Is The Game Too Easy?

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

But it's not remedied if the game is changed so that players you're trying to sign pay more attention to positions you already have in your team than your squad status offer, as the poster I was replying to suggested

Both should be considered  tbh. Maybe it would even help the AI and prevent them from stock piling positions. 

If you have 4 wingers listed as first team starters and  then promise that 5 guy the same role, he shouldn't really Favor your team unless you're over paying.

[Brighton123]

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Very easy for an attempted implementation to screw up perfectly reasonable transfers though. The extra defender you want to switch to a back three refusing to sign because you already have two first choice defenders. The AMR you want to rejig your forward line refusing to sign because two star forwards you want to shift positions currently play AMR. The 17 year old you want as a long term replacement for a player you'll definitely be forced to sell within a season or two refusing to sign because you haven't sold him yet. The keeper you want to sign because your current one makes too many mistakes not believing he'll be first choice because the other one started every game last season. The player that thinks Ozil is an integral part of your squad because he has a high reputation.

None of this is stuff players will thank SI for implementing. and FM is bad enough at getting players available on freebies contracts elsewhere without them refusing to sign for clubs that have better players. 

It's not like sides don't stockpile IRL. If you don't want a loan farm because it's too easy to make a profit on, don't sign one. If you don't want to lie to players about their squad status, don't do it.

Quite clearly it wouldn't be as black and white as the examples that I have given. There would have to be player/agent interaction with discussions/promises to be made to help sway the player on some occasions. The same sort of player interaction logic is already built in for other scenarios such as training and match performance. There are also promises at contract level but without the actual conversation and a player turning round and not believing you.

- 'The extra defender you want to switch to a back three refusing to sign because you already have two first choice defenders.' - Input: 'we're planning a change of formation to accommodate you and/or players of your position' ; 'I think you have qualities the current players don't have that I can use'. Output- Promotes good, neutral or negative reaction after deciding whether they will get what they want, e.g. playing time, or whether they really believe you. 

What I'm suggesting might well be overkill but there needs to be something to limit the human user and that could well be enhanced player/agent AI. 

Yeah I could just not stockpile, or lie about a squad status, but like I said, I know I can with barely any repercussions for doing so. Not everyone has complete restraint to apply real life to computer game. And as a form simulator, I want FM to do that for me. 

[enigmatic]

16 minutes ago, Brighton123 said:

Quite clearly it wouldn't be as black and white as the examples that I have given. There would have to be player/agent interaction with discussions/promises to be made to help sway the player on some occasions. The same sort of player interaction logic is already built in for other scenarios such as training and match performance. There are also promises at contract level but without the actual conversation and a player turning round and not believing you.

- 'The extra defender you want to switch to a back three refusing to sign because you already have two first choice defenders.' - Input: 'we're planning a change of formation to accommodate you and/or players of your position' ; 'I think you have qualities the current players don't have that I can use'. Output- Promotes good, neutral or negative reaction after deciding whether they will get what they want, e.g. playing time, or whether they really believe you. 

What I'm suggesting might well be overkill but there needs to be something to limit the human user and that could well be enhanced player/agent AI. 

Yeah I could just not stockpile, or lie about a squad status, but like I said, I know I can with barely any repercussions for doing so. Not everyone has complete restraint to apply real life to computer game. And as a form simulator, I want FM to do that for me. 

I get what you're saying and in theory telling players your expectations in more detail at transfer time is a realism improvement for other reasons, but the reality is this sort of interaction is nearly always buggy (honestly, SI would be better off deleting half the promises than trying to make them work more consistently) and its a lot of potentially game-breaking interactions to introduce to stop the handful of players that both stockpile talent and wish stockpiling talent didn't work. The repercussion for signing a player you don't need is that he complains and may demand a transfer, in life as in FM. Not sure adding new repercussions like players that you do need being upset because they don't identify your promised formation change or altogether refuse to sign because the player you want to replace is upset with you is an enhancement

I'm not even sure it's that realistic to prevent stockpiling. Clubs like Chelsea and Juventus have more players out on loan than they have in their first team squad and don't struggle to attract new signings

[Freakiie]

For a lot of people that have thousands of hours in FM the game is too easy. But then again, which game isn't too easy after thousands of hours? Once you know every little trick in the book, optimize every bit of what you can actively influence and know exactly how the AI works, how do you expect to get challenged by any game? There simply is a limit to how difficult a game can be made, without artificially inflating difficulty. Yet, most of the time this is brought up and that people should artificially limit themselves people put their heels in the sand saying that that's not how it should be. But, realistically any kind of higher difficulty would be something artificial. You can't just magic better AI out your hat. A game like Civ doesn't make the AI better when you crank up the difficulty to Deity (Is that still the max difficulty?), it simply gives the AI massive advantages, which in the end has the exact same result as limiting yourself. Making the AI artificially stronger than you can be.

While there are definitely areas I would like SI to look at, suggesting that they simply add a difficulty slider (What the heck would that even do?!) or magic an AI out of their hat that can actually challenge the players that have played FM for years, if not decades with thousands, if not tens of thousands hours sunk into the game... unfortunately is just not realistic.

[Mars_Blackmon]

23 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

For a lot of people that have thousands of hours in FM the game is too easy. But then again, which game isn't too easy after thousands of hours? Once you know every little trick in the book, optimize every bit of what you can actively influence and know exactly how the AI works, how do you expect to get challenged by any game? There simply is a limit to how difficult a game can be made, without artificially inflating difficulty. Yet, most of the time this is brought up and that people should artificially limit themselves people put their heels in the sand saying that that's not how it should be. But, realistically any kind of higher difficulty would be something artificial. You can't just magic better AI out your hat. A game like Civ doesn't make the AI better when you crank up the difficulty to Deity (Is that still the max difficulty?), it simply gives the AI massive advantages, which in the end has the exact same result as limiting yourself. Making the AI artificially stronger than you can be.

While there are definitely areas I would like SI to look at, suggesting that they simply add a difficulty slider (What the heck would that even do?!) or magic an AI out of their hat that can actually challenge the players that have played FM for years, if not decades with thousands, if not tens of thousands hours sunk into the game... unfortunately is just not realistic.

Because with FM it's about fixing loopholes, exploits and wanting things like injuries and fatigue not being nerfed among other things that is not implemented we'll that naturally makes the game easy.

[Mars_Blackmon]

With recruitment meetings (setting depth) and asking agents about availability (unsettling players even more) seems to be a step in the right direction. I can imagine having a lot of depth and AI teams unsettling my players and poaching some of them especially if I am a smaller club.

 

Having a positive or negative relationship with agents could actually matter now.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I dunno. 

I don't find it as easy as I would like it to be tbf. I think it varies wildly across the fanbase and I think the opinion will be broad whether you're casual or a hardcore tactics guru.

One thing I will always stand by (until its fixed) is that the game is still too easy to slapdash a super-aggressive, attacking tactic and just win, even with 40 shots, 2 on target sort of results. I know my newphew just throws three up top exploits, and just goes super duper attacking, to the point he should be wildly exposed in midfield and defence, but never is in game. When I see people say it's too 'easy', it's either 1. Tactical experts (a minority) or 2. Tactical gung-ho weirdness that shouldn't make sense in principle. 2 is massively common in tactics forums across the internet where misinformation runs rampant away from these forums. (I am generalising though.)

 

I have my best success with the game when I play boring 4-4-2's, since you can't really go *that* wrong with a 4-4-2, but I still find the game frustrating, unintuitive and bloated, which can add to the difficulty and shorten my patience. 

 

I would like to see exploit/gung-ho tactics nerfed into the ground, but with more safer, sensible tactical set ups rewarding people with good results. But for overall difficulty, I don't know how to approach fixing it, or balancing it so to speak. Perhaps some under the hood options to influence things in the background - but I'm pretty sure that idea was ruled out a while back.

[jay5000]

Hello,

I find this way too easy which makes it almost boring now after 1.5 seasons.
I started in the 3rd league in Germany with an average to good team for this league. Financially, only free transfers are possible.
And despite these conditions I have dominated the 3rd league without problems and with only 1 defeat and at the end 20 points ahead of the promotion.
In the 2nd Bundesliga, I could also only perform free transfers and the team would be highest below mediocrity. But here again I dominate the league. In the first 15 games I have already again 14 wins and 1 defeat. The promotion is now almost certain... The opponents hardly get a chance to score. I can actually put up who I want, it is almost completely indifferent. It's getting really boring and I'm almost afraid that next season I'll be champion in the Bundesliga with this team

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by jay5000

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

If the game was "realistic" you would take over teams like Dover and youd be stuck at Vanarama and league 2 level forever. Unless a wealthy chairman came on board and you spent a lot, and you cant even do that now either, look at Salford.

If the game truly was "realistic" in its difficulty, youd not have a clue how to manage the team, and youd get really bored.

Thats my take on it.

[Mcfc1894]

37 minutes ago, Lesterfan_Cambiasso said:

If the game was "realistic" you would take over teams like Dover and youd be stuck at Vanarama and league 2 level forever. Unless a wealthy chairman came on board and you spent a lot, and you cant even do that now either, look at Salford.

If the game truly was "realistic" in its difficulty, youd not have a clue how to manage the team, and youd get really bored.

Thats my take on it.

That would be great though imo would feel like a great achievement if you finally overachieve what expected of you. Games are meant to challange you and make you think especially a simulation game right now you don't really have to do anything but put in an attacking tactic and you will 90% of the time overachieve no matter the players or tactics you come up against.  

[Mars_Blackmon]

29 minutes ago, Mcfc1894 said:

That would be great though imo would feel like a great achievement if you finally overachieve what expected of you. Games are meant to challange you and make you think especially a simulation game right now you don't really have to do anything but put in an attacking tactic and you will 90% of the time overachieve no matter the players or tactics you come up against.  

Agreed. Lol since when have challenging became a bad thing? Takes like the one above is why there seems to be a need for participation trophies.

[jborges]

too easy, too much goals---

[Gee_Simpson]

6 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

but put in an attacking tactic and you will 90% of the time overachieve no matter the players or tactics you come up against.  

In terms of attacking, do you mean the mentality itself? 

[Mcfc1894]

1 hour ago, Gee_Simpson said:

In terms of attacking, do you mean the mentality itself? 

No more the team instructions Especially high defensive role and high press and player roles 

[Gee_Simpson]

36 minutes ago, Mcfc1894 said:

No more the team instructions Especially high defensive role and high press and player roles 

Ah okay. It's a shame I feel bad for using those settings but tbh it's what I love to see irl so I don't feel like I should have to play less aggressive for the sake of it. Even if they patched the game to nerf those settings I would still use them because as I said, I love watching aggressive football and if I was a real manager I would want my team playing that way 😅. I guess because it's so popular among the top teams nowadays, SI have made it easier to achieve in FM. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Gee_Simpson

[priority76]

8 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

That would be great though imo would feel like a great achievement if you finally overachieve what expected of you. Games are meant to challange you and make you think especially a simulation game right now you don't really have to do anything but put in an attacking tactic and you will 90% of the time overachieve no matter the players or tactics you come up against.  

Maybe the challenge for you is to not overachieve.

[Gouranga]

No, 

[chris31k]

Im over performing with every team but to me its normal. I played 250 hours in every iteration for years. Would be a shame if i struggled to be successful in 22. To me theres 2 major concerns :

first FM is too much of a rewarding game and not enough a punishing one. Theres a Big problem on thé gameplay balancing. You play with a bunch of wonderkids : okay but you have to pay thé price of the lack of consistency, expérience, composure, cohesion,etc...in FM you get rewarded for having young talents but never punished. Same thing for the tactics. If you play over agressive tactic putting 4 guys UP front pressing like madness you will get rewarded. But not get punished with player stamina dropping, counter attacking, or players with low teamwork not fitting thé system and breaking thé pressing synchronisation. I feel like FM has one way to be successful and all thé others are wrong. 

and second, it lacks of dynamics. You Can manage tactics, recruitment, staff, players interaction choosing one path and sticking to it for years. Nothing will come to disturb your peacefull way to success. I would love to be chalenged by unpredictable évents like players conflicts, recruitment restrictions by the board, players unhappy for not playing CL matches, player private problems(divorce, media harrasment,etc)

Edited November 20, 2021 by chris31k

[JPChenet]

Game way too easy all the time corners and throw-ins remain like this.

[SpS_Zen]

il y a 4 minutes, JPChenet a dit :

Game way too easy all the time corners and throw-ins remain like this.

May be don't play with the constant objective to IA exploit.. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, SpS_Zen said:

May be don't play with the constant objective to IA exploit.. 

fix the exploit…We should have to limit ourselves from using basic footballing strategies. Especially for a game that’s deemed a “simulation”

[sthptngomad76]

It astounds me that people are just happy to say "don't use exploits, then". That's what I'm paying the developers to do. Provide an entertaining challenging experience for me.

[priority76]

37 minutes ago, sthptngomad76 said:

It astounds me that people are just happy to say "don't use exploits, then". That's what I'm paying the developers to do. Provide an entertaining challenging experience for me.

It baffles me that people continue to use 'exploits' then become irate that they are winning games.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, priority76 said:

It baffles me that people continue to use 'exploits' then become irate that they are winning games.

Because those exploits have been reported for multiple versions and haven’t been fixed

[SpS_Zen]

Il y a 2 heures, Mars_Blackmon a dit :

fix the exploit…We should have to limit ourselves from using basic footballing strategies. Especially for a game that’s deemed a “simulation”

Use a tactic that seems realistic. I mean, by using those exploits you are making the game easier. Then, you guys come cry about the game being too easy.

By the way, it is a video game. When you see other games like LOL or Dota, balancing is super hard and there are always some overpowered heroes/tactics. FM has way more depth and complexity than those games. So yeah, there are some exploits, but it is your call to use them or not.

[Mars_Blackmon]

27 minutes ago, SpS_Zen said:

Use a tactic that seems realistic. I mean, by using those exploits you are making the game easier. Then, you guys come cry about the game being too easy.

By the way, it is a video game. When you see other games like LOL or Dota, balancing is super hard and there are always some overpowered heroes/tactics. FM has way more depth and complexity than those games. So yeah, there are some exploits, but it is your call to use them or not.

A preset tactic? No one is sitting here saying that they are using something like a strikerless system…Or any formation that deliberately takes advantage of the match engine. We are talking basic tactics here.

[bahmet]

There is an opinion that the ease of the game is associated with the passivity of the managers of the opponent's team. I tried to increase the attacking mentality for 2000 managers of the first team.

For example, Guardiola 13 > 16, Mourinho 8 > 10, Ancelotti 14 > 15. And so on.

Maybe anyone wants to try the file and test it.

Increase of AI attacking mentality.fmf

[majesticeternity]

I wonder if perhaps also not enough marking opposition players by AI, OR choosing poorly if they are able to mark. 

I can completely take over games by marking their players in a specific way

[Mars_Blackmon]

30 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

I wonder if perhaps also not enough marking opposition players by AI, OR choosing poorly if they are able to mark. 

I can completely take over games by marking their players in a specific way

I notice when my assistant suggest marking, it’s usually poor so I wouldn’t be surprised.

[HUNT3R]

Locking this because it's is a year old. There's a more recent version of the thread that is active :

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/558043-either-i-am-a-tactical-genius-or-fm22-is-to-easy/