Football Manager 2019 Official Feedback Thread

[Garrlor]

5 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

There's very little wrong with the match engine at the moment, certainly nothing 'major' to the extent some on here would have you believe. 

So I played a couple of test games on FM18 and FM19 yesterday.

On 18, my strikers and AMC's would move to get the ball, then when they passed it on they would make darts into space or attempt to get into posistion for a cross. I also had a couple of reverse pass through balls from Mata into big Rom. I would have crosses blocked out wide, however when my players had space they would actually attack it and cross properly. I think the key for me is that players atctually follow thier roles and duties, attacking space when its available. Using Pogba as a SV(A) saw him race forward into space when play was congested on the right and belt a finish into the top corner.

On 19, my strikers stand still. Totally immobile. I havent seen fullbacks attack gaping spaces, they trudge forward and wait to be closed down before whacking a cross into the defenders legs. I don't see little give and go's between my front players, certainly no short dashes into space that I saw in 18. I think the biggest problem right now is that there is nothing wrong with the Match Engine... if you go full Obi Wan Kenobi and look at it from a certain point of view. I think the engine demonstrates certain tactics really well. However if you have a different idea of how the game should be played you are bang out of luck. Which is where 19 falls down to be honest. The lack of forward movement and differentiation between roles has caused some issues. I think most peoples greatest problem right now is that we have no idea if there will be another ME update to potentially fix this problem, which based off previous years might be unlikely.

[GOODNAME]

5 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

There's very little wrong with the match engine at the moment, certainly nothing 'major' to the extent some on here would have you believe. 

- AMC thorough balls

- Reduce the number of goals from long shots

- Fix the movement of the strikers

- Reduce the number of red cards

Its not little and its not huge,but we deserve a fix for all of those things.

 

[bleventozturk]

10 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

- AMC thorough balls

- Reduce the number of goals from long shots

- Fix the movement of the strikers

- Reduce the number of red cards

Its not little and its not huge,but we deserve a fix for all of those things.

 

Mostly agreed. I don't see much problems myself with red cards, including AI vs. AI games. I'm sure they are looking into it, but I suspect the human players see more of that because most people want to press more, pressure more, etc. and don't like seeing consequences of that style of play.  I played half a season already, and I have yet to see a single red card between me and my opponents in those games.

Other than that, I think that the game is definitely enjoyable at the moment, but those are still big and glaring issues, and if they get improved even a little bit, it will go a long way to improve the ME experience. 

- Add overpowered set pieces to the list

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by bleventozturk

[CFuller]

I can't be the only user on here who's still seeing a good mixture of goals, surely? I am seeing more long-range shots (and consequently more long-range goals) but the figures aren't truly outlandish. Admittedly, I've not played that many matches since the update (about a third of a season's worth), but still...

There are still some problems with player movement in some positions (as others have mentioned), but SI will release a fix if and when they can. Some users need to bear in mind that the match engine is incredibly complicated, and even what one might assume is a simple fix to one aspect of the game could have a huge knock-on effect elsewhere. They won't rush out an improvement to player movement, for example, if it leads to oddities like 17-12 scorelines becoming commonplace.

[gavinski33]

6 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

- AMC thorough balls

- Reduce the number of goals from long shots

- Fix the movement of the strikers

- Reduce the number of red cards

Its not little and its not huge,but we deserve a fix for all of those things.

 

But these things aren't an issue to me in my save, this is the problem.

I was scoring and conceding a lot of long shots, circa 20 yards, but originally I upped my defensive line to combat it and since last patch I neither score nor concede any. I just lost a game because of a corner but that happens, I looked at my set pieces afterwards and everything UI seemed different and my instructions had changed, hopefully I've fixed that. 

I play 4-4-2 and I see my more attacking midfielder (bbm, sometimes bwm/s + get further forward) getting forward and knocking balls wide right or through the middle or having a pop at goal. My left mid (wp/s) cuts in and does the same, he finds room and puts a ball in that my forwards (usually pf/s and p/a, but different opposition that might change to a dlf/s or tm/s and pf/a) generally move onto and waste.

I've never had a problem with discipline. I always get the press telling me how wonderful it is that I don't get cards of any flavour and that I'm top of that particular list and how proud I must be etc, yet I don't tick any boxes saying tackle harder or less so. Very rare in any of my own particular games that I see a red for either me or the opposition, and I don't seem to recall a lot of ill-discipline in AI matches either.

A million different players, a billion different saves, a trillion different scenarios.

 

[karlcole]

Free kicks after the patch are ridiculous almost making the game unplayable! easily a goal every 2 games conceded is a free kick. So frustrating and totally taking the fun out of my save!!

[Dagenham_Dave]

18 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I can't be the only user on here who's still seeing a good mixture of goals, surely? 

You're not. 

[Phil930]

The update coincided with the start of my second season (Chelsea).  Fixture list was not kind - Arsenal (A), Liverpool (H), Man Utd (A), so a little frustrated by those results like, but even through pre-season I noticed:

• Lower penalty success rate (as noted above)
• Goal keeper mistakes. Went all of last season without anything glaring, this time in 5 games twice he has dribbled out, been tackled by striker, and scored an empty goal.  I have since changed role to Sweeper Keeper Defend vs Support and seems better
• Freekicks - they go in, a lot
• Goals seem more spectacular, which is fun to watch

The above is all muddied by new signings and coaches etc, but was a perceived difference.

[bleventozturk]

It is better to watch the goals from many AI vs AI games to have a better view of what is happening, and not just your games. Human players can always adjust to every new ME's strengths and shortcomings, but AI's approach is more straightforward.

I do see different types of goals too, but goals are significantly skewed at the moment. Way too many goals from set pieces, that much is sure. It is not very uncommon to see a midfielders with good free kick taking attribute scoring 2-3 free kick goals in a match. When you see one, it is exciting. When you see so many, not so much.

[baris28]

Maybe there should not be long shot, free kick, crossing , penalty etc attribute and -many more- just only the basic ones on player attributes not to confuse gamers what happens on the pitch.

Edited December 15, 2018 by baris28

[gavinski33]

49 minutes ago, baris28 said:

Maybe there should not be long shot, free kick, crossing , penalty etc attribute and -many more- just only the basic ones on player attributes not to confuse gamers what happens on the pitch.

This is true. Maybe people should watch games on full or comp also just to see the amount of rubbish through balls, corners, and free kicks that go on. I promise you, FM 19 is as tedious as real life football, if you want to watch it on MOTD mode then fine - but you're cherry picking. All crosses lead to goals, all free kicks go in,  you see that because you're only watching highlights that let them go in!

I'm not trying to be all FM'er than thou over this, but I've played the same save now since beta, across 9 seasons and 3 countries, and I've had to change things here and there to combat different defences and incorporate particular personnel, and probably counter patches, and I promise you I've seen different behaviours and different goals from different tactics and players.

Maybe I'm less patient than many of you or less dedicated to a particular philosophy but if I see what I'm trying to do isn't working then I change it, I don't email the boss and complain about it. If that means I'm accepting and exploiting the limitations of the ME then so be it, but what, exactly, is refusing to play the game if your AMc doesn't get 9.3 and 4 assists every game do? Notoriously flaky players anyhow. Perhaps Enganches and Trequaristas and False 9's are hard to replicate in game because they're hard to replicate in real life? 

Ozil? He's got time off for playing too many computer games, possibly trying to find his role on '19? Can't get in his team though, and when he did - I can't mind who it was against but it was breathtaking - he played wide.

In all honesty, in my save, I've got a right full back who I ask to cross early into the centre - he does that and I get assists. My left back is a fb/a set to stay wider and he does that. Midfield strata: wp/s cm/d bbm/s and w/a. Lefty tucks in and puts in a few cute passes into the box, the midfield, or back left for fullback bombing on, cm/d drops deep, bbm/s (by far the best player) gets forward and either knocks it wide right for the winger or tries to nick a ball inside for a forward - if he has few assists it's because they weren't finished, not because they weren't attempted - my forwards (tough subject, I changed direction and my 32 in 40 club icon last year now has 4 in 30) drop back and get involved in play just as I'd expect them too. Perhaps too much sometimes when I see my P/a moving out wide but these are footballers, they'd very much like to see the football i imagine.

Particularly when I change my 2nd striker (pf/s to start, but can be tm/s or dlf/s depending on opposition or substitutes) I notice a huge change in how my team plays, similiarly if I change my W/a (hugs line) to WM/a (runs with ball often) or my WP/s to an IW/s. Even swapping bbm/s with different attributes and the same TI/PI seems to have an impact although I imagine that is more down to freshness and eagerness.

Do I concede a million goals a season from set pieces? No. Not in non-league, not in Asia, and not in the DP. Do I score them, sadly no (I'd love to be Pulis but I only get to train the players once a fortnight) Longshots? I've got the best in the country and he doesn't get them often, but one lad knocked a worldie in against me so I scouted him and his ls was 5 or 6 or something. So he hit one and got lucky, well played mate, if he was knocking them in every week we'd have a problem but he didn't - he closed his eyes and swung a boot and it went in. It happens.

I honestly don't see the problem in this ME. You can't play like Pep? Nobody can! That's like level 101 with enchanted armour ****, work at it mate. 

 

 

 

[Weller1980]

15 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

There's very little wrong with the match engine at the moment, certainly nothing 'major' to the extent some on here would have you believe. 

It’s a subjective opinion, but you need to accept the current ME has major problems that urgently need addressing, however it does has massive potential to be the best ME ever if they can fix a few of the problems in the attacking 1/3

Edited December 16, 2018 by Weller1980

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Weller1980 said:

It’s a subjective opinion, but you need to accept the current ME has major problems that urgently need addressing, however it does has massive potential to be the best ME ever if they can fix a few of the problems in the attacking 1/3

The fact that it's subjective says he doesn't need to accept it any more than you need to accept his. 

The issues have been objectively documented and SI are looking into it. Outside of that, I think people should stop worrying about how others feel about it, because ultimately it's not going to change what SI do. You think its major, he doesn’t. In the end neither will have an impact on what SI do. It's not just aimed at you, but a lot of this threads seems to have boiled down to trying to convince each other how good or bad it is. In the words of Frozen, people should let it go. 

[themadsheep2001]

9 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

It is better to watch the goals from many AI vs AI games to have a better view of what is happening, and not just your games. Human players can always adjust to every new ME's strengths and shortcomings, but AI's approach is more straightforward.

I do see different types of goals too, but goals are significantly skewed at the moment. Way too many goals from set pieces, that much is sure. It is not very uncommon to see a midfielders with good free kick taking attribute scoring 2-3 free kick goals in a match. When you see one, it is exciting. When you see so many, not so much.

It's tricky because perhaps part of that stems from too many set piece chances, especially corners, which comes from going wider a bit too much, so perhaps something you wouldn't want to rebalance that before you had a look at centre play. Don't envy SI here, knock ons seem endless. 

[craiigman]

Anyone noticed throw ins being pretty awful in general? I’m not talking about attacking or defending long throws.

More so that the ball seems to always gets thrown at head height (even when unmarked) which results in the player heading it out for a throw to the other team.

This is an issue on 2 levels. 1 why is that where the ball is thrown? 2. Why can a player not head the ball to another player when unmarked/try to control the ball.

This happens at all levels.

I just started up a save in French’s National 1 which is a lesser league. But had a phase of play with 5-6 throws where is was this over and over, a couple were duels for the ball, but even then why throw it to him and not the unmarked player.

Probaly won’t notice it unless on full/comprehensive but it’s really hard to watch at times.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, craiigman said:

Anyone noticed throw ins being pretty awful in general? I’m not talking about attacking or defending long throws.

More so that the ball seems to always gets thrown at head height (even when unmarked) which results in the player heading it out for a throw to the other team.

This is an issue on 2 levels. 1 why is that where the ball is thrown? 2. Why can a player not head the ball to another player when unmarked/try to control the ball.

This happens at all levels.

I just started up a save in French’s National 1 which is a lesser league. But had a phase of play with 5-6 throws where is was this over and over, a couple were duels for the ball, but even then why throw it to him and not the unmarked player.

Probaly won’t notice it unless on full/comprehensive but it’s really hard to watch at times.

Yep, noticed as I play on comprehensive. I'm currently  looking at whether it's exacerbated by the default settings. Will see how that goes for a several games before creating a bug report. 

[Garrlor]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's tricky because perhaps part of that stems from too many set piece chances, especially corners, which comes from going wider a bit too much, so perhaps something you wouldn't want to rebalance that before you had a look at centre play. Don't envy SI here, knock ons seem endless. 

In response to this and your previous post... no one will be 100% happy with the ME. There will always be some minor niggle that annoys people, a player will do something stupid, a player with 1 for long shots will smack in a 45 yard screamer (Incidentally I once had a rightback (FM05) in the conference who smacked in a lob from the edge of his own area when he noticed the oppo keeper by the half way lline. Fun times). Changing one thing now will have implications for everything else further down the road. I wonder if they have changed too much for this years game with the shift in tactics creation, 3 phases of play AND a massive training revamp. Plus the implementaion of styles such as tika-taka, gegenpress into the ME with a whole host of roles and duties. I guess this is the problem trying to make a great game even better year on year with big changes and new stuff for an insaitiable crowd of football fanatics, keeping up with the modern game etc etc. As some others have suggested, it might be better to release every couple of years and just add a DLC transfer, updated CA/PA and new players pack rather than a full new game every year. It would give them time to fully perfect the match engine for the game, though I know the money side of life would be the biggest factor in this.

I was reading the beta thread when everyone made the comment that goals were coming from crosses too much, but that the football was pretty good. The general consensus was it was a great ME, the wide play needed to come down a little with central play going up a bit.. Once SI turned the wide play down, central play never really came back up. It has become really hard to play certain styles, which I think is a shame. You shouldnt be forced to play a certain way because of the ME, it takes the fun out of the game for a lot of people. Last year, if you wanted to win easily you could plug in TFF Demolisher and play a 5-2-3 with 3 central strikers that smashed your opponent pretty much every time, but it wasnt the only way to play. I had great sucess with a controlling 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 both domesitcally and in Europe. Hell, I started a Salford City save and had a blast playing a counter attacking wing based 4-4-2 with pretty much default instructions.

I think the main reason, and this is just my opinion, is the implementation of Gegenpressing into the game (which is a phrase I hate by the way. One manager says something with a goofy grin and all of a sudden the footballing world falls on its knees and proclaims it a style). I vaguely recall last year that SI had issues implementing that style of football into the ME, with people trying to implement it via PI's and TI's as best as possible. Now that its a type of tactical selection in the ME, combined with the 3 phases of play selections, it seems to have caused some issues. It is interesting that the best goals seem to be scored from a quick press and counter with people who want a possesion based style that clicks into gear with quick shifts of players and space in the final third seem to struggle.

A thought just popped into my head, thinking of my issues with fullbacks not attacking space at speed with the ball, I wonder if its coding relating to the desire to counter press. I.E they are waiting to lose the ball in order to win it back and spring a counter. Same with the strikers, they arent moving due to staying close by the defender for a counter press. Just a random thought, I am still getting through my first coffee today!

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, Garrlor said:

In response to this and your previous post... no one will be 100% happy with the ME. There will always be some minor niggle that annoys people, a player will do something stupid, a player with 1 for long shots will smack in a 45 yard screamer (Incidentally I once had a rightback (FM05) in the conference who smacked in a lob from the edge of his own area when he noticed the oppo keeper by the half way lline. Fun times). Changing one thing now will have implications for everything else further down the road. I wonder if they have changed too much for this years game with the shift in tactics creation, 3 phases of play AND a massive training revamp. Plus the implementaion of styles such as tika-taka, gegenpress into the ME with a whole host of roles and duties. I guess this is the problem trying to make a great game even better year on year with big changes and new stuff for an insaitiable crowd of football fanatics, keeping up with the modern game etc etc. As some others have suggested, it might be better to release every couple of years and just add a DLC transfer, updated CA/PA and new players pack rather than a full new game every year. It would give them time to fully perfect the match engine for the game, though I know the money side of life would be the biggest factor in this.

I was reading the beta thread when everyone made the comment that goals were coming from crosses too much, but that the football was pretty good. The general consensus was it was a great ME, the wide play needed to come down a little with central play going up a bit.. Once SI turned the wide play down, central play never really came back up. It has become really hard to play certain styles, which I think is a shame. You shouldnt be forced to play a certain way because of the ME, it takes the fun out of the game for a lot of people. Last year, if you wanted to win easily you could plug in TFF Demolisher and play a 5-2-3 with 3 central strikers that smashed your opponent pretty much every time, but it wasnt the only way to play. I had great sucess with a controlling 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 both domesitcally and in Europe. Hell, I started a Salford City save and had a blast playing a counter attacking wing based 4-4-2 with pretty much default instructions.

I think the main reason, and this is just my opinion, is the implementation of Gegenpressing into the game (which is a phrase I hate by the way. One manager says something with a goofy grin and all of a sudden the footballing world falls on its knees and proclaims it a style). I vaguely recall last year that SI had issues implementing that style of football into the ME, with people trying to implement it via PI's and TI's as best as possible. Now that its a type of tactical selection in the ME, combined with the 3 phases of play selections, it seems to have caused some issues. It is interesting that the best goals seem to be scored from a quick press and counter with people who want a possesion based style that clicks into gear with quick shifts of players and space in the final third seem to struggle.

A thought just popped into my head, thinking of my issues with fullbacks not attacking space at speed with the ball, I wonder if its coding relating to the desire to counter press. I.E they are waiting to lose the ball in order to win it back and spring a counter. Same with the strikers, they arent moving due to staying close by the defender for a counter press. Just a random thought, I am still getting through my first coffee today!

Some good points. I'd say SI are damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to changing and adding things. So ultimately I'd always say SI should go with their own thinking rather than worry too much about a fanbase that will want different things from different parts of it and even things that would contradict another section of the fanbase. 

RE two years, it's long been talked about so apologies if I sound blunt, just trying to sum it up. Would never work, because you couldn't justify selling DLC at full price which means you'd lose a lot of investment which pays a lot of staff to do the things they do, so ultimately it would negatively affect development rather than help it. 

As for the counter press on the strikers/full back , I don't think they are related, but they do need improvement. 

[craiigman]

21 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yep, noticed as I play on comprehensive. I'm currently  looking at whether it's exacerbated by the default settings. Will see how that goes for a several games before creating a bug report. 

Okay I’m not going mad lol

Let us know how it goes. I did setup some throws on a previous save and was seeing the same sort of thing.

I also wonder if it has anything to do with their being no attribute for throws other than long throw?

[Rashidi]

14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Some good points. I'd say SI are damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to changing and adding things. So ultimately I'd always say SI should go with their own thinking rather than worry too much about a fanbase that will want different things from different parts of it and even things that would contradict another section of the fanbase. 

RE two years, it's long been talked about so apologies if I sound blunt, just trying to sum it up. Would never work, because you couldn't justify selling DLC at full price which means you'd lose a lot of investment which pays a lot of staff to do the things they do, so ultimately it would negatively affect development rather than help it. 

As for the counter press on the strikers/full back , I don't think they are related, but they do need improvement. 

In my honest opinion if only one of the internal testers in SI’s team manages to play without the issues faced by others then SI should stick to its guns. 

Previous history suggests that’s what they will do.

Personally defending throw ins and wide and deep free kicks isn’t much of an issue. 

[Mensell76]

19 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

In my honest opinion if only one of the internal testers in SI’s team manages to play without the issues faced by others then SI should stick to its guns. 

I actually more or less agree, but it would be very helpful if SI in that case would point the people facing the known issues in the right direction since this year even for the hardcore fanatic testers the issues seem almost impossible to overcome..

Is central play very much possible? How can we achieve it?

Can attackers move more freely, timely and intelligently off the ball based on on the ball action by f.e. the midfield consistently ? Again how?

I have asked for direction and tips from SI in several threads because indeed there is always the possibility that we are doing something "wrong" in this year's ME. Unfortunately there has not been any documented direction to show us differently and that just leaves us with documented major issues (major in terms of making attacking play/players look very restricted).

 

[karlcole]

I don't have an issue with the odd crazy thing in the match engine the odd keeper clanger happens all the time. But after being too of the league in December with 1 loss all season I updated to the new patch and have lost 7 Inna row with a 6 free kicks conceded and 5 long shots, these did not happen before the patch and it's clearer happening to much! I don't doubt free kicks and long shots go in but the amount at the moment is crazy and killing my enjoyment for the game 

 

[rain94]

3 hours ago, karlcole said:

I don't have an issue with the odd crazy thing in the match engine the odd keeper clanger happens all the time. But after being too of the league in December with 1 loss all season I updated to the new patch and have lost 7 Inna row with a 6 free kicks conceded and 5 long shots, these did not happen before the patch and it's clearer happening to much! I don't doubt free kicks and long shots go in but the amount at the moment is crazy and killing my enjoyment for the game 

 

Have you tried to train Defending Set Pieces? Do you use the default routines or do your create your own using the set-piece creator?

As for defending long shots, I have found that setting one of your CB's to Stopper helps. Do you close down and/or mark key players with high long shooting attribute? You can also try to defend more narrow.

Edited December 16, 2018 by rain94

[karlcole]

37 minutes ago, rain94 said:

Have you tried to train Defending Set Pieces? Do you use the default routines or do your create your own using the set-piece creator?

As for defending long shots, I have found that setting one of your CB's to Stopper helps. Do you close down and/or mark key players with high long shooting attribute? You can also try to defend more narrow.

Im talking about direct free kicks ive just conceded 2 in a game from a cb with free kick taking of 6!

[bleventozturk]

6 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's tricky because perhaps part of that stems from too many set piece chances, especially corners, which comes from going wider a bit too much, so perhaps something you wouldn't want to rebalance that before you had a look at centre play. Don't envy SI here, knock ons seem endless. 

Makes sense. I see how it is a difficult balancing act. I hope for the best, but for now I came to piece with the shortcomings, and totally enjoying the game at the moment. Once you realize it is just a game, and not a perfect simulation of real life soccer, it is easier to enjoy.

[rain94]

22 minutes ago, karlcole said:

Im talking about direct free kicks ive just conceded 2 in a game from a cb with free kick taking of 6!

You can setup routines for defending Direct Free Kicks. Perhaps adding more players to the wall will help.  You can also specifially train "Defending Free Kicks". If your assistant is in charge of setting training, he doesn't select that option.  Through 25 matches, I have only conceded 1. So it is not a bug. This is entirely with version 19.2

Edited December 16, 2018 by rain94

[rain94]

And proof that my save is entirely with 19.2 

[rain94]

And conceded only 3 from outside of the box in the run of play. That seems pretty realistic to me. I am defense oriented and like to play very tight and compact.

[Svenc]

As to Feedback, and sorting out which could be influenced by (AI plus human) tactics andn which not:

I've prior always held the position that it should be possible to do pretty bonkers stuff in the tactics UI which translates to stuff you barely ever see on
an actual pitch (and on occasioin, be burnt for it). After all, what's the point if you can't make biggie mistakes?

However, I'm starting to change my stance for the following reasons.

1) It's impossible to anticipate fully what human players come up with (the download sections of this forum alone are filled by nonsensicals all over.)

2) The more narrow the corridor for tactical decisions, the easier the game is being balanced.

More importantly:

3) The game simulates semi/professional football management, not some schoolboy class in team sports tactics. E.g. it is assumed that managers participating are up
to the par, whilst the game has always assumed as soon as you log on to FM, it is a learning job to getting to the absolutely basics. And if you conquer them, you typically
already have an edge over AI competition (even at the very top)

4) AI would benefit from locked out nonsensicals too.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about the game locking out (or an assistant going apeshit over):

- YO, everybody go forward (nuff said)
- Compressing the space going forward to the size of a tuna can, despite actually wanting to stretch an opposition
- Picking a narrow formation, and then not advancing a single wide player (on the AI's end, only acceptable PERHAPS as a means to play for the draw / secure a result)
- Belting the ball to a (lone) target man without any support whatsoever
- Picking a top heavy formation and then additionally choking the space by fielding two IFs and advancing centre mids behind them so that everybody holds a picknick in the
centre of the park like you haven't ever seen one before
- sides who've never heard about systematically protecting a back line
- sides who've never heard about a systematically pivot player holding the centre of the park and providing easy passing triangles (in particular in possession based systems)

All of this until more recent could also still happen for the AI. Generally, the sooner the game shifts away from potentially nonsensical micro-decisions, and the more to stuff that may actually happen on a football pitch, the probably better. This is a football management, sim, not a team sports basic learning course for Serial victims of Match Of The Day (Possession and shots means we're Winning dude).. 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Svenc

[craiigman]

Anyone from SI able to take a look at this, more specifically my most recent post there. It seems the “play from the back” instruction has changed, without changing the wording and makes the instruction a lot less clear on what it actually does now.

Edited December 16, 2018 by craiigman

[mightypvfc]

Haven't upgraded to 19 just yet. Can anyone tell me if instant control has been fixed? In 18, players took the ball out of the air like Zidane, I'm talking 5-6 tier centre-backs immediately taking a long ball into their stride. This happened all of the time and troubled me somewhat (and still does actually).

[RocheBag]

16 hours ago, gavinski33 said:

This is true. Maybe people should watch games on full or comp also just to see the amount of rubbish through balls, corners, and free kicks that go on. I promise you, FM 19 is as tedious as real life football, if you want to watch it on MOTD mode then fine - but you're cherry picking. All crosses lead to goals, all free kicks go in,  you see that because you're only watching highlights that let them go in!

I'm not trying to be all FM'er than thou over this, but I've played the same save now since beta, across 9 seasons and 3 countries, and I've had to change things here and there to combat different defences and incorporate particular personnel, and probably counter patches, and I promise you I've seen different behaviours and different goals from different tactics and players.

Maybe I'm less patient than many of you or less dedicated to a particular philosophy but if I see what I'm trying to do isn't working then I change it, I don't email the boss and complain about it. If that means I'm accepting and exploiting the limitations of the ME then so be it, but what, exactly, is refusing to play the game if your AMc doesn't get 9.3 and 4 assists every game do? Notoriously flaky players anyhow. Perhaps Enganches and Trequaristas and False 9's are hard to replicate in game because they're hard to replicate in real life? 

Ozil? He's got time off for playing too many computer games, possibly trying to find his role on '19? Can't get in his team though, and when he did - I can't mind who it was against but it was breathtaking - he played wide.

In all honesty, in my save, I've got a right full back who I ask to cross early into the centre - he does that and I get assists. My left back is a fb/a set to stay wider and he does that. Midfield strata: wp/s cm/d bbm/s and w/a. Lefty tucks in and puts in a few cute passes into the box, the midfield, or back left for fullback bombing on, cm/d drops deep, bbm/s (by far the best player) gets forward and either knocks it wide right for the winger or tries to nick a ball inside for a forward - if he has few assists it's because they weren't finished, not because they weren't attempted - my forwards (tough subject, I changed direction and my 32 in 40 club icon last year now has 4 in 30) drop back and get involved in play just as I'd expect them too. Perhaps too much sometimes when I see my P/a moving out wide but these are footballers, they'd very much like to see the football i imagine.

Particularly when I change my 2nd striker (pf/s to start, but can be tm/s or dlf/s depending on opposition or substitutes) I notice a huge change in how my team plays, similiarly if I change my W/a (hugs line) to WM/a (runs with ball often) or my WP/s to an IW/s. Even swapping bbm/s with different attributes and the same TI/PI seems to have an impact although I imagine that is more down to freshness and eagerness.

Do I concede a million goals a season from set pieces? No. Not in non-league, not in Asia, and not in the DP. Do I score them, sadly no (I'd love to be Pulis but I only get to train the players once a fortnight) Longshots? I've got the best in the country and he doesn't get them often, but one lad knocked a worldie in against me so I scouted him and his ls was 5 or 6 or something. So he hit one and got lucky, well played mate, if he was knocking them in every week we'd have a problem but he didn't - he closed his eyes and swung a boot and it went in. It happens.

I honestly don't see the problem in this ME. You can't play like Pep? Nobody can! That's like level 101 with enchanted armour ****, work at it mate. 

 

 

 

The issue is that pep cant play like pep either.  Surely that's an issue. I have no interest in playing like pep. But when my wolves dominate possession vs man city away and ill not even trying to keep the ball, that's a problem.

With regards to corners. It's easy to say you're only watching the ones that go in, but when real life teams are scoring 10 a season at most and FM teams are scoring 25, it doesn't matter how many highlights you watch - it's too many.

[sporadicsmiles]

17 hours ago, gavinski33 said:

my forwards (tough subject, I changed direction and my 32 in 40 club icon last year now has 4 in 30) drop back and get involved in play just as I'd expect them too.

See, now this is my main gripe with the game, and why I did not yet buy it (I have been playing with the demo so far this year). This is simply something I do not see happen correctly. Recycling the ball with an opponent pinned back will see your striker sit on the shoulder of a defender, never mind which role you use. A DLF, for instance, should not behave like a poacher. Or, at least not every single time. I will likely receive the game for christmas (I usually do), so perhaps when I play more I will find some work around.

The problem, for me, is this destroys an entire way of playing. I have already worked out I can change things up and try to get the ball to a striker during the transition. Then you see nice behaviour. The attacking phase behaviour, though, is weird and not right. If you try to play through the centre of a striker, patiently, everything will instead go down the wings (because wing back movement is great). And has a comparison, the attacking movement of strikers functioned perfectly in FM18. You could immediately tell different roles apart. Anyway, there is no point to moan. For those who have problems, submit bug reports (it is what I will be doing once I can play the game more fully).

On a different note, which I guess has also been brought up, the default set piece setups are just...weird sometimes. As in the assignment of players to positions does not make sense. 

[ajw10]

On 15/12/2018 at 14:54, ajw10 said:

Seeing loads of long range goals since the new update. I feel like the game has taken a huge step backwards which is frustrating

Yeah this game is bad now. I don't know what you've done but please fix it asap

[Garrlor]

10 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Some good points. I'd say SI are damned if they do, damned if they don't when it comes to changing and adding things. So ultimately I'd always say SI should go with their own thinking rather than worry too much about a fanbase that will want different things from different parts of it and even things that would contradict another section of the fanbase. 

RE two years, it's long been talked about so apologies if I sound blunt, just trying to sum it up. Would never work, because you couldn't justify selling DLC at full price which means you'd lose a lot of investment which pays a lot of staff to do the things they do, so ultimately it would negatively affect development rather than help it. 

As for the counter press on the strikers/full back , I don't think they are related, but they do need improvement. 

Everyone wants different things, and I think SI do a good job of replicating most of what people want or are interested in. There are some outliers (such as the wailing and teeth gnashing over the German 3rd div, the biggest non issue of all time) but mostly people get what they want. Often we get what we don't really want too, with things such as Dynamics coming into play. However everything is tied in together and gets better most editions. Personally, I hated the team shape stuff (Fluid, Structured etc). It just did not mesh with my brain at all, but I worked through it and still managed to come up with some half decent tactics. I think the way they have taken the tactics creation side is amazing and a huge, huge leap in the right direction. It lets everyone understand a style so much better when you have roles suggested for you with instructions already baked in. You don't have to guess and you don't have to suffer. Pick your system to suit your players, and away you go.

As I alluded too earlier however, I feel that some of the systems and the change to the way tactics are made now may be why we are struggling with the match engine replicating certain styles. But it is down to SI to try and figure that out in a mountain of code. I think the only thing I want to hear from them regarding this is that they are looking to another patch to update the ME if they can to try and work it out. I am not interested in the breakdown of how, what and why so much as "guys, we hear you all, we will try and fix it". They took a huge step in the right direction by implementing the public beta, but with time pressures probably didn't get to implement half of what they wanted to do. A lot of the complaining on the forums here they can ignore anyway, but there are constructive gems in this thread and others. There are a large number of people who would appreciate feedback or discourse from the developers, and still remain civil, but I get that its bloody hard to do with the way things can go around here. One thing I will say on this to everyone who doesn't have a problem with the ME etc, is well done. You can play your style of football with no dramas, other people can't. That might be tactics, but I think reading through the many pages of this thread there is a trend there. If one person calls you a monkey, you might think it odd. If a second calls you a monkey, you start to think. If a third calls you a monkey you buy shares in a banana plantation.

I hear you reference the two years thing. As I said, money is the driving factor in that they can't afford it and enough people might not buy it. I suppose that when they are looking to bring in huge sweeping changes they can reach out to the community at large. There are a lot of us who have played a hell of a lot of FM over the years, not just the most prominent ones. An NDA or two and some extensive testing by people outside the company and not just the genius level guys such as Cleon or Rashidi might have highlighted issues back in the summer giving them more time to get a polished game out of the door. A lot of other companies hold closed betas for games, not just open beta's. I don't know if SI do this, as I haven't really followed it too much to be honest. With the huge changes to training and tactic creation, as well as the implementation of new styles, it might have helped with some of the issues they are having to work on right now. Or at least given them a huge headstart into the issues. The pre release beta is good to an extent, but some people treat it as a free 2 weeks of playing rather than a beta so not enough feedback comes in. As i stated earlier, the current public beta idea is great and will hopefully help out massively going forwards.

On the negative side I am back to playing FM 18 as I can't manage the current ME on 19 .

[bleventozturk]

I am absolutely loving the ME at the moment, and it's been more than 3 years since I was able to say this

Through balls are definitely there by the way, it's just they are played when it is almost a sure thing. If not, the ball is typically played out to wider areas, which is the one thing that I am looking forward to see improved. There should be more attempts, and most of those attempts should be either intercepted by the defenders, or played too long and picked up by the keeper (I don't recall seeing the latter at all for example, which is something that happens in real life football quite often). 

I am not sure about the striker movement. There are times when my DLF(s) drops deep just as I want him to, so it's not like they never do. How often they do it seems to depend on how my overall system is, and how the opponent is defending. Isn't that normal though? If where your DLF is supposed to drop is too congested, I think it makes sense for him to stay up in some circumstances. I for one am seeing enough movement from my strikers. I am sure it can be improved, but it doesn't seem too bad imo at the moment.

Edited December 16, 2018 by bleventozturk

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Garrlor said:

Everyone wants different things, and I think SI do a good job of replicating most of what people want or are interested in. There are some outliers (such as the wailing and teeth gnashing over the German 3rd div, the biggest non issue of all time) but mostly people get what they want. Often we get what we don't really want too, with things such as Dynamics coming into play. However everything is tied in together and gets better most editions. Personally, I hated the team shape stuff (Fluid, Structured etc). It just did not mesh with my brain at all, but I worked through it and still managed to come up with some half decent tactics. I think the way they have taken the tactics creation side is amazing and a huge, huge leap in the right direction. It lets everyone understand a style so much better when you have roles suggested for you with instructions already baked in. You don't have to guess and you don't have to suffer. Pick your system to suit your players, and away you go.

As I alluded too earlier however, I feel that some of the systems and the change to the way tactics are made now may be why we are struggling with the match engine replicating certain styles. But it is down to SI to try and figure that out in a mountain of code. I think the only thing I want to hear from them regarding this is that they are looking to another patch to update the ME if they can to try and work it out. I am not interested in the breakdown of how, what and why so much as "guys, we hear you all, we will try and fix it". They took a huge step in the right direction by implementing the public beta, but with time pressures probably didn't get to implement half of what they wanted to do. A lot of the complaining on the forums here they can ignore anyway, but there are constructive gems in this thread and others. There are a large number of people who would appreciate feedback or discourse from the developers, and still remain civil, but I get that its bloody hard to do with the way things can go around here. One thing I will say on this to everyone who doesn't have a problem with the ME etc, is well done. You can play your style of football with no dramas, other people can't. That might be tactics, but I think reading through the many pages of this thread there is a trend there. If one person calls you a monkey, you might think it odd. If a second calls you a monkey, you start to think. If a third calls you a monkey you buy shares in a banana plantation.

I hear you reference the two years thing. As I said, money is the driving factor in that they can't afford it and enough people might not buy it. I suppose that when they are looking to bring in huge sweeping changes they can reach out to the community at large. There are a lot of us who have played a hell of a lot of FM over the years, not just the most prominent ones. An NDA or two and some extensive testing by people outside the company and not just the genius level guys such as Cleon or Rashidi might have highlighted issues back in the summer giving them more time to get a polished game out of the door. A lot of other companies hold closed betas for games, not just open beta's. I don't know if SI do this, as I haven't really followed it too much to be honest. With the huge changes to training and tactic creation, as well as the implementation of new styles, it might have helped with some of the issues they are having to work on right now. Or at least given them a huge headstart into the issues. The pre release beta is good to an extent, but some people treat it as a free 2 weeks of playing rather than a beta so not enough feedback comes in. As i stated earlier, the current public beta idea is great and will hopefully help out massively going forwards.

On the negative side I am back to playing FM 18 as I can't manage the current ME on 19 .

I'll pick up on the private testing because it's not often discussed There's a lot more people doing Nda testing than you think. And they do a lot more work than they ever get credit for. The public beta has been good, but it shouldn't overshadow what they do, as they test for much longer before and well after, what they do isn't just brilliant, it's fundamental, and they don't really get the public kudos because it's all behind an Nda. Again highlighting issues isn't the same as fixing them. 

[Garrlor]

40 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'll pick up on the private testing because it's not often discussed There's a lot more people doing Nda testing than you think. And they do a lot more work than they ever get credit for. The public beta has been good, but it shouldn't overshadow what they do, as they test for much longer before and well after, what they do isn't just brilliant, it's fundamental, and they don't really get the public kudos because it's all behind an Nda. Again highlighting issues isn't the same as fixing them.  

 

I'm not in it, I can't comment! But I like the fact that it's there. I am only commenting as a simple outsider looking in at something that needs a little love. Hell, when you compare it to one of my fave versions (FM08) the level of coding is just through the roof. I appreciate how much work goes into making this game and making it better and also how much testing goes in. I fully agree that highlighting issues isnt the same as fixing them, only the bods at SI can do that. But it is because of that I feel that something has to give in the release cylcle here. Year on year is pushing it so so hard, given the level of coding etc they have to do just to make the game work, never mind adding stuff in and replacing a billion different styles in the ME.

I guess its hard to play both ways. As a fan I want to support SI, as I have been doing for years. As a paying customer I want the best game I can get my hands on. It will get to a point where my wallet overides my fandom and I just carry on playing the versions I enjoy. I don't want that, as I don't want to be stuck in the footballing past, and I want SI to be sucessful and create amazing games that get us year on year.

[Phil930]

On 15/12/2018 at 17:32, Phil930 said:

The update coincided with the start of my second season (Chelsea).  Fixture list was not kind - Arsenal (A), Liverpool (H), Man Utd (A), so a little frustrated by those results like, but even through pre-season I noticed:

• Lower penalty success rate (as noted above)
• Goal keeper mistakes. Went all of last season without anything glaring, this time in 5 games twice he has dribbled out, been tackled by striker, and scored an empty goal.  I have since changed role to Sweeper Keeper Defend vs Support and seems better
• Freekicks - they go in, a lot
• Goals seem more spectacular, which is fun to watch

The above is all muddied by new signings and coaches etc, but was a perceived difference.

One more thing that is more evident - players needing a rest.  This is across human and AI teams.  They're all spent and its only Dec.

[timmy]

I find the new 19.2 much improved. More variety of types of goals, no longer do I have 3 players pressing the opposition and suddenly my AMC is scoring a lot more goals. 

[Novem9]

10 часов назад, Phil930 сказал:

One more thing that is more evident - players needing a rest.  This is across human and AI teams.  They're all spent and its only Dec.

Check your trainings. I need to rotate in FM19 less than ever and I like it!
New fine tune of traininings allows to keep conditions

[Seb Wassell]

15 hours ago, Phil930 said:

One more thing that is more evident - players needing a rest.  This is across human and AI teams.  They're all spent and its only Dec.

We're in December in reality and rotation has been rife the past couple of weeks in the Premier League/Championship. We've also had many players break down with injury. If you've any excessive examples please do post them in our bugs section, but I would argue this is mirroring reality well. As mentioned above, your training can be the key to overcoming jadedness.

[mandella]

19.2 is utter ridiculous. The number of goals from 16+ meteres is absurd.

[MrPompey]

On 12/12/2018 at 21:40, Mons said:

(b) SI employees can enjoy Christmas with their families. 

I agree with the sentiment here but many of us work for a living and the same applies so that's not a great argument. 

In general over the years major patches have been:

x.1 has been post release,

x.2 pre Xmas

x.3 after the Jan transfer window with data update.

The advantage of Steam (love it or loathe it)  is that the release process can be more fluid and allow fixes at any time and with minimal impact in process to the end user. For those old enough these "patches" had to be downloaded and unzipped in the past

The priority of an issue is always going to be subjective and it needs to be balanced with effort to investigate / resolve, potential regression elsewhere

I really didn't enjoy the ME for FM18. FM19 is better but yes there are challenges in some areas. 

Additionally a lot of the progress of the ME, and game in general has been driven by users detailing issues and suggestions so balanced feedback , bug reports and feature requests are very worthwhile

[BigV]

1 hour ago, Seb Wassell said:

We're in December in reality and rotation has been rife the past couple of weeks in the Premier League/Championship. We've also had many players break down with injury. If you've any excessive examples please do post them in our bugs section, but I would argue this is mirroring reality well. As mentioned above, your training can be the key to overcoming jadedness.

What about how it doesn't effect players game time issue? surely if rotation/injuries hamper playing time for players surely they wouldn't come up often asking for more game time especially when their status is first team or lower.

[westy8chimp]

3 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

We're in December in reality and rotation has been rife the past couple of weeks in the Premier League/Championship. We've also had many players break down with injury. If you've any excessive examples please do post them in our bugs section, but I would argue this is mirroring reality well. As mentioned above, your training can be the key to overcoming jadedness.

Agree. I think this is an improved area, but because it's a 'negative' shift towards reality (by which...not many players will be grateful for more injuries/fatigue despite its realism) it may be deemed as a bug or broken by a lot of users

I haven't played enough of FM19 yet to notice... Are the AI managers better equipped in terms of intelligence to rest jaded players now though? Or do they continue to plug the same players in game after game despite minor injuries and fatigue? 

[RandomGuy.]

On 16/12/2018 at 08:59, craiigman said:

Anyone noticed throw ins being pretty awful in general? I’m not talking about attacking or defending long throws.

More so that the ball seems to always gets thrown at head height (even when unmarked) which results in the player heading it out for a throw to the other team.

This is an issue on 2 levels. 1 why is that where the ball is thrown? 2. Why can a player not head the ball to another player when unmarked/try to control the ball.

This happens at all levels.

I just started up a save in French’s National 1 which is a lesser league. But had a phase of play with 5-6 throws where is was this over and over, a couple were duels for the ball, but even then why throw it to him and not the unmarked player.

Probaly won’t notice it unless on full/comprehensive but it’s really hard to watch at times.

I've never seen this once in the 8 seasons I've played on this year's save. 

I genuinely feel like I'm playing a different game sometimes. People seem to have issues with striker roles being identical, yet I'm finding them all acting differently. Had issues with goals from lofted balls over my defence, but that was a tactical issue. Don't see an unnerving amount of red cards, don't see a huge amount of direct free kick goals, don't see just one type of goal.

I don't have player mutinies when I sell someone, don't have the AI refusing to sign my players, don't have the AI making horrendous bids for my player.

I think I'm lucky though.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

IPeople seem to have issues with striker roles being identical, yet I'm finding them all acting differently. Had issues with goals from lofted balls over my defence, but that was a tactical issue. Don't see an unnerving amount of red cards, don't see a huge amount of direct free kick goals, don't see just one type of goal.

I don't have player mutinies when I sell someone, don't have the AI refusing to sign my players, don't have the AI making horrendous bids for my player.

 

Pretty much sums up my overall experience of things so far too. 

[shadster]

I'm on 2022/2023 season, and I'm enjoying playing this year's game. Tactics and training made it more fun. Sure there's improvements to be made on ME, but I'm enjoying that part of game a lot more than on previous versions.

Now the things I don't like, and make the experience less enjoyable. There's some things that come already from previous versions of FM that should be sorted out. I always play my first save in Portugal, and the value of players is something so unrealistic. I give some examples. I have a great young player, João Felix, valued at 34M €.. I sold Seferovic on first season, he is nothing special, his stats, his goals, assists, average rating are really poor, and his value is 30M€, on Burnley. And I have plenty of examples like that, like when I sold Samaris, not a bad player, but as soon as I sold him, his value went to 25M €, and that's just silly. Related to transfers, everytime transfer window opens, I keep receiving the exactly same offers, every day for the same players until transfer window closes. I know I have the option to decline all offers below a value, but it's annoying.. you want 30M € for Gedson Fernandes? No? And now, you want 30M for him? No? And now,you want 30M? Doesn't make sense... 
Finally, and this happened as well on FM 18, the results after a few seasons, become just silly. A lot of 9-1, 7-1, 6-4, 5-5, etc...  and specifically talking about Portugal, FM 19 is not well balanced, all seasons I played, Porto is almost unbeatable, my team (Benfica) as well.. Sporting always finishes miles away. Previous versions were way more balanced, all teams had good and bad seasons, like on real life. 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by shadster

[bleventozturk]

6 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

We're in December in reality and rotation has been rife the past couple of weeks in the Premier League/Championship. We've also had many players break down with injury. If you've any excessive examples please do post them in our bugs section, but I would argue this is mirroring reality well. As mentioned above, your training can be the key to overcoming jadedness.

Fully agree. I am not seeing any problem with this.