Should i carry on with my save - Youth Intake Problems

[Pattric_b]

I holidayed one season in my current save to see what would happen and countries I didn’t load like Croatia, USA, Denmark, and Greece produced zero newgens. My total player count dropped by 2k also. 

[oblongata21]

Is this still broken?

I literally cant play unless this is fixed

[1891]

Yes, it's still just as broken as it were before the patch.

[wicksyFM]

Little test to have a look at newgen creation in unplayable leagues

Premiership the only playable league - Small Database

First Year produced 360 newgens from unplayable leagues

Second year produced 49 newgens from unplayable

Third year produced 23 newgens from unplayable

So many nations (to many to list) have never produced a newgen in 3 years

[Mojo_Pin]

Very frustrating. Seems underhand to release the game with so many basic issues.

[wicksyFM]

1 minute ago, Mojo_Pin said:

Very frustrating. Seems underhand to release the game with so many basic issues.

It is a small database so i didnt expect much from unplayable leagues. But some big nations not having a single newgen did surprise me. Im doin the same test now with a large database

[MyNameIsJohn]

Disappointing.  I'll check back next week in the hope it's fixed.

[hungmn]

8 hours ago, lucasnake said:

The bug testing section of SI needs to really step their game up. How could they release the game with such an game breaking bug as this, and then proceed to release a patch that claims to fix it, yet it doesn't. This is unnaceptable, in my opinion.

Calm down. This is a special year, I doubt the team have a lot of time working together. Big issue but understandable 

[luka_zg]

Yeah, this is really a huge issue. I don't care atm, playing as Barcelona I won't play more then 5 or 6 seasons so this doesn't really concern my current save but for lon term saves this is gamebreaking.

[Mr U Rosler]

45 minutes ago, wicksyFM said:

Little test to have a look at newgen creation in unplayable leagues

Premiership the only playable league - Small Database

First Year produced 360 newgens from unplayable leagues

Second year produced 49 newgens from unplayable

Third year produced 23 newgens from unplayable

So many nations (to many to list) have never produced a newgen in 3 years

Out of interest, how many new gens would you roughly expect? 

[wicksyFM]

Just now, Mr U Rosler said:

Out of interest, how many new gens would you roughly expect? 

I will be honest. Im not sure. With a small database i did not expect many. But i was surprised that some decent nations did not produce any

[BamBamBam]

I normally wait until January but thought i'd get it this year on release date. My mistake!!! 

[kandersson]

33 minutes ago, hungmn said:

Calm down. This is a special year, I doubt the team have a lot of time working together. Big issue but understandable 

It's a special year for everyone including people buying the game. We didn't get a special price though. Game-breaking issue, not fixed.

[RinusFM]

Hmm now I am worried again, lol. I have 20 countries. 40 leagues. Only Ireland playable and rest as viewable. Have selected them to playable now. Wondering how much it will crush my game-speed, but ok. Continue playing or not to continue. Hhmmmm. 

Edit: Perhaps it's worth it to not release FM2022, but take a leap year. Polishing FM2021 and release FM2023 or FM 2024 in a year or two. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by RinusFM

[Sharkn20]

They released a hot fix just now fixing that.

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, Andrew James said:

The latest update contains improvements for this issue. We’ve increased the leniency for top clubs’ player count in non-playable leagues which should increase the likelihood of certain clubs receiving youth intakes each year.

The fix is save game compatible but this doesn’t mean that loads of new newgens will start appearing in all nations in your save straight away. Newgens have a pre-generation date around 3 months before they appear in game, so the fix will apply to the next pre-generation dates, rather than next intake date.

I also want to clarify that the amount of newgens that generate in the first season in non-playable leagues shouldn’t be expected every season. We use newgens to replace retiring players and keep the overall player count relatively consistent, in FM21 there are more retirements than usual in the first season, which we think is a result of more free agents at game start and the COVID 19 financial implications meaning many clubs won’t offer as many contracts. So after the inflated first season intakes, the game balances out and the player count in these inactive leagues is deemed acceptable and therefore they may not receive intakes again for some time.

We are restricted in the amount of players we can add to non-playable leagues, and the numbers in these leagues are intentionally much lower. If you want to guarantee high numbers of newgens from a specific nation, then you’ll need to add that nation as a playable league, which can be done at the start of a new game, or midway through a save via the dropdown menu.

This will likely require some further tweaks and we think there are still some issues with total player count 10+ years into saves, and the issue will be more prevalent in cases where user has used Advanced Options to load extra players into non-playable leagues. We’re working hard to iron these out and any future fixes will be save game compatible too.

Hopefully that all makes sense! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Thanks again for your patience.

[wicksyFM]

1 hour ago, wicksyFM said:

Little test to have a look at newgen creation in unplayable leagues

Premiership the only playable league - Small Database

First Year produced 360 newgens from unplayable leagues

Second year produced 49 newgens from unplayable

Third year produced 23 newgens from unplayable

So many nations (to many to list) have never produced a newgen in 3 years

Same test as again but with a large database

Premiership the only playable league - Large Database

First year produced 800 newgens from unplayable leagues

Second year produced 140 newgens from unplayable leagues

Third year produced 47 newgens from unplayable leagues

Again. Decent nations have not produced newgens in 2-3 years

[Double0Seven]

2 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

This is just a copy paste from yesterday.

This is the more new info.

As you can see they noticed some issues 8 years in now instead of the 10+ mentioned yesterday. So I guess they found more issues? 

Saw someone 1/4 of their database just 10 years in so thats pretty big... 

https://community.sigames.com/topic/538556-football-manager-2021-official-feedback-thread/?do=findComment&comment=12809358

[freddieos]

32 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

They released a hot fix just now fixing that.

you haven't been reading this thread haha. The fix doesn't improve things greatly either!

[wicksyFM]

How big this problem is will vary from person to person and how they play the game. 

People that want maximum realism and people that have lower end laptops/computers will be effectd more. 

But i think the average user should be fine. Those that load up 5-10 palayable nations and have save that lasts 10-12 years will have lots of newgens to choose from as playable leagues generate a good amount.  My test with large database created about 1000 newgens from unplayable leagues in 3 years. Thats a good amount i suppose. what worries me though is that only 47 were created in third year. 

[Andrew James]

Hi guys, have just been directed to this thread and thought I'd provide some more info where I can. 

1 hour ago, Double0Seven said:

Saw someone 1/4 of their database just 10 years in so thats pretty big... 

Cases like this where users only have 1 active league but use Advanced Options to load in extra players are affected more than "normal" setups, where the majority of total player count will be players in active leagues. 

1 hour ago, RinusFM said:

I have 20 countries. 40 leagues. Only Ireland playable and rest as viewable. Have selected them to playable now. Wondering how much it will crush my game-speed, but ok.

To clarify on this: "View Only" leagues are essentially the same as inactive leagues, but with Rules loaded so you can view league tables etc. They don't receive extra players at game start and therefore won't receive extra newgens compared to other inactive leagues either. 

If you want to guarantee newgens generate on a consistent basis in a specific nation, then you should add playable leagues in that nation. If you are adding extra players into View-Only leagues, then you may as well make them playable, as this shouldn't crush your game speed and will lead to bigger youth intakes in that nation. 

 We are still trying to iron out some issues that arise deeper into saves regarding total player count. 

[Mayzie]

1 hour ago, Andrew James said:

Hi guys, have just been directed to this thread and thought I'd provide some more info where I can. 

Cases like this where users only have 1 active league but use Advanced Options to load in extra players are affected more than "normal" setups, where the majority of total player count will be players in active leagues. 

To clarify on this: "View Only" leagues are essentially the same as inactive leagues, but with Rules loaded so you can view league tables etc. They don't receive extra players at game start and therefore won't receive extra newgens compared to other inactive leagues either. 

If you want to guarantee newgens generate on a consistent basis in a specific nation, then you should add playable leagues in that nation. If you are adding extra players into View-Only leagues, then you may as well make them playable, as this shouldn't crush your game speed and will lead to bigger youth intakes in that nation. 

 We are still trying to iron out some issues that arise deeper into saves regarding total player count. 

 

Has this always been the case or is this a change made for FM21 which hasn't worked as planned?  I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the issue here and I've been holding off creating a save until this is sorted.  The only playable league I select is the English National North/South with the intention of taking a side in the lower tiers to European domination and eventually managing the national side.  Does this mean that there will be the same number of English players to choose from but year upon year, less and less players from other nations & the player database will eventually dwindle so low that almost every player available to sign will be English?  Surely, the lack of newgens created in other nations will eventually lead to a huge disparity in terms of number and the quality of players representing their national sides.  For example, I am pretty certain that ten years into FM20, Columbia had a full first team squad, u23 squad and u18 squad of players that were not greyed out.  National management will be a complete waste of time & the nation I chose as playable will dominate forever more.

If my understanding is correct then the game, certainly how I have always played it, is fundamentally broken.

 

[1891]

Are you saying that we should not expect to get a fix for countries that are not fully loaded?

I load a huge amount of players from all over the world because I want the newgens from those countries, not the actual real players I load. I like the idea of football growing outside of the traditional countries and to see more regions of the world to start developing great players.

I doubt anyone will load all players from Cambodia and think "Hm... I wonder If I can find a gem in there?" during the first season.

[Mr U Rosler]

31 minutes ago, Mayzie said:

 

Has this always been the case or is this a change made for FM21 which hasn't worked as planned?  I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the issue here and I've been holding off creating a save until this is sorted.  The only playable league I select is the English National North/South with the intention of taking a side in the lower tiers to European domination and eventually managing the national side.  Does this mean that there will be the same number of English players to choose from but year upon year, less and less players from other nations & the player database will eventually dwindle so low that almost every player available to sign will be English?  Surely, the lack of newgens created in other nations will eventually lead to a huge disparity in terms of number and the quality of players representing their national sides.  For example, I am pretty certain that ten years into FM20, Columbia had a full first team squad, u23 squad and u18 squad of players that were not greyed out.  National management will be a complete waste of time & the nation I chose as playable will dominate forever more.

If my understanding is correct then the game, certainly how I have always played it, is fundamentally broken.

 

That's pretty much what I do, but as an academy challenge. 30 season saves. 

Not bothered about national team management, but my understanding is you would need to run with at least the top leagues from Europe and probably South America to get anything like a realistic game world. 

That will kill my laptop. 

[lukavski]

37 minutes ago, 1891 said:

Are you saying that we should not expect to get a fix for countries that are not fully loaded?

I load a huge amount of players from all over the world because I want the newgens from those countries, not the actual real players I load. I like the idea of football growing outside of the traditional countries and to see more regions of the world to start developing great players.

I doubt anyone will load all players from Cambodia and think "Hm... I wonder If I can find a gem in there?" during the first season.

This is so important for a healthy World save. 

We want an ever changing setting. We want to be surprised by the simulation of the world.

 

This is the reason many of us buy the game in the first place!

 

Without a real fix, the game is simply a boring brick.
Anyone who tries to save the game with the "I like to play on my nation's micro-setting for x seasons" narrative is lying to herself.

I hope to see another patch soon...
 

Edited December 3, 2020 by lukavski

[wicksyFM]

1 hour ago, Mayzie said:

 

Has this always been the case or is this a change made for FM21 which hasn't worked as planned?  I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding the issue here and I've been holding off creating a save until this is sorted.  The only playable league I select is the English National North/South with the intention of taking a side in the lower tiers to European domination and eventually managing the national side.  Does this mean that there will be the same number of English players to choose from but year upon year, less and less players from other nations & the player database will eventually dwindle so low that almost every player available to sign will be English?  Surely, the lack of newgens created in other nations will eventually lead to a huge disparity in terms of number and the quality of players representing their national sides.  For example, I am pretty certain that ten years into FM20, Columbia had a full first team squad, u23 squad and u18 squad of players that were not greyed out.  National management will be a complete waste of time & the nation I chose as playable will dominate forever more.

If my understanding is correct then the game, certainly how I have always played it, is fundamentally broken.

 

We are piecing info together from different bug reports. Databases shrinking in player size, not enough newgens created in inactive leagues. Some nations not having newgens created at all. Obviously we all know that we are not going to thousands of newgens from inactive leagues every year but in my third year their was only 47 created. It would be good if we could be told exactly what the problem is and why saves that are more than 10+ years will experience issues with newgens. 

[Andrew James]

59 minutes ago, Mayzie said:

Has this always been the case or is this a change made for FM21 which hasn't worked as planned?

It has always been the case with regards to View Only leagues, but we are working on improvements to the generation in these leagues as they are currently generating less than they should be.

1 hour ago, Mayzie said:

Surely, the lack of newgens created in other nations will eventually lead to a huge disparity in terms of number and the quality of players representing their national sides. 

Something we've improved for FM21 is the number of youth players that will generate in foreign nations, and there will still be a good spread of nationalities, especially amongst the highest level of players. For example, in my most recent check Brazil was not loaded as a playable nation, but they still won the World Cup in 2042. 

 

1 hour ago, 1891 said:

Are you saying that we should not expect to get a fix for countries that are not fully loaded?

No. We are still trying to get the remaining issues fixed. 

6 minutes ago, wicksyFM said:

Obviously we all know that we are not going to thousands of newgens from inactive leagues every year but in my third year their was only 47 created. It would be good if we could be told exactly what the problem is and why saves that are more than 10+ years will experience issues with newgens. 

The issue seems to be linked to an unusually high number of free agents and retirements that take place in first season of FM21, which leads to larger intakes in first season and then throws something off with the Player Count for each nation from that point forward.

These generation calculations happen each season for each nation, and therefore fixes are save game compatible.

Obviously this issue is particularly frustrating for users who play the game in a certain way with an emphasis on players in non-playable leagues, so I can only assure you we are trying to get this fixed. It's a very complicated and delicate balancing act, as well as being time consuming to test, I'll let you know if there are any further updates. 

 

[wicksyFM]

5 minutes ago, Andrew James said:

It has always been the case with regards to View Only leagues, but we are working on improvements to the generation in these leagues as they are currently generating less than they should be.

Something we've improved for FM21 is the number of youth players that will generate in foreign nations, and there will still be a good spread of nationalities, especially amongst the highest level of players. For example, in my most recent check Brazil was not loaded as a playable nation, but they still won the World Cup in 2042. 

 

No. We are still trying to get the remaining issues fixed. 

The issue seems to be linked to an unusually high number of free agents and retirements that take place in first season of FM21, which leads to larger intakes in first season and then throws something off with the Player Count for each nation from that point forward.

These generation calculations happen each season for each nation, and therefore fixes are save game compatible.

Obviously this issue is particularly frustrating for users who play the game in a certain way with an emphasis on players in non-playable leagues, so I can only assure you we are trying to get this fixed. It's a very complicated and delicate balancing act, as well as being time consuming to test, I'll let you know if there are any further updates. 

 

Thanks for this. This will answer most people’s questions. I was mostly concerned with the drop from 800 to 47 in inactive leagues and the potential issues it would have on international squads in the future. Makes much more sense now. Good luck with the fix 🤞

[LeoFM]

1 hour ago, Andrew James said:

The issue seems to be linked to an unusually high number of free agents

I think I've found something that might be related to this. When I started a new save with only one nation loaded (Sweden with all divisions playable). I searched for players aged 15-16 in the player search and found a surprising amount of free agents. They are all newgens, 15-16 years old. In total I found 2319 of these players. I didn't even advance in the save so they must have generated at the start, even though I didn't tick the "add players to playable teams" option. In terms of my advanced settings, I just loaded every player with the nationality of or based in Sweden, Norway, Germany and USA.

Surely this isn't meant to happen?

EDIT: Tested this in FM20 and the exact same thing happened, with about the same number of players. Maybe it's not related after all.

Edited December 3, 2020 by LeoFM

[Double0Seven]

Has anyone already tried with a database of only playable leagues (so no view-only at all) over 30 years or something? Does that look good? 

[jamie10lpoole]

This is a fully playable teams u20s by 2025. Several others like this as well as non playable leagues like Japan and Nigeria having 0 newgens by 2025.

The game is fundamentally broken rn

Edited December 4, 2020 by jamie10lpoole

[Double0Seven]

2 minutes ago, jamie10lpoole said:

This is a fully playable teams u20s by 2025. Several others like this as well as non playable leagues like Japan and Nigeria having 0 newgens by 2025.

The game is fundamentally broken rn

I saw someone else who even got a slight increase. How many players do you have in 2025 compared to 2020? 

[Daveincid]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Double0Seven:

Has anyone already tried with a database of only playable leagues (so no view-only at all) over 30 years or something? Does that look good? 

I have my beta-save from the early beginning at year 2045. looks not that bad to be honest. As the bugfix is savegame-compatible I just continue this save. If I'm right, there should be quite a big increase happen soon.

[jamie10lpoole]

5 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I saw someone else who even got a slight increase. How many players do you have in 2025 compared to 2020? 

I dropped 7k players in total, starting from 78k and down to 71k

[Double0Seven]

5 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

I have my beta-save from the early beginning at year 2045. looks not that bad to be honest. As the bugfix is savegame-compatible I just continue this save. If I'm right, there should be quite a big increase happen soon.

Is that save with only playable leagues with no view-only leagues? How many players do you still have compared to the start? 

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Double0Seven:

Is that save with only playable leagues with no view-only leagues? How many players do you still have compared to the start? 

only playable. The problem is, I haven't the save at the start anymore.  But having 150k players in 2045 is good. There are enough youngsters in all youth squads which where playable. If I should check something specific, let me know.

Problem is the difference between unloaded leagues. Egypt for example struggles massive

[Double0Seven]

6 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

only playable. The problem is, I haven't the save at the start anymore.  But having 150k players in 2045 is good. There are enough youngsters in all youth squads which where playable. If I should check something specific, let me know.

Problem is the difference between unloaded leagues. Egypt for example struggles massive

Thanks for the info. Just waiting for ur results from the all league playable u posted in ur own bug thread. If thats good I think thats a compromise for now. Lets hope they fix view only leagues soon. 

[wicksyFM]

21 minutes ago, jamie10lpoole said:

This is a fully playable teams u20s by 2025. Several others like this as well as non playable leagues like Japan and Nigeria having 0 newgens by 2025.

The game is fundamentally broken rn

I’ve seen this happening in the Premier League too. Half the U18s and U20s squads are those greyed out players. Some clubs even more than half are greyed out players. When you go and look at youth intakes on the wolrld transfer page clubs in the prem are only generating a few players into the youth teams per intake. No wonder the squads are empty 

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Double0Seven:

Thanks for the info. Just waiting for ur results from the all league playable u posted in ur own bug thread. If thats good I think thats a compromise for now. Lets hope they fix view only leagues soon. 

I will run the beta version test now for 3-5 months to see if there is the expected increase. I will run the other save during the night, so I should be able to post about it tomorrow.

[BamBamBam]

46 minutes ago, wicksyFM said:

I’ve seen this happening in the Premier League too. Half the U18s and U20s squads are those greyed out players. Some clubs even more than half are greyed out players. When you go and look at youth intakes on the wolrld transfer page clubs in the prem are only generating a few players into the youth teams per intake. No wonder the squads are empty 

Is the Premier league marked as playable?

[wicksyFM]

6 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

Is the Premier league marked as playable?

Yes. They are not completely empty but their is definitely a noticeable difference to youth squads compared to previous versions of FM

[RinusFM]

I noticed that thing Jamiepoole posted as well. Preston is my mother-affilate and has no players in the 18-team. 

[BamBamBam]

1 hour ago, wicksyFM said:

Yes. They are not completely empty but their is definitely a noticeable difference to youth squads compared to previous versions of FM

FFs! I wanna play the game not wait ages for patches.....

[wicksyFM]

5 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

FFs! I wanna play the game not wait ages for patches.....

I think you can start. These issues start to become noticeable about 5 years into the save. Just don’t push on to far with your save and you should be ok as SI have said the fix is save game compatible. This is what I keep telling myself anyway. But I understand why people are waiting. Just want to start a fresh save game without these issues for peace of mind. It is frustrating 

[The Threadstarter]

Just got to early  March 2021 in my first save.  Germany, Greece so far already had intakes. In Germany only Dortmund and Bayern got intakes (cca 20 players combined) in Greece only Paok got em. Oh and in France also two clubs got em iirc. Is that how is suppose to be given the existing u 19 players? all playable leagues.

Edited December 4, 2020 by The Threadstarter

[BamBamBam]

42 minutes ago, The Threadstarter said:

Just got to early  March 2021 in my first save.  Germany, Greece so far already had intakes. In Germany only Dortmund and Bayern got intakes (cca 20 players combined) in Greece only Paok got em. Oh and in France also two clubs got em iirc. Is that how is suppose to be given the existing u 19 players? all playable leagues.

Only Bayern and Dortmund? You absolutely sure? Seems more broken than I thought. And that’s with the new patch?

[blejdek]

26 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

Only Bayern and Dortmund? You absolutely sure? Seems more broken than I thought. And that’s with the new patch?

Be careful with that, since fm 2020 the teams dont get youth intakes at the fixed dates anymore. Some teams are getting them at lets say for example 2.2.2021 (united, city, leeds, etc.), than some one 3.2.2021 (arsenal, everton, leicester), than again some on 4.2.2021 (wolwes, pool) and so on. 

[The Threadstarter]

1 minute ago, blejdek said:

Be careful with that, since fm 2020 the teams dont get youth intakes at the fixed dates anymore. Some teams are getting them at lets say for example 2.2.2021 (united, city, leeds, etc.), than some one 3.2.2021 (arsenal, everton, leicester), than again some on 4.2.2021 (wolwes, pool) and so on. 

ok that makes sense, it  is only march 9th. I assumed leagues have different dates not clubs too. 

it is w new update btw, but as it turns out it' normal.

[blejdek]

2 minutes ago, The Threadstarter said:

ok that makes sense, it  is only march 9th. I assumed leagues have different dates not clubs too. 

it is w new update btw, but as it turns out it' normal.

Jup, since 2020 both leagues and clubs have different dates. Could you go a few days further and then report if ALL teams got their youth intakes ?

[The Threadstarter]

sorry, i have a derby for first place on tenth and I wont play till tomorrow. will get back to this though.