Youth intake in FM20

[KlaaZ]

Ajax does have a world class youth setup. But no, they do not produce a wonderkid every year. If you look at their outgoing transfers from the past six years, the only three players that have that potential are De Ligt, Kluivert and De Jong. The first two have yet to prove themselves at the highest level (and De Ligt is having his fair share of adapting at Juve), and Frenkie wasn't even produced by the Ajax academy. 

And for the record, if you already have a great team, any youth player rated 3-4 stars has the potential to be as good as  your current players. So I think you're very much exaggerating.

[Gross_Ballon]

On 18/11/2019 at 16:16, metallimuse said:

You little ledge! I had not found that. I’d gone to staff responsibilities but it had always been on ‘general’ and I’d glossed over the contracts and advice sections next to it.

Thank you so much! 

This is what community is all about <3 

[Gee_Simpson]

6 hours ago, Bakiano said:

I woudn't rate 3.5 of PA a potential solid future players, and especially the fact that I am managing Ajax, who has amongst the best youth recruitment in Europe.

 

They have every year at least one WONDERKID who has at least 4.5 PA. 

 

And in my save, four yearly youth intake and I dont have one player who are in my first team or at least he has future.

 

This is the problem.

 

 

That wouldnt be a problem if I managed some average club in Lithuania.

I don't think you realise the star rating is relative to the club you're at. A 3.5 star prospect will be a good first team player for you. 

[toon army 06]

For some reason my under 18's manager is telling me about the Youth intake, rather than my HOYD. Anyone else having this problem? Does this mean he's basically doing the HOYD job?

[Bigpole]

3 hours ago, toon army 06 said:

For some reason my under 18's manager is telling me about the Youth intake, rather than my HOYD. Anyone else having this problem? Does this mean he's basically doing the HOYD job?

Staff-> Responsibilities-> Staff-> Advice and Reports->Provides youth development information (change it to your hoyd)

[krlenjushka]

On 14/11/2019 at 18:49, Seb Wassell said:

Not outside of the exceptions. Quality of your youth intake is dictated by the factors listed above.

What about generated players at the start of the game using "add players to playable teams" option.

I tested this and it seems club reputation is not important at all. Club with 500 and 5000 have similar CA generated players.

[Seb Wassell]

23 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

What about generated players at the start of the game using "add players to playable teams" option.

I tested this and it seems club reputation is not important at all. Club with 500 and 5000 have similar CA generated players.

That works a little bit differently. Whilst they are "newgens" they are not designed to work like the Youth Intake, they are designed to fill out squads.

[krlenjushka]

1 minute ago, Seb Wassell said:

That works a little bit differently. Whilst they are "newgens" they are not designed to work like the Youth Intake, they are designed to fill out squads.

Is there any way we can control players quality on specific team or at specific level of competition?

[Seb Wassell]

22 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

Is there any way we can control players quality on specific team or at specific level of competition?

Not from the game setup page I do not believe. Loading all players from that nation/competition (where the club is based) should help balance.

[krlenjushka]

6 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Not from the game setup page I do not believe. Loading all players from that nation/competition (where the club is based) should help balance.

Thanks for your answer. I tested yesterday all options related to youth setup. It seems youth training have big impact on this but its not good enough. I need to set it very high in order to get players with some average CA.

After that i created "empty" players- just added names, nation and CA/PA- game added everything else. This is good way to control this. I think i should add this to future requests - some better control of generated players quality in empty clubs. Its important for people who plays LLM.

Thanks again! 

[Gary_Parker]

Great thread and a lot of good information. Quick question, noticed in the in game editor that some clubs have -1 for their youth recruitment and junior coaching rating, what exactly does this do and how does it impact the teams? The value states in editor that it must be between 1 and 20

[dean66683]

Youth intake is absolutly terrible. Im almost 20 seasons in and for the most part ive had the best coaches, best head of youth dev, best facilities and plenty of affiliate link ups to swap youth etc and still I have not had 1 good enough for my 1st team squad.

[Andy1979]

If you have a world class squad a 2-5 star or 3 star player can have high potential. 

[Bigpole]

9 hours ago, dean66683 said:

Youth intake is absolutly terrible. Im almost 20 seasons in and for the most part ive had the best coaches, best head of youth dev, best facilities and plenty of affiliate link ups to swap youth etc and still I have not had 1 good enough for my 1st team squad.

I don't think that's possible because 3-star players are first team players. That's the first thing.

Second thing, have you kept all these newgens long enough to see if they actually can play in your squad and if they playing well? I doubt it, but I'll wait for your answer.

[Legendary Manager]

I get at least 1 player each year. Some are only 1.5 stars but develop into 4 star players under me

 

 

 

 

[dean66683]

13 hours ago, Bigpole said:

I don't think that's possible because 3-star players are first team players. That's the first thing.

Second thing, have you kept all these newgens long enough to see if they actually can play in your squad and if they playing well? I doubt it, but I'll wait for your answer.

TBF i basically almost have had the (minumum) best 22 players in my 1st team for last 15 years. My youth produce's  1x player with 5* (black) everyother year and 1 upto 4*. I keep most regens for 2 full seasons minimum. a couple turn out to be average prem players at best. Can't remember last time 1 became good enough to stay in my squad. Another big issue is that half the time these newgens don't fit my formation either. I currently have over 125 players classed as club home grown in my game because i buy and nurture youth alot. Just non that my academy bring through. I can just only assume my team is the exception to the rule. The fact i can pretty much hoover up all talent when they appear and buy those i miss does make bringing through academy players much much less liekly.

[herne79]

23 hours ago, dean66683 said:

Youth intake is absolutly terrible

 

49 minutes ago, dean66683 said:

My youth produce's  1x player with 5* (black) everyother year and 1 upto 4*. I keep most regens for 2 full seasons minimum. a couple turn out to be average prem players at best.

I must be missing something here or not understanding properly.  1 x 5* and 4* players every other year is a fantastic return.  Why are you saying it's terrible?  If you're only keeping them for 2 seasons and they only turn out average, isn't that more to do with your development and training of those players than a "terrible" youth intake?

[Bigpole]

55 minutes ago, dean66683 said:

My youth produce's  1x player with 5* (black) everyother year and 1 upto 4*. I keep most regens for 2 full seasons minimum. a couple turn out to be average prem players at best.

Wtf? How on earth this is terrible? If an average premier league player every other year is not good enough for you, I have more bad news. Even the best clubs don't have good intakes (if there's such thing) every other year. 

What I suggest for you buddy is to look at Liverpool's 3 star players at the start of the season. You have milner, origi, lallana. And if having that sort of players are not enough for your team - I suggest checking how many fully developed homegrown club players premier league teams have. 

And one last thing that you probably know but I have to mention nevertheless. STARS ARE IN RELATION TO YOUR SQUAD (which is full of superstars I suppose) so you can't possibly have wonderkids every year. And remember that player can develop even when he's 25-26. And if they are 'turning out' to be average - you're not developing them good enough unfortunately.

[dean66683]

I can only assume we have different opinions on what type of quality should be in your 1st team squad. A youth may very well be 5* rating and may even reach that potential, but that doesnt mean that they are good enough. For example you may have a 5* winger, but if he has 10 pace and acceleration and 10 flair or creativity but top stats on everything else, then he's of no use. The *'s mean nothing if the stats dont suit there position and your way of playing. i have had worldclass cb's, but their jumping and heading are poor. I do try n retrain some so their attributes are better suited for a different position. i'd happily load up my saved game if i knew how and where.

[FRANCHIS392]

1 hour ago, Bigpole said:

Wtf? How on earth this is terrible? If an average premier league player every other year is not good enough for you, I have more bad news. Even the best clubs don't have good intakes (if there's such thing) every other year. 

What I suggest for you buddy is to look at Liverpool's 3 star players at the start of the season. You have milner, origi, lallana. And if having that sort of players are not enough for your team - I suggest checking how many fully developed homegrown club players premier league teams have. 

And one last thing that you probably know but I have to mention nevertheless. STARS ARE IN RELATION TO YOUR SQUAD (which is full of superstars I suppose) so you can't possibly have wonderkids every year. And remember that player can develop even when he's 25-26. And if they are 'turning out' to be average - you're not developing them good enough unfortunately.

i was of the belief that outfield players had till 24 to reach their potential

[Bigpole]

7 minutes ago, FRANCHIS392 said:

i was of the belief that outfield players had till 24 to reach their potential

All players are developing their mental attributes (which are more or less important depends on position) so they have some room left in terms of development (in 60-70% cases I believe).

44 minutes ago, dean66683 said:

I can only assume we have different opinions on what type of quality should be in your 1st team squad. A youth may very well be 5* rating and may even reach that potential, but that doesnt mean that they are good enough. For example you may have a 5* winger, but if he has 10 pace and acceleration and 10 flair or creativity but top stats on everything else, then he's of no use. The *'s mean nothing if the stats dont suit there position and your way of playing. i have had worldclass cb's, but their jumping and heading are poor. I do try n retrain some so their attributes are better suited for a different position. i'd happily load up my saved game if i knew how and where.

So that's why it's crucial to have good coaches and especially good hoyd who can influence your youth a bit. Physical attributes are developing 'semi-automatically' so they are not most important. You get the intake, you check what stats are around 10-12 and tailor development for position/role you want. 

[herne79]

1 hour ago, dean66683 said:

I can only assume we have different opinions on what type of quality should be in your 1st team squad. A youth may very well be 5* rating and may even reach that potential, but that doesnt mean that they are good enough. For example you may have a 5* winger, but if he has 10 pace and acceleration and 10 flair or creativity but top stats on everything else, then he's of no use. The *'s mean nothing if the stats dont suit there position and your way of playing. i have had worldclass cb's, but their jumping and heading are poor. I do try n retrain some so their attributes are better suited for a different position. i'd happily load up my saved game if i knew how and where.

Are you really binning 16/17/18 year olds with 5* star potential just because their Pace (for example) is 10?  If you are then you really need to reassess how you are developing your players because you are missing out on an awful lot of opportunities.

[dean66683]

34 minutes ago, Bigpole said:

All players are developing their mental attributes (which are more or less important depends on position) so they have some room left in terms of development (in 60-70% cases I believe).

So that's why it's crucial to have good coaches and especially good hoyd who can influence your youth a bit. Physical attributes are developing 'semi-automatically' so they are not most important. You get the intake, you check what stats are around 10-12 and tailor development for position/role you want. 

I have the best coaches in every department and best hoyd you can get, they also have light workload. tbf the standard for my 1st team squad is probably just too high. the youth probably would be decent for most other teams. It's just frustrating that i would need a 'once in a generation' player to make it, and i don't get any, or if i did have any they was in wrong position or poor stats in an important area. I have about 3 players ive signed that could play anywhere in a 1st 11 (minus gk).

'Are you really binning 16/17/18 year olds with 5* star potential just because their Pace (for example) is 10?  If you are then you really need to reassess how you are developing your players because you are missing out on an awful lot of opportunities'.

what good is a slow winger? or a striker with poor finishing. they may be ok for average teams but not top teams. i'll just carry on swiping the best from other teams. 24/25 are average age of my teams, always looking to youth. thats why i have over a billion£ in the bank and 1.5billion in transfer funds. the youth i get through never matches up with my team.after 20 years in the game i would have loved to have had 1 player comeinto 1st 11 constantly. admitedly there has been maybe 2 who could have, but they didnt suit the team. below is the best youth ive had in years. tbf abbott and ahmed have a good a chance as any youth ive had through.

Edited July 11, 2020 by dean66683

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, dean66683 said:

but if he has 10 pace and acceleration and 10 flair or creativity but top stats on everything else, then he's of no use

Even if you don't want to use him as a winger, you can retrain players. And you can shape them from the start to fit wherever you can use that player. If he doesn't have the pace as a winger, for you, make him a creative central player? Or a goal scoring one? Make him a forward? Make him of use to you. They're young and there's still plenty of time to shape a player.

[dean66683]

compared to my u23 though, they aint that special. then compare to 1st team squad.

[dean66683]

12 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Even if you don't want to use him as a winger, you can retrain players. And you can shape them from the start to fit wherever you can use that player. If he doesn't have the pace as a winger, for you, make him a creative central player? Or a goal scoring one? Make him a forward? Make him of use to you. They're young and there's still plenty of time to shape a player.

As stated in a previouse reply, i do do that, or try to. my 11st team lb is a converted winger. there is maybe only 1 or 2 players who make it into u23 side, but that's always as best the develope. every single attribute that goes towards youth, i have the best of, training fac, coaches, affiliates, hoyd. just like my stadium, seem to be set at a limit that it can't go past. for example maybe my club can only ever produce max players of4* but tottenham can at there best produce 5*?

Edited July 11, 2020 by dean66683

[dean66683]

my current u18 and evaluation of future.

[Bigpole]

You have clearly the best players in the world, literally 5/5 stars (at Chelsea, one of the biggest and best clubs in the world) and you expect your youth to be as good as them? Even though you have 5 bloody wonderkids in your u19. 

If you still don't see the issue here, I strongly recommend to check Chelsea u19 squads from previous years to see how many WONDERKIDS come through their youth ranks.

And I get your point (I have best facilities and youth coaching = I should have best youth generated for me), but the football world doesn't work like that unfortunately. 

[dean66683]

Bigpole

•  
• i appreciate your feed back. 5 wonderkids in my u18? i barely have 5 players? btw melquedies is 26, i put him under 18 to convince him to move clubs. by the feed back it seem's my standards/hopes are to high.

[herne79]

59 minutes ago, dean66683 said:

what good is a slow winger? or a striker with poor finishing. they may be ok for average teams but not top teams.

I'd agree if you were talking about senior players.  But we're talking about youth players here, 16/17/18 year olds with massive 4 or 5 star potential - potential to be elite players - who you are binning just because at that age they happen to have 10 Pace (for example).

If you showed a little more patience and developed them effectively over a longer period of time (ie., more than the 2 years or so you currently give them) you'd see results.

I'd also suggest that going by the screen shots, you aren't mentoring them effectively either.  Players with good Determination, Ambition and Professionalism tend to train harder and develop better than the type of players you have posted above.  You can have the best facilities and coaches in the world, but if your players are "Unambitious" with low Determination you're not giving them the right environment to develop properly.

The game isn't at fault here.  You are getting youth players with fantastic potential through your annual intake and you are not developing them effectively.  Head over to the Tactics & Training forum and read some of the pinned threads at the top of it which cover Mentoring and Training in detail.

[dean66683]

herne79

i am an impatient git .

[Deisler26]

4 hours ago, dean66683 said:

what good is a striker with poor finishing?.

[dean66683]

44 minutes ago, Deisler26 said:

am i missing somthing, some point?

[Deisler26]

He wasn't this good at 16/17/18 and his finishing was 8

[dean66683]

so he's finishing has improved by 2 since he was 16? . (he does have good heading and i'm sure he could do a job like emile heskey did, but heskey did'nt play for a club that challenge for the top honours every year...) would be good for a team that relies on set pieces to win. I see your point, all be it not a very good one.

6 minutes ago, Deisler26 said:

He wasn't this good at 16/17/18 and his finishing was 8

 

[Miek]

I've been playing a youth challenge save since the game came out and played over 25 seasons. The youth intake and development is literally my bread and butter.
Two things that I would like some insight on from other youth development addicts:

1) I've produced 1 decent RB and LB in the last decade. It seems to be the one blind spot my HoF has. Anything I'm missing here? Just a rare coincidence?
MY HoF prefers the narrow 4-3-3 (park the bus style) and has a Fairly determined personality. He's also the best HoF I can sign with my current stature. Should I replace him with a less talented HoF to maybe generate more wingbacks?

2) When loaning out your 18 year olds, is it better to have them play for a top team in League 2 or bottom team in League 1. The better your youngsters perform the better they develop but the level on which they perform is also important. What would be more important? The performance or the level? I was also thinking of maybe sending my strikers to the top L2 team and my defenders to the bottom L1 team.

 

[The Gold Guard]

1 hour ago, Miek said:

I've been playing a youth challenge save since the game came out and played over 25 seasons. The youth intake and development is literally my bread and butter.
Two things that I would like some insight on from other youth development addicts:

1) I've produced 1 decent RB and LB in the last decade. It seems to be the one blind spot my HoF has. Anything I'm missing here? Just a rare coincidence?
MY HoF prefers the narrow 4-3-3 (park the bus style) and has a Fairly determined personality. He's also the best HoF I can sign with my current stature. Should I replace him with a less talented HoF to maybe generate more wingbacks?

2) When loaning out your 18 year olds, is it better to have them play for a top team in League 2 or bottom team in League 1. The better your youngsters perform the better they develop but the level on which they perform is also important. What would be more important? The performance or the level? I was also thinking of maybe sending my strikers to the top L2 team and my defenders to the bottom L1 team.

 

1) Personality and Formation/Tactics always outweighs actual ability for me personally. I do a Youth Academy Challenge with OFK Beograd and I found stooping lower and getting someone who matches my style provides better long term squad stability.

 

2) I ensure that my Loan Manager rejects anything below Regular Starter status for youth contracts and Important Player for fringe first teamers. Then I work with whoever has the best offer to provide first team football. I tend to let an 18 year old boss in a league 2 tiers below with a club that pushes for promotion and extend the deal for a year of they achieve that. When they are 19 I look for a deal that is either tier below domestically or same division status or one below continentally with the same squad status conditions.

 

Hope that helps, it is mostly circumstantial but I dont have problems dropping them down a couple divisions as long as the next year they climb up. I aim for them to be amongst the first team around their end of teenagehood. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by The Gold Guard

[enigmatic]

23 hours ago, Miek said:

1) I've produced 1 decent RB and LB in the last decade. It seems to be the one blind spot my HoF has. Anything I'm missing here? Just a rare coincidence?
MY HoF prefers the narrow 4-3-3 (park the bus style) and has a Fairly determined personality. He's also the best HoF I can sign with my current stature. Should I replace him with a less talented HoF to maybe generate more wingbacks?

A lot of this is randomness and coincidence, but FM's tendency to produce very defensive starting attributes in FBs doesn't help.  If you like a more technical fullback, retraining a midfielder with decent crossing and tackling is probably a good bet; young players retrain very quickly in the current version.

 

Changing your HoF isn't going to do much

 

[hercules rockafeller]

When managing a Scottish team I get exclusively Scottish players, no matter what I do. I added a bunch of affiliate clubs from different countries and this works when I try it with an English club and I get regens from all different nations. But with a Scottish team (even moved to the English league) I only get Scots, and almost exclusively from the local area.

Tried using the editor to change all kinds of factors but it still happens.... bug or feature? 

[gazzaon]

On 26/07/2020 at 19:45, hercules rockafeller said:

When managing a Scottish team I get exclusively Scottish players, no matter what I do. I added a bunch of affiliate clubs from different countries and this works when I try it with an English club and I get regens from all different nations. But with a Scottish team (even moved to the English league) I only get Scots, and almost exclusively from the local area.

Tried using the editor to change all kinds of factors but it still happens.... bug or feature? 

I regularly play as Hearts and have updated my database to the point of being almost OCD about it, so when Hearts announced partnerships with Forza FC and Albion Hurricanes in the USA, I created these teams as institution teams and set them up as affiliates, set to sharing youth training with Hearts as the main team.  In my latest save I also have St Patricks Athletic as an affiliate of the same type, and I have had 2 youth intakes so far which have included 2 Americans from Forza and 2 Irish lads from St Pats.  I have also had a couple of random dual nationalities in my intakes too (Kosovo/Scottish & Australian/Scottish).  I have also noticed that sometimes the greyed out squad fillers for the under 18s have random nationalities too.  Interesting subject, but can definitely confirm youths are not always locals, although they do tend to be predominantly Edinburgh/Fife for me.

[resurectedja]

I was just wondering if there is any way to influence the consistency, important matches and the injury proneness of your intake?