Brexit in FM21

[TioPatinhax]

Thank you Jordan

[StanG]

I apologize if it doesn't belong here or if I have missed something, but anybody else having this match squad rule of 6 domestic U23 players.

Just got promoted to Premier League with Sunderland, year 2022, removed Brexit from my save.

[Caning the Days]

I know changes to the way we play the game can be hard to take, but there seems far too much hostility to this aspect of the game. The reality is coming, soon. It is gonna be hard IRL, but at least in FM it can be approached as a harmless challenge. The only thing that seems to get more threads and comments than Brexit is how 'easy' people seem to be finding the game, so one of them has to give...

Personally I think it will be a more interesting challenge. If fewer imports are available then players from your youth team will be more valuable and able to play for your 1st team. It may be a change for those who previously liked to sign foreign wonderkids, and I was once one of those, but there are whole other huge aspects of the game to explore in developing young players and building infrastructure at clubs.

If you really hate it then you can always play in other countries. You can pretend you are a maverick foreign coach and you eat unusual foods and are more 'cultured' if you like as well. Or just sit on a bucket and smoke a whole packet of fags per game ;-)

[Peter G]

If you sign a player who needs a work permit, by loaning him out to a European Country could he earn one this way after x days? How does that work?

[TioPatinhax]

14 horas atrás, JordanMillward_1 disse:

Band 3: https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/rules-and-regulations/2020-21/gbe-criteria/gbe-mens-players-criteria-jan-2021.ashx

Would also like to ask you something else, in real life my country Portugal is getting closer and closer to the 5h place in the UEFA rankings, now occupied by France. and next year we might overtake them. If that happens, will Portugal then be considered a Band 1 country?

 

Thank you

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, TioPatinhax said:

Would also like to ask you something else, in real life my country Portugal is getting closer and closer to the 5h place in the UEFA rankings, now occupied by France. and next year we might overtake them. If that happens, will Portugal then be considered a Band 1 country?

 

Thank you

No idea, that'd be a decision for the FA to make.

[denv]

Still sometimes getting WP rejections like this, which are a bug right? Wage and transfer fee shouldn't be coming into it, should they? (In this case I think a WP may have been correctly refused, but I did not get the "red bar" warning on the transfer or contract offer page)

 

[CaptCanuck]

1 hour ago, denv said:

Still sometimes getting WP rejections like this, which are a bug right? Wage and transfer fee shouldn't be coming into it, should they? (In this case I think a WP may have been correctly refused, but I did not get the "red bar" warning on the transfer or contract offer page)

 

Funny, I looked at bringing him to Brighton, but went with a winger instead :-) IRL that he is a starter for Bristol City should make him an easy WP getter based on the Band 2 rating for the Championship.

It almost looks like FM21 is conflating their old system for WPs with however they are doing the logic for the new system. Transfer fee definitely DOES NOT matter and I don't see anything about prevailing wages in the GBE and the Tier 2 sportsperson work permit category has no prevailing wage requirement either - unlike a 'regular job' you might need a WP for in the UK.

What do I know, but IMHO that is a bug and an issue raised in the bugs forum.

[Platinum]

6 hours ago, denv said:

Still sometimes getting WP rejections like this, which are a bug right? Wage and transfer fee shouldn't be coming into it, should they? (In this case I think a WP may have been correctly refused, but I did not get the "red bar" warning on the transfer or contract offer page)

 

Definitely a  bug 

[StevehFC]

8 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

Funny, I looked at bringing him to Brighton, but went with a winger instead :-) IRL that he is a starter for Bristol City should make him an easy WP getter based on the Band 2 rating for the Championship.

It almost looks like FM21 is conflating their old system for WPs with however they are doing the logic for the new system. Transfer fee definitely DOES NOT matter and I don't see anything about prevailing wages in the GBE and the Tier 2 sportsperson work permit category has no prevailing wage requirement either - unlike a 'regular job' you might need a WP for in the UK.

What do I know, but IMHO that is a bug and an issue raised in the bugs forum.

I've managed to sign him for my Hibs side on loan without any issues. 

[wicksyFM]

On 05/12/2020 at 14:22, jdubsnz said:

I'm trying to figure out how the WP system works as it doesn't seem to have any consistency unless I am missing something.  Take these 3 players I signed in my second season of an Arsenal save - Kaiky (joining in January), Manuel Ugarte and Matteo Lovato.  Only Kaiky got a WP, with no youth caps and no senior games for his club.  Lovato (Italy) and Ugarte (Uruguay) have been capped at U21/U23 level, and Ugarte played 55 games in the Uruguayan league but didn't get a WP. 

I had a WP permit rejected for Matteo Lovato and I just can’t work out how. The lad plays for Hellas Verona in the Serie A. He had made league appearances for them in the Serie A and he was capped at u21 level. Why would he be rejected 🤷‍♂️

[CaptCanuck]

@wicksyFM- You're right that does look a55 backwards

Especially when we're not supposed to be able to sign 17yr olds? Although if he is not joining you until his 18th birthday it's OK? That just looks all kind of wonky.

I'm going to do a test in Jan 21 (still in 2020) and see who does/doesn't get WPs, as these examples here look like bugs. Should raise them and upload a save for SI to look at.

[JordanMilly]

1 minute ago, CaptCanuck said:

Especially when we're not supposed to be able to sign 17yr olds? Although if he is not joining you until his 18th birthday it's OK?

That's correct. You can buy a player under 18, but they won't move until the transfer window after their 18th birthday. That's how it's worked for non-EU under 18s for years, it just also applies to EU youth players from 1st Jan 2021.

[CaptCanuck]

14 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

That's correct. You can buy a player under 18, but they won't move until the transfer window after their 18th birthday. That's how it's worked for non-EU under 18s for years, it just also applies to EU youth players from 1st Jan 2021.

Ya I was a little slow on the math - especially since they do the dates wrong here in the States - I am always thinking I need to flip them and getting the day/month backwards

[CaptCanuck]

This is interesting, WPs needed to be renewed every 3yrs (or less if the contract isn't for 3+ years) until such time a rotten foreigner gets a British passport. But here we have it for 'the duration' which is a 5yr deal.

Will check if it's been raised and will if not, as the official doc says:

"A GBE under Tier 2 of the PBS will be granted for three years or the length of the player’s contract (whichever is shorter) "

[Platinum]

7 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

This is interesting, WPs needed to be renewed every 3yrs (or less if the contract isn't for 3+ years) until such time a rotten foreigner gets a British passport. But here we have it for 'the duration' which is a 5yr deal.

Will check if it's been raised and will if not, as the official doc says:

"A GBE under Tier 2 of the PBS will be granted for three years or the length of the player’s contract (whichever is shorter) "

Good find. Are you also able to sign more than 6 foreign u21 players per season?

[CaptCanuck]

3 hours ago, francis#17 said:

Good find. Are you also able to sign more than 6 foreign u21 players per season?

Now that I've made it to Jan, I was going to mess around and sell a few players to free up some cash and test out some u21s that I should/shouldn't be able to sign and see what happens, but I haven't done so yet.

[StevehFC]

Out of my database of 47000, I only have a database of 2200 players available that I can now sign. Makes managing in Scotland quite tough. 

[Gee_Simpson]

1 hour ago, StevehFC said:

Out of my database of 47000, I only have a database of 2200 players available that I can now sign. Makes managing in Scotland quite tough. 

Yeah, I think it will be tougher for Scottish clubs and any English league Championship and lower.

[StevehFC]

6 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Yeah, I think it will be tougher for Scottish clubs and any English league Championship and lower.

Tbf mate, Hibs and Hearts have some good youngsters in this year's game. 
 

Can see me raiding all the clubs in Scotland for their best youngsters. 

[r_amanze]

I’m currently doing a save in France with Lille. The date is 1st Jan 2021 and the U.K. has left the EU.

In Ligue 1 you are not allowed more than 4 non-EU players in your squad. Originally I only had 3 non-EU players. With Brexit, my 2 Scottish players, and 1 English player are all now classified as non-EU taking my squad total to 6. This has severely hindered my save. 

Do I now need to sell 2 non-EU players? Or is there a workaround?

[barsiem]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I cannot find anything on search...

Can you use the in-game editor to remove work permit restrictions?  I appreciate I could add nationalities by using it but that would mean I get a pretty unfair advantage over my rivals so I'd rather not go down this route.  Not enjoying the restrictions, albeit I know it's realistic, so want to remove.

Thanks in advance

[GuitarMan]

16 minutes ago, r_amanze said:

I’m currently doing a save in France with Lille. The date is 1st Jan 2021 and the U.K. has left the EU.

In Ligue 1 you are not allowed more than 4 non-EU players in your squad. Originally I only had 3 non-EU players. With Brexit, my 2 Scottish players, and 1 English player are all now classified as non-EU taking my squad total to 6. This has severely hindered my save. 

Do I now need to sell 2 non-EU players? Or is there a workaround?

From what you are describing unless you can get 2 of your Non EU players an EU Nationality then yes, you are likely to have to sell them. This is likely to be the kind of situation that teams will face come January... 

[Platinum]

17 minutes ago, r_amanze said:

I’m currently doing a save in France with Lille. The date is 1st Jan 2021 and the U.K. has left the EU.

In Ligue 1 you are not allowed more than 4 non-EU players in your squad. Originally I only had 3 non-EU players. With Brexit, my 2 Scottish players, and 1 English player are all now classified as non-EU taking my squad total to 6. This has severely hindered my save. 

Do I now need to sell 2 non-EU players? Or is there a workaround?

This is real life, this is what will actually happen in real life so theres no reason it wouldnt happen in the game and I'd say deal with it as if it was real life. If you really dont want it to happen then you might be able to use the editor to get around it but it wont be realistic

[GuitarMan]

2 minutes ago, barsiem said:

I'm sure this has been asked before but I cannot find anything on search...

Can you use the in-game editor to remove work permit restrictions?  I appreciate I could add nationalities by using it but that would mean I get a pretty unfair advantage over my rivals so I'd rather not go down this route.  Not enjoying the restrictions, albeit I know it's realistic, so want to remove.

Thanks in advance

League rules can only be edited in the pre game editor as far as I am aware - Second Nationality would be the only way around this with the In Game Editor as far as I know. 

[StevehFC]

23 minutes ago, GuitarMan said:

League rules can only be edited in the pre game editor as far as I am aware - Second Nationality would be the only way around this with the In Game Editor as far as I know. 

I done this once in FM19 with a player from Argentina and was able to sign him. 

[barsiem]

27 minutes ago, GuitarMan said:

League rules can only be edited in the pre game editor as far as I am aware - Second Nationality would be the only way around this with the In Game Editor as far as I know. 

Thanks - that was what I thought...  hmmm will need to decide if I want to start again or if I can live with it.  Not being able to sign wonderkids is a pretty big issue though

[Platinum]

20 minutes ago, barsiem said:

Thanks - that was what I thought...  hmmm will need to decide if I want to start again or if I can live with it.  Not being able to sign wonderkids is a pretty big issue though

You can sign them before they are 18 but I don't think they can join until they are 18 so youd have to trust the club to develop them well. I'm not 100% on this though. You can definitely sign the vast majority of wonder kids that are 18 and over though. Should even be easier to sign brazilian wonderkid. I'd say try living with it for a bit and see how it goes

Edited December 12, 2020 by francis#17

[barsiem]

26 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

You can sign them before they are 18 but I don't think they can join until they are 18 so youd have to trust the club to develop them well. I'm not 100% on this though. You can definitely sign the vast majority of wonder kids that are 18 and over though. Should even be easier to sign brazilian wonderkid. I'd say try living with it for a bit and see how it goes

Thanks but I’m already having problems.  Arezo has been denied a wp.  When I originally offered a contract In the summer transfer window I was told he’d get a permit on appeal, however come 1st jan with the new rules it was flat out refused.

Did you start you game before the patch?  That might be why it’s different for you, or it maybe I’m doing something wrong 😂

[r_amanze]

3 hours ago, GuitarMan said:

From what you are describing unless you can get 2 of your Non EU players an EU Nationality then yes, you are likely to have to sell them. This is likely to be the kind of situation that teams will face come January... 

Ok, thank you.

[r_amanze]

3 hours ago, francis#17 said:

This is real life, this is what will actually happen in real life so theres no reason it wouldnt happen in the game and I'd say deal with it as if it was real life. If you really dont want it to happen then you might be able to use the editor to get around it but it wont be realistic

Cool, thanks for the reply.

[James_W]

Have a strange one. First season with Celtic, it's just gone January and the rules have changed, where foreign players will now need work permits as there's no squad registration in Scotland. When it first kicked in, my whole squad was appearing as unregistered other than a few young players. Thankfully by the time I played a match (Old Firm derby no less :D),  most of the squad showed as available. However, three are still showing as unregistered:

Tom Rogic- Australian

Shane Duffy- Irish

Leigh Griffiths- Scottish

I can see no logical reason why these three would be unregistered, Duffy and Griff should both be non-foreign. The other foreign players in my squad are showing as 'Settled' now which is fine. Am I missing something I need to do to get these players showing as registered? 

[samdiatmh]

On 12/12/2020 at 23:01, barsiem said:

Thanks but I’m already having problems.  Arezo has been denied a wp.  When I originally offered a contract In the summer transfer window I was told he’d get a permit on appeal, however come 1st jan with the new rules it was flat out refused.

Did you start you game before the patch?  That might be why it’s different for you, or it maybe I’m doing something wrong 😂

Arezo's main problem is that he plays in Argentina (and didn't make a first team appearance for them in my save)

A short loan spell to a 2nd tier spanish side (that I have as an affiliate for precisely this purpose) saw him get a WP though, so it's only a 6-month diversion.

 

edit: also annoying is the "can't join until 18 rule" - I get why it's a thing, but a 17yo is being released and I'm snapping him up, so he goes clubless for around 6 months because he can't join me until he turns 18? sound logic

Edited December 15, 2020 by samdiatmh

[James_W]

17 hours ago, James_W said:

Have a strange one. First season with Celtic, it's just gone January and the rules have changed, where foreign players will now need work permits as there's no squad registration in Scotland. When it first kicked in, my whole squad was appearing as unregistered other than a few young players. Thankfully by the time I played a match (Old Firm derby no less :D),  most of the squad showed as available. However, three are still showing as unregistered:

Tom Rogic- Australian

Shane Duffy- Irish

Leigh Griffiths- Scottish

I can see no logical reason why these three would be unregistered, Duffy and Griff should both be non-foreign. The other foreign players in my squad are showing as 'Settled' now which is fine. Am I missing something I need to do to get these players showing as registered? 

I was missing something, clicking the 'Unr' beside their name brought me to a registration page that I had never seen before. Stupid from myself, but feel this could have been communicated clearer.

[Mayzie]

17 hours ago, samdiatmh said:

edit: also annoying is the "can't join until 18 rule" - I get why it's a thing, but a 17yo is being released and I'm snapping him up, so he goes clubless for around 6 months because he can't join me until he turns 18? sound logic

 

You should be given the option to allow him to join on trial until he joins permanently.  I've used that on numerous occasions on previous versions of FM.  At least they're training with your squad then.

[CaptCanuck]

6 hours ago, James_W said:

I was missing something, clicking the 'Unr' beside their name brought me to a registration page that I had never seen before. Stupid from myself, but feel this could have been communicated clearer.

From the Squad list? If so, indeed thanks for the tip, I had assumed those were just info icons and not links.

[Platinum]

So Scotland are keeping their current work permit rules post Brexit which is a massive positive for them. Does this require an update for the game?

[JordanMilly]

2 hours ago, francis#17 said:

So Scotland are keeping their current work permit rules post Brexit which is a massive positive for them. Does this require an update for the game?

Well, they keep it until the end of the season, which isn't the same as keeping it full stop. It will require an update, yea, so I'd imagine it to be rolled out during January or at the end of January in the Winter Transfer update.

[StevehFC]

1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Well, they keep it until the end of the season, which isn't the same as keeping it full stop. It will require an update, yea, so I'd imagine it to be rolled out during January or at the end of January in the Winter Transfer update.

Great to know Jordan

 

[Safe Hands]

Is there any way to appeal? Signed a Honduras international on a free, he has Italian dual nationality,  played 40 games for a club in Italy last season, he be my best player. 2nd season in league 1 england.

[Safe Hands]

Really annoying , had to sell a top centre back. He was fringe 1st season but developed and was going to be starter this year, didnt get a contract so had to sell to a rival In my league

[Skippy]

A lot of pages here but does anyone know if a player becomming a British citizen still is in effect in the new rules

[Robert.mfa]

Is it post Brexit effect that signing Donnaruma on free contract in Jan 2021 (his contact with Milan ends in June 2021), his contract with my club starts in 01/01/2022 instead of July 2021?? Similarly Liverpool signed Alaba with same effect.. 

[charli87]

Will there be an update soon to default database regarding agreement change (post brexit rules) for UK countries?

The current work permit rules are incorrect and don't reflect new published rule changes IRL? 

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

New rules actually make it easier for English clubs to sign South American youth for example... whereas the rules in default database are extremely pessimistic and essentially ban foreign transfer activity beyond established internationals. This isn't realistic but I understand why developers chose to reflect a hard brexit without knowing the full extent of what the final picture would look like. 

Given its such a game breaker, does anyone know whether SI are considering a quick update to reflect the softer picture that is emerging IRL? 

 

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, charli87 said:

Will there be an update soon to default database regarding agreement change (post brexit rules) for UK countries?

The current work permit rules are incorrect and don't reflect new published rule changes IRL? 

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

New rules actually make it easier for English clubs to sign South American youth for example... whereas the rules in default database are extremely pessimistic and essentially ban foreign transfer activity beyond established internationals. This isn't realistic but I understand why developers chose to reflect a hard brexit without knowing the full extent of what the final picture would look like. 

Given its such a game breaker, does anyone know whether SI are considering a quick update to reflect the softer picture that is emerging IRL? 

 

The work permit rules for the English leagues has already been changed to reflect the real life rules. It's just Scotland that hasn't as they announced that they weren't changing the rules for 6 months too late to be included in the last patch.

[blejdek]

Hey guys ! Where is the option to appeal when work permit was rejected ?

[jc1]

Simply use the in game game editor for any foreign players you want by adding a home nation as their 2nd nationality, job done.

[StevehFC]

1 hour ago, jc1 said:

Simply use the in game game editor for any foreign players you want by adding a home nation as their 2nd nationality, job done.

I find I'm able to sign players from Argentina and Colombia for my Hibs side without a work permit but need a work permit for a player from Finland. 

[jc1]

8 hours ago, StevehFC said:

I find I'm able to sign players from Argentina and Colombia for my Hibs side without a work permit but need a work permit for a player from Finland. 

Are they not different rules for other parts of the world? TBH I'm just guessing. I did what you did with in game editor and added Scottish as a 2nd nationality.

[StevehFC]

5 hours ago, jc1 said:

Are they not different rules for other parts of the world? TBH I'm just guessing. I did what you did with in game editor and added Scottish as a 2nd nationality.

No idea mate. Just found it weird.