Licensing - Clamp Down On Graphics

[RBKalle]

58 minuti fa, gavinski33 ha scritto:

https://news.sky.com/story/liverpool-fc-fail-in-attempt-to-get-their-name-made-a-trademark-11820124

"sellers of counterfeit goods..."

But what if, as a fan, I decide to purchase a £5 white t-shirt and get the local t-shirts shop to print a LFC badge on it? TECHNICALLY the club could demand me to either pay them or destroy the "counterfeit" shirt, even though I'm not making any profit from it. And, of course, they'd pressure shops to not offer said service anymore to prevent people from exploiting it for IP violation purposes, despite those not being made for profit.

Of course the t-shirts shop can't mass produce and SELL those fake LFC shirts, but is it fair, or even legal, to ask them to stop offering t-shirt printing service or to own shirt-printing tools because "someone" could use them to create IP-breaching merch for personal use?

In our case, SI are the clothes shop. They sell t-shirts, but what the customers do with said shirts isn't their problem. And surely they can't be forced to research "print-resisting fabric" [ie. unmoddable graphics] in order to dissuade potential misuse.
FM Scout and co are the print store. They offer perfectly legal options, but some could come in with questionable requests. They can indeed be forced not to print specific images or slogans. But those who want that done will find other ways to get their thing done.

I still fail to see why all that is even a thing... Corporate greed is getting worse, alongside the lack of foresight in going against a marginal, yet beloved, franchise.

P.S. BTW, fake football shirts have been a thing for decades, ranging from cotton lookalikes (available in every big city) to cheapass old-school fakes with every detail sloppily printed into the fabric (often off-scale or at the wrong angle) to the more recent Asian replicas that are 99% identical to the real deal (likely because they all come from the same factories in South-East Asia...).
Then again, few clubs have reacted in a positive way. Relatively cheap licensed replicas exist, usually without the manufacturer logo, and that has sort of slowed down the proliferation of fake shirts stalls in front of the stadium in some countries.

Still, fake shirts are still better value for money and aren't going away anytime soon, despite brands and clubs having a way to cripple the market. By lowering their ludicrous prices, of course.

Edited November 12, 2019 by RBKalle

[oblongata21]

Typical!

Surely the creaters of the logo, face and kit packs arent profiting financially from these add-ons, so i dont understand why people would be getting upset with this.

If anything, its free advertising

[grade]

14 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

"sellers of counterfeit goods..."

But what if, as a fan, I decide to purchase a £5 white t-shirt and get the local t-shirts shop to print a LFC badge on it? TECHNICALLY the club could demand me to either pay them or destroy the "counterfeit" shirt, even though I'm not making any profit from it. And, of course, they'd pressure shops to not offer said service anymore to prevent people from exploiting it for IP violation purposes, despite those not being made for profit.

Of course the t-shirts shop can't mass produce and SELL those fake LFC shirts, but is it fair, or even legal, to ask them to stop offering t-shirt printing service or to own shirt-printing tools because "someone" could use them to create IP-breaching merch for personal use?

In our case, SI are the clothes shop. They sell t-shirts, but what the customers do with said shirts isn't their problem. And surely they can't be forced to research "print-resisting fabric" [ie. unmoddable graphics] in order to dissuade potential misuse.
FM Scout and co are the print store. They offer perfectly legal options, but some could come in with questionable requests. They can indeed be forced not to print specific images or slogans. But those who want that done will find other ways to get their thing done.

I still fail to see why all that is even a thing... Corporate greed is getting worse, alongside the lack of foresight in going against a marginal, yet beloved, franchise.

P.S. BTW, fake football shirts have been a thing for decades, ranging from cotton lookalikes (available in every big city) to cheapass old-school fakes with every detail sloppily printed into the fabric (often off-scale or at the wrong angle) to the more recent Asian replicas that are 99% identical to the real deal (likely because they all come from the same factories in South-East Asia...).
Then again, few clubs have reacted in a positive way. Relatively cheap licensed replicas exist, usually without the manufacturer logo, and that has sort of slowed down the proliferation of fake shirts stalls in front of the stadium in some countries.

Still, fake shirts are still better value for money and aren't going away anytime soon, despite brands and clubs having a way to cripple the market. By lowering their ludicrous prices, of course.

This corporations and brands are bit thick on the head.

My club Adidas sell their official shirt for 90 euros. The club sell without the Adidas logo for 20 euros, but the quality of it is bit to be desired. You can buy in the Asia online stores for little as 5 euros, the quality is about the same of those unofficial that my club sells.

[Stripeyfox2011]

It seems ridiculous to me that the game isn't allowed to use the name "Juventus" for example. I mean, I just used it there and I didn't ask permission to say Juventus. 

 

Regarding player pics and badges etc, they're nice to have but not a deal breaker for me. But if I can't have them I'd rather have a skin which didn't have badges or pics at all, rather than the generated ones or the blank face. 

[kevhamster]

30 minutes ago, Stripeyfox2011 said:

It seems ridiculous to me that the game isn't allowed to use the name "Juventus" for example. I mean, I just used it there and I didn't ask permission to say Juventus. 

 

Regarding player pics and badges etc, they're nice to have but not a deal breaker for me. But if I can't have them I'd rather have a skin which didn't have badges or pics at all, rather than the generated ones or the blank face. 

That's an incredibly simplied view of the complexities of trademark and intellectual property.  Anybody can say, or even type Juventus.

However, if anybody, for example a publisher of a popular football-based video game, wishes to use trademarked items, for example club kits, logos and in some cases the actual club name etc for commercial use in their product, then they have to pay the relevant parties to licence such use.

Edited November 12, 2019 by kevhamster

[grade]

8 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

That's an incredibly simplied view of the complexities of trademark and intellectual property.  Anybody can say, or even type Juventus.

However, if anybody, for example a publisher of a popular football-based video game, wishes to use trademarked items, for example club kits, logos and in some cases the actual club name etc for commercial use in their product, then they have to pay the relevant parties to licence such use.

This why, an editor is must have feature.

Sure, you can say they can pressure Si to remove that ability to edit clubs names, but that will blow in the faces of clubs.

[Bothan Spy]

Where will they draw the line? Will they insist that we can't edit or transfer players from their clubs as it will impact on their trademark?

[grade]

16 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

Where will they draw the line? Will they insist that we can't edit or transfer players from their clubs as it will impact on their trademark?

That will be another dimension, since it won't affect just FM, it will also affect any football games like FIFA and PES.

[Minuy600]

Meanwhile I really don't care about the lack of real logos and am happy to play the game with the iconic fake ones. It's the league rules and correct clubs that matter for me in the end, and so far nothing seems to be pointing at a problem for those two things.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Minuy600

[Harrymcintyre]

I don’t think I’ve ever played with logos and face packs and stuff 

[Minuy600]

7 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

I don’t think I’ve ever played with logos and face packs and stuff 

For some reason playing with them feels boring in a way. That and inconsistensies within a logopack, especially outdated logos, make me annoyed. Just don't wanna pull up with it.

[Zeonflux]

7 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

It's nothing really to do with SI. They know it happens, but don't condone it or tell people how to do it or that they should do it - they keep an arm's length from talk about logo or face packs.

The people doing the threatening of legal action, and the only people who could comment on their specific motivations, would be the rightsholders (football clubs, competition organisers, etc), and they're likely only going to say "We are ensuring that our intellectual property rights are being respected by raising concerns to websites and individuals who appear to be in breach of relevant intellectual property law and giving them the opportunity to rectify their breach without the need to take further legal action."

I realise this has nothing to do with SI, I was questioning

A. Whether or not they themselves had been approached on the subject.

B. If they had made a statement regarding what the ongoing issue was actually about other than the slightly vague statement that some of the sites hosting the face packs and name changes had been contacted about taking them down

[Archibalduk]

8 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Happy to be corrected, but isn't the fair dealing law / policy only applied if someone, or a company is making a monetary gain from it? As far as I am aware, these FM fan sites don;t charge for their logos, facepacks and kits? Appreciate that the clubs logos and players faces are probably licenced somewhere, but no one is making money from it. 

No, fair dealing is using copyrighted material (and not trade marked material) for research, review/critique or news reporting purposes. None of these apply here.

 

8 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

There is no "fair use" clause in UK copyright law, just FYI. There's "fair dealing", which is similar, but only applies for things such as using a copyrighted work for research purposes, news or critique, etc, even use in the manner us individuals use it wouldn't actually be covered by "fair dealing" in the UK, and so would still be a breach of copyright law (and that's ignoring that trademark law is different to copyright law, and doesn't share the same limited "fair use" exemptions. It's just that it wouldn't be economically or practically viable for the rightsholders to go after the individuals, which is why they go for the sites hosting the images instead.

 

This is it - fair dealing doesn't apply to trade marks. Team names and logos are generally trade marked. Copyright doesn't extend to names such as Manchester United. It is questionable whether a logo might attract copyright as it depends on how original the logo is. If you search the UK or EU trade mark registries you will invariably find the team/league name and logos registered.

IIRC old PES fan sites were stung by certain teams/leagues asking them to remove their trade marked material. I seem to recall they were pretty even handed in their request - i.e. they understood nobody was making money/were just fans and wouldn't make a deal of it provided it was promptly removed.

TBH I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked by SI.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, Archibalduk said:

TBH I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked by SI.

This is the most surprising part.

On the monetary gain thing...these sites must be getting a fair bit of traffic and downloads from hosting these alone.  They'll presumably have advertising on their sites.  Surely an argument that they are profiting from hosting the files, even though not directly.  Obviously not the same though.  I vaguely remember someone charging for something FM related that was usually free, perhaps logos and kits actually.  That was set upon very, very quickly if I recall correctly.

[bigmattb28]

2 hours ago, Archibalduk said:

TBH I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked by SI.

Why would they shut it down, it's not breaking rules it's a genuine topic of conversation

[99]

The type of case we can say, it's not easy, but it's simple. The entire problem can be resumed to money. They are loosing money, or saw  they could milk a bit more, so they try. There was a time where blockbusters also tried to save their movie rentals business. I just have an hard time understanding how can all these people not understand the benefits of having their names and logos as spread as possible, being seen and played with by millions.

Anyway, as long as sortitoutsi keeps being what they are, doing what they do, having what they have... I'm good. That's my only source for years and happily having a premium account there. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by 99

[Gross_Ballon]

Surely SI can have the type of lawyers to look into this. go through it all ovb going to cost them a pretty penny. But would it be worth the investment to keep a core of there customers. 

[bigmattb28]

15 hours ago, Archibalduk said:

No, fair dealing is using copyrighted material (and not trade marked material) for research, review/critique or news reporting purposes. None of these apply here.

 

Thanks for clearing it up.

For me though, as I've said people who already have the logos and what not can't really be stopped from using them unless SI incorporate things in newer FM's that stop these being added to the game.

7 hours ago, Gross_Ballon said:

Surely SI can have the type of lawyers to look into this. go through it all ovb going to cost them a pretty penny. But would it be worth the investment to keep a core of there customers. 

Thing is, people like me, and I assume you have played this franchise for a long time (my first being CM99) and it'll take something big for the hardcore to stop playing it, would that be the removal of not adding graphics? Who knows, possibly, possibly not.

[The Gold Guard]

What about slightly modified style like the 'Footbe' logopack? I could live with that if that is the loophole needed. I am sure we can all get around as a community and make a whole database and beyond of those...

[Bothan Spy]

Tbf, naming rights aren't a new thing to fm. Step forward Jens Mustermann.

[bigmattb28]

25 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

Tbf, naming rights aren't a new thing to fm. Step forward Jens Mustermann.

Max Mustermann must be related to Jens 

[Bakiano]

35 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

Max Mustermann must be related to Jens 

Now there is a Ramondi at italian club named after an animal 

[Marius_R]

57 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

Tbf, naming rights aren't a new thing to fm. Step forward Jens Mustermann.

That was a pretty isolated case back then, now you have Real Hispalis and San Sebastian and God knows what other stupid names for clubs. I honestly didn't give a crap about that until now, as with the real names fix it was like 3 minutes away from getting the right names and the German, Japan and Netherlands national teams to be playable. But having Zebre vs whatever stupid random Spanish name in the QF of the Euro Cup just takes the realism out of the game for me.

Are they going to go after someone like claassen, who keeps making the  league activation megapack aswell? Activating the Japanese league and such.

[Deloma]

On 12/11/2019 at 00:46, grade said:

 

If every football fan decided right now to email their respective clubs, saying: "Either you stop this practice of hurting us how to enjoy our medium, or i will cancel my season ticket or stop giving in any shape or form my money to you!"     You will see the world record of speed of backtracking their decision. If they decide to call our bluff so be it. After few months of a few millions in the red, viewership down would make them wake up. You see in football or any sort of sports who holds the power and the money it is us. Not them. They depend on us fans. No fans, no money.

 

 

This! How many times have you heard people complaining about bad products, evil companies, greedy CEOs etc?? And yet every time they go out and spend their cash on same products and same companies feeding the same greed.  My feeling is that prior to 90s people had principles and would try to live by them no matter what, today it's all about the individual and the situation. Just look at the political situation in Europe, all the traditional parties have been loosing voters, why? Because they are still trying to promote their principal ideologies and people just don't care anymore, it's more what is it for me rather than what is it for the community/country/world. You're absolutely right, if you don't like the way EA or Konami are conducting their business then don't buy anything they produce no matter what. If they build such bad products and conduct bad business eventually the money will force them to change or die. Simple... We just have to live the way we speak and not bulge next time they show the next evolution in the graphics department.  

A perfect example is NBA2K games which have been criticised for years for being gambling simulators forcing you to buy currency in order to play the game the way you want. Yet, every year people buy their ****.. If they just lost 50% of their sales for one year I'm betting that the year after the virtual currency would be gone. 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Deloma

[gavinski33]

@RBKalle, I'll not quote you because I forgot and can't be arsed scrolling back up, but your analogy regarding the print shop is the same I one I was clumsily trying to make regarding Kodi.

Kodi aren't at fault because people use their service to stream illegal content, otherwise (much like your t-shirt shop being told to stop offering a printing service) Kodi would be required to change their program to prevent such things being available; and the home user doesn't get prosecuted for accessing such streams. The target generally is the people selling things like firesticks 'preloaded', pubs advertising things like 3pm kick offs or other games that aren't part of legal TV packages for monetary gain, and the sites that demand you pair up or pay a small fee to get the content.

The highlighted parts pretty much, er, highlight the crux of the matter. SI aren't at fault for making the game 'Moddable' - look at GTA and it's Hulk and Thanos iterations for example - and the editor is a huge factor in many people purchasing the game. Neither are the creators or users doing anything illegal. The issue, as far as I can tell, is with the sites offering said packs as essential and must have whilst at the same time gaining ad revenue, percentage of sales from their page, offering paid for premium speeds etc.

Cash is King and all that, and to be fair it is understandable, even if it does feel harsh that billionaire revenue companies are clamping down on folk like Stam for making next to nothing from providing this unlicensed licensed content. Much like the Liverpool lads selling their scarves outside Anfield on a matchday.

26 minutes ago, Marius_R said:

Are they going to go after someone like claassen, who keeps making the  league activation megapack aswell? Activating the Japanese league and such.

 No. As long as he doesn't make any money from it.

What is going to happen is that we'll have to sign up/subscribe or whatever to FM Scout or whichever you use and receive these things by email, rather than clicking a few buttons on a website.

[Eoin Maguire]

I'm just confused about the whole situation. SI haven't confirmed anything yet, so I don't get why people are jumping to conclusions so quickly and saying that it's going to be a hot mess. It's only to do with a couple of sites(the major ones), using certain logos etc. You can still get logos etc in loads of places. SI would never disable the use of graphics, because it's not illegal to use graphics if they are for eg Footbe Logos or 3d rendered faces. The worst thing that will happen would be the ban of distribution of the logos etc. But that won't stop ****. People need to calm down and look at the situation from a realistic perspective. It will be fine. Its just a small blip. These things happen. And for SI to disable graphics,they would have to make drastic changes to the game, which they won't, because the development phase of the game is pretty much done, and they know that if they did that, it would kill there game. 

 

[Gross_Ballon]

9 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Thanks for clearing it up.

For me though, as I've said people who already have the logos and what not can't really be stopped from using them unless SI incorporate things in newer FM's that stop these being added to the game.

Thing is, people like me, and I assume you have played this franchise for a long time (my first being CM99) and it'll take something big for the hardcore to stop playing it, would that be the removal of not adding graphics? Who knows, possibly, possibly not.

For me it would be I've played since 2005. I love this game ive had a tough year lots of down time so have 4000 hours into 19. it kept me going through the tough days. but having the ability to find the graphics logo changes etc is actually a richual for some one like me. I enjoy it a lot.  I do believe I 100% could not stay and play with nameless names and no player faces. to me it would just take any fun and immersion out of the game for. But I am a FM addict since 2005 I may need therapy after ahah. could they at least offer to pay the therapy bills.

For me it would be a disaster to loose fm .

[Double0Seven]

I would pay for licenses. Honestly, if it goes that direction and official licensed. I would pay.

[forameuss]

On 11/11/2019 at 23:46, grade said:

If every football fan decided right now to email their respective clubs, saying: "Either you stop this practice of hurting us how to enjoy our medium, or i will cancel my season ticket or stop giving in any shape or form my money to you!"     You will see the world record of speed of backtracking their decision. If they decide to call our bluff so be it. After few months of a few millions in the red, viewership down would make them wake up. You see in football or any sort of sports who holds the power and the money it is us. Not them. They depend on us fans. No fans, no money.

While this is a nice little dream that gets trotted out by fans, it's not really workable nowadays, is it?  Maybe further down the ladder, but larger clubs likely make far, far more money from people who will never come close to visiting the home stadium, than those that go every week.  They could likely sit with empty stadiums and take a slight hit, but still remain very wealthy thanks to the over-inflated TV deals.  

Fans can beat their chests all they want and revel in their own imagined importance, but unfortunately that ship has well and truly sailed.  If clubs were promised guaranteed billions to go and play in Qatar for a few years, knowing that they'd leave the vast majority of their fans behind, you wouldn't see them for dust.  You're just a numbered consumer to them now, and they'll do what they like.

Welcome to modern football.

14 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

I would pay for licenses. Honestly, if it goes that direction and official licensed. I would pay.

I doubt adding a license surcharge to the game would even come close to paying the amount of money that some of the major licenses require.  As mentioned previously, EA balked at the charge for using Juventus's name, and they're raking in millions a day from microtransactions.  If they're not willing to touch it, the amounts must've been prohibitive.  

FM has a nice little niche in the market.  It's not priced (for the most part) in the same way as normal AAA games, and usually represents pretty good value for money.  If we were to add, say, a tenner onto the price purely  to cover licenses, that wouldn't really sit well with me.  Purely personally, of course.

[DoubleDenimSuccess]

15 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

I would pay for licenses. Honestly, if it goes that direction and official licensed. I would pay.

Well more fool you! The vast majority, wouldn't & rightfully shouldn't have to!

[Double0Seven]

43 minutes ago, DoubleDenimSuccess said:

Well more fool you! The vast majority, wouldn't & rightfully shouldn't have to!

Where do you get this "vast majority" from? I'm pretty sure if SI adds licenses they could do a better job than amateur modders. I'm sure there's a market for that. I wouldn't mind paying more knowing I don't have to download from illegal sources and help out SI at the same time. I don't see any downsides to this and can't imagine our fanbase running out because si add more immersion. 

 

59 minutes ago, forameuss said:

FM has a nice little niche in the market

Don't completely agree. FM is consistently a top 10 played game on pc. Even older FM versions regularly beat out nee AAA titles. Just check steam. 

Its niche compared to FIFA/Pes but it's far from niche compared to other mainstream games. Were pretty big number wise. 

[forameuss]

8 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Don't completely agree. FM is consistently a top 10 played game on pc. Even older FM versions regularly beat out nee AAA titles. Just check steam. 

Its niche compared to FIFA/Pes but it's far from niche compared to other mainstream games. Were pretty big number wise. 

It's a niche product.  That's undeniable.  It sells very well comparatively, and it keeps attention longer - as you'll see with the most played lists - but I suspect on pure sales it's still behind.  Which is fine.  Not everyone is going to be interested in Excel with a match engine on top.  It's always been this way.

[DoubleDenimSuccess]

7 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

Where do you get this "vast majority" from? I'm pretty sure if SI adds licenses they could do a better job than amateur modders. I'm sure there's a market for that. I wouldn't mind paying more knowing I don't have to download from illegal sources and help out SI at the same time. I don't see any downsides to this and can't imagine our fanbase running out because si add more immersion. 

Why should you have to pay extra for something which quite frankly should already be in the game? Sheer greed from companies/corporates etc

Secondly, the amateur modders in this gaming community are exceptional and id hazard a guess, just as good as Si, if not potentially better. Some of the stuff they put out to make thousands of gamers games more immersive is quite frankly outstanding. The term 'all heroes don't wear capes' springs to mind!

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, DoubleDenimSuccess said:

Why should you have to pay extra for something which quite frankly should already be in the game? Sheer greed from companies/corporates etc

Secondly, the amateur modders in this gaming community are exceptional and id hazard a guess, just as good as Si, if not potentially better. Some of the stuff they put out to make thousands of gamers games more immersive is quite frankly outstanding. The term 'all heroes don't wear capes' springs to mind!

Well that's not quite accurate.  We're not talking about a missing feature, we're talking about something that is, in all likelihood, prohibitively expensive and pointlessly so.

I absolutely agree we shouldn't be upping the price to cover the costs (I trust SI to know what licenses they should and shouldn't have within their budget) but to treat it like any other feature and go on about greed is waaaay wide of the mark.

[Carambau]

As long as I can use the packs I already have in the new FM, this is no problem at all for me.

If not, then it is a problem and I won´t buy the new FM.

Then again, we all have seen this coming long ago. Now it happened and who is surprised?

 

[Nikopol]

Strange how this lines up with the Stadia Launch (no user addons possible) and the Arsenal edition (selling graphic addons)

If this is the path that SI goes, i'm definitely out. I'm sure that a community for those FM's who still were in support of these things will form, with download links being traded around on sites that cant be targeted by greedy corps.

Shame SI isn't responding to this, or is giving reassurance.

[kevhamster]

20 minutes ago, Nikopol said:

Strange how this lines up with the Stadia Launch (no user addons possible) and the Arsenal edition (selling graphic addons)

If this is the path that SI goes, i'm definitely out. I'm sure that a community for those FM's who still were in support of these things will form, with download links being traded around on sites that cant be targeted by greedy corps.

Shame SI isn't responding to this, or is giving reassurance.

There were specific club editions years ago.  I believe someone linked to a listing for an Arsenal edition for FM11.

Also, I don't believe for a second this is due to Stadia.  Google have bigger fish to fry than this.

I'd be far more inclined to believe this is somehow linked to Juventus or Konami.

[samuel888]

They cant stop it. you can download any movie or tv series on the internet, you think they can stop logos lol. They can be hosted anywhere in the world. 

[mozza79]

2 hours ago, samuel888 said:

They cant stop it. you can download any movie or tv series on the internet, you think they can stop logos lol. They can be hosted anywhere in the world. 

The only thing that Would cause issues issues imo is if SI are forced to mess with ID's or stop a path to modding the game, but that seems unlikely at this stage.

[starbugg]

52 minutes ago, mozza79 said:

The only thing that Would cause issues issues imo is if SI are forced to mess with ID's or stop a path to modding the game, but that seems unlikely at this stage.

I really hope they don't do that, I can't see myself playing with fake names, logos, kits and such.

I would pay more for a fully licenced version and I mean fully licenced, not just a few or half.

[Spurs08]

1 hour ago, starbugg said:

I really hope they don't do that, I can't see myself playing with fake names, logos, kits and such.

I would pay more for a fully licenced version and I mean fully licenced, not just a few or half.

It really doesn't matter. The games that buy those exclusive licenses sell 10x as many copies or more than Football Manager. Maybe you'd pay £500 for the game, but unless every single current player was willing to (and 99.9% wouldn't) SI can't compete.

[DemonS0ul]

On the day i can't put logos and kits and that sort of thing in the game, the game dies to me, (it already died a few years ago, i just got into it again) didn't buy FM since fm 2005, i can live again without it.

 

5 horas atrás, samuel888 disse:

They cant stop it. you can download any movie or tv series on the internet, you think they can stop logos lol. They can be hosted anywhere in the world. 

Issue isn't dowloading them, LOL downloads aren't an issue even in Korea on the kave with candles.

The issue is not having any way of putting in the game.

Edited November 14, 2019 by DemonS0ul

[ImDaWeasel]

I don't want SI to make a statement about this at all as it means they are actually acknowledging it themselves. The more silent they are the better, as said before the graphics you can add is more of a backdoor they've left open for you, hope for all our sakes they aren't forced to look and shut that backdoor.

[Saint_Lane]

2 minutes ago, ImDaWeasel said:

hope for all our sakes they aren't forced to look and shut that backdoor.

Amen to that!

[RBKalle]

9 ore fa, forameuss ha scritto:

While this is a nice little dream that gets trotted out by fans, it's not really workable nowadays, is it?  Maybe further down the ladder, but larger clubs likely make far, far more money from people who will never come close to visiting the home stadium, than those that go every week.  They could likely sit with empty stadiums and take a slight hit, but still remain very wealthy thanks to the over-inflated TV deals.  

Fans can beat their chests all they want and revel in their own imagined importance, but unfortunately that ship has well and truly sailed.  If clubs were promised guaranteed billions to go and play in Qatar for a few years, knowing that they'd leave the vast majority of their fans behind, you wouldn't see them for dust.  You're just a numbered consumer to them now, and they'll do what they like.

Welcome to modern football.

Sadly it's true

FM hardcore fans (heck, even the ENTIRE customers pool) aren't remotely enough to influence Top Clubs' policies, let alone on a trivial and super-marginal matter like licensing rights for a management game.

In the end, if fans outrage hasn't solved game-changing scenarios like fragmanted schedule, higher ticket prices, predatory Pay-TV practices etc, good luck with hoping that a Change.org petition with 20k signatures or a few angry tweets or FB posts could dissuade clubs from asking for more money.

 

9 ore fa, forameuss ha scritto:

I doubt adding a license surcharge to the game would even come close to paying the amount of money that some of the major licenses require.  As mentioned previously, EA balked at the charge for using Juventus's name, and they're raking in millions a day from microtransactions.  If they're not willing to touch it, the amounts must've been prohibitive.

Likely EA couldn't bother...

They could easily purchase the entire Juventus FC if they felt like, so it's definitely not about the cost but the perceived worth of the deal. How many FIFA players would switch to an "inferior" product only to be able to play with the official license of their favourite club?

 

8 ore fa, Double0Seven ha scritto:

Don't completely agree. FM is consistently a top 10 played game on pc. Even older FM versions regularly beat out nee AAA titles. Just check steam. 

Its niche compared to FIFA/Pes but it's far from niche compared to other mainstream games. Were pretty big number wise. 

PC games can't hold a candle to console games and are/won't ever be as profitable.

(also because of modding being easier on PC... so good luck with selling DLC and microtransactions if some dude in Russia or Asia is distributing those for free and there's a "trainer"/cheat mode to do what you pay for on consoles)

[Brendever_]

10 hours ago, forameuss said:

I doubt adding a license surcharge to the game would even come close to paying the amount of money that some of the major licenses require.  As mentioned previously, EA balked at the charge for using Juventus's name, and they're raking in millions a day from microtransactions.  If they're not willing to touch it, the amounts must've been prohibitive.  

EA didn't "balk" at the charge. What happened was their exclusive licensing deal ended and Konami came forward with a better offer. Don't forget that Konami dropped a massive license (UEFA competitions) to be able to afford these exclusive partnerships.

I'm not sure why there was a change in terms of FM of the naming deal, given that it wasn't a problem in the past for them to use the name Juventus, whereas PES and FIFA both were unable to.

[styluz05]

I really don't understand the "need" for all the official logos doesn't change the actual game just the look of it. Seems pretty petty for people to not play it of they can't get there favourite teams logo lol 

[ImDaWeasel]

8 minutes ago, styluz05 said:

I really don't understand the "need" for all the official logos doesn't change the actual game just the look of it. Seems pretty petty for people to not play it of they can't get there favourite teams logo lol 

It's not a need, it just adds so much to the immersion of the game. Kits I can do without as when you play more than 2 seasons the kits should technically be out of date. Logos, real names and faces are more important. I would like to see dynamic kits that update every season or two in future FMs.

[autohoratio]

26 minutes ago, Brendever_ said:

I'm not sure why there was a change in terms of FM of the naming deal, given that it wasn't a problem in the past for them to use the name Juventus, whereas PES and FIFA both were unable to.

Just an educated guess but I believe it was because SI have Serie A officially licensed

[99]

38 minutos atrás, styluz05 disse:

I really don't understand the "need" for all the official logos doesn't change the actual game just the look of it. Seems pretty petty for people to not play it of they can't get there favourite teams logo lol 

Logos are the identity of a team. I understand the need from SI to make generic logos, since they can't put the real ones in the game, but something feels fundamentaly wrong when you are managing a team, their colors, their history, their players, and it's all represented by a generic, bland and zero meaning logo.

That's just my opinion ofcourse. I just can't play until I get the real logos in place. Neither I couldn't manage a Juventus team called Zebre. If for some reason these add-ons get forbidden, I'll try to do them on my own, no one's gonna check my personal computer to see if I'm using real logos or real names in my game...

Edited November 14, 2019 by 99