Those cursed last ten minutes...

[Prej]

DISCLAIMER: This is not a rant, I'm not moping that the AI is cheating and so on. Also, this is not a "losing a FM match in the dying minutes meme" thread.

 

So, I wanted to ask my fellow Players what your impressions of the AI's behaviour in the closing minutes of a match are.

For me, it was rather surprising to see that the AI (in my opinion) is even more aggressive in the last ten minutes when losing. The first few matches when I had a "comfortable" lead of at least two goals, I was stunned by how much the AI wanted my skin, and was actually getting it.

Sure, it was always a sort of FM meme that the match engine messes you up in the last minutes, but this year, oh boy.

What are your thoughts? Is it just my bad luck (and of course lack of tactical skill and basic understanding of the game), or is there something to it?

Looking forward to your input!

[Mars_Blackmon]

AI make tactical adjustments around the 80th minute and down by a certain amount. It’s almost as if they have a match plan that tells them to do so. They probably went way more attacking and you might’ve not adjusted.

 

My problem is the AI will play soft for 80 minutes then try to attack at the very last minutes when they should be making adjustments throughout the game.

[TheJock83]

Well, I always shut up shop and stick 20 pace Lirim Kastrati up front with a pass into space tactic - so I’m usually the one scoring late.

[oblongata21]

Yeah you have to watch that last 10 minutes when you are up by a goal.

The AI makes tactical adjustments to become more attacking if they are losing, and more defensive if they are up. Best bet is to slightly adjust your tactics to account for this. Not that it always works for me though....or maybe im just no good at this game

[FrazT]

I have always found that making a few minor tweaks rather than major changes will work better when the AI makes their tactical changes.  It is tempting to go very defensive when you are leading but that allows them lots of space so is probably not recommended

[Prej]

Thanks for all your responses!

What I meant with my question was if you noticed a change in AI aggression compared to the earlier versions of the game. Any thoughts?

[sporadicsmiles]

It is not bad luck, as most people point out it is what the AI is programmed to do. They will come and attack more in the last part of the game (does not have to be 10 minutes, it is variable) if they can get something from it. Say they are drawing, or 1-0 down. 

This is something you should expect, because it makes sense that a team will try to go for a win. But it does not necessitate a huge change, as @FrazT says. Really you just need to dial yourself back a bit, and what this usually means is identify the roles/duties that are most risky in your team and make them less risky. As an example I will always lower the mentality of my attacking full backs. Why? Because I want them to be in better positions defensively to deal with the opposition, rather than scoring goals. 

There are other things I will tend to do too, more situationally. For example if a team is getting the ball quickly from defence to attack, I will abandon any counter press and drop my LOE back a notch. Why? No point to a high press if the ball is in the opposition end of the pitch for 5 seconds, it just exposes my defence. Why a lower LOE? Make my team more compact. 

Or perhaps they are launching long balls over your defence. Drop the defensive line back a notch. Deny them the space (if doing this I also consider if I need to more the LOE so as not to spread my team too much).

These are all reactive measures. You can also be proactive. If you notice a team is suddenly attacking you hard it means they are leaving space behind. So use that space yourself and play some devastating counter attacking. That means abandoning any play from defence instructions, perhaps more direct passing, using the counter TI. When you get the ball, you want to get it forward as quickly as possible. I had a game last night where my team just did this to perfection and a tricky 1-0 lead became a comfortable 3-0 lead. 

The conclusion is that there is plenty of things you can change, and they do not have to be major, you just have to think about how you can tighten things up.

[sporadicsmiles]

2 minutes ago, Prej said:

What I meant with my question was if you noticed a change in AI aggression compared to the earlier versions of the game. Any thoughts?

AI has been doing this for as long as I can remember. 

[Prej]

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

AI has been doing this for as long as I can remember. 

Sure, but my impression is that in FM21it's even more aggressive than before. I've always been wary of the AI going into overdrive when losing a match, but this year it seems even more extreme IMO.

[sporadicsmiles]

15 minutes ago, Prej said:

Sure, but my impression is that in FM21it's even more aggressive than before. I've always been wary of the AI going into overdrive when losing a match, but this year it seems even more extreme IMO.

Honestly I have not noticed this in particular in FM21

[Mars_Blackmon]

15 minutes ago, Prej said:

Sure, but my impression is that in FM21it's even more aggressive than before. I've always been wary of the AI going into overdrive when losing a match, but this year it seems even more extreme IMO.

Probably just a result of a better match engine.

[FrazT]

1 hour ago, Prej said:

Thanks for all your responses!

What I meant with my question was if you noticed a change in AI aggression compared to the earlier versions of the game. Any thoughts?

I havent specifically noticed any major changes, but I am always expecting the AI to adapt so perhaps not being surprised when they do change

[gothenburg83]

I've dropped 10 points from winning positions late in games which I am putting down to me not being proactive enough to counter what the AI is doing. 

I would take it as a positive that the AI reacts to losing and forces us to think a bit more about how to win games....just my personal view!

[Prej]

51 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Probably just a result of a better match engine.

 

Yes, I'd side with this. This year's match engine is a godsend, and a smarter AI is just something WE need to adapt to now. I was just surprised how much better the AI seems to handle the tactical approach in the final stages of a match. Hats off to SI for that.

[kiwityke]

2 hours ago, gothenburg83 said:

I've dropped 10 points from winning positions late in games which I am putting down to me not being proactive enough to counter what the AI is doing. 

I would take it as a positive that the AI reacts to losing and forces us to think a bit more about how to win games....just my personal view!

I literally just had a run of 8 games where I drew 7 and lost 1 with the AI scoring late goals in 7 of those and the 8th finished 0-0!

[gothenburg83]

12 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

I literally just had a run of 8 games where I drew 7 and lost 1 with the AI scoring late goals in 7 of those and the 8th finished 0-0!

I know a common response on here is "it's your tactics" but I think in this case, it will be your tactics 

[kiwityke]

45 minutes ago, gothenburg83 said:

I know a common response on here is "it's your tactics" but I think in this case, it will be your tactics 

Here's the thing I did all sorts to try and end the run I changed tactics, I didn't change tactics. I changed formation and roles. Made subs didnt make subs...one game my keeper honestly came flying out for a cross and just missed the ball as I watched wide eyed fist clenched teeth grinding to dust as the ball sailed into the empty goal!

The 0-0 draw we had over 4xg I swear their keeper was superhuman!

I often find when I get into these kinds of runs I start second guessing myself and make maybe too many changes. 

[gothenburg83]

5 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

Here's the thing I did all sorts to try and end the run I changed tactics, I didn't change tactics. I changed formation and roles. Made subs didnt make subs...one game my keeper honestly came flying out for a cross and just missed the ball as I watched wide eyed fist clenched teeth grinding to dust as the ball sailed into the empty goal!

The 0-0 draw we had over 4xg I swear their keeper was superhuman!

I often find when I get into these kinds of runs I start second guessing myself and make maybe too many changes. 

Know what you mean. I wonder if some of it is better dealt with via shouts and minor tactical changes than radical changes.

I was 2-0 up in my last match, Ross County scored on the 79th minute and I then managed to grab a 3rd quickly after to make sure of the win. The only change I made was to turn my DMC into an Anchor Man rather than a Half-Back. Also used the "demand more" shout which seemed to work....

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, gothenburg83 said:

Know what you mean. I wonder if some of it is better dealt with via shouts and minor tactical changes than radical changes.

I was 2-0 up in my last match, Ross County scored on the 79th minute and I then managed to grab a 3rd quickly after to make sure of the win. The only change I made was to turn my DMC into an Anchor Man rather than a Half-Back. Also used the "demand more" shout which seemed to work....

This. Because the more radical changes you make, the more tactical familiarity you lose unless of course you switch to a defensive tactic that you’ve been training. Playing defensive but doing it in a awkward or competent way can’t be good.

[Tony Wright 747]

5 hours ago, gothenburg83 said:

I've dropped 10 points from winning positions late in games which I am putting down to me not being proactive enough to counter what the AI is doing. 

I would take it as a positive that the AI reacts to losing and forces us to think a bit more about how to win games....just my personal view!

Ralph is doing the same at Southampton