Sean Maguire's Pace

[Bilbaoboy]

Anyone watch him IRL because Fifa have his pace at 90 odd but fm has him at 13

 

[Federico]

Ok, so what's your point?

[MrPompey]

I would always back FM to have the most accurate stats. If you are going to challenge an attribute rating then you will need to support the challenge with suitable evidence etc if you want to suggest a potential change

[Lindhoffen]

What's the issue then, mate? 

[onionbag]

I think it's pretty clear what the OP is saying, converted to a scale of 100, FM has his pace at 65 vs the 90 in FIFA (or 13 vs 18 in FM terms). I don't have a horse in this race, and don't know which is more accurate, but it's pretty clear that's a big disparity. Things like pace are more quantifiable than something like composure or decisions, and this disparity seems worthy of mention. Now whether the OP thinks one or the other is more appropriate only he can say. But for one game to see the player as very fast while the other is a little better than average seems a notable discrepancy.

It seems to me the OP is trying to know which is more accurate, and in no way seems to be suggesting one or the other is. That's why he asked who has watched him because he wants opinions.

Edited October 7, 2020 by onionbag

[JordanMilly]

The other issue is that 13 Pace in FM doesn't directly translate over to FM, since they both use different scales with different starting points of skill.

[Federico]

2 ore fa, onionbag ha scritto:

I think it's pretty clear what the OP is saying, converted to a scale of 100, FM has his pace at 65 vs the 90 in FIFA (or 13 vs 18 in FM terms). I don't have a horse in this race, and don't know which is more accurate, but it's pretty clear that's a big disparity. Things like pace are more quantifiable than something like composure or decisions, and this disparity seems worthy of mention. Now whether the OP thinks one or the other is more appropriate only he can say. But for one game to see the player as very fast while the other is a little better than average seems a notable discrepancy.

It seems to me the OP is trying to know which is more accurate, and in no way seems to be suggesting one or the other is. That's why he asked who has watched him because he wants opinions.

Yeah fair point. But for someone who doesn't have a complete knowledge of Maguire's skills, I think it's normal to expect from the OP an opinion since he raised a thread. For what I watched, considering the player physically, I hardly think he could be that fast, but probably someone who follows the EPL more deeply can have a word about.

Generally, I'd consider the FM database far more accurate compared to the assessments given by EA guys.

[gemxtria]

As a Preston fan i can confidently say he doesn't have 90 pace  

[Impacto]

FM has a 1000 people scouting players, while FIFA does whatever they want. In terms of player accuracy and database FM is miles off anything else. Even some Pro clubs use it to check out players, it's a no contest. 

[bazhsw]

5 hours ago, gemxtria said:

As a Preston fan i can confidently say he doesn't have 90 pace  

As a Preston fan I can also confidently agree with this.  A few years ago maybe, but then a few injuries have really slowed him down.

In this case I'd say FM's research is far more up to date.

[DementedHammer]

Do FIFA attributes actually go from 0-100 these days? When I last played FIFA (95, so a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then), the lowest scores that I remember, were around 60 or so. So 60 on that version would have been somewhat the equivalent of a score on 1 on FM.

[FlorianAlbert9]

9 ore fa, DementedHammer ha scritto:

Do FIFA attributes actually go from 0-100 these days? When I last played FIFA (95, so a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then), the lowest scores that I remember, were around 60 or so. So 60 on that version would have been somewhat the equivalent of a score on 1 on FM.

my last was 98. maybe would be the same, having 60 as the lowest. 
But you cannot compare with the 1 in FM 'cause at the time:

1) stats in FIFA are very...arcade. 

2) FIFA didn't have players playing in very low standard like FM have.

[gemxtria]

13 hours ago, bazhsw said:

As a Preston fan I can also confidently agree with this.  A few years ago maybe, but then a few injuries have really slowed him down.

In this case I'd say FM's research is far more up to date.

Back in the days when he was goal hungry haha

[MrPompey]

On 07/10/2020 at 19:15, onionbag said:

I think it's pretty clear what the OP is saying, converted to a scale of 100, FM has his pace at 65 vs the 90 in FIFA (or 13 vs 18 in FM terms). I don't have a horse in this race, and don't know which is more accurate, but it's pretty clear that's a big disparity. Things like pace are more quantifiable than something like composure or decisions, and this disparity seems worthy of mention. Now whether the OP thinks one or the other is more appropriate only he can say. But for one game to see the player as very fast while the other is a little better than average seems a notable discrepancy.

It seems to me the OP is trying to know which is more accurate, and in no way seems to be suggesting one or the other is. That's why he asked who has watched him because he wants opinions.

We dont really care here about the FIFA stat do we especially since we dont control it. We only care about the FM stat. I would work on the assumption the FIFA stats are the less likely to be correct for a number of reasons

If the OP thinks the FM stat is incorrect as I said before thats not helpful in any way. If he wants it changed then he needs to confirm what he wants it changed to and evidence to support and potential a forum discussion with the responsible AR. Thats the way changes get made for FM

If he thinks the FIFA stat is wrong contact  them if he wants it change

 

[KeegBCFC]

FIFA stats are the biggest load of b******s year in year out. Anyone getting their info from FIFA stats cannot be taken seriously. 

[swansongs]

I usually have a look at the Swansea ratings on FIFA when they come out. Always disappointed and a bit confused.

Never get tempted to buy it, at least.

[destmez]

17 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

my last was 98. maybe would be the same, having 60 as the lowest. 
But you cannot compare with the 1 in FM 'cause at the time:

1) stats in FIFA are very...arcade. 

2) FIFA didn't have players playing in very low standard like FM have.

In Fifa slow pace = player bad 

[Bilbaoboy]

On 09/10/2020 at 09:39, MrPompey said:

We dont really care here about the FIFA stat do we especially since we dont control it. We only care about the FM stat. I would work on the assumption the FIFA stats are the less likely to be correct for a number of reasons

If the OP thinks the FM stat is incorrect as I said before thats not helpful in any way. If he wants it changed then he needs to confirm what he wants it changed to and evidence to support and potential a forum discussion with the responsible AR. Thats the way changes get made for FM

If he thinks the FIFA stat is wrong contact  them if he wants it change

 

Lairy or what?

What a fuss over the most basic and non threatening question on the board

As someone else pointed out for you- All i was asking was that anyone who had saw the guy play in real life was able to give an opinion on the Blokes pace

Stats can change quite alot from season to season on FM one year a 24 year has 13 finishing then after a good season it's 17-  then the year after back down to 15

Point is Pace doesn't change and so even the laziest researchers at both Fifa and FM should be able to have a decent gage and be similar but they are miles off

I don't play fifa but was aware he was one of the fastest players and so seeing him at 13 was quite a drop and wanted to double check with a fan of Preston

 

I am not asking to change anything

[He can't believe he's missed it]

I've done some work for FIFA doing the ratings for a couple of teams. They had some sort of hard coded restriction which would always cap technical attributes to a certain number, but physicals had more freedom and you can easily bump it up without the system picking those attributes up.

Not saying this is what's happened here, but a lot of FIFA attributes away from the top level are literally just the opinions of one or two fans who battle through a poorly built input system to make their own team's players as good as they can

[Bilbaoboy]

9 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

I've done some work for FIFA doing the ratings for a couple of teams. They had some sort of hard coded restriction which would always cap technical attributes to a certain number, but physicals had more freedom and you can easily bump it up without the system picking those attributes up.

Not saying this is what's happened here, but a lot of FIFA attributes away from the top level are literally just the opinions of one or two fans who battle through a poorly built input system to make their own team's players as good as they can

Always amused me when on FM  some player from the Conference has dire attributes across the board yet will have 18 Composure

When they scouted him he must be just casually butchering every single pass

[MrPompey]

43 minutes ago, Bilbaoboy said:

Lairy or what?

What a fuss over the most basic and non threatening question on the board

As someone else pointed out for you- All i was asking was that anyone who had saw the guy play in real life was able to give an opinion on the Blokes pace

Stats can change quite alot from season to season on FM one year a 24 year has 13 finishing then after a good season it's 17-  then the year after back down to 15

Point is Pace doesn't change and so even the laziest researchers at both Fifa and FM should be able to have a decent gage and be similar but they are miles off

I don't play fifa but was aware he was one of the fastest players and so seeing him at 13 was quite a drop and wanted to double check with a fan of Preston

 

I am not asking to change anything

In what way is my statement lairy ? If it come across that way it wasnt meant to be.

I was wondering why an FM researcher would worry what FIFA has, its 2 completely different products, an example could be acceleration in the same car for 2 different driving games could be different. Im simply explaining why a researcher wouldnt worry about what stats FIFA has for a specific player they are researching. It would be based on their own analysis, comparison with other players similarly, faster or slower paced. If you have some concerns or examples that could highlight a pace rating of 13 is wrong a good way to example it is as I just mentioned. Player attributes are subjective so there will always be some variations of opinion

I disagree a players stats would change a lot from one season to another. I very much doubt FM Finishing would increase for a player from 13 to 17 in a single season. Unless the player was severely under rated to start with it doesnt really work like that. I also very much doubt that finishing would change so dramatically in a single FM simulated season either, its too significant a gain. Its not impossible perhaps but very unlikely. 

Pace certainly does change over time. It may increase at a young age as a player gets stronger then peak at some point then decline as they get older. It will also be subject to natural ability, this why similar sized players sometimes are much quicker or slower than others. Also factor in acceleration, how long does it take for a player to reach his top speed?

I'll be honest in that I dont know much about Sean Maguire, the Burnley Assistant Researcher likely does. I think Maguire has a history of hamstring injuries but looking historically it seems his pace rating has been consistent in FM

Oh finally as researchers we dont always get it right so if you find something you disagree with but most importantly you evidence it  / compare agaisnt other players then it will likely be considered, not guarantees it will be changed  Dean may disagree but the researchers in FM wont be lazy, they may just have a different opinion

[He can't believe he's missed it]

We can probably try to piece this together...

https://www.lep.co.uk/sport/football/preston-north-end/new-boy-emil-riiss-pace-impresses-fellow-preston-north-end-striker-sean-maguire-2997406

Maguire said in an interview that Tom Barkuizen and Emil Riis were battling in training to see who was the quickest, he doesn't seem to include himself in that discussion at all.

Barkhuizen has 16s for pace and acceleration while Riis has 13 acc and 14 pace, which is very similar to maguire.

That suggests the FM attributes are pretty accurate, while FIFA is miles off the mark 

[Bilbaoboy]

19 hours ago, MrPompey said:

In what way is my statement lairy ? If it come across that way it wasnt meant to be.

I was wondering why an FM researcher would worry what FIFA has, its 2 completely different products, an example could be acceleration in the same car for 2 different driving games could be different. Im simply explaining why a researcher wouldnt worry about what stats FIFA has for a specific player they are researching. It would be based on their own analysis, comparison with other players similarly, faster or slower paced. If you have some concerns or examples that could highlight a pace rating of 13 is wrong a good way to example it is as I just mentioned. Player attributes are subjective so there will always be some variations of opinion

I disagree a players stats would change a lot from one season to another. I very much doubt FM Finishing would increase for a player from 13 to 17 in a single season. Unless the player was severely under rated to start with it doesnt really work like that. I also very much doubt that finishing would change so dramatically in a single FM simulated season either, its too significant a gain. Its not impossible perhaps but very unlikely. 

Pace certainly does change over time. It may increase at a young age as a player gets stronger then peak at some point then decline as they get older. It will also be subject to natural ability, this why similar sized players sometimes are much quicker or slower than others. Also factor in acceleration, how long does it take for a player to reach his top speed?

I'll be honest in that I dont know much about Sean Maguire, the Burnley Assistant Researcher likely does. I think Maguire has a history of hamstring injuries but looking historically it seems his pace rating has been consistent in FM

Oh finally as researchers we dont always get it right so if you find something you disagree with but most importantly you evidence it  / compare agaisnt other players then it will likely be considered, not guarantees it will be changed  Dean may disagree but the researchers in FM wont be lazy, they may just have a different opinion

Yeah i agree that it seem's he has had a bad injury and has lost his pace, so FM is spot on, i was just in doubt because i remember seeing him play (Probably couple of years ago now) and he was electric and checking him out on latest FIFA had me thinking he may still have it

I wanted to do a Preston save that pace was crucial in him either being my main man or going on the transfer list so i was just double checking in vain and if someone had confirmed it i would have changed it in the editor guilt free

With the stats changing from year to year i can't think off the top of my head but sometimes a striker will come up to the Prem from the Championship and have a good season and his Finishing will rocket up to 16 or 17 when in reality he's just had the season of his life and the year after go back to his natural level- although i do adimt that is very hard to account for

[robbie.owen333]

On 17/11/2020 at 18:37, MrPompey said:

In what way is my statement lairy ? If it come across that way it wasnt meant to be.

I was wondering why an FM researcher would worry what FIFA has, its 2 completely different products, an example could be acceleration in the same car for 2 different driving games could be different. Im simply explaining why a researcher wouldnt worry about what stats FIFA has for a specific player they are researching. It would be based on their own analysis, comparison with other players similarly, faster or slower paced. If you have some concerns or examples that could highlight a pace rating of 13 is wrong a good way to example it is as I just mentioned. Player attributes are subjective so there will always be some variations of opinion

I disagree a players stats would change a lot from one season to another. I very much doubt FM Finishing would increase for a player from 13 to 17 in a single season. Unless the player was severely under rated to start with it doesnt really work like that. I also very much doubt that finishing would change so dramatically in a single FM simulated season either, its too significant a gain. Its not impossible perhaps but very unlikely. 

Pace certainly does change over time. It may increase at a young age as a player gets stronger then peak at some point then decline as they get older. It will also be subject to natural ability, this why similar sized players sometimes are much quicker or slower than others. Also factor in acceleration, how long does it take for a player to reach his top speed?

I'll be honest in that I dont know much about Sean Maguire, the Burnley Assistant Researcher likely does. I think Maguire has a history of hamstring injuries but looking historically it seems his pace rating has been consistent in FM

Oh finally as researchers we dont always get it right so if you find something you disagree with but most importantly you evidence it  / compare agaisnt other players then it will likely be considered, not guarantees it will be changed  Dean may disagree but the researchers in FM wont be lazy, they may just have a different opinion

Your response was one of the biggest forum meltdowns I've witnessed in a long time.

[Norfair]

On 09/10/2020 at 10:39, MrPompey said:

If he thinks the FIFA stat is wrong contact  them if he wants it change

 

Good luck with that. Contacting EA over something like this and hope that they even forward the email to the dev team has about as high a chance as responding to a Trump tweet asking him to stop tweeting.

[MrPompey]

10 hours ago, robbie.owen333 said:

Your response was one of the biggest forum meltdowns I've witnessed in a long time.

LOL - No idea what you are on about. I think you have led a sheltered life here if you think that is a meltdown. On the plus side the OP can now rest assured the player's pace in FM appears to be correct and FIFA's incorrect...but no surprise there really

[Bilbaoboy]

On 19/11/2020 at 08:52, MrPompey said:

LOL - No idea what you are on about. I think you have led a sheltered life here if you think that is a meltdown. On the plus side the OP can now rest assured the player's pace in FM appears to be correct and FIFA's incorrect...but no surprise there really

As a Pompey fan while you're on here another player i have always wondered about was Ronan Curtis, to me he always seems underated- I know he's a league 1 player but again he looks quicker in real life than 13 pace really good dribbler and loads of flair

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, Bilbaoboy said:

As a Pompey fan while you're on here another player i have always wondered about was Ronan Curtis, to me he always seems underated- I know he's a league 1 player but again he looks quicker in real life than 13 pace really good dribbler and loads of flair

He's just scored 2 goals this pm, one a scuffed shot  

Spoiler

Attributes of 13 for pace, dribbling and flair are very good for L1 making him already one of top L1 players

 He made a poor start this season to L1 but Jacobs being injured has given a good run in the side recently. He is only 24 and, as in real life, in FM has the potential to get better. He is certainly not as fast as Harness or Williams

 

[Bilbaoboy]

On 21/11/2020 at 16:15, MrPompey said:

He's just scored 2 goals this pm, one a scuffed shot  

  Reveal hidden contents

Attributes of 13 for pace, dribbling and flair are very good for L1 making him already one of top L1 players

 He made a poor start this season to L1 but Jacobs being injured has given a good run in the side recently. He is only 24 and, as in real life, in FM has the potential to get better. He is certainly not as fast as Harness or Williams

 

I really rate him i am surprised no one has come in for him

[MrPompey]

1 hour ago, Bilbaoboy said:

I really rate him i am surprised no one has come in for him

I personally think Jamal Lowe the better player at the time who sold for £2.5 m and a bit more experienced. Jacobs should push Curtis to better performances this season. Curtis also has a 3 year contract which makes him expensive and Jackett will not want to sell him. Lets hope Curtis kicks on

[Ellis_D]

On 19/11/2020 at 08:52, MrPompey said:

LOL - No idea what you are on about. I think you have led a sheltered life here if you think that is a meltdown. On the plus side the OP can now rest assured the player's pace in FM appears to be correct and FIFA's incorrect...but no surprise there really

I think the lad was joking, surely?

[sporadicsmiles]

Imagine thinking that EA researched anything 

[latrell]

i trust FM stats over FIFA stats

[MrPompey]

6 minutes ago, latrell said:

i trust FM stats over FIFA stats

Exactly I think the OP wondered why there was a large difference between FM and FIFA so the question is really for FIFA to answer

[Ellis_D]

I don't trust EA for anything, they are absolutely useless.

[MrPompey]

We only need to focus on FM here

 

[tenchu]

On 06/10/2020 at 03:08, MrPompey said:

I would always back FM to have the most accurate stats. If you are going to challenge an attribute rating then you will need to support the challenge with suitable evidence etc if you want to suggest a potential change

FM is far from accurate stats..

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1649149

 

Sanchez 35.3km/h 15/15

Son Heungmin 35km/h 15/15

Ali 35km/h 12/11 ???

https://speedsdb.com/harry-kane-top-speed/#:~:text=Harry Kane is a professional,recorded is 34.3 km%2Fh.

Kane 34.3km/h  12/13 ???

 

salah 35km/h 18/18 https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-fastest-players-in-europes-top-five-leagues-salah-aubameyang-mbappe/#:~:text=Mohamed Salah,signing for Liverpool in 2017.

joe gomez 32.99km/h 16/16 https://www.rousingthekop.com/2020/10/27/joe-gomez-pace-cracks-top-11-for-champions-leagues-fastest-players/

mane 34.84km/h 18/18 https://speedsdb.com/sadio-mane-top-speed/

 

minamino 28km/h 15/15?? https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/clubs/players/250081223--takumi-minamino/statistics/

 

 

[MrPompey]

You have lost the context - My post said I would back FM stats over EA's

If you feel something is incorrect then detail who and what you think it should be and give some supporting evidence - thats my suggestion to you

[tenchu]

19 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

You have lost the context - My post said I would back FM stats over EA's

If you feel something is incorrect then detail who and what you think it should be and give some supporting evidence - thats my suggestion to you

thats what I did. what more supporting evidence you need on top speed?? I dont think top speed is a subjective matter at all since they measure with EPTS(wearable GPS) on each game.

whoever rate these pace/acc should be fired.

Edited November 24, 2020 by tenchu

[HUNT3R]

7 minutes ago, tenchu said:

thats what I did. go what more supporting evidence you need on top speed?? I dont think top speed is a subjective matter at all since they measure with EPTS(wearable GPS) on each game.

whoever rate these pace/acc should be fired.

I don't know why people can't just be civil. Keep this in mind, especially when posting "whoever rate these pace/acc should be fired."

If you do have any database/research issues, please post (with something to back up your claims) here in the relevant thread: https://community.sigames.com/forum/820-database-and-research/

No one is claiming the database is perfect, so any issues posted with backup will be gratefully received. Thanks.