Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[jaycar]

WWfan, which OI instructions are best against a chelsea style 433?

[Finknottle]

crouchaldinho, thanks for your assistance, as usual. I am playing a 4-5-1 system with a flat back four, one DMC, two CM's on the halfway line position, an AMR and L and a lone striker. Depending on how you view it my tactic can also be seen as 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1. It is the best way that I can fit my best players into their best positions.

I was unsure what effect the MC bring used as an FCa would have on the balance of the tactic. I have tried to keep as close as possible to the TT&F guide. My main problems are where to position passing, tempo and width.It seems that no matter where I position them, my ass.man. tells me that our long/short passing is being misplaced. It seems there is not any way that I can control it. My latest effort is to place all passing, both team and individual in the centre [10], "global" and see if that helps. Kind regards.

[crouchaldinho]

crouchaldinho, thanks for your assistance, as usual. I am playing a 4-5-1 system with a flat back four, one DMC, two CM's on the halfway line position, an AMR and L and a lone striker. Depending on how you view it my tactic can also be seen as 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1. It is the best way that I can fit my best players into their best positions.I was unsure what effect the MC bring used as an FCa would have on the balance of the tactic.

Sounds fine to me. You have one dedicated defensive midfielder, one supporting and one attacking, which seems pretty balanced to me. If that is your intention, of course? You could think about having the DMC dedicated to stay back and both MCs going forward often in more attacking systems and if you had suitable players, but that is just my personal opinion.

My main problems are where to position passing, tempo and width. It seems that no matter where I position them, my ass.man. tells me that our long/short passing is being misplaced. It seems there is not any way that I can control it. My latest effort is to place all passing, both team and individual in the centre [10], "global" and see if that helps.

I would tend to set things up in a logical way depending upon 1) how you want to play, e.g. mentality a big influence here and 2) the abilities of your players.

You can't always pay attention to your assistant in these things as it may not be tactical. A poorly motivated side with fail to keep possession. As will a poorly gelled one. So not always tactical. Furthermore, tactical consistency (and not changing the style all of the time) might help here.

Sincerely yours,

C.

[Finknottle]

Sounds fine to me. You have one dedicated defensive midfielder, one supporting and one attacking, which seems pretty balanced to me. If that is your intention, of course? You could think about having the DMC dedicated to stay back and both MCs going forward often in more attacking systems and if you had suitable players, but that is just my personal opinion.

I would tend to set things up in a logical way depending upon 1) how you want to play, e.g. mentality a big influence here and 2) the abilities of your players.

You can't always pay attention to your assistant in these things as it may not be tactical. A poorly motivated side with fail to keep possession. As will a poorly gelled one. So not always tactical. Furthermore, tactical consistency (and not changing the style all of the time) might help here.

Sincerely yours,

C.

I am using the TT&F RoO system. My quandaries are with the team tactical instructions on page 32, for the defensive strategy. The two problem areas are:

1. Passing pattern. Defend = direct, Support = mixed, Attack = short. I would value your guide as to where to position the passing. I have tried the following, defence is always first, 18, 10, 6. 15, 10, 5 and 13, 9 and 5.

2. Creative freedom. Defend = low, Support = normal, Attack = high. Again, I have tried positions similar to the passing but I always seem to get it wrong.

After your suggestions above, I am now wondering if I am paying too much attention to the ass. man. Am I better off setting up the passing and creative freedom similarly to the above and leaving it alone , even if I lose nearly all of my matches? My tactics are set as the TT&F guide clearly recommends, with regards to the individual player instructions. My only problems are getting No's 1 and 2 [above] set up correctly. Your always helpful views are gratefully received, as always. Kind regards.

[crouchaldinho]

1. Passing pattern. Defend = direct, Support = mixed, Attack = short. I would value your guide as to where to position the passing. I have tried the following, defence is always first, 18, 10, 6. 15, 10, 5 and 13, 9 and 5.

I wouldn't follow TT&F advice for passing too literally. It might be fine for top sides but I have generally found that my non-League team, for instance, need generally longer passing throughout. I would say that they could be progressively shorter as you go forward though, as TT&F suggests.

I'm not sure what the quality level of your team is so it is difficult to advise on precise settings.

One thing I would ask though is are you playing defensive week in, week out? That might be part of your problem tactically.

How are the opposition lining up against you? What do scout reports generally say?

2. Creative freedom. Defend = low, Support = normal, Attack = high. Again, I have tried positions similar to the passing but I always seem to get it wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't bother dividing up players like that for creative freedom. I would just put all of your defensive players on low, put the rest on normal (in the middle) and then pick 2 players to put on a high normal/low much setting and 1 star player to put on a high much setting. Also, vary levels depending upon the system you are playing, e.g. defensive, attacking etc. This is just a personal opinion though.

After your suggestions above, I am now wondering if I am paying too much attention to the ass. man. Am I better off setting up the passing and creative freedom similarly to the above and leaving it alone , even if I lose nearly all of my matches?

If you are losing all of your matches then that is clearly a big problem. I would suggest that perhaps you are approaching each match in the wrong way, i.e. possibly too defensively. Just a guess, of course.

I would take the liberty of pointing you towards my 'Simple 4-4-2' thread else. I'm not putting a link because I don't want to seem rude or offensive towards this TT&F thread (if you understand what I mean). It might, however, be of some small help in understanding where things are going wrong for you.

C.

[Finknottle]

Thanks again, crouchaldinho, I have just been struggling with the 4-5-1 tactic, as to what mentality to give the two CM's. However, I shall nip over to your thread and take a look. I was beginning to think in terms of a more simple to make tactic anyway. Now!! If I had a brain..... Kind regards.

[Zebedee77]

Has anyone got any input on the d-line setting for Control?

I've been playing with this a bit while waiting for 9.3 and would welcome some thoughts from you and others who are using the TT&F.

I use a Benitez 5x5 mentality system and hook my d-line to the MCd in a 4-4-2. From my understanding of the TT&F, I'd have thought hooking it to the mentality of the MCa would be the correct move but it would seem that the line is too high (at least for the quality of my defenders at league 2 Bury!) when done this way with that specific mentality system (perhaps the issue is with the mentality system itself and how you want to play and how skilled your players are - Sacchi's Milan would probably hook it to the MCa without a problem (25m considered the maximum distance between last defender and most forward player), Benitez' Liverpool on a bad day would be hanging it on one of the DMCs (hence certain players meeting the defence to pick up the ball in midfield)?). Hooking it to the mentality also pushes the line up and pulls it down as the mentality of the team changes.

Control tactics as set out in TT&F have two main purposes as you said in an earlier post, so a more defensive one would call for less of a mentality shift forward (and thus the d-line doesn't move much beyond standard variants of a tactic) and the more offensive one would be closer to the attack variant. You could probably refine this infinitely to tailor it to specific opponents though to combat their specific threats.

[crouchaldinho]

I use a Benitez 5x5 mentality system and hook my d-line to the MCd in a 4-4-2. From my understanding of the TT&F, I'd have thought hooking it to the mentality of the MCa would be the correct move but it would seem that the line is too high (at least for the quality of my defenders at league 2 Bury!) when done this way with that specific mentality system (perhaps the issue is with the mentality system itself and how you want to play and how skilled your players are - Sacchi's Milan would probably hook it to the MCa without a problem (25m considered the maximum distance between last defender and most forward player), Benitez' Liverpool on a bad day would be hanging it on one of the DMCs (hence certain players meeting the defence to pick up the ball in midfield)?). Hooking it to the mentality also pushes the line up and pulls it down as the mentality of the team changes.

I use 5x5 too. I place d-line at the midpoint between the defensive unit and the attacking unit, which seems to do the job. It must be set at a point so that the defence and midfield are not operating on separate agendas and thus linked to mentality. Where you are setting it might be deemed a little more cautious, but as you say, that is probably best for your side at present.

Control tactics as set out in TT&F have two main purposes as you said in an earlier post, so a more defensive one would call for less of a mentality shift forward (and thus the d-line doesn't move much beyond standard variants of a tactic) and the more offensive one would be closer to the attack variant. You could probably refine this infinitely to tailor it to specific opponents though to combat their specific threats.

Absolutely. I have experimented with this and the best value seems to be the 'standard' setting. Against the right opposition, I create many more chances thanks to the space. I've only had a few opportunities to use it though as my side aren't among the elite in my division.

C.

[JacketB]

Hi, im just starting a Milan game so I have decided to create a 4-3-1-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 formation with a 2-6-2 Framework and i was wondering if anyone has created a successful deep-lying play maker? I want to play Pirlo in this role, and I am curious whether to have his settings more like those of the 'support' player and have one of the other midfielders (Gattuso) with the 'defend' settings although he will be higher up the pitch, or in a more right sided position? Thanks for any feedback

[heathxxx]

I've a question regarding "Specialist Position Theories".

As an advocate of building teams around tactics, rather than the reverse, it's highly likely that I will employ multiple specialist positions within my systems.

Throughout the previous releases, this has worked very effectively for me, though the key has always been to have, as near as possible, the perfect player for each role.

Within FM09, though so far I've not seen any big tactical changes implemented thus far, is it still feasable to do this effectively, or can this approach lead to a disjointed team?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated

[deggesim]

Hi, im just starting a Milan game so I have decided to create a 4-3-1-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 formation with a 2-6-2 Framework and i was wondering if anyone has created a successful deep-lying play maker? I want to play Pirlo in this role, and I am curious whether to have his settings more like those of the 'support' player and have one of the other midfielders (Gattuso) with the 'defend' settings although he will be higher up the pitch, or in a more right sided position? Thanks for any feedback

I'd play with Gattuso and Pirlo on the same line.

Otherwise, if you want to keep Pirlo behind, I'd give Gattuso fullcourt pressing (18/20).

[Colorado]

Guy's I've read the guide a few times through and it's an excellent resource and really does add more to the game.

However, does anyone else find the recommended mentality structure a little to rigid and restrictive on building tatics? Basically, the general idea is to have no more than a difference of EIGHT notches for the most defensive to the most offensive mentallity.

I find that every time I tweak a tatic of forward run I need to compensate it buy adjusting my mentailities which the assistant manager is so keen to remind me.

Please can anyone help me here, am I really asking for trouble if I ignore this recommendation?

[crouchaldinho]

I find that every time I tweak a tatic of forward run I need to compensate it buy adjusting my mentailities which the assistant manager is so keen to remind me.

Colorado - not sure I follow you here. What do you mean exactly?

[heathxxx]

Guy's I've read the guide a few times through and it's an excellent resource and really does add more to the game.

However, does anyone else find the recommended mentality structure a little to rigid and restrictive on building tatics? Basically, the general idea is to have no more than a difference of EIGHT notches for the most defensive to the most offensive mentallity.

I find that every time I tweak a tatic of forward run I need to compensate it buy adjusting my mentailities which the assistant manager is so keen to remind me.

Please can anyone help me here, am I really asking for trouble if I ignore this recommendation?

Colorado - not sure I follow you here. What do you mean exactly?

Throughout the series, since the introduction of sliders, broadly speaking, they've been linked.

For example, I like to tweek my wingers a little more than the base guidelines here. That's what's important to remember. This is a guide, a platform if you will, from which you can develop your own system. I like my wingers set to forward runs "often". In tandem with this instruction, I may then tweek creative freedom and mentality up by an additional notch or two.

On the other hand though, it could be said that going to extremes with the sliders can have a negative effect by leaving players isolated or out of touch with the rest of the teams or individual player settings.

[moj]

Guy's I've read the guide a few times through and it's an excellent resource and really does add more to the game.

However, does anyone else find the recommended mentality structure a little to rigid and restrictive on building tatics? Basically, the general idea is to have no more than a difference of EIGHT notches for the most defensive to the most offensive mentallity.

I find that every time I tweak a tatic of forward run I need to compensate it buy adjusting my mentailities which the assistant manager is so keen to remind me.

Please can anyone help me here, am I really asking for trouble if I ignore this recommendation?

Understand that TT&F is all opinion, there is no fact inprinted, just opinion that has been well researched by people who know their stuff (WWfan, Millie, etc), that's not to say you can produce a tactic that defies the structures that this guide suggests.

There is no ultimate tactic for this game, even the poorest tactics can work wonders for certain people, so basically no tactic is perfect, meaning you can be as non-restrictive and free as you like in your tactics.

[uppercut]

always close down the goalkeeper of the opposing down, this way he cannot make those really annoying long kicks and he has no space. can also result in a cheap goal for you.

its a shame you cant save OI, having to change the keeper close down every match is annoying!

[heathxxx]

its a shame you cant save OI, having to change the keeper close down every match is annoying!

Something I could never understand...

In FM08, in one save, my OI's were "stored" after a couple of games, so I only needed to change them in minor ways to suit different formations. This worked for the whole save and I've no idea how it came to happen, but it save a lot of time faffing about with the OI's, especially as I tended to use the same "core" OI's (weaker foot, closing down) all the time. In other saves, I would have to do them individually each and every game and it wouldn't store them.

Don't know yet if that's what it's like in FM09, but so far, I have to set them manually each game... Anyone know a way to get the game to "store" these OI's ??

Off topic in one way I know, but in another, possibly not.

[crouchaldinho]

Something I could never understand...

In FM08, in one save, my OI's were "stored" after a couple of games, so I only needed to change them in minor ways to suit different formations. This worked for the whole save and I've no idea how it came to happen, but it save a lot of time faffing about with the OI's, especially as I tended to use the same "core" OI's (weaker foot, closing down) all the time. In other saves, I would have to do them individually each and every game and it wouldn't store them.

Don't know yet if that's what it's like in FM09, but so far, I have to set them manually each game... Anyone know a way to get the game to "store" these OI's ??

Off topic in one way I know, but in another, possibly not.

This is, at best, a guess, but can't you set your OIs and then go to the tactics screen and save your tactic?

I'm sure this worked on FM08. I seem to remember doing it by accident and then having the same OIs coming up in my next match.

Maybe give this a try?

C.

[heathxxx]

I thought about that once with FM08, but it didn't always work. I'll give it a go with FM09 though and see if it works this time.

[Blaupunkt]

edited. i miss read

[Stemlfc65]

I'm sorry but what does;

Defensive: FCd (x + 5); FCa (x + 8)

Standard: FCd (x + 3); FCa (x + 7)

Attacking: FCd (x + 1); FCa (x + 6)

this mean?

I can't get my head round it. It's probably something really simple too.

Please kick me when you tell me

[crouchaldinho]

I'm sorry but what does;

Defensive: FCd (x + 5); FCa (x + 8)

Standard: FCd (x + 3); FCa (x + 7)

Attacking: FCd (x + 1); FCa (x + 6)

this mean?

I can't get my head round it. It's probably something really simple too.

Please kick me when you tell me

x represents the mentality of your defenders, if I remember correctly, so x + 5 would be the suggested mentality of your FCd in the first example (i.e. your defender mentality plus 5). For instance, if your defender is set on mentality 3, then your FCd in the first example would be set on 3+5=8.

Hope that makes sense.

KICK.

[Stemlfc65]

x represents the mentality of your defenders, if I remember correctly, so x + 5 would be the suggested mentality of your FCd in the first example (i.e. your defender mentality plus 5). For instance, if your defender is set on mentality 3, then your FCd in the first example would be set on 3+5=8.

Hope that makes sense.

KICK.

Thanks but what does it mean by plus (insert number)?

How many notches I should move the slider up?

[Zebedee77]

Thanks but what does it mean by plus (insert number)?

How many notches I should move the slider up?

If x is the mentality of your central defender, let's say it is a mentality of 13 clicks from the left in a standard variation of global mentality. So the mentality of your deeplying forward would be x(13) + 3 (13+3) = mentality of 16. Your more advanced forward would be x(13) + 7 (13+7) = mentality of 20.

So from the left it would be 16 clicks for one striker and 20 clicks (or right at the far end) for the other.

Does that clear things up a little more Stemlfc65?

[simonbyrneno.4]

Hey guys i've got a bit of an question for everyone. I'm using a tactic that i've developed and i'm trying to figure out something. I've got my two strikers with a mentality of 14 and its working extremely well but..........

and here's my problem,

I'm trying to get my AMR to be the player that breaks in beyond the oppositions defense. What mentality should i be giving him? I've been try him on 20 (gap of 6) but its having mixed results, is the 20 setting too high and is he getting isolated? Would a setting of maybe 15-18 be better?

BTW...

My AMR is Ronaldo, if anyone has any tips on how to get him to perform better (ie. score more) i'd welcome that help. I'm thinking that maybe that the mentality issue is whats holding him back.

[Colorado]

Obviously forward runs set to often and crossing rarely?

This would prevent him going to the byline with ball. Does he 'cut in' enough?

[Colorado]

Understand that TT&F is all opinion, there is no fact inprinted, just opinion that has been well researched by people who know their stuff (WWfan, Millie, etc), that's not to say you can produce a tactic that defies the structures that this guide suggests.

There is no ultimate tactic for this game, even the poorest tactics can work wonders for certain people, so basically no tactic is perfect, meaning you can be as non-restrictive and free as you like in your tactics.

Cheers for responses to my orginal post about the mentaility difference being greater than eight.

Obviously, I want to try and follow it as it is recommeneded by the guys who compiled the guide but as I said I find it too restrictive sometimes, having to compensate every little tweak I make.

I'm about to try and put a Brazilian tactic together with two very offensive minded full backs, two holding midfielders and two advanced attacking midfielders playing behind two strikers. I'm concerned about the mentality issue for the full backs though being great than recommended.

I will just have to ignore it but out of interest what do you lot generally follow the 'eight rule' or not? I'll like to know! Thanks!

[heathxxx]

Just wanted to share how I'm doing with Altrincham in the BSP.

I've always favoured an attacking approach to tactic building, but having read through things here, as I do every year, I've begun to experiment a little bit more with FM09.

Although I've always leaned towards the "Rule of One" (or the Martin O'Neill approach) as a platform, my approach has always then leant heavily towards the "Bands of Two" (or the Sir Alex Ferguson) approach.

This time, rather than starting with my beloved Man Utd and working downwards to smaller clubs in different saves, I'm starting at the bottom and working my way up. So far it's been clear that the "Bands of Two" perhaps a bit too much for my lowly BSP players to work with, yet the "Rule of One" is perhaps a little too conservative for my tastes, albeit defensively superb, I felt my team could and should score more.

What I've done is just experimented a little to get the balance right. Working from the base "Rule of One" settings, I've also merged in the "Bands of Two". Basically, my back-four, my MC(d) and MC(a) are set to the base "Rule of One" guidelines as suggested here, but I've upped their mentalities (and linked settings) to the maximum suggested. My AMC, AML, AMR and ST are all based around the "Bands of Two" and set to highish direct passing. At the level I'm playing though with lesser quality players, I'm only using one "free-role" (my AMC) and I'm a little more conservative with creative freedom (than I would be managing Man Utd ).

Overall, the merged approach is working very well for me. Defensively very solid, but now also more potent going forward.

The basics of tactics in FM09 are the same as ever, even with the changes to things like the arrows, so I'm hoping that once again, I'll be able to post some more tactics to the forums - once I've thoroughly tested them of course

[simonbyrneno.4]

Just wanted to share how I'm doing with Altrincham in the BSP.

I've always favoured an attacking approach to tactic building, but having read through things here, as I do every year, I've begun to experiment a little bit more with FM09.

Although I've always leaned towards the "Rule of One" (or the Martin O'Neill approach) as a platform, my approach has always then leant heavily towards the "Bands of Two" (or the Sir Alex Ferguson) approach.

This time, rather than starting with my beloved Man Utd and working downwards to smaller clubs in different saves, I'm starting at the bottom and working my way up. So far it's been clear that the "Bands of Two" perhaps a bit too much for my lowly BSP players to work with, yet the "Rule of One" is perhaps a little too conservative for my tastes, albeit defensively superb, I felt my team could and should score more.

What I've done is just experimented a little to get the balance right. Working from the base "Rule of One" settings, I've also merged in the "Bands of Two". Basically, my back-four, my MC(d) and MC(a) are set to the base "Rule of One" guidelines as suggested here, but I've upped their mentalities (and linked settings) to the maximum suggested. My AMC, AML, AMR and ST are all based around the "Bands of Two" and set to highish direct passing. At the level I'm playing though with lesser quality players, I'm only using one "free-role" (my AMC) and I'm a little more conservative with creative freedom (than I would be managing Man Utd ).

Overall, the merged approach is working very well for me. Defensively very solid, but now also more potent going forward.

The basics of tactics in FM09 are the same as ever, even with the changes to things like the arrows, so I'm hoping that once again, I'll be able to post some more tactics to the forums - once I've thoroughly tested them of course

Heath- it's great to see you back, you 4-1-3-1-1 formation in Fm08 is my favourite FM formation ever and its great to hear that you are developing a new tactic for 09. Look forward to giving it a whirl!!!!!!!!!

[RossoneriGunner]

Just want to say a big THANK YOU to all who spent their time putting together TT&F '09, it is brilliant a great insight. Before I downloaded it and printed it out I was like a lot of other people...use pre-made formations/tactics. Now I have faith in what I am doing with my tactics. Thanks again guys, much appreciated.

[PrinceEgypt]

Hey Guys,

Ok, so i have had a looong read through the TTF '09 set and there are a few sentences i cannot understand...So i was wondering if you would be so kind to help.

Page 21: Passing Patterns

"...make sure each player has plenty of passing options when he is in possession"....

"At a bare minimum, a player should always be able to look up and see two easy passing options. Ideally there will be three"

"A common error is to allow a player no obvious forward passing options at all"

Does this mean setting the players to 'mixed' passing - If not, can someone elaborate on how to set a player to have "plenty of passing options" and to "see two/three easy passing options". - And how would someone not allow a player no obvious forward passing option? - I assume whatever tactic you play, all passes will generally be going forward anyway...?

"Make sure that each defensive player can look up and hit a lateral ball, forward ball and a diagonal ball without too much difficulty.....he needs to have lateral, diagonal and backwards options

I'm not quiet sure how we would make a player do all these types of passes...Can i have a little bit of explanation on that too please.

Page 23: Defensive Line - Relation to Mentality System

"The most important setting for the defensive line relates to the mentality system. The back line must be in contact with its midfield at all times".

Does this mean setting short passes to midfield? - I read that if playing an aggressive tactic, you should not play short passes to your midfield - It should be more Direct...So how would you be in contact with your midfield as a defender if you are playing Direct/Long passes? - Someone help?

Page 27: Passing Assumptions

"Because of the narrower width, players should be close enough together to have passing options."

Ok i do understand this - but how would you implement it? Does this mean playing simple 4-4-2 formations? Having a solid defence/midfield? Avoiding tactics where the only midfielders are the 2 wingers, 1 DMC and 1 AMC?

Page 28: Width Assumptions

"...a team's defensive width will naturally be narrower than the attacking one"

Again, i'm a bit confused...lol - A team's defensive width? I know what the width means playing attacking i.e. using th wingers, exploiting the flanks etc.. but can someone explain please what "defensive width" means? (man, i feel so stupid!)

Page 31: The Attacking Match Strategy

"....fast tempo, direct, attacking orientated passing"

I thought that the theory used earlier in this manual was that Attacking match strategies should use a short passing game to Attack - and more direct when using defensive tactics? - Maybe im wrong...Can someone help?

And finally....Page 46: OI Instructions - Relation to width/pitch size

"As discussed earlier, a narrow width setting is the most suitable option for a wide pitch"

For a wide pitch/large pitch - isn't it better to use the flanks and play wide? If playing narrow on a wide pitch - surely your full backs will get slaughtered by the opposition wingers? Also, I remember reading earlier also that a wide pitch is suitable for using the width of the field as the space is there for your wingers to exploit - too narrow and your wingers will not really have an effect on the game. Someone help?

[Wayne\'o]

i need help.

i thought i got the hang of tactics but i have to keep reading the T&T file over and over and im not getting any where, the reason why is because no changes actually help what im trying to do..

the only thin gi can get to work is an offensive tactic and thats it, i cant see how high tempo or defensive help..

it's either all my pressin gthem or them pressing me, i try using defensive tactics but i end up losing..

where to start to even sort this mess out??

[ianmforbes]

Thanks for the wonderful document, it really is a marvelous piece of work.

I have a question, I tried to ask in the tactics forum, but didn't get much of a response, but everyone here knows the TT&F inside out.

I'm using Chelsea in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

I've got Aguerro in the key AMC position, and I have given him advanced playmaker instructions (attacking = RWB-often, TB-often, the rest mixed), though I'd like to give him FWR-mixed as it makes him available for the pass (I also use free role). He also has the highest mentality as per the 4-5-1 TT&F framework.

The question is: I don't know quite what to do with the ST. It makes sense to use him as a FCd as he will hold up play and not take on the defence by himself, but with he and the AMC making mixed forward runs, it feels like no one is attacking the box in the middle of the pitch. So, I go back and forth between the AMC making FWR mixed and often, they both have their advantages.

What would you suggest? If the AMC is acting like and FCd, should the ST act as an FCa? But doesn't this remove him from the play too much?

Any ideas, I'm sure this is quite a popular formation, anyone got the right balance in the middle of the park?

[BARNESDON]

anyone noticed at big changes to there success ,or lack of, with the new 9.3.0 patch

[PrinceEgypt]

Even though there is a seperate theroem and framework for FM2008, can you use these theorems for FM2008 also?

[wwfan]

They are 100% backward compatible and will work like a charm for 9.3 as well.

[PrinceEgypt]

They are 100% backward compatible and will work like a charm for 9.3 as well.

Thats great...thanks wwfan. - I would however like to kindly ask that if they are compatible, why do you release a new one for each FM edition? ....not that i am complaining ofcourse! lol

[tomescan]

TTF '09

"It will be extremely counter-productive to ask players to regularly do things of which they are not capable."

WWfan: I think this is one of the most pertinent points made in your document yet not fully understood by us all.

Just a quick question regarding the default instructions for a midfield right in an attacking role in an attacking strategy and how I should adjust them for my Stoke team, specifically for Liam Lawrence.

The default instructions you give are:

CF: 15

Passing: direct

FWR: Often

Cross From: Byline

RWB: Often

Cross Ball: Often

TTB: Mixed

Long Shots: Mixed

Can I ask you for your advice regarding how to adjust these settings for Liam Lawrence as an example:

Should I still give him cross ball often with crossing 15?

Should I give him high creativity and free role despite having decisions 13?

Should I ask him to run with ball often depsite having a dribbling stat of 13?

How would you instructions differ if you were using Tom Soares?

If I do change them, how much of a change should I make? Would this take away from my attacking edge, if I do change his instructions though?

Regards, tomescan.

[Uncle_Sam]

Thats great...thanks wwfan. - I would however like to kindly ask that if they are compatible, why do you release a new one for each FM edition? ....not that i am complaining ofcourse! lol

I am not trying to speak for anyone, but if you have been subscribing to the TT&F since it's inception you would see that it has always been evolving and improving.

[crouchaldinho]

Does anyone know if FM Britain are planning to release another 'Communication and Psychological "Warfare"' guide?

That's one aspect of the game I could really do with studying!

C.

[tomescan]

Does anyone know if FM Britain are planning to release another 'Communication and Psychological "Warfare"' guide?

That's one aspect of the game I could really do with studying!

C.

Has an one else noticed things have got a lot quieter on the discussion boards over there on fm-britian with this release than previous installments of the game? Or is it my imagination? Really like their bite-sized bible topics, great reads.

[crouchaldinho]

Has an one else noticed things have got a lot quieter on the discussion boards over there on fm-britian with this release than previous installments of the game? Or is it my imagination? Really like their bite-sized bible topics, great reads.

Yes, I noticed that too.

I always enjoy having a read over there. There is always something to inspire or interest me in some way.

I'd be particularly interested to read the latest installment of C&PW (if there is to be one), especially regarding press conferences, as I really haven't managed to make them work to my advantage yet. When I have tried experimenting, it has usually backfired completely.

Team-talks seem to have changed slightly in this new incarnation as well. 'You can win' used to be the automatic choice for most games as a favourite. I now find that my team are often 'demotivated' when using this talk.

C.

[wwfan]

Has an one else noticed things have got a lot quieter on the discussion boards over there on fm-britian with this release than previous installments of the game? Or is it my imagination? Really like their bite-sized bible topics, great reads.

We're a bit quiet because of other ongoing projects, which will eventually see the light of day. To promise anything specific for the remainder of FM09 would be foolhardy. TT&F'09 was a bit of a high point in terms of community saturation and we need time to work out where we can go from here. However, there is a lot of work, arguably more than ever, going on behind the scenes, although most of it is very experimental. With respect to that, we'll continue as a forum for the time being and see where we are at in the autumn.

Millie was promising to rejig C&PW though. I think it is still in process.

[crouchaldinho]

We're a bit quiet because of other ongoing projects, which will eventually see the light of day. To promise anything specific for the remainder of FM09 would be foolhardy. TT&F'09 was a bit of a high point in terms of community saturation and we need time to work out where we can go from here. However, there is a lot of work, arguably more than ever, going on behind the scenes, although most of it is very experimental. With respect to that, we'll continue as a forum for the time being and see where we are at in the autumn.

TT&F is an amazing achievement and I can understand that you guys maybe need some time to recover!

Millie was promising to rejig C&PW though. I think it is still in process.

This is excellent news. There seem to have been some minor changes in terms of team talks and there is the whole press conference business, which I doubt many FMers have got the hang of yet.

I've personally been trying to keep notes on player reactions and feedback as the course of my save game goes on and I have improved but I do look forward to a new C&PW for some good solid advice.

C.

[tomescan]

We're a bit quiet because of other ongoing projects, which will eventually see the light of day. To promise anything specific for the remainder of FM09 would be foolhardy. TT&F'09 was a bit of a high point in terms of community saturation and we need time to work out where we can go from here. However, there is a lot of work, arguably more than ever, going on behind the scenes, although most of it is very experimental. With respect to that, we'll continue as a forum for the time being and see where we are at in the autumn.

Millie was promising to rejig C&PW though. I think it is still in process.

TT&F'09 does seem like the fruit of a lot of work that went on in fm-britain especially the tactical bible and is it clear to see why it was officially endorsed. I just find it a bit depressing, not that there haven't been more articles, but that there has been so little activity on the discussion forums on the website like before. I really like the website, especially its organisation and appearance. It seems as if there are less people around this time out, even on the forums. Maybe age has caught up with a few of us!

[heathxxx]

Heath- it's great to see you back, you 4-1-3-1-1 formation in Fm08 is my favourite FM formation ever and its great to hear that you are developing a new tactic for 09. Look forward to giving it a whirl!!!!!!!!!

Hi simonbyrneno and thanks. Happy that you liked one of my previous uploads.

It's still early days on the tactic I'm working with, but things are going very well so far on my Altrincham BSP save. I'm working with a system that I used later on with FM08 but didn't post. It was something that could be used at pretty much any level and very successfully. I must point out though, that throughout most of the recent releases, I've leaned strongly towards building squads around my tactics, rather than tactics around my squads. With that in mind, anything I upload may not guarentee instant success that so many look for.

At the moment, I'm with Altrincham in the BSP. The first 18 competitive fixtures of the season, my side have won every game, scored 46 goals, conceded 6 (15 clean sheets). I must point out though that I spent several hours at the start of the game scouring the planet for players that would suit my system and would actually come to the club on a free transfer. When I get around to posting the tactics, I'll include a screenshot of the squad.

What's impressed me the most is how strong the defence have been. I can only put this down to how I've merged the two "approaches" to tactics. As I said in the previous post, I've tried to merge the "Rule of One (RoO) or Martin O'neill" approach with the "Bands of Two (Bo2) or Alex Ferguson" approach. It's the defensive part of my team that uses the RoO mentality system, with part of the support and all the attack area of my team adopting the Bo2 approach. I also focus a lot on the opposition instructions by marking opposing front players tightly and closing all support players down "often". It's worthy of note that I'll always look out for slow, low composure and bravery defenders and put pressure on them by closing them down often too.

The main aspect I'm finding with my approach is something that ties in well with my own personal philosophy that "the best form of defence is attack". My team keeps possession well and plays mostly in the middle of the park, or in the opponents half, thus restricting their opportunity to get the ball and create chances themselves, whilst my team is always a threat. I'm not particulatly one for using multiple tactics sets like Attack, Control or Defend. I prefer to have one tactic which is easy enough to make any minor changes to during a game, such as to the tempo my team plays.

It seems interesting though that with the 3d match engine, I find I'm paying more attention to detail because I can now "see" the outcome of my changes more easily. I could read the 2d engine quite well I felt, but 3d has been a big help.

I will try to post a new thread next weekend with all the usual detailed information about the system, my results, plus and minus points people may discover. In the meantime however, for those that can't wait, here's a link for the .tac file I'm using at the moment.

http://hosted.filefront.com/heathxxx - (my FileFront profile page). It's the only download there at the moment. I took all the FM08 stuff down.

I'm not going to discuss or support this tactic in this thread though, so look out for the new thread in the main forum over the coming week.

What I will say though to anyone, is download the crib sheet on the first page of this thread. I don't use it myself as I know my own systems, but others my find it useful to cross-reference settings I've used and make any changes they feel they need.

[heathxxx]

I am not trying to speak for anyone, but if you have been subscribing to the TT&F since it's inception you would see that it has always been evolving and improving.

Very true Uncle_Sam. It's the first place I look whenever I buy a new copy of FM.

The "core" information is very similar, but the work everyone puts in to update this information and the fresher ideas incorporated every time make it essential reading IMO.

[vasilli07]

Can anyone tell me if my set-up for Milan is ok? It's a x'mas tree formation.

DR - Zambrotta - attack

DL - Jankulovski - attack

DC - Maldini - defend

DC - Bonera - defend

LCM - Gattuso - defend

DM - Pirlo - support

RCM - Beckham - support

AM - Kaka - attack

AM - Ronaldinho - support

FC - Pato - support

[Finknottle]

Hello, crouchaldinho. Sorry I've not kept you updated. I have been a little unwell, at my age it is allowed! I have just realised that the new patch has arrived. This means a new game.

I am thinking of trying to use the in game 4-3-3 tactical sets using TT&F and your simplicity style of making the tactics up. Of all the TT&F mentality systems would you say that there is one which lends itself to my formations or are they all of a muchness?

If I were to adopt a 4-4-2 system, it would mean either leaving out, or playing out of position, my better Hull City players. Kind regards.

[crouchaldinho]

Hello, crouchaldinho. Sorry I've not kept you updated. I have been a little unwell, at my age it is allowed! I have just realised that the new patch has arrived. This means a new game.

Sorry to hear you have been unwell Oescus - I hope you are feeling better now.

Remember that you don't have to start a new game when using the new patch. I have continued to play the same game as I was playing prior to 9.3 being released. However, if you want the latest data, starting again is the only way.

I am thinking of trying to use the in game 4-3-3 tactical sets using TT&F and your simplicity style of making the tactics up. Of all the TT&F mentality systems would you say that there is one which lends itself to my formations or are they all of a muchness?

I must be honest, I'm not so hot at creating single striker formations on FM09. I think this is probably because I haven't had the right kind of striker or perhaps it is because I haven't managed to get my midfielders to support him enough.

Anyway, TT&F suggests that the real difference between the mentality systems is in the style of play that they produce. You will see that in the opening post where each mentality system is listed, moving from 'authoritarian' to 'libertarian'.

Personally, I prefer the '5x5' Benitez theory as I find it simple and effective. It separates the outfield 10 into a defensive unit and an attacking unit. I like that idea and it works well as a concept for me. Plus you can set it up really quickly.

Let me know how you get on. Best of luck.

Sincerely yours,

C.