Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[ShirazS]

Reduce forward runs in the midfield is just about the only answer for that!

I can imagine all of your midfielders vacating the central positions during attacks and leaving you just a tiny bit open to the counter.

C.

Yeah, that does happen however having both MC's set FWD often gives my strikers much more service and gives the opposition more players to mark in the box which I do not want to sacrifice

Nothing else that can be done?

[SJ234]

I need help. My team just can't defend crosses or through balls or set pieces, how do I solve this?

[Deltaroad]

I need help. My team just can't defend crosses or through balls or set pieces, how do I solve this?

To defend crosses you need good jumpers and headers. Through balls good anticipation.

[boomheadshot45]

I can't get my strikers to work together. I have Zlatan/Raul as my FCd, the more creative one, and Love/Huntelaar as my FCa, good finisher and waiting for the through ball to slot the ball into the net. I have my FCd on forward runs rarely, run with ball often, through balls often, and hold up ball. For my FCa, I have everything on mixed but forward runs often. And the mentality for my FCd is 9, while the mentality for my FCa is 14.

[wwfan]

I can't get my strikers to work together. I have Zlatan/Raul as my FCd, the more creative one, and Love/Huntelaar as my FCa, good finisher and waiting for the through ball to slot the ball into the net. I have my FCd on forward runs rarely, run with ball often, through balls often, and hold up ball. For my FCa, I have everything on mixed but forward runs often. And the mentality for my FCd is 9, while the mentality for my FCa is 14.

Try to switch FWRs around, so the FCd has them mixed/often and the FCa none. Should help a fair bit.

NB: I know the OP doesn't say that, but I now think it is a better attacking solution.

[boomheadshot45]

Thank you so much wwfan. My strikers can now actually get some good delivery to them! Right when I adjusted the forward runs, my FCd got a hat trick (Raul).

[Garzatron]

A question, if I don't put any targetman in the box but I ticked 'run onto ball' in the targetman settings, does it actually do anything?

Wondering the answer to this myself. I have done this and my team seemed to melt down.

If you have a target man set and delivery set to him, but dont click the actuall ticker to use one, does the team still follow those instructions?

[NickToye]

I have been away from this game for a while, had too much work to do and it seems most of the info I gathered has been lost.

If I am building a tactic based on Band of 2. Where do I put my sliders in the team settings? I have the individuals, just not sure about the team settings, also is there a definitive number of notches that I should slide up/down depending on an Attacking/Defensive formation?

Sorry if this is old ground, but I am having a blank moment.

[Pipson]

One question i gotta ask, does defensive line affect the chance of Mcs making nice though balls to the foward?

For instance in FML i usually my d-line is set to push up thus majority of the time my foward is roaming about just outside the big box thus probably not having enough space to run to so this cancels out the chance of Mcs making nice though balls that the foward can meet, so would playing a bit deeper increase the chance of ur Mcs making better passes for a fast foward to meet?

[CPS]

One question i gotta ask, does defensive line affect the chance of Mcs making nice though balls to the foward?

For instance in FML i usually my d-line is set to push up thus majority of the time my foward is roaming about just outside the big box thus probably not having enough space to run to so this cancels out the chance of Mcs making nice though balls that the foward can meet, so would playing a bit deeper increase the chance of ur Mcs making better passes for a fast foward to meet?

Yes, if you drop your d-line back it will invite the opposition to push forward and leave space in behind. To utilise the tactic you should have a fast striker who can run onto direct deliveries - target man with the run onto ball setting. Its a useful counter attacking tactic if you are defending a lead in the last half hour and the AI starts pushing men forward.

[saemus]

In lone striker formations, does the lone striker have to be a FCd for it to be effective? I am playing a lone striker formation, and my best striker is Goran Pandev, who is better suited as a FCa. Is there an effective FCa lone striker formation?

[kerlonmoura]

Excellent guide, I've made a set based on the Libero defence and it's working well, thanks. One slight problem though, it relates to away games against opposition stronger than myself. Going with your theories, I start with the Defensive variant and I get plastered. 40% possession, no shots whilst the opposition run me ragged, I'm usually 2-0 down at Half-Time. I tell my team I'm disappointed, switch to the Standard tactic and produce a superb fightback to snatch a point. A point is a good result, don't get me wrong, I'm just dismayed to how my team can play so poorly with the Defensive tactic. I re-loaded the file and replayed the match, this time I selected standard from the start. Exactly the same happened, with the result finishing 2-2.

Is there anything I can do to stop my team being slaughtered in the first 20 mins? I tried setting a more defensive tactic, but I just seem to surrender possession easily. However, I still feel the problem is tactical opose to a problem with my team-talks.

Has anyone had a similar problem?

You shouldn't get too defensive, if you get too defensive you will give more chances to the opposition.

[ShirazS]

Ok, I have been having trouble with Rooney as his form has been very up and down. So I want to know what difference will it make to the amount of goals I usually score if I tried playing him as an AMC with FWR often and RWB often behind a lone striker rather than my usual 4-4-2 with 2 strikers?

[freddo21]

Playing 4-4-2 with shortish strikers, is it better to set the wingers to cross from deep?

[TigerJoe]

Encourage the wingers to cross the ball rarely so your strikers recieve more balls too there feet.

[SJ234]

In a 4-1-2-1 with wingers should i give my amc mixed fwd runs or often?

[Adrian]

In a 4-1-2-1 with wingers should i give my amc mixed fwd runs or often?

U already have 2 strikers upfront

So the best option is mixed FwR

[SJ234]

and the dmc?

[aderow]

In a 4-4-2 what instructions should give my wingers to have them going towards goal and getting shots of instead of just staying on the wing and sending in crosses?

I ask this because i have wingers who can score as well as me forwards.....

[c0de]

can somebody please update all the links on the first page because they're dead

[SJ234]

Going back to a 4-4-2 with bands of two but my defence is a shambles and my attack can't create chances, should I therefore follow the excell or is it better to wait around and see if this tactic works but I am in a do or die situation so help me fast, thanks:)

[Death.]

RE Opposition Instructions

Could anyone please give some advice on how to deal with different types of strikers individually? What combinations of tight marking/closing down/show onto foot/tackling would people advise? For, say:

Strong forwards

Quick forwards

Tall forwards

Technical forwards

Complete forwards

etc.

Thankyou.

[kudzilla]

i have downloaded this thing and on my save its given me lots n lots of formations to choose, i play 442 with arsenal. are the formations ready to jus use straight away or are they jus like guides to help you make ur own formation?

[Jo_Myers]

cant download 2nd link.

[Jo_Myers]

cant download 2nd link.

[st.cronin]

For the Libero defence, I have found that a much smaller mentality gap works much better (normally a gap of 2-3, not 5), at least on 08. My standard mentality settings:

11 GK

7 DL/R

6 DC

8 DCa

9 MCd

10 MC

12 ML/R

11 FCd

15 FCa

The DCs settings get adjusted for opposition, but mostly they play zone/tight, the DC/a has higher closing down, shorter passing, and occasionally harder tackling. This is mainly used on LLM squads, and as long as I've got the right players for it, it works a charm. Its actually usually more DEFENSIVELY solid than offensively inspired (probably because I mainly use pure defensive fullbacks whenever I can, favoring a solid back line).

[seph5632]

Just need a bit of help. I have created the defensive, standard and attacking tactics using the 2-6-2 set-up and I was just wondering what is the best option for the defensive line on all the above. Also reading through the pages I am not exactly sure what I need to do to create a control tactic. Does anybody have any advice or a thing similar to the excel spreadsheet for the control tactic.

Thanks.

[Algarve]

I've been reading this and sounds very usefull. I'm using it myself now. Congratulations for a well elaborated guide.

I'm trying to use a 4-3-3 (with 2 wingers, not 3 FCs) with the role theory, but not sure who should be the support and the attackers.

Would you set the MCs as attackers and the fullbacks as support? What about the fullbacks? Maybe they would be attackers while the MCs are support (or at least one of the MCs).

Any suggestions are welcome.

[footynut]

I've been reading this and sounds very usefull. I'm using it myself now. Congratulations for a well elaborated guide.

I'm trying to use a 4-3-3 (with 2 wingers, not 3 FCs) with the role theory, but not sure who should be the support and the attackers.

Would you set the MCs as attackers and the fullbacks as support? What about the fullbacks? Maybe they would be attackers while the MCs are support (or at least one of the MCs).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Study the players attributes and then set their instructions up in relation to them. For example, if you have an attacking full back who's good at dribbling, crossing etc then let him make forward runs, cross from byline etc.

This is the best way in my opinion to get the best from your team. Nothing should be set in concrete and be prepared to make changes to counter the opposition.

[Sound]

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I think I have zipped it.

I have a folder named: TTF_Documents_Tactics

And inside it has: Classic Tactics, Documents, Modern Formations and Experimental Formations. And inside each folder has documetns which are unreadable.

[speed_demon]

Thanks for the time and effort put into this, hopefully this will help put an end to my shabby away performances.

[deggesim]

I'm looking the screenshots of FM2010, in particular the Create Tactic section... wwfan... I think you must give us some explanation!

It seems the framework will be part of the game, congratulations!

[goldfan]

I have just the one question on this. Where the different managerial styles are presented (such as the Nike Defence) the numbers indicated are supposed to indicate each players level of aggression? If that is so, is it the same quantisation as that of the games slider? Or is it a rough estimate, out of say 15, 16, 20?

[Millie]

They indicate how many "clicks" of mentality you use on each player, or notches. Furthest left is "1", furthest right is "20".

[Larker]

i hope this advice works.

[goldfan]

Thanks for your help, Millie.

I must say this guide has been very helpful. Just playing percentage football has been good for Hyde so far =)

[Svenc]

Tempo Assumptions

Fast tempo is generally a better bet for attacking sides as the more quickly the ball is moved around, the greater the likelihood of space opening up in the final third. A slower tempo means less misplaced passes but enables the opposing team to have more time to get back into position to cover attacks. It is thus better for more defensively minded formations.

I don't really get this - surely the the best opportunity for a defensive side to score a goal themselves is picking up the ball and catching the opposition off-guard? What is a slow passing game good for, then - except keeping position as much as you can?

[Millie]

I don't really get this - surely the the best opportunity for a defensive side to score a goal themselves is picking up the ball and catching the opposition off-guard? What is a slow passing game good for, then - except keeping position as much as you can?

That's what counter attack is for. However, when the counter isn't on, you don't want to be lashing the ball straight back to the opposition.

[Svenc]

That's what counter attack is for. However, when the counter isn't on, you don't want to be lashing the ball straight back to the opposition.

Really? So ticking the counter attack box speeds up the passing as well - but only when there's an opportunity to counter? But that's one of my main beefs with the game -when it comes to explaining the tactical settings and how they affect the engine, the manual is simply an absolute mess. It just is.

There are also numerous guides on the web, all contradicting themselves on tops. A And even the game's most ardent fans talk about tick-box effects as "rumors". That's just plain wrong. But since I'm sure I'm walking on beaten paths I'll leave it at that. Also the fact that you apparently can have all some of the settings a bit "off" and still be quite successfull makes it all look a little fishy.

[Millie]

Really? So ticking the counter attack box speeds up the passing as well - but only when there's an opportunity to counter? But that's one of my main beefs with the game -when it comes to explaining the tactical settings and how they affect the engine, the manual is simply an absolute mess. It just is.

There are also numerous guides on the web, all contradicting themselves on tops. A And even the game's most ardent fans talk about tick-box effects as "rumors". That's just plain wrong. But since I'm sure I'm walking on beaten paths I'll leave it at that. Also the fact that you apparently can have all some of the settings a bit "off" and still be quite successfull makes it all look a little fishy.

Checking the counter attack box makes everyone have "all out attack" mentality when the team have the ball, which makes them want to get the ball forward quicker and grab a goal - when the attack is on. That comes from PaulC, and I'm sure you can find that quote in these forums somewhere - it may even be in this thread.

The post you linked to pretty much alludes to exactly that - the only difference is that Justified would rather play his counter attacking strategy using the sliders (which would make the team go for the jgular every time they got the ball), whereas wwfan would rather play slowly and deliberately if the attack wasn't on, and only go for the goal if there was more of a chance of a good attack. Playing for the goal versus playing the percentages.

The only reason checking the CA box can "let the opposition come on to you" is because if you're playing a defensive set up, the team will play in that defensive set up when the opposition have the ball - so they will be deeper and more cautious, which tends to let the opposition come to you.

No contradictions is game mechanics here - contradictions in personal preference. I can deal with that. Some would rather player quicker and faster in general - some would prefer the sag-back/explosive counter type of counter strategy. But that's football - different solutions to the same problems.

[Svenc]

Checking the counter attack box makes everyone have "all out attack" mentality when the team have the ball, which makes them want to get the ball forward quicker and grab a goal - when the attack is on. That comes from PaulC, and I'm sure you can find that quote in these forums somewhere - it may even be in this thread.

Thanks for clearing this up - so it's overriding some of the slider settings (tempo, mentality, etc.), but only in specific match situations. But really, this should be in the manual rather than the forums. Exactly like that - telling it in a language that bodes well with explaining a game's mechanics rather than spurting some general lines from Football Tactics 101 a la "If you set your passing to short, your team will play a short passing game". Wouldn't have guessed that, really.

Also, doing some testing at the moment, I find it rather odd that my centre backs in my current saves rarely ever play a direct or more speculative ball even if I crank my passing slider almost all the way up. Now of course there's also creative freedom and mentality sliders that might come into play, but I didn't really tune those down. Almost two years in and I'm still testing certain things in the match engine, dang.

[Millie]

Thanks for clearing this up - so it's overriding some of the slider settings (tempo, mentality, etc.), but only in specific match situations. But really, this should be in the manual rather than the forums. Exactly like that - telling it in a language that bodes well with explaining a game's mechanics rather than spurting some general lines from Football Tactics 101 a la "If you set your passing to short, your team will play a short passing game". Wouldn't have guessed that, really.

Also, doing some testing at the moment, I find it rather odd that my centre backs in my current saves rarely ever play a direct or more speculative ball even if I crank my passing slider almost all the way up. Now of course there's also creative freedom and mentality sliders that might come into play, but I didn't really tune those down. Almost two years in and I'm still testing certain things in the match engine, dang.

One of the things that has been in the forefront of our minds over the past few years has been centre back passing, so you're not alone.

And as for the manual - yes, that has never been very good at explaining the game mechanics of the slider system. I don't think it's ever something SI/SEGA have been able to get right. But then, where does a concise, simple manual stop and a technical dossier begin? Think of how massive the thing would have to be to explain all this stuff?

Once you start to delve into the game, I agree on the whole though - the manual is useless.

[Svenc]

And as for the manual - yes, that has never been very good at explaining the game mechanics of the slider system. I don't think it's ever something SI/SEGA have been able to get right. But then, where does a concise, simple manual stop and a technical dossier begin? Think of how massive the thing would have to be to explain all this stuff?

Yeah, in particular as some sliders are linked in some ways. Still I guess it would be a much better idea to explain each slider individually in terms of what they're ideally meant to do to the dots on the match engine - in the end there's also stats coming into it too in some cases.

Speaking about the passing slider and the centre backs, while we're at it: One thing I've been wondering all along, and it's given me a bigger headache than Barcelona 99, is: Say you want to tell your centre backs to not prefer Hollywood passes and prefer to keep possession - but you still don't want to keep their passing range short or merely direct. Every now and then, you want them to play long balls when an opportunity opens how - how do you do THAT? Explained in the language of the game's mechanics, as the manual should do it, my understanding of the passing slider alone is that it cuts the passing options either short - or opens those up. So that a player that has it set to "long" will look for options all over the pitch and make his decision based on mentality, creative freedom (and probably tempo) settings + decision attributes etc. But a player that has it set to "short" will only look for options right around him, no matter what. But I'm not certain of this, and that's the thing.

I really think this should be explained like that in the manual, at least in simple terms for each slider and tick-box individually. And you guys got all your results from experimenting, is that how it's meant to be? I'd also like an official statement on all those settings either way - as said, there are a good number of guides that are contradicting themselves. And players talking about "rumored effects", right in this thread. As if the entire system was supposed to be the hardest slider puzzle since bloody Myst or something. That kind of smells a bit.

[Sheep UK]

They indicate how many "clicks" of mentality you use on each player, or notches. Furthest left is "1", furthest right is "20".

I counted my clicks and one way (left) it has 13 to the end and the other i have to do 12 what do i do.

Also Is Defend, Support and attack roles directly linked to FWRs or am i missing something?

Thanks Sheep

[qwertman]

are there any more download links available? all of them seems to be dead, including the football-manager.info one.

[Millie]

I counted my clicks and one way (left) it has 13 to the end and the other i have to do 12 what do i do.

Also Is Defend, Support and attack roles directly linked to FWRs or am i missing something?

Thanks Sheep

I don't quite understand what you mean with the first line Sheep. The sliders work like this:

|-----------------------------------------------------|

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

So, the furthest left is 1 and the furthest right is 20. The only slider that doesn't follow this is the team instructions mentality slider, but mostly TT&F ignores that anyway.

If you're getting 13 clicks one way and 12 the other, perhaps you're not counting them correctly? I'm not sure. But the numbers are always counted left to right - 1 being the most left (i.e. 0 clicks)

With the roles, they are mainly linked to FWRs, yes. On the whole, defend = rarely, support = mixed and attack = often. But you can change these to suit your team and your preferred tactical setup.

are there any more download links available? all of them seems to be dead, including the football-manager.info one.

FM-Britain is experiencing some problems due to the domain name not being renewed. The files are available, and we'll look at getting them back up very soon.

[InterWolf]

any news on the downloads links working yet?

[Millie]

It's been 4 hours. By the end of the week we're hoping to have everything back up and running.

[Millie]

The FM-B links should be coming online for most of you over the next 24-48 hours.

[Jay1992]

I used to know but I forgot, how do the sliders work with the tactics?

Is the slider on the far left = 1 or = 0?