4-4-2 Modern - Control and Attack Space

[jjacopo]

Il 18/4/2020 in 13:10 , thegoon65 ha scritto:

Window closed and have managed to bring in the players needed to expand my squad. 2 big spends for Ipswich anyway and also heavily focused on youth, excellent pre season using only the original 442 and the against harder teams version.

Pre Season plenty of clean sheets 

Transfers

Central Midfielder (Defend) Cover Player

Pressing Forward (Attack) Star Player

Central Defender (Defend) Cover Only

Central Midfield (Defend) Cover Only

Defender Right/Left Back (Support/Attack) Cover Only

Wide Playmaker Right (Support) Big Buy, Needs to be trained for the role but looks a natural.

Defender Centre (Defend) Cover but a wonderkid.

2 future transfers both young and wonderkids

Feel free to comment but I'm very pleased with what I have got again a tight £50m budget and think I've spent well.

which skin is this?

[kr10]

On 17/06/2020 at 14:05, zemaniano85 said:

Guys, I live the 442, and having good time with it... But when I face the 532, especially when playing in italy and my team is over achieving, I struggle to get my strikers score. Any tips? Thanks 

The issue with the 3 back is that is was in a way designed to play against 2 striker tactics, due to the spare man. 
 

the wide areas, particularly where the fullbacks overlap the WP, should provide a 2 vs 1 overload vs 3 back formations. 
 

in that regard, tall strikers tend to be quite useful (on both strikers), given that the tactic produces a lot of crosses. 

[kr10]

On 01/08/2020 at 15:41, yuchd said:

Very reasonable tactic and get very good result with Milan, is there any updates for new version?

I fired up FM last week and no major changes, except that I dropped defensive line back to slightly higher instead of much higher. 
 

Other than that I think the base tactic I posted works fine, you can always make tweaks based on the players at your disposal and opponent characteristics 

[Tsuru]

Hi @kr10. I would like to thank you for the insights, I like the 442 and your ideas helped me a lot on designing my own system. 

I did a few tweaks on the passing system. Based on a previous save, I like my teams to use speed to evade the oponents´ pressure, passing around and then when the space appears we hit them very quickly. So Instead of using Short Passes, I chose "Dribble Less" and asked the team to play on a Higher Tempo. 

I am still testing it, but the first match was excellent, the team did exactly what I wanted and we won 2-0 playing very well. The team passed around and space appeared many times on the flanks, so the Fullback and the Winger had plenty of room to put the ball into box.

I am also testing a F9 and Poacher up front due to my players´ profiles, I think it suits the quick style and can also help on stretching tough defenses. I will let you know the results as we play more matches and against different teams.

[kr10]

On 08/08/2020 at 16:01, Tsuru said:

Hi @kr10. I would like to thank you for the insights, I like the 442 and your ideas helped me a lot on designing my own system. 

I did a few tweaks on the passing system. Based on a previous save, I like my teams to use speed to evade the oponents´ pressure, passing around and then when the space appears we hit them very quickly. So Instead of using Short Passes, I chose "Dribble Less" and asked the team to play on a Higher Tempo. 

I am still testing it, but the first match was excellent, the team did exactly what I wanted and we won 2-0 playing very well. The team passed around and space appeared many times on the flanks, so the Fullback and the Winger had plenty of room to put the ball into box.

I am also testing a F9 and Poacher up front due to my players´ profiles, I think it suits the quick style and can also help on stretching tough defenses. I will let you know the results as we play more matches and against different teams.

Nice to hear. Taking the baseline tactic and tweaking it based on your philosophies and players is definitely the right approach here. 
 

I made a thread about this earlier but FM doesn’t seem to have a “second striker” role - for example, someone like Griezzman. The PIs are similar to a False 9, but the F9 role seems to be built for a lone striker system. The DLF role on the other hand has hold up ball hard coded, which seems to suit stronger physical forwards, such as Giroud or Dzeko. I’d like to see a “second striker” role available in the ST slot to better recreate the type of behavior I’d like to see. 
 

Regarding passing and tempo - I initially had tempo and passing range both set at standard - however, in big CL away games against top sides, I found that the team gave possession away far too cheaply on many occasions. However, the more aggressive approach worked great in all other games. 
 

In order to make the tactic more pragmatic and stable in those huge, season defining games, I added in shorter passing and defend narrower, which has helped a lot. Just something to keep in mind. 

[Tsuru]

On 10/08/2020 at 07:39, kr10 said:

Nice to hear. Taking the baseline tactic and tweaking it based on your philosophies and players is definitely the right approach here. 
 

I made a thread about this earlier but FM doesn’t seem to have a “second striker” role - for example, someone like Griezzman. The PIs are similar to a False 9, but the F9 role seems to be built for a lone striker system. The DLF role on the other hand has hold up ball hard coded, which seems to suit stronger physical forwards, such as Giroud or Dzeko. I’d like to see a “second striker” role available in the ST slot to better recreate the type of behavior I’d like to see. 
 

Regarding passing and tempo - I initially had tempo and passing range both set at standard - however, in big CL away games against top sides, I found that the team gave possession away far too cheaply on many occasions. However, the more aggressive approach worked great in all other games. 
 

In order to make the tactic more pragmatic and stable in those huge, season defining games, I added in shorter passing and defend narrower, which has helped a lot. Just something to keep in mind. 

Yes, your theory about the second striker would explain why the DLF has always worked better when I used two men upfront. Maybe I will test a traditional Advanced Foward, but with good jumping, heading and composure, besides a Pressing Foward - I have a very good and quick one and he scored 11 goals last season.

About tempo, I will stick to Higher Tempo and Dribble Less a little bit more and see if possession is not a problem. If I have to change this, I would just reduce tempo, as according to the reports, my team has a poor dribbling.

The idea is to improve the tactic on the next seasons and buy players with excellent First Touch, Antecipation and Positioning, in order to make the quick and slip style raise to its full potential. But first I will have to avoid relegation at Portugal´s first division. I will let you know my progress.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Tsuru

[kr10]

On 11/08/2020 at 22:10, Tsuru said:

Yes, your theory about the second striker would explain why the DLF has always worked better when I used two men upfront. Maybe I will test a traditional Advanced Foward, but with good jumping, heading and composure, besides a Pressing Foward - I have a very good and quick one and he scored 11 goals last season.

About tempo, I will stick to Higher Tempo and Dribble Less a little bit more and see if possession is not a problem. If I have to change this, I would just reduce tempo, as according to the reports, my team has a poor dribbling.

The idea is to improve the tactic on the next seasons and buy players with excellent First Touch, Antecipation and Positioning, in order to make the quick and slip style raise to its full potential. But first I will have to avoid relegation at Portugal´s first division. I will let you know my progress.

One thing to consider, it might be worth using PI dribble less and/or PPMs for bad dribbling players, rather than a TI. You don’t want your winger for example to dribble less if he has the required stats 

[Tsuru]

6 hours ago, kr10 said:

One thing to consider, it might be worth using PI dribble less and/or PPMs for bad dribbling players, rather than a TI. You don’t want your winger for example to dribble less if he has the required stats 

This is the interesting part...as the Winger has Dribble More as hard coded instruction, I am almost sure the TI doesn´t change this, and the same applies to the Advanced Foward. So although the team Dribble Less, some players do not, and this gives us the right balance. But I will confirm it on the game.

I also forgot to mention that I lowered the mentality to Balanced. So playing Balanced on a Higher Tempo gives me almost the same tempo of Positive mentality, but with lower risks.

I played four matches with the tactic, with 2 victores, 1 tie and 1 defeat, and all the goals we suffered were from free kicks or corners. This is very important because it shows me that the defense itself is doing a good job, although I can employ a higher Central Defender with better Jumping and Heading, and that I need to adjust the set pieces routine. 

I am also using a Deep Lying Foward on Support as you suggested, but during matches I have changed him for a Pressing Foward on Support when I am winning, to give the other team less time on the ball. And it has worked very well.

[kr10]

20 hours ago, Tsuru said:

This is the interesting part...as the Winger has Dribble More as hard coded instruction, I am almost sure the TI doesn´t change this, and the same applies to the Advanced Foward. So although the team Dribble Less, some players do not, and this gives us the right balance. But I will confirm it on the game.

I also forgot to mention that I lowered the mentality to Balanced. So playing Balanced on a Higher Tempo gives me almost the same tempo of Positive mentality, but with lower risks.

I played four matches with the tactic, with 2 victores, 1 tie and 1 defeat, and all the goals we suffered were from free kicks or corners. This is very important because it shows me that the defense itself is doing a good job, although I can employ a higher Central Defender with better Jumping and Heading, and that I need to adjust the set pieces routine. 

I am also using a Deep Lying Foward on Support as you suggested, but during matches I have changed him for a Pressing Foward on Support when I am winning, to give the other team less time on the ball. And it has worked very well.

On your first point, from my understating the team and personal instructions combine. So a dribble more PI and a dribble less TI will lead to something in the middle. I’m not quite sure which has more of an impact, but I’m quite sure that the team instruction will have some degree of impact. In addition, there is also PPMs which could further affect this. 
 

in any case, defensive results look solid

[Amazingortega]

This is a very good tactic defensively very solid I just went a whole season unbeaten with it and just the original arsenal team only signing was upamecano in January transfer window. My only issue is I had a lot of draws 13 in total 😂. Is there a way to set up if I really need to score a goal lots of my matches ended 1-1 or 0-0. Thanks for sharing this tactic I love it 

[kr10]

12 hours ago, Amazingortega said:

This is a very good tactic defensively very solid I just went a whole season unbeaten with it and just the original arsenal team only signing was upamecano in January transfer window. My only issue is I had a lot of draws 13 in total 😂. Is there a way to set up if I really need to score a goal lots of my matches ended 1-1 or 0-0. Thanks for sharing this tactic I love it 

Could you post your tactic? It could just be a case of not having the right Players for the roles, especially with regards to footedness and physical characteristics 

[Tsuru]

On 14/08/2020 at 10:55, kr10 said:

On your first point, from my understating the team and personal instructions combine. So a dribble more PI and a dribble less TI will lead to something in the middle. I’m not quite sure which has more of an impact, but I’m quite sure that the team instruction will have some degree of impact. In addition, there is also PPMs which could further affect this. 
 

in any case, defensive results look solid

I decided to remove Dribble Less and let the shorter passing just as you pointed, we were wasting possession too much and had defensive problems.

I am also testing a Higher Line (instead of Much Higher) as I think the riskier version puts too much pressure into our centre backs and we are a team expected not to be relegated, so the players are not the best ones.

Another tweaks I am testing: Pressing Foward Attack instead of Advanced Foward (as I have a good natural PF), the Wide Playmaker on Attack with Wingback on Support (the defense looks less exposed) and an Inverted Wingback on Support behind the Winger on Attack.

This last one has been very effective, as the Winger gets more space to operate and until now we didn´t have any defensive issues on the left side. And also because the left fullback were not doing well and I had a very good right one on the bench.

As soon as I am satisfied I will post the tactic here, but it looks very good and solid. Relegation battle is going well (a distance of seven points to the first relegated team) and I think we are going to improve a lot with better and better players on the next seasons.

I also forgot to mention that I play FM Touch, so without team talks the tactic is even more important. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Tsuru

[thehig2]

@kr10Time to test your tactic in fm2021, ive been a loyal user of this tactic since you first posted it back on fm2019. I'm Everton in PL, currently half way through season in 8th using my own tactic, will swap to yours and post with  results to follow.

[thehig2]

A little background on the team 

Its just the Everton team, with a couple of players moved on and Frimpong a very fast young right back brought in to add pace to the right hand side and give James Rodriguez a good option down the line, as Coleman hasn't got the legs for it.

Before swapping to your tactic I was on a 3 game loosing run, latest result was a thrilling but humiliating derby defeat, loosing 5-3 to Liverpool. 

So 1st game of new tactic was a home game against 6th place Leeds (were 7th) 

 

Match Report : A winning start to the tactic, according to XG I out performed Leeds and deserved the win, in reality it was a fairly close game that could gone either way. We rode our luck a few times and Olson had to pull of a few good saves. 

On the positive, Calvert Lewin was clean through on the goalkeeper twice, he should of scored at least 1. 

James Rodriguez goal from a cross by Lucas Digne that went over everyone to the far post were James volleyed home. 

So far I think this tactic may need tweeking for FM2021, but its too soon to see were, need more games. 

 

[kr10]

On 14/11/2020 at 01:56, thehig2 said:

A little background on the team 

Its just the Everton team, with a couple of players moved on and Frimpong a very fast young right back brought in to add pace to the right hand side and give James Rodriguez a good option down the line, as Coleman hasn't got the legs for it.

Before swapping to your tactic I was on a 3 game loosing run, latest result was a thrilling but humiliating derby defeat, loosing 5-3 to Liverpool. 

So 1st game of new tactic was a home game against 6th place Leeds (were 7th) 

 

Match Report : A winning start to the tactic, according to XG I out performed Leeds and deserved the win, in reality it was a fairly close game that could gone either way. We rode our luck a few times and Olson had to pull of a few good saves. 

On the positive, Calvert Lewin was clean through on the goalkeeper twice, he should of scored at least 1. 

James Rodriguez goal from a cross by Lucas Digne that went over everyone to the far post were James volleyed home. 

So far I think this tactic may need tweeking for FM2021, but its too soon to see were, need more games. 

 

As always, thanks for posting and using the tactic! 
 

I haven’t tried FM21 yet, but I’d recommend “slightly higher defensive line” instead of much higher, and support striker as DLFs. I did a lot of tweaking and this seemed to work the best. 
 

this Everton squad looks a great fit for the tactic, James as WP is tasty. 
 

Let me know how it goes, I haven’t decided yet if I’ll go with the 442 or use a 4231 (with a wide AP and winger, so similar overall movement to the 442. Striker would be CFs with AMa behind.  I’ve used the 442 in FM 19 and 20 I’m thinking of trying something A bit new with similar movements and play style 

[kr10]

On 14/11/2020 at 01:56, thehig2 said:

A little background on the team 

Its just the Everton team, with a couple of players moved on and Frimpong a very fast young right back brought in to add pace to the right hand side and give James Rodriguez a good option down the line, as Coleman hasn't got the legs for it.

Before swapping to your tactic I was on a 3 game loosing run, latest result was a thrilling but humiliating derby defeat, loosing 5-3 to Liverpool. 

So 1st game of new tactic was a home game against 6th place Leeds (were 7th) 

 

Match Report : A winning start to the tactic, according to XG I out performed Leeds and deserved the win, in reality it was a fairly close game that could gone either way. We rode our luck a few times and Olson had to pull of a few good saves. 

On the positive, Calvert Lewin was clean through on the goalkeeper twice, he should of scored at least 1. 

James Rodriguez goal from a cross by Lucas Digne that went over everyone to the far post were James volleyed home. 

So far I think this tactic may need tweeking for FM2021, but its too soon to see were, need more games. 

 

I finished 2 seasons with this tactic with Milan.

first year, tied for lead and lost on H2H.

second year, won the league narrowly and lost to Atletico in CL QF. 
 

To be honest, I don’t think the tactic works as well on FM 21 compared to FM 19 or 20. I still haven’t figured out why to be honest. Very good defensively still, but not scoring as much 

[Ewan0404]

On 13/11/2020 at 20:26, thehig2 said:

A little background on the team 

Its just the Everton team, with a couple of players moved on and Frimpong a very fast young right back brought in to add pace to the right hand side and give James Rodriguez a good option down the line, as Coleman hasn't got the legs for it.

Before swapping to your tactic I was on a 3 game loosing run, latest result was a thrilling but humiliating derby defeat, loosing 5-3 to Liverpool. 

So 1st game of new tactic was a home game against 6th place Leeds (were 7th) 

 

Match Report : A winning start to the tactic, according to XG I out performed Leeds and deserved the win, in reality it was a fairly close game that could gone either way. We rode our luck a few times and Olson had to pull of a few good saves. 

On the positive, Calvert Lewin was clean through on the goalkeeper twice, he should of scored at least 1. 

James Rodriguez goal from a cross by Lucas Digne that went over everyone to the far post were James volleyed home. 

So far I think this tactic may need tweeking for FM2021, but its too soon to see were, need more games. 

 

This is very similar to my Everton tactic. Our build up seems good but we're struggling to get the strikers scoring consistently. 

[kr10]

18 hours ago, Ewan0404 said:

This is very similar to my Everton tactic. Our build up seems good but we're struggling to get the strikers scoring consistently. 

It’s season 3 and the tactic has been clicking well. I’ve also had issues with my support striker, but I’ve found that what helps with the support striker is finding someone with the same strong foot as the side he’s on (STCL, left footed). This makes a big difference as most of the shots from the left slot come on the left foot.

Also, the accuracy and prevalence of headed goals seems quite low in the new ME

[LowestLeagueHero]

A little late to the party but I'd like to thank you for both an incredibly interesting and insightful read and a wonderfully working tactic.

 

And I'd like to confirm that this tactic works with weaker players, too.

I am eight seasons into an LLM-/journeyman-save (FM 20) which started in the fifth tier in Luxembourg.

Here you cannot rely on parent clubs, profitable cup runs (WINNING the major domestic cup nets a whooping 40k :D) or preseason friendlies to fix your finances.

Even in the top league there are only semiprofessional clubs, TV money in top tier is ~150k/year.

So in short you will have to rely on cheap, expendable players which in return are not blessed with great stats.

After five years of crawling up the ladder with a local "village club" (Gasperich) I got (mid-season) offered the job at FOLA Esch (oldest club in Luxembourg), which I gladly accepted.

Still though, my "star" players have stats like 7 finishing for strikers or 10 tackling for defenders

The last 18 months I spent (via hundreds of trials, playing LLM after all) assembling a team of players with at least 10 determination and at least 8 in decisions, teamwork, passing, pace, vision, concentration, natural fitness etc - the basic attributes of each and every susscessful tactic as far as my experience goes.

My Alter Ego in this save is stuck with playing 442 (and I as a player don't like Tiki Taka pass orgies, I want quick direct attacks).

So for the whole duration of this save I am tweaking 442 variants back and forth.

Direct counter with fullbacks on support, DLP (d) and BBM (s), two simple wingers (one on attack, one on support) and a pressing forward (s)/poacher combination served me well with Gasperich ... but FOLA is one of the big players in the league so I suddenly struggled with teams playing counter against me.

Nothing worked consistently (although I often won, it appeared like sheer undeserved luck often enough), so I cast around for 442 insight, FM-20-wise.

Having read your wonderfully detailed explanation I decided to give your tactic a go.

And what can I say?

It's as if my team suddenly consists of players with waaaay more talent.

I see "killer passes" and direct attacks so forceful that make me grin like an idiot, just because they are so beautiful to watch.

My back four all of a sudden work beautifully together, "two banks of four" has become a common sight.

It's simply great, overall.

I do not suddenly win everything, of course. I dropped out of the qualifiers for the European Conference League group stage just recently - but only in the fourth round (winning two ties before, against Quarabag for example :O ) and I lost against a Sporting Braga side which are so overwhelmingly strong (compared to my squad) that winning this tie would have felt like using gegenpress.

 

I rarely win with more than two goals ahead, I also am threatened with defeat against virtually all sides in Luxembourgs top tier, at least if I'm not playing attention to how the opposition approaches in every given match.

 

But (and that is a gargantuan "but"!) I have never in all my FM years seen so incredibly enjoyable football so consistently.

 

So thank you again - for the tactic, for the article, for the joy of watching my team being simply entertaining, for the idea of finally, after all those years, using a wide playmaker ...

 

... hats off to you.

I owe you one.

(And FOLA Esch ows you as well as we managed to win the double last season - one point ahead in the league and winning the cup final by a "three passes from own goalie to opposition net" counter goal in the 117th minute. )

Edited November 5, 2021 by LowestLeagueHero

[Joey Numbaz]

Raising this from the dead, but I love this tactic. I'm using it on FM22 and doing very well. Of course you need the right players. Check this out from the Advanced Analysis reports:

We got a ton of shots, though they aren't always great shots. On a lucky day we'll have 1.5 xG and 4-5 goals. On a rough day we'll have 2 xG and no goals.

Also look at this - the defense is extremely solid despite no DM, and support and attack duty fullbacks:



We never dribble, despite having pretty good dribblers.



We don't win the ball in their half much, but that' not an issue:

We are very hard to break down ... note, we don't have a lot of tackles, interceptions, or blocks. And an average number of interceptions. But we concede 2/3 of the xG and half the goals of an average team. And this isn't because we play keep away with the ball. We have 54% possession on average.

I do have a really good roster, we won the Champions League the year before playing a 541. But we only finished 2nd/3rd with 83/82 points the last two year in the EPL, we aren't some insane super team. We are second again this year through 24 games. City (coached by Klopp since 22-23) is still really tough and going for a 3-peat.



Anyway, thanks @kr10this one is a lot of fun.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Joey Numbaz

[Mutumba]

Look at your team tho! You're bleeding Everton and youve got Angelo, Gravenberch, Luis, Olise, Felix, Onana, Dest, Ahmedhodzic, Rice, Tonali

 

How are you even able to tell if the results are justdue to  you having a f all team or if its the tactic?

[coach vahid]

Il y a 5 heures, Mutumba a dit :

Look at your team tho! You're bleeding Everton and youve got Angelo, Gravenberch, Luis, Olise, Felix, Onana, Dest, Ahmedhodzic, Rice, Tonali

 

How are you even able to tell if the results are justdue to  you having a f all team or if its the tactic?

I played with this tactic on fm19 (i don't know how it works on 21,22 or 23). And i had very good results with not the best players. It's not a cheating tactic. But a well balanced tactic.

[One hell of a keeper]

Can someone please convert the original with all settings into a current tactic file please? Going off the originally supplied screenshot you can only go so far with it. Unsure if there are any settings that im missing. Thanks in advance if you are able to do so!

[tropicsafc]

Just keyed in the original tactic on 24 and having a stellar season.

[TheMartello]

2 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

Just keyed in the original tactic on 24 and having a stellar season.

Care to share?

[tropicsafc]

Well if you just go back to page 1 and copy what you see into a blank tactic then voila.

[carloshcorbalan]

The blank links on page 1 CANNOT be loaded in the game.
Please correct.

[Jaffa]

He means copy the instructions/pictures of the tactic YOURSELF in to a generic blank tactic in the current game.   I assume English isn't your first language so fair play, look at the original post and create it yourself my good Sir.