Am I losing the plot?

[OLIPEREZ]

Is anybody else having pretty sudden issues with their performances on the game? Particularly tactically.

I’m a very experienced player and know the game inside out. On two previous FM21 saves I’ve won the Libetadores with Rosario Central and Serie A with Catania within 5 seasons. Had great success on previous versions of the game and tactically astute. I consider myself to be very good at the game.

Given the recent ME/ratings issues, I started a save with Barca for a bit of fun/to see if better players made a difference to the tactical issues.

I can’t string 2 wins together, I’ve got players going AWOL left, right and centre and for the first time ever on FM - my job is precarious. I’m doing nothing outlandish whatsoever tactically and the issues remain even when using variants of tactics which have been successful for me for years.

It’s driving me up the wall. 

Is anyone else having similar issues?

 

[FrazT]

This is not a bug report so I will move it to GD to start with although you may have to end up asking in the Tactics forum.

[CARRERA]

I don’t see any issues having good results and competing for Titels with top teams like Barca. 

as I obviously don’t know your history of playing i could just assume you usually go for the weaker side and build them up to success as you did with Catania. Playing with established top teams like Barca may demand other tactical settings then uprising stars do due to their overall standing. 

best would properbly be to simply share your tactics

Also it would be important to know where actually struggle. Is it scoring goals? Do you concede too much? 

Edited January 19, 2021 by CARRERA

[FrazT]

Did you start at Barcelona with any reputation, as this may be the issue with the player discipline?

[OLIPEREZ]

6 hours ago, CARRERA said:

I don’t see any issues having good results and competing for Titels with top teams like Barca. 

as I obviously don’t know your history of playing i could just assume you usually go for the weaker side and build them up to success as you did with Catania. Playing with established top teams like Barca may demand other tactical settings then uprising stars do due to their overall standing. 

best would properbly be to simply share your tactics

Also it would be important to know where actually struggle. Is it scoring goals? Do you concede too much? 

Yes, that is usually the way I go; typically long saves along those lines. 

May well be something due to reputation, but I am trying to play in a traditional Barca way in a system which suits the players. (4123, Postive, shorter passing, high block, expressive etc). It’s nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever and suits the individual and collective skillset(s). Would be very similar to how most experienced players would set up with Barca. Just want to play good football.

Struggling with putting the ball in the net, consistently underperforming to bottom half sides (not winning those games), general lack of control on the ball. Seems the only guaranteed way to score is to have an AF and Pass Into Space on as per usual. Obviously not the way I want to play. 

Driving me up the wall.

[CARRERA]

21 minutes ago, OLIPEREZ said:

Struggling with putting the ball in the net, consistently underperforming to bottom half sides (not winning those games), general lack of control on the ball.

Do you create enough (quality) chances and it’s just the conversion rate which is bad or do you struggle creating high quality goal scoring opportunities in general? Maybe some insights on your avg xG to avg shots would be interesting.

Also did you create enough overlapping partnerships to further increase your player movement? Especially in central attack and on the flanks? 

 

[OLIPEREZ]

2 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Do you create enough (quality) chances and it’s just the conversion rate which is bad or do you struggle creating high quality goal scoring opportunities in general? Maybe some insights on your avg xG to avg shots would be interesting.

Also did you create enough overlapping partnerships to further increase your player movement? Especially in central attack and on the flanks? 

 

I’m not at my computer at the moment but I’ll ping over some screenshots later.

The attached is loosely how I’m playing. Keep tweaking bits but it’s the general idea. Overlaps on where/when appropriate. Messi is trequartista and drops deep. Positive mentality, shorter passing, standard tempo, high line and press.

 

[kevhamster]

If Messi is playing in a way which causes him to drop deep, wouldn't it make sense to have one, or possibly even both of the wingers as an inside forward? 

[OLIPEREZ]

1 minute ago, kevhamster said:

If Messi is playing in a way which causes him to drop deep, wouldn't it make sense to have one, or possibly even both of the wingers as an inside forward? 

That’s what I had initially matey and couldn’t get it to work for the life of me. Doing that has always been a favourite front 3 of mine on FM, but not having a lot of success doing it on this version for some reason. 

Changed them to IWs and both positions perform better. Particularly so on left. Might try IF on the right again.

Can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t click. Sending me insane. 😄

[cris182]

1 minute ago, OLIPEREZ said:

That’s what I had initially matey and couldn’t get it to work for the life of me. Doing that has always been a favourite front 3 of mine on FM, but not having a lot of success doing it on this version for some reason. 

Changed them to IWs and both positions perform better. Particularly so on left. Might try IF on the right again.

Can’t see any reason why it wouldn’t click. Sending me insane. 😄

 Sounds like real life, Often see things that should work but just don't 

[zyfon5]

38 minutes ago, OLIPEREZ said:

I’m not at my computer at the moment but I’ll ping over some screenshots later.

The attached is loosely how I’m playing. Keep tweaking bits but it’s the general idea. Overlaps on where/when appropriate. Messi is trequartista and drops deep. Positive mentality, shorter passing, standard tempo, high line and press.

 

Trequartista do a lot of sideway movements compared to a F9 which sole focus is to become a CAM. I also do not like the two CWB with IW combination the CWB will just end up occupying the same space as the IW coupled that with the mezzala you will end up with a lot of players at the wide areas and no one attacking the middle. Playing with two CWB is also very risky itself. Mind showing your full tactic?

[OLIPEREZ]

3 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Trequartista do a lot of sideway movements compared to a F9 which sole focus is to become a CAM. I also do not like the two CWB with IW combination the CWB will just end up occupying the same space as the IW coupled that with the mezzala you will end up with a lot of players at the wide areas and no one attacking the middle. Playing with two CWB is also very risky itself. Mind showing your full tactic?

Not at my computer at the moment buddy, but I’ll fire over later.

Did start with a F9 but couldn’t get him firing. Him being Messi. Barely scored or assisted so changed to a trequartista. There was plenty of movement around him but barely contributed as at F9. Found trequartista to be far more effective for him. Do prefer F9 myself but taking what I can at the moment. 😄

CWB wise - I do actually have the left one as a WB on support now.

Screenshot attached has changed slightly but it’s the general idea. Namely on IW (R) and WB (R) roles. Player instructions pretty straightforward and nothing out of the ordinary. No OI on. 

[OLIPEREZ]

19 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Trequartista do a lot of sideway movements compared to a F9 which sole focus is to become a CAM. I also do not like the two CWB with IW combination the CWB will just end up occupying the same space as the IW coupled that with the mezzala you will end up with a lot of players at the wide areas and no one attacking the middle. Playing with two CWB is also very risky itself. Mind showing your full tactic?

Regarding the lot of players in wide areas too - it’s been an intention to create a overload. Particularly on the left obviously. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by OLIPEREZ

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, OLIPEREZ said:

Regarding the lot of players in wide areas too - it’s been an intention to create a overload. Particularly on the left obviously. 

If your intention is to create overloads on the left and drawing the opposition that way, is your AMR ever in a position to capitalise on the space that it creates for him?

[OLIPEREZ]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

If your intention is to create overloads on the left and drawing the opposition that way, is your AMR ever in a position to capitalise on the space that it creates for him?

Yes, I typically use Griezmann there. Brilliant off the ball (18), anticipation (15) and decisions (15).

Starting to realise that this is probably due to my reputation more than anything. There may be a tweak or two required tactically but certain that it shouldn’t be underperforming as much as it is. Didn’t even get through the weakest CL group in history. My computer’s on the verge of going out the window.

[sporadicsmiles]

7 hours ago, OLIPEREZ said:

Starting to realise that this is probably due to my reputation more than anything

This can be a right pain indeed, for testing tactics and messing around just go for the highest rep you can so you basically eliminate this. If it is a throw away save just to test things out that is fine to do, however you would normally play.

Just a note on the tactic you posted above. You have so many TIs, and this can sometimes cause confusion if you do not have a very clear reason for having them, because you may not see any knock on influences they will have on the rest of your play.

In particular for yourself, you are overloading the left to create space for the players on the right. However you are also asking for an overlap on the right. This is going to ask your right winger to delay getting forward to allow the WB to overlap him, which means he will often not be in a goal scoring position because his mentally is somewhat lower with this instruction. I'd remove this instruction at least and see what happens. Because this is basically killing the overload you are creating. I'd also consider potentially shifting the DLP to something like a BBM or CM(A) in games when you dominate the game, to add another runner on that side of the field. You can shift the playmaker backwards and if you need to bring the right WB inside as an IWB(S). 

Just a couple of ideas for you.

[OLIPEREZ]

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

This can be a right pain indeed, for testing tactics and messing around just go for the highest rep you can so you basically eliminate this. If it is a throw away save just to test things out that is fine to do, however you would normally play.

Just a note on the tactic you posted above. You have so many TIs, and this can sometimes cause confusion if you do not have a very clear reason for having them, because you may not see any knock on influences they will have on the rest of your play.

In particular for yourself, you are overloading the left to create space for the players on the right. However you are also asking for an overlap on the right. This is going to ask your right winger to delay getting forward to allow the WB to overlap him, which means he will often not be in a goal scoring position because his mentally is somewhat lower with this instruction. I'd remove this instruction at least and see what happens. Because this is basically killing the overload you are creating. I'd also consider potentially shifting the DLP to something like a BBM or CM(A) in games when you dominate the game, to add another runner on that side of the field. You can shift the playmaker backwards and if you need to bring the right WB inside as an IWB(S). 

Just a couple of ideas for you.

Thanks buddy. Some good points there. Will certainly give those a go.

[zyfon5]

14 hours ago, OLIPEREZ said:

Yes, I typically use Griezmann there. Brilliant off the ball (18), anticipation (15) and decisions (15).

Starting to realise that this is probably due to my reputation more than anything. There may be a tweak or two required tactically but certain that it shouldn’t be underperforming as much as it is. Didn’t even get through the weakest CL group in history. My computer’s on the verge of going out the window.

Then just play an inside forward there. Griezmaan attributes are also more suited to be an inside forward rather than a winger. Use the left side to create an overload to get the inside forward on the right into dangerous position.

[Jervaj]

From a quick glance, I dont know if shorter passing is a good idea there. Your attacking play seems to be very focused in the wings on already wide leaning formation by default (due to shape and mentality) while there is not really anyone running in the centre. Pair this with attack duties in the 3 players on top while everyone behind is support (and one of them been more of a holding/covering role) and it means your players are likely to be far apart. I feel like shorter passing may be reducing reducing a lot the options your players have.

Also, why the TIs to look for the overload on the right and work ball in the box? Not a critic, just asking what do you want/plan to achieve with them?