Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Novem9]

10 минут назад, robsfc сказал:

I'm about to play the full version of FM20 for the first time, can someone tell me the latest version and ME version so I can check I am playing latest version?

[JamieTC13]

2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

No central play. No through balls. No centre forward play. All wide play. All hitting it into the side netting. 

Oh, wait...

 

And how many times as that happened out of a 100

[RBKalle]

2 minuti fa, Novem9 ha scritto:

if system failed for all users - its system's issue. If system works stable for part of users at least, system is correct. Error on user's side. Its simple

In ME context for sure

That's a stretch, and I'm being very very very kind by defining it as such...

So, if your group didn't get food poisoning by eating at a specific restaurant, but several other patrons did, was the food spoiled or not?

Frankly, if a sizeable enough part of users experience a problem, a problem big enough to report and/or to ruin the experience, the system is most definitely NOT correct.

Againt: games with 5 penalties, 4 of them missed is NOT a 1-in-one-million statistical oddity. It's something you'll see people report on a daily (hourly even!) basis on social media/reddit.
Wingers going coast-to-coast only to shoot into the side netting (or hitting the opposite corner flag) many times in a match isn't a matter of poor judgement by an amateur player with more lungs than brains.
Top level strikers making every wrong choice possible in one on one situations (running wide despite being unchallenged, shooting from 20 yards out, hitting the keeper with commendable consistency and accuracy) can't just be chalked up to "it's your tactics".

Those are ALL basic decision-making no-brainers for top-level professionals with barely adequate mental/technical traits and football awareness.

In the Isthmian League, sure, I can live with such nonsense. But watching Salah, Messi or Ronaldo waste countless chances as if they were your average Fatty Jimmy from the pub is frankly appalling and unacceptable.

(Then, if it's a matter of keeping the scorelines realistic, the issue is even worse, beucase it means the game must sabotage finishing because the buildup is creating too many chances)

[MBarbaric]

2 ore fa, Dagenham_Dave ha scritto:

No central play. No through balls. No centre forward play. All wide play. All hitting it into the side netting. 

Oh, wait...

 

I understand you get annoyed by people constantly exaggerating. However, you are just the same with your "troll the troll approach". Moreover, SI has already said they are looking into the issue so, that is that. If you have examples  of expected behaviour, post them in the bugs forum so SI can compare what makes these situations different and act upon. You've rightly said (more than once) people obssess with analyzing and should just enjoy what we have. Follow your own advice.

I really don't understand why the mods allow this for/against see saw to perpetuate itself into oblivion. it is tyresome and I imagine I am not the only one. Start pulling out those red cards and clear this thread of rubbish  

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

I understand you get annoyed by people constantly exaggerating. However, you are just the same with your "troll the troll approach". Moreover, SI has already said they are looking into the issue so, that is that. If you have examples  of expected behaviour, post them in the bugs forum so SI can compare what makes these situations different and act upon. You've rightly said (more than once) people obssess with analyzing and should just enjoy what we have. Follow your own advice.

I really don't understand why the mods allow this for/against see saw to perpetuate itself into oblivion. it is tyresome and I imagine I am not the only one. Start pulling out those red cards and clear this thread of rubbish  

We hand out infractions. Which are getting increasingly severe as people simply don't get the message. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

54 minutes ago, jckc221013jamie said:

And how many times as that happened out of a 100

Almost as many times as a goal from a cross. 

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Almost as many times as a goal from a cross. 

Weren't they shown as a nonsense just yesterday? Crosses as through balls, overhead kicks & all that pallava? 

On a completely different note, just noticed on past FM games, AI managers could have sons like we can, is this still a thing? I don't think I've ever seen or noticed this 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

Weren't they shown as a nonsense just yesterday? Crosses as through balls, overhead kicks & all that pallava? 

 

Possibly, but I have seen quite a few through balls in this first season so far. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

2 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Does prevent short GK distribution prevent this? not fully experimented with that yet.  

It aligns the attacking players just outside the box ready to charge in. I've seen some goals in this ME from CB's and keepers mucking up and getting tackled/misplacing the pass to the striker.

Fullback-wise I'm not sure, I would think that you'd need players high and wide, likely in the AMR/L slots to make it a worthwhile endeavour to block the fullbacks? I've not really paid attention in this area, sorry.

[Spedding]

6 hours ago, bahrami said:

I've been a member on this forum since 2007 and noticed similar. The ME is terrible and rather predictable. I honestly could tell you the outcome of 90/100 one-on-ones.

What's the point anymore SI? At least tell us works are in progress about a new ME patch.

they posted In the bugs forum hours before your post,

Hey everyone,

Firstly thank you to everyone who provided PKM's for us to review. They have been useful for us to pass onto the devs, indentifying different variables that could lead to the same outcome for some of the known issues we've had.

Unfortunately we can not give an exact date for when the update will be public, but we are working hard to improve all the known issues which have been raised and hope you will all enjoy playing on an improved Match Engine as soon as possible.

Thank you for your continued feedback.

CJ

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, prot651 said:

Makes you wonder if the score line is scripted before the match and just plays it out with limited input from the manager

I can't believe anybody putting a modicum of Hours into this -- and does some actual quality match Management -- still believes into this.  

That time when I barely conceded an Opposition Comeback when I switched to playing Keep-ball on deeper Areas of the pitch upon half-time / taking the lead, it was all in my head. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been converted and convinced.

The game's engine isn't an actual Simulation. It's all scripted and from now on any bug I report as well as any bad AI tactics costing it Points and making it less competitive than it could be shall take this into account. Please just script the AI to score Goals more EASILY SI!!!1

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Svenc

[ViG1980]

Has anyone actually seen VAR not just go with the ref's decision? Every time I see a penalty given and the ref goes to VAR, it is a penalty - not once has it not been given.

[Mitja]

10 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Please just script the AI to score Goals more EASILY SI!!!1

I'm in.

[Pyeman31]

I take it that despite the many uploads of ME bug examples and to be fair, SI acknowledgment that there is/maybe an issue,  that with the lack of ME update that they are possibly struggling to rectify the issues that have already been fed back. 

[Bakiano]

28 minutes ago, ViG1980 said:

Has anyone actually seen VAR not just go with the ref's decision? Every time I see a penalty given and the ref goes to VAR, it is a penalty - not once has it not been given.

I have seen twice that after checking for Var, penalty wasn't given nor a freekick.

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, RBKalle said:

(Then, if it's a matter of keeping the scorelines realistic, the issue is even worse, beucase it means the game must sabotage finishing because the buildup is creating too many chances)

Meanwhile one on ones for instance in actual time and space and angles on this tend to be converted slightly above 50% rates. The Buggy ones typically aren't (naturally aided also by some bad decision making on the Occasion). If I have the time, I may be doing some more Research on the Weekend. My suspicious is that those angled Buggy one on ones may be scored some too inconsistently; and naturally Players should square it when it's on. However, if they're Long-term converted at 1 in 5 rates that wouldn't be unrealistic at all. Perhaps even lower. Central one on ones in actual Football are sometimes rated no higher than 1 in 4 chances. An average Chance of converting the Thing of 20% would still mean it's twice as good a Chance than the average football Chance. However pretty much guarantee interesting streaks though, in particular considering the thousands playing this. The frequency has to come down anyway.

Let's do some simple Maths: 1 in 5 Chance means a 20% of conversion, average. Means an 80% Chance of missing / seeing the shot saved

Missing two on the bounce: 64%
Missing three: 51%
Four: 40%
Five: 32%
Six: 26%
Seven: 20%
Eight: 17%
Nine: 13%
Ten: 11%
.

.

.

Even if SI consider them bigger chances than 1 in 5, which would be stretching it imo; just this simple calculation Shows how important it is to tone their frequency down by adjusting the defending. In particular considering how many thousands are playing this. Even the unlikely, which the above isn't, becomes a dead certainty for as Long as it's just repeated enough (the Story of the injury bug sectioin every year). Unless there is a 0% likelyhood of something occuring, stuff will happen. For multiple Players.

The bigger Long-term "issue" in the amount of shots meanwhile flies over everybody's Radar imo. Has been for quite some while. It's the amount of set piece atttempts, how easy they are to come by (even on target), and how they bump the shot stats too easily. For limited Chance of any of those being converted into a Goal, pressured headers and all. If anybody could show me more than handful of Matches from his saves with a dozen shots on target and limited return that isn't beefed by the header from the set piece, I'd be surprised.  

Edited November 29, 2019 by Svenc

[Pyeman31]

I presume no update today? Such a shame as the game itself is very good it’s just that the most important part of the game, the bit you actually watch is flawed with stuttering 3D, greedy players shooting into the side netting, strikers finishing like Steve Bruce when in 1 v 1 and a lack of through balls to the strikers. 

Would it not be better to just tweak the match engine each year so that we could avoid all of these bugs? It’s not as if they only started working on the current ME in August. I don’t want to start a save until SI sort these known and fully reported bugs out as the game just doesn’t feel right with them in. 

Here’s hoping for a miracle, it is almost Xmas season after all

[johnhughthom]

Steve Bruce was a damn good finisher.

[KingBuzzo15]

I assume the public beta is not a thing then at the moment?

 

[Miravlix]

I don't get it Barca's Firpo has 3 Determination, Man Utd's Axel has 3 determination.

 

I just started this save, I thought it was fixed with the stupid low determination, but this is star players that is ruined.

[Miravlix]

46 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

I have seen twice that after checking for Var, penalty wasn't given nor a freekick.

 

But should all Pen be VAR calls, I'm fairly sure maybe a high % of the pen calls should be without VAR.

[Burhan]

13 dakika önce, KingBuzzo15 said:

I assume the public beta is not a thing then at the moment?

 

Yeah, I was hoping for a update or beta for weekend...

[autohoratio]

15 minutes ago, Miravlix said:

I don't get it Barca's Firpo has 3 Determination, Man Utd's Axel has 3 determination.

 

I just started this save, I thought it was fixed with the stupid low determination, but this is star players that is ruined.

If they have a random Determination attribute set in the DB, then it's just bad luck in your case.

[Pyeman31]

38 minutes ago, johnhughthom said:

Steve Bruce was a damn good finisher.

We must be thinking of a different Steve Bruce 😂😂

[ViG1980]

I have seen some people notice the amount of yellow cards. I am seeing a lot of this too. I have several players at 10 yellows on the season and I play the default tackling setting.

[Johnny Ace]

Bit early for an update fellas

Usually the first big one comes mid-late December & FM20 came out quite late so could be later

Beta? I dunno what's happening with that this year  

[JimV]

I was enjoying the game all the way from the Beta, but can't face playing a match with 20.1.4. 

 

I know it wasn't possible last year, but has technology moved on sufficiently to allow you roll back to the last incarnation?

[johnhughthom]

9 minutes ago, JimV said:

I was enjoying the game all the way from the Beta, but can't face playing a match with 20.1.4. 

 

I know it wasn't possible last year, but has technology moved on sufficiently to allow you roll back to the last incarnation?

Nope, and it's not about the technology, SI want everyone on the same patch.

[steviemay17]

It's way too easy to concede few goals by exploiting the complete lack of finishing ability and intelligence with obvious goalscoring chances.

If you sit deep and keep it tight the AI teams have no issues pinging ridiculous long shots from all angles, if you play a crazy high line then they just miss chance after chance because attackers can't square a ball or finish a 1 vs 1.

It feels this is more about exploiting the tendencies of the match engine than replicating real football just now.

 

[Scotty Walds]

1 hour ago, Pyeman31 said:

We must be thinking of a different Steve Bruce 😂😂

He was a fantastic header of the ball from attacking set pieces, as well as a good penalty taker.

[sorrenmills]

Going back to my long-running FM17 save until such time as they patch this hot mess. Suffering from all the things listed here including, but not limited to:

• Brainless wingers/fullbacks shooting constantly from the byline instead of crossing/cutbacks
• Continual missing of one on ones
• Absolutely peppering opposing goals with shots (I'm averaging at least 30+ shots per game) and yet barely scraping wins due to low conversion rates
• Utterly ineffectual midfield passing

And so forth and so on. Just for giggles I edited and added Mbappe, Messi and Dembele to my team. Messi is only scoring for penalties and the occasional free-kick otherwise he wouldn't have scored at all this season, Mbappe is utter dogsh*t and can't seem to hit a barn door (last game played he missed 3 penalties) and Dembele absolutely refuses to pass to anyone.

[Toonrock]

2 hours ago, sorrenmills said:

And so forth and so on. Just for giggles I edited and added Mbappe, Messi and Dembele to my team. Messi is only scoring for penalties and the occasional free-kick otherwise he wouldn't have scored at all this season, Mbappe is utter dogsh*t and can't seem to hit a barn door (last game played he missed 3 penalties) and Dembele absolutely refuses to pass to anyone.

Hmm, not sure I agree with you on that one - I really enjoy the ME, best yet imo (...except of course for the lagging and the wingers/full backs shooting into the sidenet ).

Granada v Barcelona.pkm

Edited November 29, 2019 by Toonrock

[Bob Johnson]

Anyone have this problem where all your games are low scoring. Literally half my games end 0-0 and I have the best defense and worst offense in the league. The weird thing is I’m playing with attacking tactics and my strikers are much better than my defenders. I’ve played with multiple teams and this same problem keeps happening.

[PsionicTT]

This is my first post on the forums but i am far from new to FM. I joined the FM train in 2013 with FM 2014 and i have got every edition since then

I honestly was going to skip FM20 when i saw the "features" being released as nothing stood out to me and made me say yes i want it but out of pure loyalty i made an early purchase and started playing from the beta. Honestly i enjoyed the Beta more than the current release. I am not a tactician but i was able for the first time in the beta to see my tactics work and better understand how to create and successfully create a system. That got me eager to get going on my main save (with Arsenal) on release but the game changed and i needed to adapt again after release.

Anyway i am now halfway through my first season with Arsenal and thought i'd share my sentiments so far.

 

• Too many Yellow Cards are awarded in game.

My tactics are in no way aggressive. I have no one set to close down more, or tackle harder. None of my players have the PPM likes to dive into tackle yet after 18 games i have 18 yellow cards. Granted it could be worse (my 18 yellow cards still makes me the most disciplined team in the EPL) but this is my first experience over the many editions where i see so many cards awarded. I know the ratio of 1 card per game does not seem like plenty but just coming off on FM19 where i could finish an entire season with less than 18 Yellow Cards given to my team for the season makes this seem like a bit much.

 

• My tactics can really make or break my team

I know it's almost always "your tactics" but this year i feel it is truer than previous editions. I was able to see my team struggle when there were not yet familiar with the tactics, then see them gel when familiarity increased. I can actually see how Team Instruction impacts the game on the pitch. And for the 1st time in my history with FM i am forced to adapt and tweak my tactics depending on who i am playing against (i hated it at first but its grown on me and adds to the realism). Not only that but PPMs... I have Pepe on my squad (only until the end of the season, i have no idea why Emery actually bought him) anywho Pepe has the run with ball down the right PPM trait but he is Left Footed and Natural on the right wing. In FM20 even though i play him on the right wing as an IF(s) or IW(s) there are many times where you would see his PPM "override" the Team and Player Instructions making PPMs a major part of your tactics. This year more than any other before the wrong player in the wrong role, system and tactic can be costly.

 

 

• It's not revolutionary but the small steps make it a good edition

Yes in my opinion (and my games) there are too many Yellow Cards being issued, Yes i am nauseated at times with the amount of highlights i see where my Wingers, Inside Forwards and Inverted Wingers get into the box with an opportunity to make a low cross, square ball or pass to a teammate for an almost 100% clear cut goal scoring chance only to shoot it into the net and Yes i was hoping for a more revolutionary update to 2019 but inspite of all that, after playing my first half season i am happy with the game overall, cannot wait to beat my record hours of 3,178 (on FM16) and more importantly i am eager to take the gunners back to winning ways and incredible experiences over the next year with FM20.

[Etebaer]

I have already conceeded some Goals from this Kind of goalkick as they oposing strikers can be pretty close to press the defenders and advance them very quick (from right outside the box they can reach the defenders almost the same time the ball does) getting the ball close to the 6 Yard line scoring a sure goal - also there is no depth of play if 8 Players are placed below the 20 Yard line while the strikers are isolated which gives no advantage at all imho.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Etebaer

[stevemc]

The manager haircuts need some work, tried every single combination and not one looks right, or looks realistic. Most look like they've been plonked on and don't look part of the figure. Most the options pre-date the 80's mullets. I mean, what on earth is this? Imagine you went the barbers and they sorted you out with one of these.

It's 2019, I've literally seen better models/graphics/textures 10-15 years ago.

Also, why can't I give myself a a long beard? Closest option is a bit of stubble.

It's not a game breaker, as I'll just upload a manager photo, but it's not great is it.

Edited November 30, 2019 by stevemc

[renold]

the match engine is just shocking its the worst its been in years

[Etebaer]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb stevemc:

The manager haircuts need some work, tried every single combination and not one looks right, or looks realistic. Most look like they've been plonked on and don't look part of the figure. Most the options pre-date the 80's mullets. I mean, what on earth is this? Imagine you went the barbers and they sorted you out with one of these.

It's 2019, I've literally seen better models/graphics/textures 10-15 years ago.

Also, why can't I give myself a a long beard? Closest option is a bit of stubble.

It's not a game breaker, as I'll just upload a manager photo, but it's not great is it.

And if you make your Avatar weight more than 93kg (i.e. lets say 100kg) the neck will Clip out of the Shirt so you are forced to wear a Suit.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

54 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

And if you make your Avatar weight more than 93kg (i.e. lets say 100kg) the neck will Clip out of the Shirt so you are forced to wear a Suit.

If you put your weight down as 90kg you look obese, when you could invariably be slim/muscular at that weight. 

I always go and make myself underweight on FM's manager avatar as I'm nowhere near the obese portrayal they put out at that weight category. 

[Viking]

2 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

If you put your weight down as 90kg you look obese, when you could invariably be slim/muscular at that weight. 

I always go and make myself underweight on FM's manager avatar as I'm nowhere near the obese portrayal they put out at that weight category. 

Same here. I am 113 kilograms of sexy muscles. Put that weight in FM and you look like a meatball in a suit.

[JamieTC13]

16 hours ago, sorrenmills said:

Going back to my long-running FM17 save until such time as they patch this hot mess. Suffering from all the things listed here including, but not limited to:

• Brainless wingers/fullbacks shooting constantly from the byline instead of crossing/cutbacks
• Continual missing of one on ones
• Absolutely peppering opposing goals with shots (I'm averaging at least 30+ shots per game) and yet barely scraping wins due to low conversion rates
• Utterly ineffectual midfield passing

And so forth and so on. Just for giggles I edited and added Mbappe, Messi and Dembele to my team. Messi is only scoring for penalties and the occasional free-kick otherwise he wouldn't have scored at all this season, Mbappe is utter dogsh*t and can't seem to hit a barn door (last game played he missed 3 penalties) and Dembele absolutely refuses to pass to anyone.

I'm having exactly the same issue mate the constant one on one misses are a joke and the conversion rate is terrible 

[fidelitywars]

OK, so coming towards the end of my first season with Leeds and whilst results have been very good, enjoyment has been fleeting at best.

The main issue is that creative passing in the final third is non-existent; deeper playmakers actually show vision/quality and i've scored a few nice goals where forwards have been picked out nicely from deep. However, more advanced creative players offer almost nothing offensively from open play and as such, wide players and especially, strikers are uninvolved and games can be grimly soporific, especially as teams pretty much all set up in the most joyless, defensive shapes imaginable as like I say, results have been positive. It's really not unknown to see zero chances created in games and whilst an element of that is doubtless tactical, it's nonsense to suggest it all is; fundamentally, talented teams will create chances against poor teams and poor teams should not be able to so easily stifle significantly better ones - but as typically, better teams are better because they have more technical, intelligent players and as these aspects count for little in-game, the tools to break down defensive sides just do not exist with any level of consistency.

The most galling aspect is that results/goalscorers/assist numbers do tally; my team scores, my goalscorers get decent (if not spectacular) numbers and my playmaker gets assists.... the trouble is that this is almost entirely down to set-pieces added to the odd moment of inspiration (solo goals/long shots) and never owing to cohesive, realistic football. The number of goals from corners/free kicks is astonishing; my highly technical 170cm striker has scored more goals from corners than from through balls. The suspicion is that elements of the engine (ie many of those that make football worthwhile) have been nerfed in order to cynically balance the numbers by allowing set pieces to pick up the bill, making for a truly tedious experience, entirely absent of any sort of immersion.

Seems to be the case for the past few FMs that the ME just can't represent modern football faithfully; these issues were present in FM19 (the only FM i've ever just given up with) and even following a year of rework, they remain so sadly, it seems that barring a total rewrite of the ME (presumably years of dev effort) they're unlikely to be resolved satisfactorily. Dare say that for some tactical styles, the engine is fine but for anyone seeking to play patient, possession-based, high-line, pressing football, frustration and ultimately boredom awaits.

[fidelitywars]

Also, anybody else confused as to why the in-match team stats screen doesn't show the number of shots or dribbles players have completed? Surely those are more important offensive stats than headers? Seems strange.

[steviemay17]

First time I've been able to play it for a prolonged period and compelte a few seasons. my christ the 1v1 thing is bad, unwelcome return from the only time they are scored is the weird animation where you wait for the striker and keeper to colide only for the attacker to hammer it through the keeper. no picking a spot, dinking it.

That and wing play is pointless. It's not really enjoyable to play, just a case of managing your tactics to restrict and exploit match engine tendencies .

[penza]

Is the code of conduct amended by AI managers for AI teams? Is there a preset or it depends on their stats?

[luigiluigi]

Just got a new 14 year main sponsorship deal

 

That not a bit excessive?

[sporadicsmiles]

I just had a game postponed for a waterlogged pitch on the day of the match. This has never happened to me before. Not sure if it is a new thing or not, but it is kinda cool. 

[autohoratio]

7 hours ago, stevemc said:

The manager haircuts need some work, tried every single combination and not one looks right, or looks realistic. Most look like they've been plonked on and don't look part of the figure. Most the options pre-date the 80's mullets. I mean, what on earth is this? Imagine you went the barbers and they sorted you out with one of these.

Spoiler

It's 2019, I've literally seen better models/graphics/textures 10-15 years ago.

Also, why can't I give myself a a long beard? Closest option is a bit of stubble.

It's not a game breaker, as I'll just upload a manager photo, but it's not great is it.

I made a bug report when the beta was released on the terrible hairstyles. So many of them clipped through the skin for some reason, or were seperated from the skin at the side of the head so you could see the background through the gap! The 3D Modelling for managers feels unbelievably rushed and unthorough. Aditionally, who made the decision to have only 4 or 5 skin tones for managers when players can have 20 or so? And the same can go for the lack of hair colours, you can't have a realistic blonde/light brown, or white hair.

[ExeChris]

Played the demo and I am truly dreadful at it.  I'm Exeter and had a horrific start to the season, bumbling along about 5th bottom, I kept getting the message to say that this could be my last game and the club were looking at my position, but I had a bit of a rally and was unbeaten in 6 games including a victory in the 2nd round of the FA cup which pleased the board - I lost the next game a bit unluckily and was sacked after a board meeting!  There aren't many (lower-level) clubs who would sack their manager after 1 defeat in 7 games surely?

[craigcwwe]

48 minutes ago, luigiluigi said:

Just got a new 14 year main sponsorship deal

 

That not a bit excessive?

I dunno, Newcastle once gave Alan Pardew an 8 year contract when they finished 5th in the PL one season.