What is Wrong With This Tactic

[Jops14]

Hi All, 

Having a nightmare atm on FM19, my team just cannot defend, have tended to use 2 tactics frequently over last 5 years with a lot of success. A 4-4-2 diamond with attacking wing backs and an anchor man, (so in attack should transition to a 3-4-3) and recently due to that no longer working (anchor man stopped dropping back properly) I have changed to a 5-2-1-2. 

I just cant get it to work on this version, no matter how wide I want them to defend they don't, I am constantly getting pulled apart by wingers, long shots are always going in, and my defence get pulled over to one flank, only for a long ball to switch flanks and a cross to find an unmarked striekr at the far post. It seems every goal I score the opposition immediately reply and it's killing me.

My general philosophy is to have a quick, direct style, I want to turn defence into attack quickly with wingbacks pushing into space to provide width and crosses, seems to be ok on attack, though it slows down in the middle a lot and my players tend to lose possesion regularly in the middle of the park, any advice is welcome.

If it doesnt look that bad, it's because I lost my mind against watford after being 1-0 up, having 30 shots, hitting the post 3 times, and then they scored 3 goals in the space of 15 minutes.

 

[Experienced Defender]

Attacking mentality + both WBs on attack duty (plus overlaps on both sides, which additionally increases their mentality) + higher DL & LOE + extremely urgent pressing + counter-press = no wonder that you are so vulnerable defensively, especially on the flanks. In fact, your results aren't bad at all when all this is taken into account. 

[Jops14]

I've tried changing wing back mentality to support and they just don't get forward quickly enough, they end up sitting back for ages and so don't provide any width. We aren't getting beaten on counter attacks, we're getting picked apart when teams have a load of possession and everyone is back in their defensive positions, so a back 5.

 

I'm going to try switching them to wing back and support, and change mentality to "positive". Looking back a lot of issues come from crap distribution or defenders losing the ball, so going to get GK to just send it long and see what happens

[Experienced Defender]

21 minutes ago, Jops14 said:

I've tried changing wing back mentality to support and they just don't get forward quickly enough, they end up sitting back for ages and so don't provide any width

This is likely due to the much higher tempo setting, so most of attacks are already over even before the WBs manage to get forward.

 

24 minutes ago, Jops14 said:

We aren't getting beaten on counter attacks, we're getting picked apart when teams have a load of possession and everyone is back in their defensive positions, so a back 5.

Okay, but then bear in mind your higher DL and LOE plus extremely urgent pressing and counter-press (and all this in combination with attacking mentality). With such aggressive out-of-possession instructions, most of your players (not only defenders) are out of position most of the time while hassling the opposition all over the pitch.

[summatsupeer]

9th with Newcastle and those players looks pretty good tbh.

Attacking is an extreme mentality, its very risky, forward thinking, quick, wide, high line and pressing.  You've then added to it with more direct passing, quicker tempo, higher d-line, higher engagement, wider attack. Do you need all those instructions on top of the mentality? 

You've then added Look For Overlap to both flanks, but there's no advanced wide players to hold up the ball to wait for an overlap so you've just bumped up the mentality of the WBs, is this needed when you have a CWB-A and WB-A?

Run at Defence, who do you think this will affect and who do you want it to affect?  The AF-A, CWB-A and WB-A will already run often with the ball, do you want others like the DLF-S and AM-A to do so to?

As far as roles and duties go, I don't like the BBM.  You already have 2 forwards with an AM-A behind them so 3 central attackers with two attacking wingbacks, i'd prefer to give them a base to recycle possession and provide cover with a defend duty to sit deeper and help the DLP-S.

[Jops14]

Ah ok ok, so i tried reducing the line and changing wingbacks to support duty and burnley pasted me 4-0, constantly had the ball in my final 3rd and just put endless crosses into the boix.

 

So if i want to keep overlap maybe I should get rid of counter instructions and reduce the tempo a little.

 

Also to ExD, no i was mostly finding our back 5 was consistant, just crosses over the top killed us constantly.

 

 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Jops14 said:

Also to ExD, no i was mostly finding our back 5 was consistant, just crosses over the top killed us constantly

Well, you said it yourself - "crosses over the top". And bear in mind that mentality also affects all instructions, including defensive ones. So even if you played with the deepest (lowest) possible d-line on attacking mentality, it would still be considerably higher than the same setting on a lower mentality, and on top of that - with a higher mentality, your players are more aggressive (and willing to take risks) when attempting to win the possession back from the opposition. I fear that for a team like Newcastle (which is not bad but is far from being a top side) attacking mentality as part of your main tactic is too hazardous even if your other tactical settings (including roles and duties) were far more conservative (cautious). 

[Jops14]

Probably, I have switched to attacking due to the significant upgrade in player we have this season. I've just lifted this tactic from what i've run in the past 2 Fm's, but admittedly I nonly start to dominate with it around the time I have a team full of good regens, so perhaps less to do with the tactic and more to do with the player executing anything at that point.

 

I holidayed the burnley game and the AI ran a 4-3-3 and won 5-2...