How Long Before You Abandon a Tactic?

[DasMagicMullet]

Just as a general wondering.

Started with Tromso, with the intent of implementing 4231 Tiki Taka, and whilst I'm dominating possession, I've had a very poor start to the season (6 points from first 6 games).

How long do you guys normally wait before abandoning? I don't want to pull the emergency Gegenpress cord on this save.

[RinusFM]

Mostly when I get enough quality players.. Around 5 years ingame or so. I change my tactic to more central play and no wingers. Sometimes I just switch the attackers or defenders for the fun. To confuse the AI, hehe. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by RinusFM

[wattzy]

I’m close to abandoning the whole game as can’t get any tactic whatsoever working since the update 

[marioNOW]

No matter what I try, there is the same pattern. My CBs and WBs just hoofing it forward for my striker behind to run in behind the line. I have extremely short passing (or what is the zero on that scale), higher tempo, attacking mentality, focus on wings and play out of the back. Pass it shorter on my CBs, take fewer risks. On WBs cross from deep, cross less often, pass it shorter. 

After setting up every instruction to specifically do a thing (pass it short from the back) they just yeet it most of the time when there is a DLP asking for the ball ummarked. I know they are ****-tier players with bad decision making, but again at some point I should see what I set up on the tactics to be represented on the pitch. 

Also a lot of the time my WBs doing the same thing like in FM20, waiting on the cross until the defender tracks back and hits that one man standing in front, or they pull back a cross for the area between the the 18-30 yard for the AM which absolutely pointless and so annoying. Though I have to admit I have not seen a cross from deep near from the touchline towards a run in behind (imagine a Beckham like deep cross from the half line) so far from my FM career  . 

  I did not play with the beta unfortunately so I have not seen any play in the middle like on streams. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by marioNOW
spelling

[shwanko]

I use 3-4 tactics to counter opposition formation and work wonderfully  for me 

I often wait till player learn formation and their knowledge about it is high .. if is still not working .. I change and revise  

[samdiatmh]

1 hour ago, marioNOW said:

After setting up every instruction to specifically do a thing (pass it short from the back) they just yeet it most of the time when there is a DLP asking for the ball ummarked. I know they are ****-tier players with bad decision making, but again at some point I should see what I set up on the tactics to be represented on the pitch.

happens for my midtable Prem side too

 

"distribute to full backs", "play out of defence", heck.. even a DM there as a simple option
so what does this idiot do? PUNTS TO AML and he loses the header

and then I'll fix that error, and my DC (yeah, whatever, the GK is passing it to a defender.. that's enough) will start punting it like he's Luiz (no, you have a passing stat of ~10, just a simple pass to the DM would be suffice)

[herne79]

I've never "abandoned" a tactic.  If it isn't working how I want I'll figure out the issues and fix it.  Sometimes it's because I've done something dumb or misunderstood what something does.  Sometimes it's because I have the wrong player(s) in the wrong role(s).

If you are struggling though the best thing you can do is head to the Tactics forum, post your detailed tactical setup, describe what issues you are having and somebody there will probably be able to give you some fresh ideas .

One thing I will add when designing a new tactic - unless you really know what you are doing and how to set something up, always start small and build from there.  Never start by throwing umpteen instructions at a tactic.  If something goes wrong (and it probably will) it is much easier to see the cause of issues when you don't have many instructions.  It is also much easier to add things from a small starting position to create a style of play than it is to take things away from a massive starting point.

Oh, and never build a tactic without your players in mind.  It is one thing to ask your players to do something (ie., your tactic), it is something else entirely whether they'll be able to pull it off to any degree of competency (ie., their attributes).

[oblongata21]

Played with the same tactic, got FM'ed in 3 consecutive games....total number of shots by my opponents was something like 16 over the three games. Probably due to bad luck more than anything

Changed tactic and won 4 in a row.

Takes a few losses in a row for me to change, but i always have a backup tactic ready to try if my first one gets figured out

Edited November 30, 2020 by oblongata21

[zyfon5]

17 hours ago, marioNOW said:

higher tempo, attacking mentality

That is your problem there. Remember mentality changes everything in your tactical settings. A CB with an attacking mentality will still try risky passes even if he is asked to play less risky passes. Higher tempo means they will constantly try to play the ball forwards at any opportunity coupled with attacking mentality yeah I am not surprised you get the kind of football that you describe. Get the mentality right in your settings first them deal with other instructions.

[Johnny Ace]

10 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

That is your problem there. Remember mentality changes everything in your tactical settings. A CB with an attacking mentality will still try risky passes even if he is asked to play less risky passes. Higher tempo means they will constantly try to play the ball forwards at any opportunity coupled with attacking mentality yeah I am not surprised you get the kind of football that you describe. Get the mentality right in your settings first them deal with other instructions.

It happens even on Cautious to be fair

[zyfon5]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

It happens even on Cautious to be fair

And mentality is only one part of the tactic. What are the other team instructions and the player roles? What does the formation looks like? Playing out of the back is not going to do anything beyond your CB if you do not have a DM position. The GK plays short to the CB and that is the end of the instruction if you do not have a DM. Even if you get all your team instructions right, each outfield player has a flair attribute (Eccentricity for GK), the higher the flair attribute, the more likely a player is going to deviate from your instructions doing crazy unexpected things.

And we also have to look at the opposition tactics. Are the ST pressing very close to your CB leaving them with little space and time on the ball? Hence they have to hoof the ball up most of the time.

PS: Does people know what the 'Play out of the back' EXACTLY do? I have a suspicion looking from a lot of tactics from other people that they actually do not.

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, zyfon5 said:

And mentality is only one part of the tactic. What are the other team instructions and the player roles? What does the formation looks like? Playing out of the back is not going to do anything beyond your CB if you do not have a DM position. The GK plays short to the CB and that is the end of the instruction if you do not have a DM. Even if you get all your team instructions right, each outfield player has a flair attribute (Eccentricity for GK), the higher the flair attribute, the more likely a player is going to deviate from your instructions doing crazy unexpected things.

And we also have to look at the opposition tactics. Are the ST pressing very close to your CB leaving them with little space and time on the ball? Hence they have to hoof the ball up most of the time.

PS: Does people know what the 'Play out of the back' EXACTLY do? I have a suspicion looking from a lot of tactics from other people that they actually do not.

Yes I do  I've already logged a report for keepers, have a look at the PKMs, roles & tactic I posted. The backline drops back & spreads then the keeper yeets it up field under very little pressure 

I'm suspecting the same for CDs too but I've not looked into that much. From what I've seen they like to punts balls over the backline for strikers to run onto the same as keepers (I've logged a PKM of that one)

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I give up on the first defeat. >_>

[joshpmilton]

19 hours ago, herne79 said:

I've never "abandoned" a tactic.  If it isn't working how I want I'll figure out the issues and fix it.  Sometimes it's because I've done something dumb or misunderstood what something does.  Sometimes it's because I have the wrong player(s) in the wrong role(s).

If you are struggling though the best thing you can do is head to the Tactics forum, post your detailed tactical setup, describe what issues you are having and somebody there will probably be able to give you some fresh ideas .

One thing I will add when designing a new tactic - unless you really know what you are doing and how to set something up, always start small and build from there.  Never start by throwing umpteen instructions at a tactic.  If something goes wrong (and it probably will) it is much easier to see the cause of issues when you don't have many instructions.  It is also much easier to add things from a small starting position to create a style of play than it is to take things away from a massive starting point.

Oh, and never build a tactic without your players in mind.  It is one thing to ask your players to do something (ie., your tactic), it is something else entirely whether they'll be able to pull it off to any degree of competency (ie., their attributes).

Absolutely agree with these two pieces of advice.

Recently joined a new team in my save, and the first thing I did was to work through the various pages of advice from my coaching staff on who my best players and what their strengths are. This helped me figure out how I'm going to win games. I'll identify the weaknesses in my team and look to mitigate my flaws i.e. how I'm most likely to lose a game. As it happens my team is incredibly front heavy, which meant adopting the 4-2-3-1 so that I could feature the array of attacking options I have.

Unfortunately, my team are terrible at everything, so there was no clear style of play. For that I used the Clean Slate option when building my tactic and slowly build up a style of play based on the same squad information (my team has a low work rate, so pressing isn't for me) and what I'm seeing in matches. Over time my style will adapt to both what works, but also the quality of player at my disposal. I have a few areas I need to fix, such as my fullbacks often have awful match ratings, and finding a MC that fits into my MCL role that works alongside my MCR Deep Lying Playmaker. Even in that area, by adapting the tactic as I go I could see that my MCL was too advanced and limiting my MCR's passing options, so was able to drop them back and helped my build up play.