Does the AI work out your tactics mid-game?

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

Say I change my tactics for a game, for example I focus play down the right hand side. Will the AI cotton on to this mid-game and adapt?

[FrazT]

You would expect that a human manager will catch on fairly quickly, so I would expect that AI manager to do the same.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Generally, the AI only really adapts to scenarios in game, as opposed to human tactical changes.  If they are losing, they may switch to a more attacking mentality and vice versa for example. 

Although it's always interesting keeping the opposition formation tab open during a match, they can sometimes make a LOT of changes. 

[Svenc]

Not systematically likely, as the more casual playerbase may throw a tantrum. In fact, even AI Guardiola typically won't overly react to when he's shipping balls over the top over and over in a specific match (he has an aggressive value in d-line in the db). And on FM20, he may do such quite regularly.  

The flipside of this is that this actually randomizes seasons as to FM... if the AI ever systematically stops something, it's typically always by research and chance. E.g. The Player smashes that top team 4-0, and then wonders how the relegation battler set up to defend his system better can make life this difficult for his. It's typically because the AI in question "prefers" a formation better suited against his as of the db, and taking a generally approach better suited -- e.g. sitting deep as his side is the match underdog, which also may happen to exploit the player's aggressive tactics better.

FM Live back then was a totally different and all new playing experience, and even SI staff made statements supporting such (naturally, the AI was still more simple than what's in now). I think SI may have learned a lesson from its failure on this topic in particular.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Svenc

[ExeChris]

I find very regularly teams I have dominated in the first half turn it round completely in the second half without an obvious change in shape / tactics.

[Welshace]

From the devs:  

"The AI does not 'work out tactics'. What can sometimes change tactically is that AI teams depending on your own club's league table position and form, will look at you differently. For instance, if you're say a team like say Bournemouth in the Premier League, a large number of teams, certainly in the top 8 will look at them and consider their own team to be stronger. Because of this they're likely to play attacking formations. Mid-table sides likewise will realise they're stronger on paper and again will attack, but may take a slightly more cautious approach when they're the away team. Lower ranked Premier teams will likely play a balanced formation home and away.

Then let's say by January in your first season, Bournemouth are 5th in the table and have won impressive victories. The AI managers will look at this and realise you shouldn't be underestimated. Teams will be more likely to play a defensive counter based style when coming to play at Bournemouth and be more balanced overall.

Mid and certainly lower sides in the table will play defensively. This means a tactic you had working fine for the entire system is suddenly playing against totally different tactics than in the first half of the season. Many human managers assume that if their tactic is working there's never a need to change it, but fail to take into account the fact the AI will adapt as the season goes on. Tactics however, as said above are not individually 'worked out'.

"Why should i have to change things after so many games?... If it's not broke, why fix it?"

A manager has to realise they will need to adapt and improve their squad as time goes on. You can't just plug in a tactic, press continue and expect to win every game. The user already has a pretty large advantage over the AI when it comes to squad building (as simply the AI is never going to have as many options or be as smart as the user until we make huge technological advances in AI), but you can't expect one tactic to work against every combination of team and setup."

 

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

So the AI doesn’t look at how you’re playing mid-game and adapt to counter it? They just look at your league position??

Thats pretty disappointing tbh

[ExeChris]

On 29/12/2019 at 15:14, ExeChris said:

I find very regularly teams I have dominated in the first half turn it round completely in the second half without an obvious change in shape / tactics.

Just looked at my stats and it is so depressing.  Last 20 league matches I've scored 10 goals and conceded 16.  First half is For 7 and Against 7, second half is For 3 and against 9.

edit - Last 15 league games I have not scored a second half goal.  My team aren't that unfit, just that second half I struggle massively...

[Rashidi]

5 hours ago, oi_oi_ginger_roy said:

So the AI doesn’t look at how you’re playing mid-game and adapt to counter it? They just look at your league position??

Thats pretty disappointing tbh

Adapting to how you are playing isn't something the AI may do, what it does react to are in game events like a sending off or a score change. If the AI expects to beat you perhaps at a specific point in the game it may decide to adjust its tactic because the score is level. You can easily see how the AI changes its approach by paying attention to in game commentary and looking at the formation of the AI using the match analysis tools.

[thehig2]

Not sure sometimes what's behind its decision making, but in some games it keeps constantly changing tactics and making adjustments almost every 10-15 minutes of a game 

[Svenc]

3 hours ago, thehig2 said:

Not sure sometimes what's behind its decision making, but in some games it keeps constantly changing tactics and making adjustments almost every 10-15 minutes of a game 

Rolling the tactical dice and seeing whether it's eventually lucking out.  

[bleventozturk]

I wish AI could would be able to show some basic reactions to the changes that the human manager does though. Human managers can do some small tweaks/corrections to the player roles depending on how the opponent is lined up and playing, and that certainly gives a huge advantage to the human managed teams. For example AI should be able to adjust their defensive width from their default one, regardless of the score at that point, depending on how the human manager is attacking them, what formation the human manager is using, etc. It can be even hard coded to some degree, some no brainer choices at least, such as when the opponent switches to a narrow attacking formation with 3 AMC's or 3 strikers and you start defending narrower too to accommodate.

[bleventozturk]

2 hours ago, Svenc said:

Rolling the tactical dice and seeing whether it's eventually lucking out.  

Is that really what AI is doing with those continuous changes, or are you just joking?

[thehig2]

34 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Is that really what AI is doing with those continuous changes, or are you just joking?

He might be joking, but it does feel like that.

Some of the changes they make I don't see how it would benefit from 

[Svenc]

39 minutes ago, bleventozturk said:

Is that really what AI is doing with those continuous changes, or are you just joking?

Partly joking but realistically it depends on your definition of luck, I guess…  Since the AI cannot read a match as such... It's the same with wholesale changes at HT when "Things aren't working" AKA "The result at HT the AI doesn't like". It's a switch to some plan B. 

It also depends what triggers the changes. Going more attacking after an opposition lead and then going more cautioius again upon equalizing is logical. Simply making changes however, is simply making changes for the sake of changes. Can work, but the AI has limitations. SI have also coded in a tendency that AI managers under pressure may consider changing their favorite formations IIRC. To me that's not so much an intelligent plan, but a desperate measure. Then again, under pressure managers are under pressure managers, so some deperation is to be expected.