Red card for CPU makes them better

[Rockywhu]

It's happened far too much for me on this game.

CPU team gets a player sent off and it feels like my team never takes advantage , can't control the game after they had 2 players  sent off even.

I have often conceded a goal and lost which isn't right as soon as a red is shown to the CPU team.

Needs to be fixed come FM 20 and be more realistic.

I spoken too a few people who have said the same.

 

[Smurf]

Except this happens for me too since FM12.  Had a player sent off in the 23 minute and I won 5-0.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Smurf

[HUNT3R]

3 hours ago, Rockywhu said:

CPU team gets a player sent off and it feels like my team never takes advantage

You're the manager. It's your job to make sure your team takes advantage.

It's one of those myths that the other team suddenly becomes 'better'. How do they become better? There are always reasons for something happening. If they're a man short, they'll be compact and defensive. How are you reacting to that?

[sporadicsmiles]

The AI does not magically become better, you are not adapting to how the AI has changed its approach after a red card. Typically a team is going to be more defensive after they have lost a player. That means you have to approach breaking them down in a different way. Chances are they will also look to play on the break more rather than controlling the game. It changes the equation entirely when it comes to how to approach the game.

So as HUNT3R says, how are you changing to adapt to what the AI is now doing? The answer is probably not to become extremely offensive and push every single player forward. That is gifting the AI space to exploit on the break, and they are defending compact so you will not be able to just find space. You will have to create it. You should always be able to keep the ball against 10 men. The key is then to probe and keep the AI moving. This will tire their players out, and you should always be able to find a player in space.

4 hours ago, Smurf said:

Except this happens for me too since FM12.  Had a player sent off in the 23 minute and I won 5-0.

If you lose 5-0 to a team with 10 men for most of the match you are doing something drastically wrong in the way you play. There is no "boost" for the AI when they are down a man.

[ThunderCelt]

I agree with what has been said above.  A decent AI side down to ten men seems to counter attack very aggressively so I've learned not to throw men forward and play into their hands.  My normal approach is to go positive, short passing, slow tempo, and up the creativity/expression to keep possession while looking for holes.  I don't go all out unless it's late in the game or I'm against a significantly weaker side who are parking the bus and showing no inclination to counter.

[Svenc]

The AI also typically changes Formation.

Say, it starts with a 4-4-2.

You start with a 4-3-3.

After the sending off, the AI would Change to a 3-5-1 which may provide it an Edge in the midfield battle, depending on which. It is of note here that the AI is not coded to take specific Advantages of what you are doing. Neither any of its AI opponents. Therefore, in AI vs AI match-ups, I've actually seen the AI with the man Advantage over the red carded one throwing it's Advantage all off by making a Change itself at HT....

Edited September 6, 2019 by Svenc

[FMExperiment]

I said this in another topic, yes it is 100% ********. If I go a man down and play 1 up front I'll typically win if I'm the stronger team. I hate it when I'm losing 1-0 and the AI gets a man sent off, I'll go very attacking and often go 20mins without a highlight. It's really annoying. I'm just saying the ME certainly does not reflect the 1 man advantage as it should.

[FMExperiment]

5 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

The AI does not magically become better, you are not adapting to how the AI has changed its approach after a red card. Typically a team is going to be more defensive after they have lost a player. That means you have to approach breaking them down in a different way. Chances are they will also look to play on the break more rather than controlling the game. It changes the equation entirely when it comes to how to approach the game.

So as HUNT3R says, how are you changing to adapt to what the AI is now doing? The answer is probably not to become extremely offensive and push every single player forward. That is gifting the AI space to exploit on the break, and they are defending compact so you will not be able to just find space. You will have to create it. You should always be able to keep the ball against 10 men. The key is then to probe and keep the AI moving. This will tire their players out, and you should always be able to find a player in space.

If you lose 5-0 to a team with 10 men for most of the match you are doing something drastically wrong in the way you play. There is no "boost" for the AI when they are down a man.

I think some times people give the ME more credit than it's due. I mean in this iteration simply employing any kind of high line/hard tackling gegenpress tactic will yield fantastic results and need never be altered or changed (much to the distress of your assman who thinks we're woefully unprepared tactically), so it's a little funny that when the AI goes down to 10 men all of a sudden you have to play tinkerman, it's also funnier that it's harder to beat 10 men than it is 11 

[autohoratio]

6 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

You should always be able to keep the ball against 10 men.

In theory, yes, but play against very low-level opposition and a player with 1-3 in tackling can win 12 tackles per game (or an AML/R with 4 tackling can make 21 tackles in a game), then because the AI play a low block and just pass it around their defence, they can keep the ball very easily. 

[wearesporting]

4 hours ago, FMExperiment said:

I said this in another topic, yes it is 100% ********. If I go a man down and play 1 up front I'll typically win if I'm the stronger team. I hate it when I'm losing 1-0 and the AI gets a man sent off, I'll go very attacking and often go 20mins without a highlight. It's really annoying. I'm just saying the ME certainly does not reflect the 1 man advantage as it should.

You go attacking? In what way. You're playing into a brick wall possibly. There are no highlights because it's them blocking everything  you do before you even have a chance to do it. 

[santy001]

Once a team goes a man down I tend to try and make a little more space for them to push forward and drop my team off a bit but with a quick counter set-up. 

It becomes much easier if they do over-extend with a man down. 

[Svenc]

If you wanted to "test" how much of an Impact a sending off in General has, you'd had to do that against another human Player -- and be it yourself. It's only this way that you can rule out the AI's Impact, which is typically a heavily defensive one. There's never been anything inside the "ME" itself that makes sides down to 10 harder to beat. Inside the ME, that's physically, visibly always been a player less somewhere. As of the AI, it's typically an attacking Player less, as the AI adapts, oft by changing Formation and/or making a sub. That's one Player a) less to hold up the ball and b) put pressure on Players deeper on the pitch. That is, for the AI receiving that sending off.

However, likewise, space available may not be automatically exploited just by itself. On the defensive end, Things tend to get more robust, as the AI typically makes a defensive switch (defensive AI imo has Always been too extremely defensive too readily). Therefore it is Pretty Logical it may be harder to score from then on. This goes doubly so if your perception of the game is that it's too "easy" to pack numbers behind the ball, sit Deep, and successfully frustrate in General, as that's what the AI may do from the sending off. There may additionally be an Argument made how well the game generally simulates Exhaustion -- that's one Player less for a Team to cover the same amount of space. My perception of Football in General that it isn't hard to defend with ten men. It's however much harder to balance that out with some attacking oomph left. Viable Sources left may be counter attacks and set pieces etc.; and if the attacking Team struggles to break down the ten man defense, a loss is still well on the Cards.
 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Svenc

[FrazT]

The temptation when the opponents go a man down is to go all out attack and that just causes them to shut up shop and defend in numbers and sometimes catch you on the counter.  Often the best plan is for your team to be more conservative and allow them to come at you, but hit them quickly on the break and this will regulalrly be more successful.

[Svenc]

56 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Often the best plan is for your team to be more conservative and allow them to come at you, but hit them quickly on the break and this will regulalrly be more successful.

Provided they still push numbers forward, that is…. This imo is important to highlight as to FM in particular, as the AI traditionally has that Habit of sticking the entire backline plus at least a central mid behind the ball and keeping them there. That's half a Team+. The only Occasion you may catch them on any break is when they push numbers Forward in a counter themselves, or have finally pushed some men Forward during a set piece.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Svenc

[thehig2]

What do you when they get there man sent off ? 

Do you look at what there new shape is and try to exploit the extra man ? 

Going gung ho won't work because most teams with ten men will sit back and look to counter attack.

Often I pack the midfield when they have a man sent off to control the game and keep the ball.

[JaseMcnotty]

I'm gonna necro this thread.. it's still the same in FM24. I've been aware of the red card = better AI for years and years and I've tried everything to combat it. Formation changes, attacking mentality changes (both ways), shouts of all flavours. I've even taken advantage of it occasionally myself... game is level, I lose a man, don't change anything significantly and win the match.

Long story short, nothing works. It's bollocks that losing a man can't be reliably exploited.. actually the opposite... it's damn hard to even maintain parity!

If you go a man down IRL, you don't expect to outscore the opponent (which happens regularly in FM). Please figure out why this happens SI.. it's not a rare occurrence and needs addressing.

 

[themadsheep2001]

Theres nothing to for SI to figure out. It wasnt true 5 years ago and it isnt true now. Please dont necro long dead threads. Worth popping into the tactical forum, make sure to put some detail into how you play for others to help