Question on post game progression reports

[passenger58]

Hi, 

I have a question on the post-game progression reports.

I get that when a young player has a good game, their progression bar goes up each time. Once the bar is filled they 'level up'. 

So what does this leveling up actually do? Will I see an attribute change? Increase in the star rating? Rise in value? Or is it something not so visible? 

See my WBL, Ilias C, for example.

Edited December 7, 2020 by passenger58
Typo

[ElliottMS]

I keep track of players key attributes for their position/role.

I update them every 2 game months, generally, but also any training report or where they level up after the game, I also update it.

In doing that i can tell you the attributes definitely increase, sometimes just one, sometimes several at once.

Its one of my favourite things about the game to be honest - seeing a player grow!

 

Edit also to say I've noticed in this version even some players aged 30+ are improving their attributes on good performances sometimes. My 30+ keeper has grown considerably in my current save. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by ElliottMS

[passenger58]

24 minutes ago, ElliottMS said:

I keep track of players key attributes for their position/role.

I update them every 2 game months, generally, but also any training report or where they level up after the game, I also update it.

In doing that i can tell you the attributes definitely increase, sometimes just one, sometimes several at once.

Its one of my favourite things about the game to be honest - seeing a player grow!

 

Edit also to say I've noticed in this version even some players aged 30+ are improving their attributes on good performances sometimes. My 30+ keeper has grown considerably in my current save. 

Thanks, mate. Appreciate the info. 

[StephenCronin]

1 hour ago, passenger58 said:

So what does this leveling up actually do? Will I see an attribute change? Increase in the star rating? Rise in value? Or is it something not so visible?

As @ElliottMS said, the players attributes will increase. Behind the scenes, the player's CA (Current Ability) will also increase. This may not be exact, but from what I've seen, in the vast majority of cases an increment delivers around 1 to 6 attribute points with CA increasing by 5. Occasionally you will get a big update, with around 7 to 12 attribute points and CA increasing by 10. I once even saw a massive increase where CA went up by 15, but that's really really rare.

Note: You can't actually see the real CA and PA in the game, but that's what's happening behind the scenes.

I tend to think of attribute increases as costing some of the player's potential growth. For example, if the player has a CA (current ability) of 132 and a PA (potential ability) of 156, then the potential growth that's left to them is 24. When they get a normal increment in attribute points, it 'costs' them 5 points of this available potential growth and they now only have 19 more (eg 4 more increments) until they max out.

It's interesting to note that attribute increases from mentoring don't seem to cost anything (their CA stays the same). 

[passenger58]

Thanks @StephenCronin

[Marc Vaughan]

Just to clarify something not all attributes are tied to ability in FMM (they are in full-fat FM on PC) - some are independent of ability, the ones which aren't are generally personality or physical.

For instance I'm a firm believer that you can run very fast and be an awful footballer, so you can have 1 CA and 20 pace in the game.

Similarly you perform fantastically under pressure but be awful (so it really doesn't matter) ... so 20 pressure, 1 CA.

(if anyone is really interested in this side of things then by all means PM me, but I won't go uber geeky here as I try not to reveal too much of the games innards generally in case it takes away from anyones enjoyment of things)

[sjwegmann]

Will attributes randomly decline as well?

[casperzwaart100]

11 minutes ago, sjwegmann said:

Will attributes randomly decline as well?

Yes, especially old players tend to get worse stats over time. I have even seen some young players' stats declining. But most of the times it happens if someone is either old, or playing almost never

[Marc Vaughan]

2 hours ago, sjwegmann said:

Will attributes randomly decline as well?

Players attributes will decline for various reasons:

1. Bad injuries, a bad injury can set a player back at ANY age - if you spend six months out because of a broken leg there is a reasonable chance (although it's not certain) that you might not be quite the player you were before initially ... often players can get back up to speed, but if they're old this is obviously more difficult.
2. Age, older players will decline over time. How much and when depends on a LOT of factors, professional players who train hard will generally hold up better than others, but one of the largest factors is whether they're playing competitively or not.
3. General variance - during a season it is possible that a players attributes might ramp and lower slightly due to differences in how they are training, tiredness, confidence or general form on the pitch. Some players are more reliable and 'stationary' in this regard than others who might be very fickle. Generally speaking younger players show more signs of variance than older ones.

[JohnyBruce]

I have a small question, is this a bug?

How can you have a cup final (at home)

[Marc Vaughan]

3 hours ago, JohnyBruce said:

I have a small question, is this a bug?

How can you have a cup final (at home)

Being perfectly honest you'd be far better off asking one of the rule group people about that than myself - I'm far from an expert on competition rules outside of England ... that being said glancing at the cups wikipedia page it appears that the final is played at club stadiums rather than a national one so I presume its feasible?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_del_Rey

[JohnyBruce]

1 hour ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Being perfectly honest you'd be far better off asking one of the rule group people about that than myself - I'm far from an expert on competition rules outside of England ... that being said glancing at the cups wikipedia page it appears that the final is played at club stadiums rather than a national one so I presume its feasible?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_del_Rey

Ah ok, gotcha!

Thanks Marc, yes maybe they choose the stadium for the final before the competition starts like they do in the champions league, I should have thought of that 👍🏼

[passenger58]

One more question about player progression in matches. 

Does the number of minutes a player spends on the pitch in a particular game make a difference to their progression? 

For example, if I bring a player on at half time and he gets a 7 match rating, would he benefit any more from that appearance than if I'd bought him on with 5 minutes to go and he'd got a 7? 

So same appearances, same rating, but different times? How does that all work?

Edited December 10, 2020 by passenger58

[Amigooo]

19 hours ago, JohnyBruce said:

Ah ok, gotcha!

Thanks Marc, yes maybe they choose the stadium for the final before the competition starts like they do in the champions league, I should have thought of that 👍🏼

Still should have said "game will be played at Wanda Metropolitano" 

This way makes you think that every copa del rey final will be played with one finalist at home which is not or should not be the case

[Marc Vaughan]

45 minutes ago, passenger58 said:

Does the number of minutes a player spends on the pitch in a particular game make a difference to their progression? 
For example, if I bring a player on at half time and he gets a 7 match rating, would he benefit any more from that appearance than if I'd bought him on with 5 minutes to go and he'd got a 7? 
So same appearances, same rating, but different times? How does that all work?

Yes the amount of playing time might have an effect on a players development - however it depends somewhat on their age, personality and performance.

Young fringe players benefit hugely from playing time and will get a boost from any appearances even just for a few minutes as they get accustomed to playing during the atmosphere of a competitive game. 

It might be that theoretical 17 year old finds it easier just coming on for a cameo of 5 minutes initially because he isn't that confident a person, it might be that he is a cocky individual and a longer period helps him more because he can take the pressure (so long as he gets a high rating, if he plays badly it might not go so well?).

In general there are a lot of factors which affect such things and its not a 'one size fits all' approach.

Older players are less likely to learn coming off the bench and require larger periods of play to grow generally.

Finally you might notice that young inexperienced players will also gain experience (depending on personality and attentiveness) from just being part of the match day squad, just sitting on the bench and watching with the 'grown ups' might be enough for some players to progress a little more.

PS - It's also worth mentioning (in case people didn't know) that different roles/positions grow at different rates at the same age - so goalkeepers and central defenders tend to mature slowest in the game and can still be considered young aged 23-24 and be expected to still be gaining experience and improving, strikers will grow most at a slightly younger age and are expected to be making an impact before then ... similarly some positions are more likely to be resilient against aging than others, thus you're more likely to see a 36 year old goalkeeper than you are a 36 year old striker.

[passenger58]

2 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Yes the amount of playing time might have an effect on a players development - however it depends somewhat on their age, personality and performance.

Young fringe players benefit hugely from playing time and will get a boost from any appearances even just for a few minutes as they get accustomed to playing during the atmosphere of a competitive game. 

It might be that theoretical 17 year old finds it easier just coming on for a cameo of 5 minutes initially because he isn't that confident a person, it might be that he is a cocky individual and a longer period helps him more because he can take the pressure (so long as he gets a high rating, if he plays badly it might not go so well?).

In general there are a lot of factors which affect such things and its not a 'one size fits all' approach.

Older players are less likely to learn coming off the bench and require larger periods of play to grow generally.

Finally you might notice that young inexperienced players will also gain experience (depending on personality and attentiveness) from just being part of the match day squad, just sitting on the bench and watching with the 'grown ups' might be enough for some players to progress a little more.

PS - It's also worth mentioning (in case people didn't know) that different roles/positions grow at different rates at the same age - so goalkeepers and central defenders tend to mature slowest in the game and can still be considered young aged 23-24 and be expected to still be gaining experience and improving, strikers will grow most at a slightly younger age and are expected to be making an impact before then ... similarly some positions are more likely to be resilient against aging than others, thus you're more likely to see a 36 year old goalkeeper than you are a 36 year old striker.

Thanks for the detailed response @Marc Vaughan