Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[rdbayly]

Question about wage contributions from selling clubs:

Scenario: I have a bid accepted which includes a 20k p/w contribution from the selling club. Is this amount in addition to what the player demands from my club, or will the selling club pay 20k of what I agree for his salary? This isn't clear on the negotiations screen and I feel it would be a good inclusion.  

[herne79]

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

Was it purely tactics / PPM/ Player Attribute related then (given that there are no ME changes made)? At the end, those were penalties were a call to be made for an incident, so it's got to be something.  

VAR .

[roykela]

10 hours ago, roykela said:

I noticed kind of the same thing after the official release but with my defensive-minded players.
I'm over-acvhieving at the moment but my players, mostly defensive players, have a hard time getting a rating over 6.3.
Doesn't matter if we win or lose.
Actually, it seems like any player who's not involved in a goal for us will have a rating at max 6.5.
There are exceptions but not many.

 

8 hours ago, JDownie said:

Now that you've mentioned it, you're actually bang on with this. 

In the 5 games I've played, I've won 4 and drawn 1. For context I am Werder Bremen. 

2-0 at Nordhausen (Pokal) - 7.28 avg rating*. Only players above a 7.0 were my RB who assisted, ST who scored and assisted, CM who scored. My CB got a 7.1. 

2-0 vs. Dusseldorf - 6.96 avg rating. Only players above a 6.9 were my ST who scored a brace and my LB who got assist (7.3).

1-1 at Hoffenhein - 6.70 avg rating. Only players to get above a 6.7 were my LB who got an assist (7.2) and CM off the bench who scored a worldie for an 8.2 and MOTM.

2-0 vs. Augsburg - 7.16 avg rating. 5 players above 7.0, 2 of which scored, two got a 7.2 and one got a 7.6.

1-0 at Union Berlin - 6.98 avg rating. 3 players got above a 6.9 - CB who assisted (7.1), LB (7.6) and CM who scored the only goal (7.9).

*- post-release hotfix, but not the hotfix released a few hours back. 

Maybe I'm way off here but on the beta save I had, I had 3 of the top 5 players in the Bundesliga, notably my FBs who were averaging 7.5+ and my ST who was just below 7.5. 

Right now the top performers in the Bundesliga are the players getting all of the goals and assists - if you don't contribute to a goal you get a bad rating. Which doesn't seem right to me. I mean I have 4 clean sheets in 5 games and my GK is averaging a 6.85, my CBs a 6.92 (only because he assisted!) and a 6.85

 

8 hours ago, ViG1980 said:

The average rating system is not very useful in this version at all. Not trying to be lazy and only rely on it either but....if a player is not involved in a goal, their average rating is usually in the 6 range unless the scoreline is really high. I just beat Chelsea away and Liverpool at home and most of my team got 6 ratings. We had more possession and quality shots than Chelsea and Liverpool we just defended well, they did not create many CCCs.

 

Edit: Page didn't reload and someone already posted about this...ah well - I am also having this issue!

I've started a thread in the bugs forum now.
Would be great if you could contribute with your findings.

[ceefax the cat]

That's it for me until an ME patch comes out. Horrific. 

[Johnny Ace]

5 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

That's it for me until an ME patch comes out. Horrific. 

Did the patch last night not sort whatever you think's horrific?

[KlaaZ]

32 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

Question about wage contributions from selling clubs:

Scenario: I have a bid accepted which includes a 20k p/w contribution from the selling club. Is this amount in addition to what the player demands from my club, or will the selling club pay 20k of what I agree for his salary? This isn't clear on the negotiations screen and I feel it would be a good inclusion.  

It's in addition to what you're willing to pay. Afaik he wants the selling club to compensate for the fact that he's accepting a contract that's nowhere near as lucrative as his current one.

[noikeee]

So, I've just loaded the game after the hotfix and it appears that for some players it's had the opposite effect of what I would expect...

 

Whereas for others it's fine:

 

 

 

It's a hard bug to try to repair from their part tbf, I think I'm gonna start a new game from scratch anyway.

Edited November 21, 2019 by noikeee

[ceefax the cat]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Did the patch last night not sort whatever you think's horrific?

The non-ME patch?

[FMLegend1983]

30 minutes ago, noikeee said:

So, I've just loaded the game after the hotfix and it appears that for some players it's had the opposite effect of what I would expect...

 

Whereas for others it's fine:

 

 

 

It's a hard bug to try to repair from their part tbf, I think I'm gonna start a new game from scratch anyway.

Have you reported this as a bug? This is my fear that they did not fix all players I played a few games yesterday thought there was a aslight improvement but soon realised that ME is still not right the way it is currently I'll be lucky if any of my world class strikers get 10 goals in a season not to mention the average 6 bookings a game nor the fact that 5 out of 6 games all had own goals conceded by my team!

Edited November 21, 2019 by FMLegend1983

[Ras]

Am still having the penalty issues.  It seemed to reduce for a little bit but came back, often 2 penalties against a game, sometimes more.  Am noticing when I get penalties for me missing too much too considering my top pen taker has a 19 attribute, think he’s missed 3 of 4 pens.  Unfortunately I think I’m probably gonna have to start again after the issue is fixed because it’s effecting my game too much, have lost too many games due to the penalties and it seems to happen in bunches.  Maybe I should have waited till the patch that fixed that was out.  I’ll try again then.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ras

[Johnny Ace]

19 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

The non-ME patch?

ME 2021 now 

[Ras]

Another issue I was having was when I have it set to distribute to the target man it’s distributing to the advanced forward instead.  Is that a bug?  Has anybody else had anything similar?

And sometimes the wing backs would constantly shoot and seem refuse to cross, even if it’s an easy cross.

Hopefully a fix can resolve some of the issues and can start fresh.

 

 

[ceefax the cat]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

ME 2021 now 

Don't think I have the stomach to go round again just yet.

The key moment for me was sitting trying to set up a 4-1-2-1-2, and realising that, no matter how I set up my front three, they wouldn't combine in any meaningful way, the goals would come from crosses or long balls over the top, my fullbacks would be my main creators and I'd be sitting watching the same old game of FM-ball with the same selection of typical FM goals. One from a wingback crossing, one a couple of passes from a throw in and maybe a shot from range or a 1v1 after a long ball over the top from one of the back 4. The most influence I can have on the match, really, is to decide how high up the pitch to try and defend.

If that's changed then amazing but it's been like that for a very long time now (actually the random long balls are new!). 

Edited November 21, 2019 by ceefax the cat

[FMLegend1983]

I really hope SI can fix this properly it took me ages to achieve what Ihave and to get into my 4th season i don't want to have to go through all that again and start a new game

[FMLegend1983]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

ME 2021 now 

Is yours working ok now or did you start a new career?

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

Don't think I have the stomach to go round again just yet.

The key moment for me was sitting trying to set up a 4-1-2-1-2, and realising that, no matter how I set up my front three, they wouldn't combine in any meaningful way, the goals would come from crosses or long balls over the top, my fullbacks would be my main creators and I'd be sitting watching the same old game of FM-ball with the same selection of typical FM goals. One from a wingback crossing, one a couple of passes from a throw in and maybe a shot from range or a 1v1 after a long ball over the top from one of the back 4.

If that's changed then amazing but it's been like that for a very long time now

Ah, I'm with ya

Kind of the same, I deliberately started a save with a 4-4-2 team & it played well in the two games I got in last night but the 4-2-3-1 save I've left for now  

[Ras]

See the penalty issue may be fixed in the latest Hotfix, to install it o I just restart steam?

[Johnny Ace]

10 minutes ago, FMLegend1983 said:

Is yours working ok now or did you start a new career?

The penalties thing seems sorted, I saw some good play with a 4-4-2 but I kind of expect wing play then

Still loads of yellow cards but that might settle down 

ETA: Playing a mess about at work save with Arsenal 4-3-1-2 & still seeing the majority of the service coming from the full backs, mainly because it builds up like this, Mailtland-Niles is the no. 15  

Edited November 21, 2019 by Johnny Ace

[emil_sbn]

2 hours ago, emil_sbn said:

One of my MCs WHO have played in the same position for 2 seasons won’t have his positional familiraity go up it stays at the bottom all the time anyone else noticed this? The other players has full green bars just one player.

Any thougts on this? 

[ceefax the cat]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Ah, I'm with ya

Kind of the same, I deliberately started a save with a 4-4-2 team & it played well in the two games I got in last night but the 4-2-3-1 save I've left for now  

The system I was trying before that was 5-3-2 which, of course, means pretty much exactly the same awfulness. It's the same with every formation, it's just that some of them are specifically designed to score those FM goals and some aren't. If you're playing a 4-3-3 with an inside forward who shoots and a fullback overlapping, it probably feels like your instructions are really doing something. Yay, the lone striker kept it simple, the inside forward shot from 20 yards and the fullback crossed, as requested! Try and score a different type of goal and you realise how meaningless the whole thing is.

In the last few years it's gone from adjusting various parameters of each player's behaviour on a scale of 1-20, to selecting the most obvious set of roles you can (with a load of green circles and stars to encourage you not to stray) and watching the same goals anyway. The only question is, are you scoring them or is the AI?

Edited November 21, 2019 by ceefax the cat

[Johnny Ace]

11 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

The system I was trying before that was 5-3-2 which, of course, means pretty much exactly the same awfulness. It's the same with every formation, it's just that some of them are specifically designed to score those FM goals and some aren't. If you're playing a 4-3-3 with an inside forward who shoots and a fullback overlapping, it probably feels like your instructions are really doing something. Yay, the lone striker kept it simple, the inside forward shot from 20 yards and the fullback crossed, as requested! Try and score a different type of goal and you realise how meaningless the whole thing is.

Have a look above at the pic I posted, the space Xhaka has there & he pings one out to the fullback. I'm playing Focus through the middle, short passing, slow tempo there too  

I watch a few Youtubers & the one I notice where the strikers are bagging the majority is playing a 4-4-2 (or a 4-2-4) because they play out pretty well because you get what you expect, play going out wide, crossed into the box, centre mids catch loose balls on the edge of the area   

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Johnny Ace

[Mr U Rosler]

30 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

ME 2021 now 

Wait, so there has been am ME update since full release ??

Must have missed that, unless this was the penalties fix.

 

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, Mr U Rosler said:

Wait, so there has been am ME update since full release ??

Must have missed that, unless this was the penalties fix.

 

Yeah pal, that's the one 

[luka_zg]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Have a look above at the pic I posted, the space Xhaka has there & he pings one out to the fullback. I'm playing Focus through the middle, short passing, slow tempo there too  

I watch a few Youtubers & the one I notice where the strikers are bagging the majority is playing a 4-4-2 (or a 4-2-4) because they play out pretty well because you get what you expect, play going out wide, crossed into the box, centre mids catch loose balls on the edge of the area   

 

I'm playing 4231 and my top scorer is my striker.

[Ras]

1 thing I noticed was a lack of through balls on the ground, is that something others have had or not?

[HUNT3R]

2 hours ago, emil_sbn said:

One of my MCs WHO have played in the same position for 2 seasons won’t have his positional familiraity go up it stays at the bottom all the time anyone else noticed this? The other players has full green bars just one player.

What does "stays at the bottom" mean? What IS his actual familiarity? Is it 'Accomplished'? If it is, then that's good enough. I don't think it's possible for a player to become 'Natural' in a position.

[luka_zg]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

What does "stays at the bottom" mean? What IS his actual familiarity? Is it 'Accomplished'? If it is, then that's good enough. I don't think it's possible for a player to become 'Natural' in a position.

On FM19 it was for sure possible to go from accomplished to natural.

[ceefax the cat]

1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

Have a look above at the pic I posted, the space Xhaka has there & he pings one out to the fullback 

I watch a few Youtubers & the one I notice where the strikers are bagging the majority is playing a 4-4-2 (or a 4-2-4) because they play out pretty well because you get what you expect, play going out wide, crossed into the box, centre mids catch loose balls on the edge of the area   

 

There's almost no point posting examples because the amount of creativity and number of combinations through the middle is zero in every game. It doesn't happen, full stop. I remember scoring from some through balls on the edge of the box in FM19 - literally, they stand out in my memory because there were, I think, 2 or 3 of them all year and I think they all came from scrappy gegenpressing-type situations where the defence suddenly had a hole in it. I'm on zero in FM20.

In FM13 I thought they'd cracked it for a while. First thing I did when I got it was play a diamond and the game was full of tiki-taka combinations around the edge of the box and low driven crosses to the near post, almost to the point of being unrealistically technical. How they've let it get into its current state I have no idea.

 

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, luka_ said:

On FM19 it was for sure possible to go from accomplished to natural.

Okay, like I said, I wasn't sure. I'll take your word for it.  

[luka_zg]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Okay, like I said, I wasn't sure. I'll take your word for it.  

btw NK Sesvete? Interesting choice. I'm from Zagreb so it's a bit funny to see someone chose Sesvete to manage.

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, luka_ said:

I'm playing 4231 and my top scorer is my striker.

Penalties, direct free-kicks, taps in after a wide player's had a shot saved?

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, luka_ said:

btw NK Sesvete? Interesting choice. I'm from Zagreb so it's a bit funny to see someone chose Sesvete to manage.

I play by LLAMA 'rules' so start in a random country every year in the lowest playable division. I liked the black and red, so decided that's who I wanted. 

I don't want the thread derailed, so you can PM if there's more you want to talk about. It's off topic. 

[Armistice]

13 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

There's almost no point posting examples because the amount of creativity and number of combinations through the middle is zero in every game. It doesn't happen, full stop. I remember scoring from some through balls on the edge of the box in FM19 - literally, they stand out in my memory because there were, I think, 2 or 3 of them all year and I think they all came from scrappy gegenpressing-type situations where the defence suddenly had a hole in it. I'm on zero in FM20.

In FM13 I thought they'd cracked it for a while. First thing I did when I got it was play a diamond and the game was full of tiki-taka combinations around the edge of the box and low driven crosses to the near post, almost to the point of being unrealistically technical. How they've let it get into its current state I have no idea.

I looked in the ME bugs section and there’s no thread reporting this issue on the first page. I know some people reported lack of central play in beta, but after the release no one did and most of the concerns are posted here but this won’t benefit us too much...

I don’t know where FM20 is gonna go from here but the near future doesn’t sound too promising imo regarding central play.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Armistice

[luka_zg]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Penalties, direct free-kicks, taps in after a wide player's had a shot saved?

Idk man..I don't keep track. He ddid score a couple of pens for sure. But my 2nd scorer is Pogba and 3rd is Maddison. One is MC and other is AMC. So that's 3 top scorers all play through the middle. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying my centre players are scoring goals.

[ceefax the cat]

26 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I looked in the ME bugs section and there’s no thread reporting this issue on the first page. I know some people reported lack of central play in beta, but after the release no one did and most of the concerns are posted here but this won’t benefit us too much...

I don’t know where FM20 is gonna go from here but the near future doesn’t sound too promising imo regarding central play.

I think it's gone beyond the point where people bother because for a year or more there have been loads of threads about the total lack of central play, with heatmaps, examples blah blah blah, and nothing has changed at all. No third man combinations, no one-twos, no threaded passes, no lay-offs, no knockdowns, no dinks, none of the things you associate with entertaining football at all really, just get it wide or shoot, get it wide or shoot, get it wide or shoot. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by ceefax the cat

[Icy]

I started one thread in the bugs section for the beta, and honestly while I saw some improvements with the final game, main issues are still present for these like me that play control/short passing/tiki taka. That we pin the other team in their area, and then your players are unable to break the other team defense and just pass it in front of the area and from one side to the other. @Svenc has already posted about that problem several times since FM19, that what we see as domination is in general just that we can't break defenses as there is no strikers movement nor enough attempt of through risky passes inside the area nor one-twos.

Maybe we should start a thread about central play, with samples (pkm, screenshots, videos) to discuss about it in general. Ideally in the tactics forum to see if it's tactics related as I think it affects some game styles more than the others, but I wonder if relevant SI staff will check than forum area/thread and will participate on it or if it will only happen if we open it in the bugs forum.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Icy

[Johnny Ace]

26 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I looked in the ME bugs section and there’s no thread reporting this issue on the first page. I know some people reported lack of central play in beta, but after the release no one did and most of the concerns are posted here but this won’t benefit us too much...

I don’t know where FM20 is gonna go from here but the near future doesn’t sound too promising imo regarding central play.

I've got one up, CJ was looking into it. 

Add some to it if you want, the more the better but I find it gets tiresome to be honest 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Where do I find the club's scouting range? 

[Novem9]

Possibly somebody has a feedback about longsaves already? I read about newgens improved, what about staff from IRL players which finished career? Managers, coaches, scoutes, etc?

[ceefax the cat]

1 minute ago, Icy said:

 

Maybe we should start a thread about central play, with samples (pkm, screenshots, videos) to discuss about it in general. Ideally in the tactics forum to see if it's tactics related as I think it affects some game styles more than the others, but I wonder if relevant SI staff will check than forum area/thread and will participate on it or if it will only happen if we open it in the bugs forum.

It's been done and done again but it can't hurt to keep the pressure on

[isignedupfornorealreason]

2 minutes ago, Icy said:

is in general just that we can't break defenses as there is no strikers movement nor enough attempt of through risky passes inside the area nor one-twos.

 

Would be useful if players were pulled out of position more as well. It is fairly easy, maybe too easy, to defend if you go with a basic 4-2DM formation. I went 15 games with only 1 goal conceded playing a back 4 with no DM's in my beta save, part of that is down to AI passivity at times, but the other is that when the opposition do dominate, they take pot shots, rushed shots or just generally don't take the extra second or two they have to exploit the space I'm offering them.

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, Icy said:

Maybe we should start a thread about central play, with samples (pkm, screenshots, videos) to discuss about it in general. Ideally in the tactics forum to see if it's tactics related as I think it affects some game styles more than the others, but I wonder if relevant SI staff will check than forum area/thread and will participate on it or if it will only happen if we open it in the bugs forum.

 

If you want it to reviewed it has to be reported with a PKM 

I started one but it's pretty hard to to add PKMs of things that don't happen so I try & pick out where it could happen 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Johnny Ace

[HUNT3R]

4 minutes ago, Icy said:

I started one thread in the bugs section for the beta, and honestly while I saw some improvements with the final game, main issues are still present for these like me that play control/short passing/tiki taka. That we pin the other team in their area, and then your players are unable to break the other team defense and just pass it in front of the area and from one side to the other. @Svenc has already posted about that problem several times since FM19, that what we see as domination is in general just that we can't break defenses as there is no strikers movement nor enough attempt of through risky passes inside the area nor one-twos.

Maybe we should start a thread about central play, with samples (pkm, screenshots, videos) to discuss about it in general. Ideally in the tactics forum to see if it's tactics related as I think it affects some game styles more than the others, but I wonder if relevant SI staff will check than forum area/thread and will participate on it or if it will only happen if we open it in the bugs forum.

While it can absolutely be tactical, it's also an ME issue. A couple of weeks ago I had issues setting up a 451 (4141 DM Wide in the game, I think) as the striker was not involved and play just kept going wide. Rashidi, using the same team and same formation, didn't experience this to the extent that I did at all. When I asked how he set up and changed a few things to closer resemble his setup (but not completely copying it) I found the striker being involved and saw more central play. In short, how he used space was just simply much better than how I did.

Saying that, there are still issues where a central pass can be made, but the player on the ball doesn't do it. Movement can also be a bit better in some cases. It's a big balancing act because just increasing that could see matches produce huge scorelines.

[ceefax the cat]

I'm amazed they even ask for pkm's tbh, it's such a huge issue. There is no match that isn't constantly affected by it.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, ceefax the cat said:

I'm amazed they even ask for pkm's tbh, it's such a huge issue. There is no match that isn't constantly affected by it.

That's exactly the reason PKMs are needed though. There are so many different ways to set up and different players with different attributes and millions of different scenarios. The more examples, the better the chance of covering most of it.

[ceefax the cat]

It affects every single way you could possibly set up though! Testers can generate as many examples as they like for themselves, with every match they play

"Hey here's a bug that occurs 100% of the time"
"Got a specific example?"
"Well yes but...."

Edited November 21, 2019 by ceefax the cat

[kandersson]

2 hours ago, pats said:

I love playing in serie A btw. Always challenging. 

It is, especially for strikers. Big match of the season Inter vs Juventus (AI vs AI):

Who needs Lukaku or Ronaldo when you have Asamoah and De Sciglio 

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

I'm amazed they even ask for pkm's tbh, it's such a huge issue. There is no match that isn't constantly affected by it.

Yeah, but it helps, the more different teams, different tactics, different variables they can have a look at the better

 

[themadsheep2001]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've got one up, CJ was looking into it. 

Add some to it if you want, the more the better but I find it gets tiresome to be honest 

Yeah they are looking into it. There's an awful lot of speculation and misinformation in this thread but it is something still being worked on. It's not as simple as focusing passing, but a shoot vs pass vs run risk balance, coupled with recycling movement. When they have something we'll hopefully hear then 

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Yeah they are looking into it. There's an awful lot of speculation and misinformation in this thread but it is something still being worked on. It's not as simple as focusing passing, but a shoot vs pass vs run risk balance, coupled with recycling movement. When they have something we'll hopefully hear then 

That's great to hear & I fully understand it's not just a simple case of "change this & everything's sorted"