4-3-3 Request for analysis/help (Man City)

[Sean Blinkhorn]

Hello all, I've finally caved in to asking for some help 

This year I've tried to really get stuck into the roles and shape of a tactic, in order to try and increase my knowledge in an area that is probably one of my weaknesses to be honest.

I'm getting SOME success but there are issues, and I was wondering if anybody from this esteemed forum were able to pick out any errors, clashes or observations?

---

I'm happy with the shape overall, I think it suits City well and helps form my transfer and development plans coherently.

With roles, I have read the pairs & combinations guide and role descriptions thoroughly, and: 

- I liked the idea of an attacking Mezalla getting forward and wide to create passing triangles between him, the AMR and the DR (x1 At & x2Su)

- I also liked the idea of a hopefully complimentary Carrillo, also getting wide (+ further forward) to support the AML and DL (x1At & x2Su). The idea of him being a shuttler suggested a lower workload than B2B, while the intensity is so high.

- The DLF was the first role I've used in this formation that after looking at the stats, creates a similar amount of touches than what we see in real life (around 40 per game) I've used Complete Forward in previous years, but on reflection our forwards are probably too small 

 

Player instructions:

DLP - Tackle Hard, Take More Risks
CAR - Get Further Forward, Take More Risks

I've recently switched Sterling from Raumdeuter, his attributes are a good match and I had some games in the beta where he's looked remarkably like he does in real life, but his ratings since release are low and goal output practically nothing. (I'd like to get this working, even if only when he's on the pitch)

The striker's rating ends up low despite being quite involved in games, and again, scoring poorly.

I can't decide whether to set the wingers to start narrower or stay wider. My gut says with the two players behind them wide (if my thinking here even works), they should sit narrower.

The WBs get involved in build up, as does the DM.

---

My main issue is that I seem to create a OK amount of chances with a poor conversion rate. XG varies so I couldn't really say if they are good chances or not. I often end up with poor ratings across the entire front three. While I am winning games(and conceding little atm), the scores are usually low. I've just won three games in a row after the opposition had a man sent off, two of those coming from behind.

I've also just been absolutely pasted away to Napoli in the CL, with balls over the top. I know I'm pushed high up with slower defenders but I'd rather defend by scoring loads of goals.

If any of this sounds like the problems City are actually having in real life, you can understand why I'm tearing my hair out right now. Pun intended.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers!

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sean Blinkhorn
removed pic

[Experienced Defender]

Roles and duties look good to me, the only tweak I would make is switching the striker's duty to support (instead of attack), because that would make more sense in relation to your instructions (possession-friendly tactical style). And perhaps changing his role from DLF into F9 would be a good idea, simply because I think such (more mobile) role would better suit a player like Jesus (as well as other City strikers). 

In terms of in-possession instructions, there is nothing glaringly wrong, but a small subtle tweak might be needed occasionally. 

Out of possession, I would be just a bit less aggressive. 

Also not sure why you opted for narrow defensive width (force opposition outside)? Because given your style of play, formation and the type of your defenders, I think you are more likely to be vulnerable to crosses (and generally in wider positions) than in the middle. Perhaps leaving def width on default would actually be the best option here IMHO.

[frukox]

6 hours ago, Sean Blinkhorn said:

Hello all, I've finally caved in to asking for some help 

This year I've tried to really get stuck into the roles and shape of a tactic, in order to try and increase my knowledge in an area that is probably one of my weaknesses to be honest.

I'm getting SOME success but there are issues, and I was wondering if anybody from this esteemed forum were able to pick out any errors, clashes or observations?

---

I'm happy with the shape overall, I think it suits City well and helps form my transfer and development plans coherently.

With roles, I have read the pairs & combinations guide and role descriptions thoroughly, and: 

- I liked the idea of an attacking Mezalla getting forward and wide to create passing triangles between him, the AMR and the DR (x1 At & x2Su)

- I also liked the idea of a hopefully complimentary Carrillo, also getting wide (+ further forward) to support the AML and DL (x1At & x2Su). The idea of him being a shuttler suggested a lower workload than B2B, while the intensity is so high.

- The DLF was the first role I've used in this formation that after looking at the stats, creates a similar amount of touches than what we see in real life (around 40 per game) I've used Complete Forward in previous years, but on reflection our forwards are probably too small 

Player instructions:

DLP - Tackle Hard, Take More Risks
CAR - Get Further Forward, Take More Risks

I've recently switched Sterling from Raumdeuter, his attributes are a good match and I had some games in the beta where he's looked remarkably like he does in real life, but his ratings since release are low and goal output practically nothing. (I'd like to get this working, even if only when he's on the pitch)

The striker's rating ends up low despite being quite involved in games, and again, scoring poorly.

I can't decide whether to set the wingers to start narrower or stay wider. My gut says with the two players behind them wide (if my thinking here even works), they should sit narrower.

The WBs get involved in build up, as does the DM.

---

My main issue is that I seem to create a OK amount of chances with a poor conversion rate. XG varies so I couldn't really say if they are good chances or not. I often end up with poor ratings across the entire front three. While I am winning games(and conceding little atm), the scores are usually low. I've just won three games in a row after the opposition had a man sent off, two of those coming from behind.

I've also just been absolutely pasted away to Napoli in the CL, with balls over the top. I know I'm pushed high up with slower defenders but I'd rather defend by scoring loads of goals.

If any of this sounds like the problems City are actually having in real life, you can understand why I'm tearing my hair out right now. Pun intended.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers!

As ED said you are not so far away from a good system. However, I think you need to take a close look at your right flank. MEZA, IW(S) and WB(S) goes forward, creating an overload there but who is going to move close to them and switch the point of attack from right to left, DLP(D)? No, he is going to be in DM strata in front of your defenders and away from overload. F9? No, because he is asked to move into the channels. Roaming may help mitigating this problem, but it's not enough, imho.

If you want to attack space behind the defence-you ve got three runners, think about adding Hit Early Cross and Whipped Crosses, Counter and switch the role of left full-back to attack. He's going to join the attack as soon as possible and look for at least two targets in the area before the opposition defence settle.

[Sean Blinkhorn]

Thanks both @Experienced Defender @frukox

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think such (more mobile) role would better suit a player like Jesus (as well as other City strikers). 

Straight after seeing your post last night, I lowered urgency slightly, set def width to normal (this was me attempting to combat intrusions through the middle originally) and narrowed the wingers, and had instant success with a 5-2 win v Sevilla w/ effectively my C team. 

I didn't change the ST just yet, as I had a funny feeling that where Jesus and Aguero are falling short, young Liam Delap has been thriving, and sure enough: 2 goals and an 8 rating. Is there any merit in the idea that DLFat suddenly comes alive with a 1.87m powerhouse, or is it a case of still sacrificing too much team play, get all 3 on a supporting role?

5 hours ago, frukox said:

switch the role of left full-back to attack. He's going to join the attack as soon as possible and look for at least two targets in the area before the opposition defence settle.

I like this idea, especially if I'm losing an attack duty in my striker. I'm slightly concerned about having both left wide players on attack duties however. Am I just being over-cautious with my balancing here?

Understood on your thoughts on the right side, another potential issue is my IW and MEZ both end up with average positions VERY close together, and I'm worried about them cancelling each other out!

[Sneaky Pete]

26 minutes ago, Sean Blinkhorn said:

Thanks both @Experienced Defender @frukox

Straight after seeing your post last night, I lowered urgency slightly, set def width to normal (this was me attempting to combat intrusions through the middle originally) and narrowed the wingers, and had instant success with a 5-2 win v Sevilla w/ effectively my C team. 

I didn't change the ST just yet, as I had a funny feeling that where Jesus and Aguero are falling short, young Liam Delap has been thriving, and sure enough: 2 goals and an 8 rating. Is there any merit in the idea that DLFat suddenly comes alive with a 1.87m powerhouse, or is it a case of still sacrificing too much team play, get all 3 on a supporting role?

I like this idea, especially if I'm losing an attack duty in my striker. I'm slightly concerned about having both left wide players on attack duties however. Am I just being over-cautious with my balancing here?

Understood on your thoughts on the right side, another potential issue is my IW and MEZ both end up with average positions VERY close together, and I'm worried about them cancelling each other out!

With a Car(s) and a DLP(d) your midfield is inherently quite conservative. You can easily afford an attacking fullback, particularly on the same flank as your Carrilero, who will help cover that flank in transition phases when your WB is out of position.