Popular Post Zemahh Posted October 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said: If I remember rightly, 2D was a specific engine that was used until FM18 which was removed because barely anyone used it for the development it took up. I think someone had the post to hand previously I don't think that's correct. When it was removed, there was tons and tons of posts complaining about it. We had two 2D options back then and I'm pretty sure 2D Classic was far from "barely used". If I remember correctly, SI removed it because it wasn't compatible with the new 3D graphics engine they switched to. Back then they said itĀ gives them a huge room for improvement going forward, so naturally people understood the first year wasn't going to be perfect, but here we are now. Two or three iterations later, graphics seem to be even regressing. And frankly, it's getting pretty tiresome, as responses in this thread show. Edited October 18, 2020 by Zemahh Grammar 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post angelo994 Posted October 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2020 On 16/10/2020 at 19:12, treble_yell_:-) said: Evolution of the games visuals. All 1920x1080 images taken from gameplay and not Youtube. Ā 2020 is a 1440p image on max settings, the second 2020 image is 1440p Very Low settings. Wow just saw this. The shift in quality from 17>18 is huge. Lighting and pitch textures look much worse.Ā 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Smurf said: I don't mind the positioning/decision making in the 3D match engine, I barely notice it. And it's fine for me. I'm sure adding VAR was not easy, and I'm sure tweaking the rules around the game for new laws etc has ramifications in the programming world.Ā Ā YES i am 100% we all want better AI Ā but keeping a 2003 proccesor is not a long term good idea Ā that why you striker try to score in a impossible angle instead of giving the to a free player , that why player in FM struggle to score in a 2 vs 1 ( 2 player vs a GK ) that why there is no tricks to past player , that why sometime player give the ball back to oppositions(glitch) because the AI dont have to surpasse minimum requierementĀ VAR In FM20Ā : To check a offside goal ( if the goal is offside the animation start and the goal is 100% at any time refused )Ā to Check is the fault was on the box or not ( if the fault was outside = no pen , inside =Pen ) to check is there is a penalty ( 100% ) Ā Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Zemahh said: I don't think that's correct. When it was removed, there was tons and tons of posts complaining about it. We had two 2D options back then and I'm pretty sure 2D Classic was far from "barely used". If I remember correctly, SI removed it because it wasn't compatible with the new 3D graphics engine they switched to. Back then they said itĀ gives them a huge room for improvement going forward, so naturally people understood the first year wasn't going to be perfect, but here we are now. Two or the iterations later, graphics seem to be even regressing. And frankly, it's getting pretty tiresome, as responses in this thread show. We actually had Miles say upwards of 90% used the 3D engine at the time 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Marko1989 said: Absolutelly false. Everybody wants better graphics. And whoever say that they would not like FM to look better is lying. It is Just some people don't want the game to became more demanding.Ā I honestly don't care how the game looks.Ā It isn't important to me. Try not to let that blow your mind. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, forameuss said: I honestly don't care how the game looks.Ā It isn't important to me. Try not to let that blow your mind. but you care of having a Better AI ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, destmez said: but you care of having a Better AI ? Not sure how that's relevant to me replying to the point of "everyone wants better graphics and if they say they don't, they're a liar". If I'm completely honest, the match engine - presentation or calculation side - don't really come high up on my own list of wants and needs.Ā The way I play the game, it's very much a case of "if the game gets to the right answer, I don't care much about the working".Ā Would it be nice if the match was prettier, and when the engine needs to make it 1-0, the play looked a little more like real life?Ā Yeah.Ā But I'd far rather they breathed more life into pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE.Ā The game has gotten stale, po-faced, and lacks any kind of life or imagination that you don't put in yourself.Ā It's not about the matches for me, it's about the entire package. Put it this way, if I was given a choice between them ONLY touching up the ME, or not touching it at all, leaving it as it was in 20, and going after the wider picture like I mentioned above, I'd choose the latter every time.Ā Ā 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rullom Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, forameuss said: Put it this way, if I was given a choice between them ONLY touching up the ME, or not touching it at all, leaving it as it was in 20, and going after the wider picture like I mentioned above, I'd choose the latter every time.Ā Ā It should be possible to do both in 2020. I'm on the other side of this, wanting them to only touch the ME and leave the rest, if that is what it would take. From reading all post here, it seems like people are very split about what should actually be changed or not. This forum is in the minority of people playing. Most are silent, or on some small national forum. I can't really tell what the majority actually wants. Proberbly a mix of it all. Better AI, better UI,Ā better graphics ... I mean, at this point, if FM21 feels like an upgrade in any aspect, I'll take it, but I do worry itĀ wont (to me.) Time will tell.Ā Edited October 18, 2020 by Rullom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rullom said: It should be possible to do both in 2020. I'm on the other side of this, wanting them to only touch the ME and leave the rest, if that is what it would take. From reading all post here, it seems like people are very split about what should actually be changed or not. This forum is in the minority of people playing. Most are silent, or on some small national forum. I can't really tell what the majority actually wants. Proberbly a mix of it all. Better AI, better UI,Ā better graphics ... I mean, at this point, if FM21 feels like an upgrade in any aspect, I'll take it, but I do worry that wont. Time will tell.Ā https://community.sigames.com/topic/528100-fm-vs-realism/Ā What do you think Football manager game is missing the most when compared to real football? 3 choices. Player movement. Animations showing individual skill differences between players. Atmosphere. Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rullom Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, destmez said: https://community.sigames.com/topic/528100-fm-vs-realism/Ā I feel like the options I would like to push, is not there. And again, this only represent people on this forum. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlyzao Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cal585 said: If I remember the fuss a few years back, wasn't that a completely separate 2D graphics engine that they discontinued because they were finding it tricky to maintain 2 versions of it? So they won't bring it back. But it would be good if they could spruce up the existing 2D one that does indeed look a bit drab. Edit: Apparently FM18 changed from primarily 2D converted to 3D to being mostly 3D with a 2D skin. So they had to scrap the nice looking 2D view for the sake of progressing the rest of the game. Reference as to why it was done:Ā Ā I don't get it. They state they removed the 2D Classic view because it only took advantage of the CPU, but how come we ended up with a 2D view that looks even worse? If it is supposed to be taking advantage of the GPU then surely it can get a bit more detailed? Also, there used to be two 2D views. Did they removeĀ one and downgraded the other? 2D Classic view: Ā 2D view that should still be in the game: Ā Edited October 18, 2020 by orlyzao 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Rullom said: I feel like the options I would like to push, is not there. And again, this only represent people on this forum. Ā Even if the mods or the SI team made this same kind of post it would not be representative , players in forum dont represente players who are not in the forum !Ā Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dbuk1 Posted October 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2020 I can imagine when the whole champ manager split happened years and years back that the staff were very worried and worked their ass off to make sure they had the best product on the market. Since the competition is zero there is no doubt that the game has very very slowly progressed. Itās a great game. But we demand more when it is essentially an unglorified database upgrade. Everybody would be happy with a match engine that looks better (not everybody cares about it) but they would be happy with it. 2020 deserves it for Christ sake. Itās a visual disaster that should be ashamed of itself.Ā 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CEVR1996 Posted October 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2020 The transition from a solely 2d match engine to one that accommodates aĀ 3d visual simulation has been anything but smooth, the animations andĀ physics it runs onĀ have looked clunky and nowhere near realistic for a very long time, posing a detrimental effect on the overall immersion. Back whenĀ only 2d was available, we could merelyĀ speculate about what was actually happening under the surface as those dots moved around the screen, it gave our imagination a blank card to fill in with specific details concerning the on going pitch action. But as 3d got introduced, the player could now see things from a much deeper perspective, no longer leaving a margin for individual speculation and as such, the failure to deliver a visual simulation which has it'sĀ fundamental principles done right greatly hinders the user experience. Graphics aside, the AI needs a serious overhaul,Ā computing software and hardwareĀ have alreadyĀ reached technologicalĀ standards in which it's actuallyĀ possibleĀ to recreate natural human movement and real world physicsĀ convincingly enough within a virtual environment, there are video games out there that show this and FM could most definitely use a better physics engine as well as a more proactive and intuitive AI. Ā 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlyzao Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said: We actually had Miles say upwards of 90% used the 3D engine at the time He stated more than 90% of the matchesĀ were watched in 3D.Ā Edited October 18, 2020 by orlyzao 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, orlyzao said: He stated more than 90% of the matchesĀ were watched in 3D.Ā That's a later and slightly different stat. Which reinforces the point, mind 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigaliro Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Tbh If I had to choose between better 3d match engine graphics and better player animations I would have choosen better player animations as they are still worse than early fifa/pes games. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathozz Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Looking forward to some of the new features. Iām a big fan of the media and interaction on the game and actually feeling like you have a relationship with the players and theyāre not just bots on the field. I want to feel in charge.Ā I think the issue with previous versions was that you knew exactly which interaction worked and youād always just select that one. Hopefully this will open up a bit more.Ā Excited to see what else will be announced in the next couple of weeks.Ā Ā Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Statistics. My head in the freezer, my foot in the oven, I'm alright on average. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrManagerMan Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I think they mustĀ put their money and resources into scouting the players for the database and ignore the ME. I canāt believe it just doesnāt improve over the years and as some have said on here, graphics wise has gotten worse. Ā Somebody or something at SI is holding them back. Like someone wants it to look purposely dated for their own nostalgias sake or something. Definitely needs bringing up to date in the match day graphics department. Not even up to dateĀ - even if they brought it up to the year 2000 it would be an improvement!!Ā I mean, even a cheap footy game played on a cheap phone has better graphics then this. It just looks dreary. Awful shades of green. No vibrancy to it at all. And if I see another pub picnic bench.... š¤¬š¤¬š¤¬ Ā Off the pitch I thought FM20 was excellent but then it comes to match day and itās a chore to watch. Still, nothing will get said or done about it and weāll all buy it anyway and be here again saying similar things next year. ā½ļø 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saihtam Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Uhh remember when I did this post, glad a bit more people are raising their voices. Hope to see some evolution coming as we went over to 64bit exe, but not so sure about this year. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Nathozz said: Looking forward to some of the new features. Iām a big fan of the media and interaction on the game and actually feeling like you have a relationship with the players and theyāre not just bots on the field. I want to feel in charge.Ā I think the issue with previous versions was that you knew exactly which interaction worked and youād always just select that one. Hopefully this will open up a bit more.Ā Excited to see what else will be announced in the next couple of weeks.Ā Ā Ā More coming out tomorrow.Ā I think your point also ties into AI, so will be interesting to see what has gone into that this year as well. Better interaction won't just come from better context and choices, but the reactions as well, and that means better AI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) Player movement. Animations showing individual skill differences between players.Ā Atmosphere. currently the game does not have: 1 different way of running with and without the ball ,Ā directional touch , no systemĀ of contact ,Ā there is not center of gravity ,Ā no physical language when players are tired there is not center of gravity Differant skills and tricks ,Ā which is a big problem because dribbling is important in this sport ! Atmosphere :Ā (plastic fan 2d ),supporters , fans , in stadiums not in 3D , no fumigĆØne no tifo ,Ā lack of collection asset for stadium , irrealistic stadium , there is nothing differant between small match and big , cartoon textures ,Ā repetive generic stadium , no cutscene , no IntroĀ I dont thinks we will have this in the game one dayĀ because a i dont thinks a 2003 Proccessor can Handle it (Ā These are the Football Manager 2021Ā system requirementsĀ (minimum)Ā CPU:AMD Athlon 64 FX-51.Ā but outiside Me i can expect newĀ features š Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, saihtam said: Uhh remember when I did this post, glad a bit more people are raising their voices. Hope to see some evolution coming as we went over to 64bit exe, but not so sure about this year. What is the minimum Direct X for FM21 ?Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saihtam Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, destmez said: What is the minimum Direct X for FM21 ?Ā FM21 Windows System Requirements Minimum: Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system OS: Windows 7 (SP1), 8/8.1, 10 (Update 1903/May 2019 or later) ā 64-bit Processor: Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 ā 1.8 GHz + Memory: 4 GB RAM Graphics: Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT or AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 ā 256MB VRAM DirectX: Version 11 Storage: 7 GB available space Recommended: Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVR1996 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutos atrĆ”s, destmez disse: Player movement. Animations showing individual skill differences between players.Ā Atmosphere. currently the game does not have: 1 different way of running with and without the ball ,Ā directional touch , no systemĀ of contact ,Ā there is not center of gravity ,Ā no physical language when players are tired there is not center of gravity Differant skills and tricks ,Ā which is a big problem because dribbling is important in this sport ! Atmosphere :Ā (plastic fan 2d ),supporters , fans , in stadiums not in 3D , no fumigĆØne no tifo ,Ā lack of collection asset for stadium , irrealistic stadium , there is nothing differant between small match and big , cartoon textures ,Ā repetive generic stadium , no cutscene , no IntroĀ I dont thinks we will have this in the game one dayĀ because a i dont thinks a 2003 Proccessor can Handle it (Ā These are the Football Manager 2021Ā system requirementsĀ (minimum)Ā CPU:AMD Athlon 64 FX-51.Ā Ā The only truly discernible skill in the current match engineĀ is how fast a player can run and that is still sometimes neglectedĀ during those annoyingly frequent instances when players gain a sudden speed boostĀ as they're "dribbling" through the opposition. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pav_Makarov Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, CEVR1996 said: The only truly discernible skill in the current match engineĀ is how fast a player can run and that is still sometimes neglectedĀ during those annoyingly frequent instances when players gain a sudden speed boostĀ as they're "dribbling" through the opposition. Pace is a key in this game š¤£š¤£š¤£ , kick and rush tooĀ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novem9 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Btw very interesting to see replays of offside and goal check system. Replays of them are terrible in FM20 - camera based on falcon I guess and it's almost impossible to see something 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVR1996 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutos atrĆ”s, destmez disse: Pace is a key in this game š¤£š¤£š¤£ , kick and rush tooĀ For a game striving to distinguishĀ itself from FIFA, they're oddly familiar on that chapter! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said: For a game striving to distinguishĀ itself from FIFA, they're oddly familiar on that chapter! š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£Ā strange isn't it?Ā so on the moddable game side it should be inspired by konami and PES it has already been partially done but there is nothing on the ME Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novem9 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 15 Š¼ŠøŠ½ŃŃ Š½Š°Š·Š°Š“, saihtam ŃŠŗŠ°Š·Š°Š»: Processor: Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 ā 1.8 GHz + discontinued 8 years ago. Laptop of 8 years ago is a junk but even this could support better graphics then FM20 Ā 18 Š¼ŠøŠ½ŃŃ Š½Š°Š·Š°Š“, saihtam ŃŠŗŠ°Š·Š°Š»: NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT Videocard of 2008 yearĀ Ā Ā Nvidia 2080 vsĀ NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT Effective speed +7k % Average Score +6,9k % https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-GeForce-9600M-GT/4026vsm7707 Ā I'm console gamer but even my old videocard is better for 1480% in compare of this. Absolutely democratic System Requirements for sure 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Novem9 said: discontinued 8 years ago. Laptop of 8 years ago is a junk but even this could support better graphics then FM20 Ā Videocard of 2008 yearĀ Ā Ā Nvidia 2080 vsĀ NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT Effective speed +7k % Average Score +6,9k % https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2080-vs-Nvidia-GeForce-9600M-GT/4026vsm7707 Ā I'm console gamer but even my old videocard is better for 1480% in compare of this. Absolutely democratic System Requirements for sure and SmurfĀ said us "Ā FM is different to other games - it relies on a processing power, not graphical power"Ā so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config)Ā I feel pessimistic it is useless to think that they want to push the graphics or integrate the driblble, smurf tells us that they have integrated 3D because the players ask us but if he never would have done it ? would he integrate 3D? Ā Why I focus on the graphic aspect is because everything that is outside of the ME is of good quality but the Graphic Quality of the ME is not their strong point that's why I suggested that 'he works with Nvidia that could bring him a very good publicity as much for Nvidia which could promote these products in the FM niche and that Nvidia could bring a lot of visibility by relaying the results of a potential RTX mod in these social mediaĀ This would increase the quality of content from content creators ā¶ More promotion of the game Edited October 18, 2020 by destmez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, destmez said: and SmurfĀ said us FM is not a Graphical gameĀ so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config)Ā I feel pessimistic it is useless to think that they want to push the graphics or integrate the driblble, smurf tells us that they have integrated 3D because the players ask us but if he never would have done it ? would he integrate 3D? Ā Why I focus on the graphic aspect is because everything that is outside of the ME is of good quality but the Graphic Quality of the ME is not their strong point that's why I suggested that 'he works with Nvidia that could bring him a very good publicity as much for Nvidia which could promote these products in the FM niche and that Nvidia could bring a lot of visibility by relaying the results of a potential RTX mod in these social mediaĀ This would increase the quality of content from content creators ā¶ More promotion of the game I have no idea what you're talking about.Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 "Ā But FM is different to other games - it relies on a processing power, not graphical power.Ā " yesĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 What is going on, can people no longer form meaningful sentences? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novem9 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 55 Š¼ŠøŠ½ŃŃ Š½Š°Š·Š°Š“, Pav_Makarov ŃŠŗŠ°Š·Š°Š»: So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t I almost sure that AI programming and graphics/animation make different departments/teams of SIĀ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novem9 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 25 Š¼ŠøŠ½ŃŃ Š½Š°Š·Š°Š“, destmez ŃŠŗŠ°Š·Š°Š»: and SmurfĀ said us "Ā FM is different to other games - it relies on a processing power, not graphical power"Ā so I don't think we'll go very far with this (this config)Ā You need huge processor (i5 or better i7) if you're playing with a big database. Videocard is required for graphics. Its simple Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, Novem9 said: You need huge processor (i5 or better i7) if you're playing with a big database. Videocard is required for graphics. Its simple That's not true - you can play with an i3 processor. The i3 10100F would be better some i5s or i7s. i3 8100H would be good too. Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novem9 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 Š¼ŠøŠ½ŃŃŃ Š½Š°Š·Š°Š“, Smurf ŃŠŗŠ°Š·Š°Š»: That's not true - you can play with an i3 processor. The i3 10100F would be better some i5s or i7s. i3 8100H would be good too. Ā for sure modern i3 10k processor is better in compare of any i5-7400 (which is not bad too). But if somebody choose between i3 10k and i5 10k forsure for processing i5 is better isn't? And i7 is the best (Intel) choice because i7 is focused for worskstation and FM days processing is procedure for workstation, do you agree? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pav_Makarov Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Novem9 said: I almost sure that AI programming and graphics/animation make different departments/teams of SIĀ Still work in conjunction tho. I'm not objecting visual enhancement, just mourn core thing that's broken at the moment 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
99 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 horas atrĆ”s, angelo994 disse: It really put it into perspective. Iāve not really noticed just how far backwards weāve gone until Iāve seen these screenshot comparisons.Ā Same here. I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog:Ā if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death. FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exius Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, 99 said: Same here. I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog:Ā if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death. FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions. Nice comparison, but check another post with screenshots somewhereĀ here - it all happened in FM 2018. They removed a layer with a worn out texture and a layer with some other grass details texture and now we have such ugly pitches. The same happened when they replaced newgen faces with 3d renders - they have gone ugly as well. Edited October 18, 2020 by Exius 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saihtam Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Pav_Makarov said: So many people want better animation for moronic on-pitch decisions. Please, people, let them fix obvious flaws like CCC conversion, crosses and tactical representation on the pitch overall. No point in fancy looks if created tactics go out if the window because engine is s..t It is not only graphical part, it effects AI, decisions and all the shenanigan that works in the background. Nobody wants FIFA graphics etc, just some direction to improvements and variety in stadium/crowd is good start. Have to understand that these kind of lower end specs make development harder, it is harder to fix something and same time adding things on top of code and parameters without causing other issues. Ever wonder why issues that where fix in previous version still pop out on next iterations?Ā Working on old and legacy software is damn hard and getting new developers in to understand this and work on is difficult thing to also achieve. This could be very well reason why it is not easy to add and mod stadiums by the fans, it might be the backdoor they never want to show. I am not saying it is dead old software and back-end they have, but you can see the spec it should be running and it will raise so many questions of what limitation it has for developers. I am not saying it is always true and I know it all, but the years I have been working in software development field have showed me this + add experience developers stories. The thing SI developers still manage to do is amazing and huge thanks they are keeping it going as much as possible. It is more complex than just add higher specs and be done with it, there must be lot of work done there and it is nothing you can do in a year. We can all just hope they have a one group cooking up new ME or some significant improvements that really takes 1-3 years. But current look from start of fm18 has been worrying. Here is the point where I have hoped more involvement from Miles or some official news that they would ensure the movement to future even if wont happen the same year.Ā I understand aspects why people here defend but you also must understand that we love the game and want good for it. Tech, gaming and communication in the industry has been climbing very fast in positive manner and it feels that SI starting to stay behind on these aspects. As a fan and gamer it is just worrying. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEVR1996 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 minutos atrĆ”s, 99 disse: Same here. I guess it's that tale of the boiling frog:Ā if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water it will instantly leap out. But if you put it in a pot filled with pleasantly tepid water and gradually heat it, the frog will remain in the water until it boils to death. FM didn't went that backwards (graphically) from one edition to the next, but over the course of various editions. I may have not played FM11 in ages now but I do vividly remember nonetheless howĀ theĀ match engineĀ lookedĀ more vibrant and detailed back then, both on the 2d and 3d simulation aspectsĀ in comparison to FM 20 for example which seems massively counterintuitive and difficult to rationalise. Ā The AI itself didn't seemedĀ any less sophisticatedĀ than that from the 2019 iteration, in fact, I dare to say FM11's match engineĀ actually had fewer simulation bugs than FM20's, at least I don't remember seeing back then goalkeepers kicking the ballĀ against a player right in front of them once in a whileĀ to concede an absurd goal which no accountableĀ tactical arrangements hold any responsibility over, unlike in FM 20 where this is a fairly common scenario. I really can't find a sensibleĀ explanation, at least not one I'm comfortable sharing here as to why and how this has happened because it appears to go against the basic logicĀ of "the more you do something, the better you'll become at it". 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars_Blackmon Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 6 hours ago, akm.91 said: Whatās the excuse for the last 10 years then?Ā What does 10 years have to do with this thread? Why arenāt there multiple active threads about this? Everyone already knew what to expect for FM21... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, 99 said: you put a frog in a pot of boiling water Now you made me hungry. Anyways... I find it hard to believe SI are deliberatly downgrading the graphics every year because some people are running it on potatoes. I mean, first of all, the number of users with old worthless computers should decrease over time, not increase, and second: I remember games back in the 90:s that could adapt the graphics to suit the power of the computer. Surely SI could do that in 2020 if the problem was users withĀ potato computers. Ā 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
destmez Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 there is aĀ downgrade here ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright 747 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 hours ago, orlyzao said: I don't get it. They state they removed the 2D Classic view because it only took advantage of the CPU, but how come we ended up with a 2D view that looks even worse? If it is supposed to be taking advantage of the GPU then surely it can get a bit more detailed? Also, there used to be two 2D views. Did they removeĀ one and downgraded the other? 2D Classic view: Ā 2D view that should still be in the game: Ā That is what I think happened Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, CEVR1996 said: I may have not played FM11 in ages now but I do vividly remember nonetheless howĀ theĀ match engineĀ lookedĀ more vibrant and detailed back then, both on the 2d and 3d simulation aspectsĀ in comparison to FM 20 for example which seems massively counterintuitive and difficult to rationalise. Ā The AI itself didn't seemedĀ any less sophisticatedĀ than that from the 2019 iteration, in fact, I dare to say FM11's match engineĀ actually had fewer simulation bugs than FM20's, at least I don't remember seeing back then goalkeepers kicking the ballĀ against a player right in front of them once in a whileĀ to concede an absurd goal which no accountableĀ tactical arrangements hold any responsibility over, unlike in FM 20 where this is a fairly common scenario. I really can't find a sensibleĀ explanation, at least not one I'm comfortable sharing here as to why and how this has happened because it appears to go against the basic logicĀ of "the more you do something, the better you'll become at it". The match engine AI from 2011 is a considerably simpler than that of 2019. Not least because it doesn't have to account for any physics. Still had its own quirks too. It also hit it's limits of what it could do in FM12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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