Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features

[thiagoanjo]

2 horas atrás, warlock disse:

You can carry on repeating this, but it won't ever be true. Of course, the 3D graphics engine is a 'skin', but so is the 2D graphics engine, and so is the "commentary" engine. The ME takes a series of inputs and calculates a series of outputs. How those outputs are displayed is irrelevant to the ME itself - I'd bet the native output of the ME is a vast string of numbers and true/false statements. SI could show the results as a point cloud if they wanted.

No, you are completely wrong.

The Match Engime is TOTALLY made for 2D. Not for 1d, 3d, 4d, 5d... It is specifically for 2D.

Collisions, control, pass, turn face, turn body, shooting, ALL for 2D, not a skin, is coded for 2D, All the AI is for 2D. Movements, decisions, support, ALL,  then, just AFTER finish coding, you can put whatever skin you want for it, but the engine is coded for 2D, Im not saying "I think it is", Im saying I know it is.

Any coder would know after play FM that it is coded for 2D, physics and AI.

[FlorianAlbert9]

2 ore fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

If anyone actually read the blogs, they actually state they have made lots of changes to both the ME and AI, the former of which is getting its own blog

Sorry, but, every year we have "a lot of changes" in the ME. 

Do you remember blogs for FM20 where they said they improve a lot centrale play and striker movement? 

 

[destmez]

45 minutes ago, legnerschorsch said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4v6wFVJY9w

I would even say graphics are better than FM. And this game is for Android and iOS!

Why does no official ever comment on the lack of progress in this area? This adds to the frustration!

We need Introduction like this in next série 5:13 a roof like this for stadiums 7:04

[destmez]

15 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Every year. 

and there is still no animation for dribbling.

In 2020.

In a football game 

And that's why when i was noob in this i Always bought fast player because thé only skill is to run faster 😑😭 and ( rabona but they use this to pass)

[destmez]

15 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

No, you are completely wrong.

The Match Engime is TOTALLY made for 2D. Not for 1d, 3d, 4d, 5d... It is specifically for 2D.

Collisions, control, pass, turn face, turn body, shooting, ALL for 2D, not a skin, is coded for 2D, All the AI is for 2D. Movements, decisions, support, ALL,  then, just AFTER finish coding, you can put whatever skin you want for it, but the engine is coded for 2D, Im not saying "I think it is", Im saying I know it is.

Any coder would know after play FM that it is coded for 2D, physics and AI.

Imagine the M.E under unity or Unreal engine 😲

[thiagoanjo]

2 minutos atrás, destmez disse:

Imagine the M.E under unity or Unreal engine 😲

Would be great, but it would take a long time to make, to code ME for 3D isnt an easy thing. SI would probably needs a second Dev team to work on background exclusively on that

[destmez]

Just now, thiagoanjo said:

Would be great, but it would take a long time to make, to code ME for 3D isnt an easy thing. SI would probably needs a second Dev team to work on background exclusively on that

And more than 4 years 😭

[srvngrc]

1 saat önce, legnerschorsch said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4v6wFVJY9w

I would even say graphics are better than FM. And this game is for Android and iOS!

Why does no official ever comment on the lack of progress in this area? This adds to the frustration!

Way way better than FM's graphics. Who knows maybe it has better ME and AI

[themadsheep2001]

23 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Sorry, but, every year we have "a lot of changes" in the ME. 

Do you remember blogs for FM20 where they said they improve a lot centrale play and striker movement? 

 

Not really the point though is it. People have asked for work on the ME and AI, they have done lots of work on both. The rest comes down whether people like it or not, which I was making no observation on

[Spedding]

11 minutes ago, destmez said:

Imagine the M.E under unity or Unreal engine 😲

didnt miles say a year or two back on a livestream that they looked into those but due to the complexity of the match engine they didn't provide what they needed so have to do it themselves.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Spedding

[destmez]

5 minutes ago, Spedding said:

didnt miles say a year or two back on a livestream that they looked into those but due to the complexity of the match engine they didn't provide what they needed 

let's go to the end of this engine we must use it 100%

Edited October 22, 2020 by destmez

[thiagoanjo]

11 minutos atrás, srvngrc disse:

Way way better than FM's graphics. Who knows maybe it has better ME and AI

For what I saw, I really doubt is even close to better than FMs ME

[warlock]

44 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

Im not saying "I think it is", Im saying I know it is.

Sure, okay.

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, thiagoanjo said:

Not really, the ME is really made for flat discs on a flat table.

You can see on 3D the ball moving without the player touch it, but you wont see that on 2D, cause it is perfectly made for 2D. Also collisions and etc, all perfect for 2D.

Oh right.  How was the tour at SI's offices?  How long did they give you to look at the code and come to that conclusion?  Very accommodating of them.

Because, I mean, it couldn't be you've no idea what you're talking about, could it?

[forameuss]

24 minutes ago, Spedding said:

didnt miles say a year or two back on a livestream that they looked into those but due to the complexity of the match engine they didn't provide what they needed so have to do it themselves.

 

It makes sense.  SI have always done things with their own engine, for better or worse, so the match engine calculations under the hood will be designed to flow perfectly into the front-end for display.  Just plonking on another graphical engine I'd imagine has been seriously looked at, because why wouldn't you?  But it makes sense that it would be discounted.  Even if it did prove to be possible (of course, everything is possible, but I mean on a realistic timescale), SI probably want to keep everything in-house.  As many companies do.  Where I work, there's a good mixture of both.  If a vendor product is absolutely perfect for your needs and easy enough to integrate, you use that.  A lot of the time you'll use proprietary stuff though.

[destmez]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

It makes sense.  SI have always done things with their own engine, for better or worse, so the match engine calculations under the hood will be designed to flow perfectly into the front-end for display.  Just plonking on another graphical engine I'd imagine has been seriously looked at, because why wouldn't you?  But it makes sense that it would be discounted.  Even if it did prove to be possible (of course, everything is possible, but I mean on a realistic timescale), SI probably want to keep everything in-house.  As many companies do.  Where I work, there's a good mixture of both.  If a vendor product is absolutely perfect for your needs and easy enough to integrate, you use that.  A lot of the time you'll use proprietary stuff though.

Yeah its a difficult and risky process 

[-Jef-]

Rather have as good as ME currently is than the crapshoot that are 3D engines of FIFA and PES.

[grade]

22 minutes ago, destmez said:

Imagine the M.E under unity or Unreal engine 😲

That would be awesome, but... unlikely. 

First there is the minimum settings, SI wants to cater for those who have old PCs/MACs (one note if you want MacOS Catalina on your mac it only supports 64 bits programs, meaning anything prior to FM18 can't run). Using an engine like that would up the minimum requirement, which seems unlikely.

Using such an engine, may require some licensing fee or something, while this one the base was Virtual Soccer, which belonged to Sega. if there is any licensing fee would not be in the numbers of Unreal Engine or Unity.

There is also, something Miles said a few years ago, on interview for the release of FM15. Here is quote: "When people play their first match as well it's very difficult to avoid the 2000 new animations that are in the game. It is looking a lot better. It doesn't look like a game from the 90s anymore. Still not maybe looking like a game from 2015 for those who expect FIFA and PES level graphics, but then that's not what we're striving for. We're striving to make the game look like a real game of football. We don't want it to look like an arcade simulation of football. And that will still take us a few years. We're quite realistic about that. We have a longterm plan for the match engine and this year is the first step in that new longterm plan."

I'm part of  85% (that Miles tweeted), that uses the 3D.  However, It is okay 3D graphics, I hoped for better, like something more fluid and natural as FIFA or PES graphics. Despite 6 years has pass and I seen much improvement of the 3D graphics... but reading that statement long ago, I imagine a far, far, far better 3D graphics that we have today.

[themadsheep2001]

Enough of the digs and jibes at each other, and general off topicness, way too much of that and people stating unverifiable information as fact going on. If people have nothing constructive to offer, better to simply not post

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, legnerschorsch said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4v6wFVJY9w

I would even say graphics are better than FM. And this game is for Android and iOS!

Why does no official ever comment on the lack of progress in this area? This adds to the frustration!

The stadium (only one type as far as I can see) looks more realistic than those in FM, the sounds are certainly better and it's free

[Dbuk1]

People constantly relating things to FIFA and the like is pointless. Just a match engine designed for 3D would be a start so when we watch it the players move smoothly, no phantom ball touches, player collisions. The list is very long on what an actual 3D match engine would improve.

[Lexis]

58 minutes ago, destmez said:

And that's why when i was noob in this i Always bought fast player because thé only skill is to run faster 😑😭 and ( rabona but they use this to pass)

In FM11 there were step overs. I ve no idea why they removed them and have not managed to replace them in 10 years....10 years. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Lexis

[DP]

10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Oh right.  How was the tour at SI's offices?  How long did they give you to look at the code and come to that conclusion?  Very accommodating of them.

Because, I mean, it couldn't be you've no idea what you're talking about, could it?

You don’t need a tour to see there’s no collision detection. 

[forameuss]

Just now, DP said:

You don’t need a tour to see there’s no collision detection. 

Except there is, at least to some degree.  Go back to FM12 to see what actually not having collision detection would do to the game.

[Dbuk1]

Real detection like players joustling for the ball down the touch line shoulder to shoulder etc. 

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, destmez said:

We need Introduction like this in next série 5:13 a roof like this for stadiums 7:04

The other thing I noticed was that all the team names and logos are correct across the leagues.  SI always claim that they can't do this because of licence issues, so how come that this game can do it.

[destmez]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

The other thing I noticed was that all the team names and logos are correct across the leagues.  SI always claim that they can't do this because of licence issues, so how come that this game can do it.

👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾✔️ Sometimes they really can't like with Juventus 

[Lexis]

7 minutes ago, Dbuk1 said:

Real detection like players joustling for the ball down the touch line shoulder to shoulder etc. 

How do you want that to happen?

This game is made to run on toasters. Doesn t even leverage resources that would be available from a 7 year old decent rigs. And they won t use them, because they d cut off people with 15 year old rigs.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Lexis

[DP]

9 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Except there is, at least to some degree.  Go back to FM12 to see what actually not having collision detection would do to the game.

Are you sure that isn’t better animations? I’ve not seen any evidence of real collision detection. 
 

SI have said that’s a reason keepers cannot foul. 

[Tony Wright 747]

2 minutes ago, destmez said:

👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾✔️ Sometimes they really can't like with Juventus 

Yes, Iv'e always accepted that, but this is a small developer who is putting the game out for free, surely they wouldn't be able to afford the licences necessary

[forameuss]

6 minutes ago, DP said:

Are you sure that isn’t better animations? I’ve not seen any evidence of real collision detection. 
 

SI have said that’s a reason keepers cannot foul. 

"Collision detection" is probably a bit vague.  I agree, there isn't really the same kind of Frostbite shenanigans you see in FIFA with players clattering into each other like slabs of meat.  It seems more like collision avoidance, more than anything else.  You don't often see players ghosting through each other, which was the thing that made FM12 such a terrible/fun (delete depending on viewpoint) engine.  Fast strikers just phased through anyone because of the complete lack of collision detection.  13 was the first one to have any kind of system in place.

That's not to say it couldn't be made better.  Every piece of FM could be made better to varying degrees.

[Dbuk1]

5 minutes ago, Lexis said:

How do you want that to happen?

This game is made to run on toasters. Doesn t even leverage resources that would be available from a 7 year old decent rigs. And they won t use them, because they d cut off people with 15 year old rigs.

I’m bored of the what about the players who play on a 15 year old laptop etc. If we continue on this path then the game will never improve in the area that matters the most THE MATCH. There are many things to care about, players with stone age computers is not one of them. We are suggesting you upgrade your pc every 7 or 8 years not every 5 bloody minutes.

[destmez]

11 minutes ago, Lexis said:

In FM11 there were step overs. I ve no idea why they removed them and have not managed to replace them in 10 years....10 years. 

the game It is developed in an unbalanced manner the M.E has visually evolved very little compared to other core of the game, note we have the same stadiums stands standssince FM17 or 18 and it's been more than 4 months since I denounce the unrealism of stadiums, but I benefit from very little support when I published a suggestion I received  0 comments but I posted youtube videos of the stadiums for 3D designer to be inspired by thing real

[HUNT3R]

FWIW, FM13 introduced collision avoidance. That's what made players NOT ghost through each other.

[Dbuk1]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

FWIW, FM13 introduced collision avoidance. That's what made players NOT ghost through each other.

When I see things like this I think I have arrived on another planet. This is not something to feel proud of. Its one of the most basic features in modern day gaming. I’m not suggesting these things are easy to code etc. But modern day expectations are not unrealistic. I mean no disrespect. I mean this for all match engine features that need improving dramatically. 2D designed engine visualised in 3D does not work.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Dbuk1

[GOODNAME]

Any idea when the live stream will be out?

[destmez]

fm20FM21 the tunnel stadiums will be there 😑😐

But if we look at the second its look like a round corner  🤸👍👍👍 

Please SI team regulate the number of tunnels per stadium we all know its isnt IMPOSSIBLE the M.e Can Hundle it 

[themadsheep2001]

Please stop clogging up the the thread with the same circular off topic discussions, particularly when half the information is opinion being portrayed as fact

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, GOODNAME said:

Any idea when the live stream will be out?

Sorry goodname, missed this amongst all the other posts. There hasn't been any info given as far as I'm aware, as soon I know I will tag you in said post

[destmez]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Please stop clogging up the the thread with the same circular off topic discussions, particularly when half the information is opinion being portrayed as fact

Yeah i agree lets talk About everything outside of the M.E 👍➡️

[destmez]

I think after the European Competition draws the presidents (chairman) should express in the media. , IRL they are present during (its not an important things its just a détail )

[naterego93]

The M.E is what makes the game. If it's broken then there's no point in getting the latest iteration. Everything else besides that is great, just fix the core of the game that people enjoy the most. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by naterego93

[azymin]

I really hope they unveil some more new features. I'm somewhat underwhelmed so far. Don't get me wrong, interactions improvements are great. Better transfers - good. 

But so far that's just not enough for me. I'll probably end buying it anyways as I do every year, but I really hope they have more stuff to announce.

[Phil930]

Honestly the number one reason I buy every year is for the database update.  The improvements are somewhat superficial to me and a distraction from the core game.  I admire the innovation, and am sure I would want to see change in the absence of the new features, but they aren't why I buy the game.  

[sam allaguy]

I've been reading on some of the earlier posts in this thread and the degradation of the pitch and stadium after FM 17 in particular is frankly saddening. 

Pretty much makes me want to go play FM 14 to 17 rather.

The marketing team are really going to have a tough time if their headline feature is extra button clicks to show emotions.. I wonder how many things in the Feature Requests forum actually get added in the game.

[FrazT]

28 minutes ago, sam allaguy said:

I've been reading on some of the earlier posts in this thread and the degradation of the pitch and stadium after FM 17 in particular is frankly saddening. 

Pretty much makes me want to go play FM 14 to 17 rather.

The marketing team are really going to have a tough time if their headline feature is extra button clicks to show emotions.. I wonder how many things in the Feature Requests forum actually get added in the game.

All feature requests are reviewed- obviously from that point there will be a process to evaluate the desirability or logistics of incorporating them into the game.  As to the %- who knows?

[ferrarinseb]

I think we lost the balance in the graphics engine 3d one which has updated models but they are certainly not enough with the animations produce. We lost the fluidity we had in pre fm 18. Can they get the balance and fluidity they can but how long it takes is the question. 

What all I hope from match engine and graphics engine is that graphics engine showcases what match engine calculates. If we see a player makes a 1 v 1 and miss it. We want to see what was the actual cause behind it whether it was wrong decision or bad touch or fear of being closed down by defender. Same for many situations happens in the match environment.

If graphic engine can't completely produce this then perhaps adding a textual context of what me try to showcase will help the situation alot better.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, ferrarinseb said:

Can they get the balance and fluidity they can but how long it takes is the question. 

This is where I am excited to see what the new animation blending system means for what the ME shows us. The only thing I could spot that really stood out was the winger dribbling down the left (around 2:50) and it seemed like he took a lot more touches than we've seen before in previous versions. Whether that's a cause of quicker animation blending, I don't know.

[ferrarinseb]

14 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

This is where I am excited to see what the new animation blending system means for what the ME shows us. The only thing I could spot that really stood out was the winger dribbling down the left and it seemed like he took a lot more touches than we've seen before in previous versions. Whether that's a cause of quicker animation blending, I don't know.

I'm hopeful but I have to see some match day to get an idea. And obviously nothing is better than watching in your own monitor. The new animations we have in my opinion reduced the response we used and expected to see, which we had in the past. If this new blending system can get it back match engine might be a different beast.

[russell9]

12 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Every year. 

and there is still no animation for dribbling.

In 2020.

In a football game 

Yes player animation is so bland and generic we can't see any differences between a sunday league player and Messi.
It was better in the old FM. How could it deteriorated into such state it's so sad.
I feel like the guy who lead FM development and direction is now like a manager who has lost his passion and mojo.