What did you say and how did they react? 

they said they were unhappy, in the Tierney situation I said that we have to look after finances, and most of them were okay but brown was still pissed off. In the Griffiths situation I said he wanted to go, and a couple of them were still unhappy. 

[wardog]

8 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Which is why the Celtic board have no ambition and why am the manager of Chelsea and not Celtic. I dont sell my best players at any price.

You cant say they have no ambition. It's not always about the player. No player is bigger than the club. I say that as a fan of a rival club. 

Celtic don't have access to sky's billions so a completely different situation to Chelsea. Ambition has to be longer term and selling players at high prices repeatedly is a business model which can create longer term success over 1 world class player being held onto 

[iAlwaysWin]

9 hours ago, wardog said:

You cant say they have no ambition. It's not always about the player. No player is bigger than the club. I say that as a fan of a rival club. 

Celtic don't have access to sky's billions so a completely different situation to Chelsea. Ambition has to be longer term and selling players at high prices repeatedly is a business model which can create longer term success over 1 world class player being held onto 

In FM everything you have just said doesnt apply, because FM isnt real life and the main objective is to win everything, and with Tierney in my team id say that gives me a better chance, also depending on the team is also improved. Selling and investing is really up to debate on who you sign and what not. Can improvement can be made without selling? id say most definetly.

[wardog]

7 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

In FM everything you have just said doesnt apply, because FM isnt real life and the main objective is to win everything, and with Tierney in my team id say that gives me a better chance, also depending on the team is also improved. Selling and investing is really up to debate on who you sign and what not. Can improvement can be made without selling? id say most definetly.

Even if Celtic won the champions league they bring in around 15m for group stage and 5m per tie afterwords. 1.7m TV money and 3m league prize money cups aren't even worth discussing. 

So best case scenario they've sold a player for more than a yearly prize money income. 

How does income not apply? 

[iAlwaysWin]

24 minutes ago, wardog said:

Even if Celtic won the champions league they bring in around 15m for group stage and 5m per tie afterwords. 1.7m TV money and 3m league prize money cups aren't even worth discussing. 

So best case scenario they've sold a player for more than a yearly prize money income. 

How does income not apply? 

History over income all day long, 1967 anyone? this post actually amuses me.

[forameuss]

13 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

History over income all day long, 1967 anyone? this post actually amuses me.

Much as this post would probably amuse a lot of chairman and owners nowadays.