Can the concept of Basketball triangle offense be used in football?

[raktim0699]

Hello, everyone again. What makes football exciting for me is unique and innovative ideas to play the game. First of all, I would like to mention I do not consider myself a pro, but I am familiar with concepts such as positional play and tiki-taka. As a supporter of Barca, my footballing philosophy would be the same. Many great coaches have employed these methods and play styles in their teams, such as Guardiola, Kloop, Bielsa, Nagelsmann, and many others. The team you are drawn to watch is the team with identity about how they play and is easily distinguishable from others. Many people in the Football Manager community have also tried to make various copies of real-life managers' styles. But the constant search to make something different has not stopped. I continuously try to read articles about the tactical side of the game to better understand the game and determine if anything new can be used in football to make it more exciting and enjoyable? I stumbled across something which, in terms of basketball, is known as triangle offense. The relationship between positional play and triangle offense is very alike as each tries to dominate the opponent by maximizing the strength of their team's own individual players. So, my quest would, with the help of the community people, perhaps try to see if the triangle offense can be developed in FM? I will try to introduce the system and concepts in my subsequent writing to clarify it more and to gather if it is possible to create it in FM? 

 

Underpinnings of positional play and the triangle offense
Positional play is underpinned by the search for superiority behind each line of pressure, where possession is a consequence of purposeful actions. There is no pass completed for the sake of passing, and as Guardiola has previously stated, the aim is to "move the opponent, not the ball." Positional play requires players to occupy specific spaces on the pitch depending on the ball's location instead of a particular formation. Zonal positioning in possession is commonly staggered, creating triangles, diamonds, and closer passing options, leading to safer decisions. The players who do this can be interchangeable, and through efficient ball and player movement, opposition lines can be penetrated.

As you can see, there are many players on one side of the pitch congested in a small area. There is potential for the switch to expose opponents' vulnerability by isolating them with our most talented players. The triangle is commonly known as a 'read and react' offense, which lends itself well to dynamic and unpredictable sports. The offense runs as a sequence of options, with each new pass triggering a new set of possibilities. There are no set plays with predetermined decisions or actions within the triangle offense. Instead, each offensive sequence is built for the player who is open to score, not a specific individual who can be nullified by the defense. The offense can be run continuously until an available scoring opportunity presents itself, unlike set-plays with a planned finish point. There are multiple ways for a team to create the triangle. Once it is initiated, the players will be tasked with making the most favorable offensive read at that moment, based on the series of options afforded to them by how the defense plays. All five positions are interchangeable, and players are always involved in the offense irrespective of whether they have the basketball or not.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by raktim0699

[raktim0699]

57 minutes ago, raktim0699 said:

Hello, everyone again. What makes football exciting for me is unique and innovative ideas to play the game. First of all, I would like to mention I do not consider myself a pro, but I am familiar with concepts such as positional play and tiki-taka. As a supporter of Barca, my footballing philosophy would be the same. Many great coaches have employed these methods and play styles in their teams, such as Guardiola, Kloop, Bielsa, Nagelsmann, and many others. The team you are drawn to watch is the team with identity about how they play and is easily distinguishable from others. Many people in the Football Manager community have also tried to make various copies of real-life managers' styles. But the constant search to make something different has not stopped. I continuously try to read articles about the tactical side of the game to better understand the game and determine if anything new can be used in football to make it more exciting and enjoyable? I stumbled across something which, in terms of basketball, is known as triangle offense. The relationship between positional play and triangle offense is very alike as each tries to dominate the opponent by maximizing the strength of their team's own individual players. So, my quest would, with the help of the community people, perhaps try to see if the triangle offense can be developed in FM? I will try to introduce the system and concepts in my subsequent writing to clarify it more and to gather if it is possible to create it in FM? 
 

 

[raktim0699]

How can i create this pattern if any of you are familiar or need further clarification? Thanks

[lfds89]

That's pretty much how everyone plays possession football: creating triangles or diamonds to advance and, for instance, Guardiola says "create on one side, finish on the other" (about using the weak side).

About creating those movements on FM, it has been discussed on some threads. You can find some people experimenting on Total Football, Recreating Cruyff's Ajax, Recreating GPG's Atalanta or Recreating Pep Guardiola's Barcelona. In summary, such fluid movement is impossible to recreate on a regular basis. Given the right attributes, TIs, PIs and PPMs it happens occasionally.

About replicating tactics from other sports: each sport has its rules and its difficulties. Offside line makes football a completely different game from every other sport. Also, in basketball getting to the corner will translate on a much better position than in football, meaning that in football you really have to get close to the goal, so the movement needed is different

[sporadicsmiles]

Honestly it is very difficult to know what you want to implement here. For example the idea of a passing triangle is one of the cornerstone concepts of passing football. The idea of pass and move? Of flexible roles? The one thing you post of football shows an overload. I'm not a basketball enthusiast, but these games are vastly different in how they function. In basketball points are relatively easy to come by compared to football and your time in possession is limited. I would think this would lead to different tactics popping up that cannot easily be transposed. Or if they can it is rather laterally, like saying that going for it for 10 minutes after half time to catch the opposition cold is the equlivalent of a power play from cricket.

Another thing to keep in mind is a triangle in basketball uses over half of the available players. A similar thing in football would use 6 or 7 players. So there is a scale issue too. 

[zyfon5]

16 hours ago, raktim0699 said:

Hello, everyone again. What makes football exciting for me is unique and innovative ideas to play the game. First of all, I would like to mention I do not consider myself a pro, but I am familiar with concepts such as positional play and tiki-taka. As a supporter of Barca, my footballing philosophy would be the same. Many great coaches have employed these methods and play styles in their teams, such as Guardiola, Kloop, Bielsa, Nagelsmann, and many others. The team you are drawn to watch is the team with identity about how they play and is easily distinguishable from others. Many people in the Football Manager community have also tried to make various copies of real-life managers' styles. But the constant search to make something different has not stopped. I continuously try to read articles about the tactical side of the game to better understand the game and determine if anything new can be used in football to make it more exciting and enjoyable? I stumbled across something which, in terms of basketball, is known as triangle offense. The relationship between positional play and triangle offense is very alike as each tries to dominate the opponent by maximizing the strength of their team's own individual players. So, my quest would, with the help of the community people, perhaps try to see if the triangle offense can be developed in FM? I will try to introduce the system and concepts in my subsequent writing to clarify it more and to gather if it is possible to create it in FM? 

 

Underpinnings of positional play and the triangle offense
Positional play is underpinned by the search for superiority behind each line of pressure, where possession is a consequence of purposeful actions. There is no pass completed for the sake of passing, and as Guardiola has previously stated, the aim is to "move the opponent, not the ball." Positional play requires players to occupy specific spaces on the pitch depending on the ball's location instead of a particular formation. Zonal positioning in possession is commonly staggered, creating triangles, diamonds, and closer passing options, leading to safer decisions. The players who do this can be interchangeable, and through efficient ball and player movement, opposition lines can be penetrated.

As you can see, there are many players on one side of the pitch congested in a small area. There is potential for the switch to expose opponents' vulnerability by isolating them with our most talented players. The triangle is commonly known as a 'read and react' offense, which lends itself well to dynamic and unpredictable sports. The offense runs as a sequence of options, with each new pass triggering a new set of possibilities. There are no set plays with predetermined decisions or actions within the triangle offense. Instead, each offensive sequence is built for the player who is open to score, not a specific individual who can be nullified by the defense. The offense can be run continuously until an available scoring opportunity presents itself, unlike set-plays with a planned finish point. There are multiple ways for a team to create the triangle. Once it is initiated, the players will be tasked with making the most favorable offensive read at that moment, based on the series of options afforded to them by how the defense plays. All five positions are interchangeable, and players are always involved in the offense irrespective of whether they have the basketball or not.

 

I think a big difference for triangle offense in basketball and football is in basketball any of the three options is a viable option to score. Whereas in football the outside guy (or the wing position in basketball) is not encouraged to shoot since you want to get as close as possible to the goal before you shoot. There are definitely similarities in patterns of play in basketball and football but they are two different games with different end objectives. A more interesting aspect that can tie basketball and football together is set piece play. In basketball setting screens and making decoy runs are common while in football teams are only starting to be more creative with their set pieces in recent years. It will be interesting to see if football will start to borrow some of the ideas from basketball as teams are starting to realize the importance of set pieces.

[raktim0699]

What am I trying to say is having a philosophy an ideal that will be our identity. Since I am managing Barca and have good technical players, I want to take advantage of their individual quality. For example, the best player in Barca who is at the end of his career currently is Messi. I want to take advantage of his quality and what he can do by giving him the right support around him. In FM 21, he is a world-class player. Trying to compete against him individually is dreadful for the opponent and an advantage if we can assist him properly with other players. He has the following traits: excellent for a creative player, i.e., likes to switch the ball to flanks, comes deep to get the ball, tries killer balls often, runs with the ball, and cuts inside from right wings. So it seems like the ideal position for him would be on the right wings with a creative role that attracts opponents and has freedom. The two roles that come to my mind for him on the right wings are AP or IW on support duty. But he can't do everything by himself, so we need to put other players around him with the right roles and responsibilities that correspond to their unique traits. I want to play in a 4-1-4-1, which would be consistent throughout. If he is in support duty as an Inverted Winger, then I want to put WB (A) duty to opposite flanks to use his traits switch the ball to another side. The WB (A), on the other side, should be played by Jordi Alba, who also has compatible traits; for example, he gets forward whenever possible. With Fati on the opposite side with Alba, playing a goal scorer inside forward on the support because he has excellent off the ball movement with added traits such as moves into channels and other traits that he will learn are beats offside traps or gets into opposition area. So I feel here all of this makes sense about trying to utilize Messi's characteristics. So what other roles and combos you recommend for other positions?