Learning possession football

[axelmuller]

Someone said that in Football Manager its easy to play possession football. Despite numerous attempts, I've yet to see the light.

Still at FM2018 with Cambridge United. Managed to get promoted first season, but that was pure luck.

Been using something like this as my base tactic:

Our possession is toothless and shots on target is something like 4 out of 18 attempts. Needless to say, they are stupid long shots. What am I doing wrong?

 

[johnnyyakuza78]

Your formation and roles look a little static if you ask me.

I'd suggest some roles which have a bit more roaming in them. I like to use a false 9, and possibly a B2B midfielder. But anything that gives you more horizontal and vertical movement between the lines will work better. So maybe a Mez.

I'd also be wanting to use Wingbacks to really create more width too. 

[Experienced Defender]

Are you sure that your players are capable of playing that style of football in the first place?

[axelmuller]

13 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Are you sure that your players are capable of playing that style of football in the first place?

i believe so, yes. Semi ok technical and mental stats all over the board.

13 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Your formation and roles look a little static if you ask me.

I'd suggest some roles which have a bit more roaming in them. I like to use a false 9, and possibly a B2B midfielder. But anything that gives you more horizontal and vertical movement between the lines will work better. So maybe a Mez.

I'd also be wanting to use Wingbacks to really create more width too. 

they indeed are quite static. I tried to put together some logical roles so that the tactic would be multi-dimensional. Winger staying wide so the cm-attack would have the space. Inside forward cutting inside and left back going forward. DLP playmaker holding position because of the overlapping leftback.

Been trying false9. The problem is, nobody is really suited for that role. They end up dribbling and losing the ball or hoofing longshots. Box to box midfielder, thats a very demanding role. Should probably try it at some point instead of the cm attack, but then I should up the mentality to Control at least I guess?

Do Wingbacks create more width than Fullbacks ? if that's the case, I should definitely try using wingbacks.

[summatsupeer]

Why do you think that is a "possession" setup?  You have two roles that will cross often and the only TI to change how you attack is Shorter Passing and only instruction to try and get ball back quicker is a higher line, even though your using a DM-D to shield the defenders so will have fewer players high up to try and win ball back early.

A few tweaks and can improve the tactic but I wouldn't call it a possession system.

[axelmuller]

10 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

Why do you think that is a "possession" setup?  You have two roles that will cross often and the only TI to change how you attack is Shorter Passing and only instruction to try and get ball back quicker is a higher line, even though your using a DM-D to shield the defenders so will have fewer players high up to try and win ball back early.

A few tweaks and can improve the tactic but I wouldn't call it a possession system.

I think because of support duties and shorter passing. The crossing roles are there because of some variety. All of them guides say you shouldnt be one dimensional. After all, I want good penetrative possession, not posssession for the sake of it.

[summatsupeer]

6 hours ago, axelmuller said:

I think because of support duties and shorter passing. The crossing roles are there because of some variety. All of them guides say you shouldnt be one dimensional. After all, I want good penetrative possession, not posssession for the sake of it.

How are your attack duties going to use that extra risk? Well one is a FB told to cross often, does swinging crosses in often fit a possession style? Nope. The winger will cross often to but not as risky so has more chance of selecting a possession pass than if he was attack.  How many teams with great technical players dominating possession also have size and aerial prowess to risk swinging crosses into a packed box? Most would view it as a waste and a last resort in that situation rather than working ball around more.

I'd say you've misunderstood the guides or they dont know what they're talking about.  Giving multiple options and not having multiple players doing same thing in same area is good.  Making every tactic try a bit of everything just means you have no defined style, which is not bad if that's what you want.

[Hovis Dexter]

You'll probably find this very useful.

 

[axelmuller]

20 hours ago, Hovis Dexter said:

You'll probably find this very useful.

 

that indeed is very insightful, have read it many times before.

The point is, I have a clear plan in my mind but can't translate it to Fm terms.

I wanna smash the league with possessional football like Swansea City did back in the day: http://www.haugstadfootball.net/2011/05/31/swans-success-down-to-martinez-legacy/

[herne79]

One key thing to understand is that possession in FM is measured differently to real life.  In real life it's measured by the number of passes made.  In FM it's the time you're in possession of the ball.

So in FM there are two sides to this - keeping the ball and winning the ball back quickly.  So keeping the ball is one thing (helped by such areas as role & duty selection, movement, not taking undue risks, tempo, passing styles and so on) but winning the ball back is something else entirely - so such things as pressing in the right areas, forcing errors and a player's mental capacity to get involved.

[axelmuller]

As the late great Nelson Mandela said. I never lose, I win or learn.

In this case it is more like I never win, I lose or learn.

Been managing Sunderland, because of the fantastic Sunderland til I die series. And the football has been atrocious. Just got decapitated by Reading of all teams. Final result 5-1, PKM should be attached.

Got some inspiration from this thread https://community.sigames.com/topic/367318-tactical-development-at-aston-villa/

 

Maybe I should be playing 4231 instead since every other team seems to play it - the 2 DMC men could mitigate the opposition threat. Or then again, maybe not.. And as the great Cleon himself said, don't concentrate on the opposition.

How to keep it simple ?

 

Pkm.pkm

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, axelmuller said:

As far as I can see in this screenshot, you are 5th in the Championship and it's April (end of the season), so you are actually overachieving with Sunderland. I don't understand what more you actually expect.

Btw, this tactic doesn't look bad at all.

[axelmuller]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

As far as I can see in this screenshot, you are 5th in the Championship and it's April (end of the season), so you are actually overachieving with Sunderland. I don't understand what more you actually expect.

Btw, this tactic doesn't look bad at all.

Thank you for the feedback.

Somethings still missing if we are leaking goals like a sieve, night in night out. 5 goals in one match is unacceptable, in real life they would have sacked me already.

With a massive club like Sunderland, I am expecting to at least try to win every single match.

[Johnny Ace]

Are you still looking to play possession football?

To be fair, there's not a lot wrong with that, as a tactic, maybe I'd want more of a spearhead striker, one that's going to force the backline back & be a focal point for the team rather than deep dropping & look to hold the ball up type. Like, I can't see who he's going to be looking for? The CM A maybe but who else? 

[herne79]

39 minutes ago, axelmuller said:

5 goals in one match is unacceptable, in real life they would have sacked me already.

Did Man Utd sack Sir Alex Ferguson when they lost 5-1 to Man City in 1989 at the start of his Man Utd career?  Or when they lost 6-1 to Man City in 2011 towards the end of his time there?  How about their 5-0 loss to Newcastle?  Or the same score in a defeat by Chelsea?  6-3 to Southampton?  4-0 to Barcelona?  The list goes on.

Shipping 5 goals in one match may be unacceptable, but it doesn't result in sackings.  It happens to the best managers.

39 minutes ago, axelmuller said:

With a massive club like Sunderland, I am expecting to at least try to win every single match.

@Experienced Defender is on the money already here.  You - nobody else - are expecting too much too soon.  Especially when expecting to win every single match .  Yes Sunderland have the potential to become a massive club: the fanbase is there, but the team isn't.  You are already over achieving, which is great.  Just imagine what more you can achieve over time as you bring in better players.  Be patient .

[Experienced Defender]

39 minutes ago, axelmuller said:

Somethings still missing if we are leaking goals like a sieve, night in night out. 5 goals in one match is unacceptable, in real life they would have sacked me already

Okay, I agree that conceding so many goals in a single match is too much, but that does happen sometimes even to better teams than Sunderland. 

 

40 minutes ago, axelmuller said:

With a massive club like Sunderland, I am expecting to at least try to win every single match

I myself managed Sunderland in FM18. Media prediction was 11th and board expectation to reach the play-offs. Which means that Sunderland is not considered such a "massive" club that should win every single match.  Therefore your 5th place is a very good achievement that you should be satisfied with IMHO.

[99]

Em 07/07/2019 em 16:53, axelmuller disse:

Someone said that in Football Manager its easy to play possession football. Despite numerous attempts, I've yet to see the light.

Still at FM2018 with Cambridge United. Managed to get promoted first season, but that was pure luck.

Been using something like this as my base tactic:

Our possession is toothless and shots on target is something like 4 out of 18 attempts. Needless to say, they are stupid long shots. What am I doing wrong?

 

I got a ton of new ideias for my 4-1-4-1 from this video, by @Rashidi, which is based on the Man City setup:

It's not pure possession football, but you'll have more possession plus almost total control of the game. The gamechanger for me and that made my team playing beautiful to my eyes (just like watching Guardiola's Man City) was the Inverted Wing Back role to the Fullbacks. Makes such a difference!

[axelmuller]

thank you all for the insightful replies.

Yes I'm trying to play possession football still. And I'm still a firm believer that a lone striker without a AMC man behind him should be on support. He would be looking for CM-A yes, also the both wide players since Winger gets into the box when played at AM Strata.

If Sir Alex or Wenger had started their managerial careers in the turbulent times of Modern Football, they wouldnt have lasted that long. Just look at Darren Moore at West Bromwich for example. Quite similar situation than where I am at the moment. First season after relegation, 4th place in the standings, sacked after a draw.

Already made some shrewd signings, also some Croatian mafioso's took over the club, cant wait for the summer transfer window to open. I agree that patience is the key, hope the new board feel the same way..

Yes that Rashidi stuff is wonderful. I am a keen admirer or Pep Guardiola, in my opinion his Barcelona side is the greatest ever team I've ever seen play Football. However, I don't really get the inverted wingback thing. Maybe I'm too old fashioned but I want my fullbacks to stay near the touchline and provide some width.