Manchester City Pep Guardiola Analysis and Tactical Recreation

[Juego de Posicion]

Having a play around with your latest version and one tweak I'd suggest to make it even more realistic is moving the DLP (S) to the CM position and adding the instructions: "Close Down More"; "Tight Marking" and "Tackle Harder". Seems to create more situations where the team defends as a 4-4-2/4-2-3-1, as opposed to having a single DM player between defence and midfield, which doesn't seem to be the way Pep defends these days (I think because the passing lanes either side of a DM can get exploited so perhaps better/more efficient to have 2 compact lines of 4).

Also, I'd suggest the PPM of "Stays Back At All Times" for the IWB(S) and DLP(S) as sometimes they can be too aggressive with their movements in possession (I like them as a stable "base" behind the attacking 6) and this PPM can mitigate that, without taking away from the reasons why those roles are more suitable than others in the first place. For example, I wouldn't take away "Overlap Left" as this would increase the mentality of the IW(S)  on the left, and probably cause this player to drift centrally too early/earlier - while a DLP on "Defend" would cause the DLP to not close down/mark players in front of the midfield when out of possession (when required). So I find simply that the "Stays Back At All Times" PPM for DLP(S) and IWB(S) is the best adjustment.

I'm also potentially looking at adding "Tight Marking" to the backline, but this one I am still undecided on.

The rest of the tactic I think is really pretty good and a solid effort in terms of realistically recreating Pep's positional play tactical philosophy.

Thanks for your ongoing efforts and analysis. 

[Cult of Football Manager]

8 hours ago, Juego de Posicion said:

Having a play around with your latest version and one tweak I'd suggest to make it even more realistic is moving the DLP (S) to the CM position and adding the instructions: "Close Down More"; "Tight Marking" and "Tackle Harder". Seems to create more situations where the team defends as a 4-4-2/4-2-3-1, as opposed to having a single DM player between defence and midfield, which doesn't seem to be the way Pep defends these days (I think because the passing lanes either side of a DM can get exploited so perhaps better/more efficient to have 2 compact lines of 4).

Also, I'd suggest the PPM of "Stays Back At All Times" for the IWB(S) and DLP(S) as sometimes they can be too aggressive with their movements in possession (I like them as a stable "base" behind the attacking 6) and this PPM can mitigate that, without taking away from the reasons why those roles are more suitable than others in the first place. For example, I wouldn't take away "Overlap Left" as this would increase the mentality of the IW(S)  on the left, and probably cause this player to drift centrally too early/earlier - while a DLP on "Defend" would cause the DLP to not close down/mark players in front of the midfield when out of possession (when required). So I find simply that the "Stays Back At All Times" PPM for DLP(S) and IWB(S) is the best adjustment.

I'm also potentially looking at adding "Tight Marking" to the backline, but this one I am still undecided on.

The rest of the tactic I think is really pretty good and a solid effort in terms of realistically recreating Pep's positional play tactical philosophy.

Thanks for your ongoing efforts and analysis. 

Thank you mate for the kind words! I'm quite happy with the current version with the DLF-A as the striker it can play some brilliant football on a regular basis with a top side.

Yes I mean feel free to tweak like I mentioned before I wasn't trying to do the out of possession as specific as in possession. I will probably end the in possession tweaks now with just uploading different tweaks of the current tactic to match different "Pep" style such as a current 2017-2019 version, then a 2020-2021 version and lastly a Barcelona version from 2008-2011 which I think would probably have more success with a WB-A or CWB-A on the right side to replicate alves!

I like the thoughts about traits I never really attempt to add too many as once they've learned one it's VERY hard for me to get them to unlearn it! Traits probably could add a lot to it!

 

Thank you again for your thoughts and comments !

[Cult of Football Manager]

Real Sociedad Season 2:

League Winners

Cup Winners

Knocked out by Liverpool in Champions League

 

League Table:

 

 

 

Average Possession:

 

 

 

XG For:

 

 

 

XG Against:

 

 

 

Clear Cut Chances:

 

 

 

The title race was very close and we were absolutely brilliant then a terrible January saw us lose to Real Madrid away, In a cup & Then also play Liverpool twice. This threw our form and ruined our morale making us drop points quite a few times in this period and if I would have handled it better I wonder if we would have had a better chance in the CL and got over 100 points maybe even undefeated!

[MrGreen555]

Which version is this you're using? Love the idea!

19 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Real Sociedad Season 2:

League Winners

Cup Winners

Knocked out by Liverpool in Champions League

 

League Table:

 

 

 

Average Possession:

 

 

 

XG For:

 

 

 

XG Against:

 

 

 

Clear Cut Chances:

 

 

 

The title race was very close and we were absolutely brilliant then a terrible January saw us lose to Real Madrid away, In a cup & Then also play Liverpool twice. This threw our form and ruined our morale making us drop points quite a few times in this period and if I would have handled it better I wonder if we would have had a better chance in the CL and got over 100 points maybe even undefeated!

 

[Cult of Football Manager]

2 hours ago, MrGreen555 said:

Which version is this you're using? Love the idea!

 

That's the Poacher version and Pass into space the latest one. I use the defensive tactic if 1 goal up with 10 minutes to go and as an emergency to get a goal switch to the attacking tactic for the last 10 mins on Very Attacking to get a goal

[Djeon36]

Just wondering what are some good player traits for this tactic? I've been thinking and it seems like a good idea for wingers to have move into channels trait. I'm not a super expert on this so I can be wrong but please do let me know what are some good player traits for this tactical style. 

[Mike_Cardinal]

I've made a couple of tweaks to my setup with real success recently, partly inspired by Ozil-to-the-Arsenal's classic threads, including the use of Support duties for 'Very Fluid' total football.

I also wanted to really minimise TIs, and come up with something like a universal tactic for this style of play - I tested it on FM20, but I think it could be applied to any of the recent games.

Positive

Much Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence

More Urgent

SKd

IWBs - CDd - CDd - IWBs

MEZs - CMd - MEZs

IWs - F9s - IWs

The IWs have PIs to 'Stay Wider' and 'Get Further Forward'. And that's it!

Here's why I think it works so well:

The full backs, Mezzalas and wingers are on Positive mentality, the False Nine is on Balanced, and the rest on Cautious.

I experimented with an Attack duty up front, but I do think the False Nine is perfect for this style of play. The key was playing on Positive team mentality or higher - the role is too passive otherwise, being Cautious with a Balanced team mentality.

With a higher team mentality, I found my IWBs were getting too far forward with Underlaps - this creates an Attacking mentality, and we were being exposed on the counter.

It also led to them sitting on top of the Mezzalas, which is completely contradictory to positional play principles. 

I took off the Underlaps, and also found great success in moving the DM to CM, which forces the Mezzalas wider. They make runs outside more often, they press the flanks better to stop counters, and there is generally excellent spacing and interplay between them, the IWBs and IWs - I cannot recommend testing this out strongly enough.

Without a DM, I found the Support duty worked well for the Mezzalas, rather than Attack. They helped out in defence more, so we weren't exposed in the middle, and as I increased Mentality to Positive, they still got forward plenty. I didn't want them shooting constantly on Very Attacking mentality.

The CMd also seems to have the effect of pushing the defensive line higher, indirectly, and works really nicely supporting attacks in a line of '3' with the IWBs in possession, whilst dropping deep as a holding midfielder out of possession. I often use a 'Tighter Marking' OI on opposition AMs, which works well. 

The IWs also benefit from a Positive mentality, as the lack of Underlaps means they get forward a little more, and form a proper front three with the False Nine - I still think this role is the best way to give Pep-style width in buildup, before attacking the box at the right moment.

The only essential team instruction is Much Shorter Passing, genuinely. Shorter Passing gives me around 62% possession on average, Much Shorter Passing gives around 68% - it seems to prevent the CBs from ever kicking it long on Positive, and everyone focuses on neat, simple passes all over the pitch. 

We naturally work the ball into the box - the IWBs cross less often by default, and we don't use Wingers, who Cross More Often. We are patient, but always building towards creating chances.

This means the attacking play is varied without being over complicated and players have the freedom to score all types of goal, without being given too many instructions, or forcing the ball to a designated playmaker. Again, try it out, and I think you'll see how a very simple approach can give really effective patterns of play, as players decide how to best unlock the defence, using the overloads created by a 235.

A truer Pep recreation may be achieved with more tinkering, but in terms of results on FM, this has given me the best results with a 235 by far, as well as some seriously beautiful football.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Mike_Cardinal

[Cult of Football Manager]

4 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

Just wondering what are some good player traits for this tactic? I've been thinking and it seems like a good idea for wingers to have move into channels trait. I'm not a super expert on this so I can be wrong but please do let me know what are some good player traits for this tactical style. 

Good question. DLP dictates tempo would probably help for those games where teams are sat back and the tempo and passing isn't quick enough and he plays at his own pace therefore helping the team? 

Moves into channels would be interesting to see the difference between a wide player having it, then also the CM's having it.

Hugs touchline is that still one? If so I would put all 4 of my wingers on that and I would probably start with that and the DLP with dictates tempo and start from there. The IWB you could put get forward whenever possible if you're a top side and find yourself drawing a lot going into the last 20 minutes. It makes the IWB - A more aggressive with his movement and the IWB-S L more likely to overlap if the opposition have set up a camp in their own box rather then being apart of the retain unit across the back with the other CB's.

DLF-A with break offside trap might be good for recreation and results.

[Jungztar]

1 hour ago, Mike_Cardinal said:

I've made a couple of tweaks to my setup with real success recently, partly inspired by Ozil-to-the-Arsenal's classic threads, including the use of Support duties for 'Very Fluid' total football.

I also wanted to really minimise TIs, and come up with something like a universal tactic for this style of play - I tested it on FM20, but I think it could be applied to any of the recent games.

Positive

Much Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence

More Urgent

SKd

IWBs - CDd - CDd - IWBs

MEZs - CMd - MEZs

IWs - F9s - IWs

The IWs have PIs to 'Stay Wider' and 'Get Further Forward'. And that's it!

Here's why I think it works so well:

The full backs, Mezzalas and wingers are on Positive mentality, the False Nine is on Balanced, and the rest on Cautious.

I experimented with an Attack duty up front, but I do think the False Nine is perfect for this style of play. The key was playing on Positive team mentality or higher - the role is too passive otherwise, being Cautious with a Balanced team mentality.

With a higher team mentality, I found my IWBs were getting too far forward with Underlaps - this creates an Attacking mentality, and we were being exposed on the counter.

It also led to them sitting on top of the Mezzalas, which is completely contradictory to positional play principles. 

I took off the Underlaps, and also found great success in moving the DM to CM, which forces the Mezzalas wider. They make runs outside more often, they press the flanks better to stop counters, and there is generally excellent spacing and interplay between them, the IWBs and IWs - I cannot recommend testing this out strongly enough.

Without a DM, I found the Support duty worked well for the Mezzalas, rather than Attack. They helped out in defence more, so we weren't exposed in the middle, and as I increased Mentality to Positive, they still got forward plenty. I didn't want them shooting constantly on Very Attacking mentality.

The CMd also seems to have the effect of pushing the defensive line higher, indirectly, and works really nicely supporting attacks in a line of '3' with the IWBs in possession, whilst dropping deep as a holding midfielder out of possession. I often use a 'Tighter Marking' OI on opposition AMs, which works well. 

The IWs also benefit from a Positive mentality, as the lack of Underlaps means they get forward a little more, and form a proper front three with the False Nine - I still think this role is the best way to give Pep-style width in buildup, before attacking the box at the right moment.

The only essential team instruction is Much Shorter Passing, genuinely. Shorter Passing gives me around 62% possession on average, Much Shorter Passing gives around 68% - it seems to prevent the CBs from ever kicking it long on Positive, and everyone focuses on neat, simple passes all over the pitch. 

We naturally work the ball into the box - the IWBs cross less often by default, and we don't use Wingers, who Cross More Often. We are patient, but always building towards creating chances.

This means the attacking play is varied without being over complicated and players have the freedom to score all types of goal, without being given too many instructions, or forcing the ball to a designated playmaker. Again, try it out, and I think you'll see how a very simple approach can give really effective patterns of play, as players decide how to best unlock the defence, using the overloads created by a 235.

A truer Pep recreation may be achieved with more tinkering, but in terms of results on FM, this has given me the best results with a 235 by far, as well as some seriously beautiful football.

I really like the thoughts behind the tactic and the "clean" setup with few TIs and well thought roles. I will test it with my Roma save! How about chance creation and goals? I struggle with getting Roma to score more - normally only winning 1-0 or drawing against better teams - so could be worried just ending up passing the ball around without scoring

[Giacch]

Impressive with your 3 tactics, i won the ligue 1 with Nîmes with 90 point at first season. Very good Job thx.

 

[Cult of Football Manager]

48 minutes ago, Giacch said:

Impressive with your 3 tactics, i won the ligue 1 with Nîmes with 90 point at first season. Very good Job thx.

 

Really? That's Brilliant ! So happy to hear that! That's an incredible achievement and even better then mine!! Congratulations on that and i'm glad the tactic was able to provide you with that success that early on!

[ivanbox]

@Cult of Football Manager Amazing work! Are you considering recreating Pep`s Barcelona 2010-2011 tactic?

[Cult of Football Manager]

2 hours ago, ivanbox said:

@Cult of Football Manager Amazing work! Are you considering recreating Pep`s Barcelona 2010-2011 tactic?

Thanks mate I appreciate it!

I did straight away after but I thought I'd do something a little different so I've been spending time on another recreation. I don't know if I'll have time to post it on here in written format will more then likely be a video on Youtube. 

 

I might save Pep's Barca for FM 22 

[shaneomac]

On 13/05/2021 at 16:50, Ripamon said:

Following on from my comment on the previous page, where I uploaded various pkms of my beloved Schalke carrying out Guardiolae-esque principles of play (see here) I felt it was time for a new challenge. A new environment in a new country. A country where there existed a heavyweight which needed to be toppled, whose financial strength could never be matched. It was time of course, to head to the so-called farmer's league to dethrone the mighty PSG. 

The year was 2022. The team, Lyon. I wasted no time in applying my tactics and buying a couple of players who could carry out my vision for the team. 

 

These are the results of the two seasons I've managed so far. In the first, I also reached the Europa league final but got pumped 5-0 by Arsenal (lol). In my second, as you see here, we managed to outdo our previous record, scoring a mighty 122 goals and only conceding 19. The title race went down to the final day, where a 9-0 win over Strasbourg sealed my 2nd title in a row. PSG were well and truly dethroned. Additionally, we have managed to qualify for the Champions League Final, where premier league winners Manchester United await in 2 weeks time.

My beloved squad

Possession stats and pass percentage are excellent. I'm also really pleased with the few amounts of goals conceded, combined with our offensive potency. We dominated the competition in almost every attacking statistic, including a hilarious 17 goals from corners (Konate bagged 13 goals)

Almost all my goals were the results of the attacking patterns outlined in my last post. As my players trained and developed, their offensive potency grew to truly scary levels

like this

or this

 

o

or this!

The TACTIC

As you can see, it's nothing too revolutionary. I used to use a bunch of PI's and TI's. But over the course of my testing, I began to strip down the unnecessary ones, one by one, observing keenly and taking copious notes. What you see here is the final result of hours spent watching full matches and plenty of spent ink on written notes.

What instruction made the biggest difference? 

Without a doubt, whipped crosses. Think again about how Manchester City play. The majority of their crosses (not cutbacks!) are absolutely fizzed into the penalty area at great pace. Principally by Mendy and KDB. These are equivalent to whipped crosses. You don't need jumping reach to get on the end of them. Nor much heading ability. In fact I found the majority of whipped crosses to be drilled at knee height or so. The higher ones would be fizzed right on top of the attackers head, needing only a slight redirection to take it past the keeper.

Secondly, they are so effective because they connect to the foot or head of an onrushing attacker. My players aren't static in the penalty box, often making darting runs into the box just in time to meet the cross at pace. The pace of both ball and man results in a powerful bullet header or half volley that almost always goes in unless it's straight at the keeper or just narrowly goes over. I'm almost tempted to call it broken.

Tsygankov's 25 assists and Aouar's 21 assists were mainly from these whipped crosses.

Other random tidbits

- None of my players in both seasons ever reached 30 goals. The goals were often spread evenly around the team, with six players scoring more than 10 goals this season, and 3 of those scoring 24 (Esposito), 23 (Moukoko) and 21 (Brenner). The spread of goals was delightful and reinforced the fact that this is a fluid, flexible team with varied goalscoring avenues.

- The tactic performs surprisingly well in tough away games as well. During the 2 seasons at Lyon, I only suffered 2 away defeats to juggernauts in France or in Europe (1-2 to PSG and 0-1 vs Monaco). The team was also able to maintain excellent possession and superior XG vs these teams as well. The superb away performances are a major reason the team was able to make Europa league finals in the first season, and the upcoming CL final in the second.

Great looking tactic, @Ripamon. Congratulations on deposing PSG and reaching the 100 point mark! What's the thinking/reason behind the offset AML/MR?

[Cult of Football Manager]

I am utterly bemused to what I have just witnessed in real life. Chelsea were very good against City again but some of the tactical instructions or player decisions ( depending on which it was ) for City seemed utter nonsense. 

 

 

[Wavelberry]

Playing without a DM or a midfielder with any defensive responsibilities was probably also a bit dumb. Almost like someone who comes on these forums with a mint team and all mezzalas in midfield and are like 'why I no win?'.

Nice to see that even Pep falls into the same old traps tbh.

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, Wavelberry said:

Playing without a DM or a midfielder with any defensive responsibilities was probably also a bit dumb. Almost like someone who comes on these forums with a mint team and all mezzalas in midfield and are like 'why I no win?'.

Nice to see that even Pep falls into the same old traps tbh.

lol the OP's tactic uses all mezzala midfield

Edited May 30, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Cult of Football Manager]

10 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

lol the OP's tactic uses all mezzala midfield

The DLP is in there. it's a DLP, Mezzala, Mezzala. Guess you missed that.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Cult of Football Manager

[hotrod4490]

On 29/05/2021 at 17:02, Cult of Football Manager said:

I am utterly bemused to what I have just witnessed in real life. Chelsea were very good against City again but some of the tactical instructions or player decisions ( depending on which it was ) for City seemed utter nonsense. 

 

 

Agreed. When I saw Gundogan was essentially the DM, I was like, "This is going to be a problem."

The amount of space in the midfield for Chelsea's goal was reminiscent of arsenal's midfielder over the last decade.

[Beni150]

Do you think I can tweak this tactic slightly so on the left side I have overlap from the full back.

I am thinking like Wb(Au) with get further forward, carrilero in midfield and inside forward on the wing without 'Stay Wider' PI, 

Do these roles make sense? thanks

[Cult of Football Manager]

5 minutes ago, Beni150 said:

Do you think I can tweak this tactic slightly so on the left side I have overlap from the full back.

I am thinking like Wb(Au) with get further forward, carrilero in midfield and inside forward on the wing without 'Stay Wider' PI, 

Do these roles make sense? thanks

Tweak yes absolutely! An overlapping full back would probably make it a better overall tactic especially for the moments where the IW goes in too narrow too early. In terms of what to combine that with I would just start with that and then see what changing the Mezzala does in the patterns and movements that you're seeing.

The issue with the inside forward is the mentality check his mentality when combining it with the other roles. I'm not saying you can't use it but it can behave very differently to the other roles used previously. 

Start with the wingback and go from there I personally would then doing the 3 at once if you see what I mean? Let us Know how you get on!

[migas8982]

Me personally I have tweaked it differently, moved the DM to Defend role, for more defensive stability and make sure the DM has a more defensive mentality to prevent counter attacks from the opposing team as he stays more backward...from my experience he also contributes well in attack but has a more defensive minded utility...

Another tweak I made is the defensive line, one notch done from current present, is way better at preventing counter attacks...

And this is something always present in my tactics, is Pressing at Max and tight marking...one thing you didn't add in in your screenshots or philosophy behind the way you give opponent instructions...I follow the ones on the passion4fm website with the Barcelona Tiki Taka guardiola tactics...which have a logical and interesting point of view, altering the instructions according to the players I will be facing...

 

Another thing I add is the instruction to be more expressive, because when you have really creative players, mainly when using the Pass into Space option, you will see amazing football, and increase the potential for opportunities created using the movements created by the Mezzalas, Wingers and IW...

 

By the way amazing tactic, I always wanted to recreate Pep's tactics, but I always needed a bit of help in order to obtain clear instructions on how to set it properly, and then give it my final personal touch regarding defensive movements and transitions...I hope we will get more instructions on how to apply pressure and in which areas of the field...

 

I also make some changes match by match, but this can only be done properly doing a tactical analysis of the opponent, mainly see where is their weakest point in defense (where do the assists for the goals they suffer mainly come from), right or left side, through the middle, or through long balls, and you have in this situation to make small tweaks....for example a team that is weaker on the right side, you need to force your game more through the left side, so I make sure my left winger is left footed and try to enforce more crosses through that side, change the right CM to AM-A to have more players appearing , those are very small details that make the difference...

If a team is weak through the middle, I force the play by the middle and play narrower...

If a team is weak on both sides, I make it wider, try to create 2 separate blocks, the right side and left side, keeping the midfield wide open to then switch quickly to other side and create overloads, the idea is to have crosses coming from all sides and positions for opposing wingers to appear on the far post...

This is my main thought of process facing the opponents...

For opponents that play very high and use counter I do other changes, like switching the mentality to attacking or very attacking. Just because you lower the mentality does not mean your team will defend or attack more, it's just the amount of risk you are taking, mainly on my cases which I want is passes, they will try to get rid of the ball  quicker with higher risk passes, mainly long distance through balls 

These are mainly micro adjustments, I don't touch other instructions, just try to make small adjustments depending on the opponent, and the speed at which I watch the game will bore most of you...It takes me around 30-45 minutes per match...I play at default speed and on the second position from top on the commentaries...when I see the opponents is create more chances I switch to full match and try to correct for the opponent and the game moment to try and become on top...

 

[soft tofu]

I am currently playing Perak FA in Malaysian Super League and this is how I set up the team. Won the league in the first season unbeaten.

IWBs on the right usually play like a normal WB so I bought a midfielder who can play as a right back an it works well. He plays more centrally than a normal right back. FB on the left has PI like an IWB but still play wide although he would not go further forward too much. So I have a lopsided back three. I used a 4231(2DMs) in my old tactic and I got the back three I wanted but can't get it work in this 433 setup.

The wingers all have hug the touchline trait and play killer balls. At first I used a striker and attacking midfielder who aren't natural as false nine so the movement aren't great. Tried CMa at first but they aren't wide enough. They usually attack the box but the wingers weren't able to make the pass. So I used Mezzalas(a) now with one of them having a close down more PI. So when out of possession, I do get the 442 shape. I found that extremely urgent pressing doesn't work well as the opposition usually able to bypass our pressing with one long ball from the CB. So I tone down one notch. There's also Opposition Instruction mainly to limit the wide players from opposite team to play crosses.

Pass into space also helped to make more through balls. We have a lot of possession but not so much shots and pass into space helped change that. The team usually have 60% possession with 85% passing completion.

I thought about this for sometime, but do you think Pep's Barca tactic works better than Man City's tactic? @Cult of Football Manager

Second tactic I'm using as I have a winger with better finishing.

[Cult of Football Manager]

@soft tofu

Yeah it sounds like you came across some of the same frustrations  I had. In terms of your question if you went undefeated with that version I wouldn't look to change it too much? Maybe test it in a different league also?

In terms of Pep's Barca I obviously didn't touch on that in the thread but you'd have to get your RB to be the occupier of the wide zones if you think about the pitch in this type of break down

 

 

 

 quite often So in my head I would think CWB-A or CWB- S for when your RW moves inside. Not sure whether Mezzala would be the best role for RCM if you're going to go down the Barca route and you do go with something like CWB-S etc for the RB. 

I did think about this for a recreation but didn't want to recreate the same manager again straight away so I looked at Ancelotti and Simeone instead.

 

The only thing I would say is if you're happy with what you're seeing in the match engine and you're being successful then enjoy it !

[JyriM]

Thank you for all the detailed work and development of this tactic in Fm21. I tried to do a long term save to get As Roma to play that beautiful football, but from all the tactics and saves that I have tried in this game - it's the first one that I am failing massively. It's either weirdest unluck or is the default As Roma squad impossible to get familiar with the tactic. 

I do score plenty, but the defence isn't even SUS, it's god woeful  And I am first time in the verge of sack. Got some wonderkids in January window and sold some players that were bidded on massively, to get some funds in. 

 

[Cult of Football Manager]

1 hour ago, JyriM said:

Thank you for all the detailed work and development of this tactic in Fm21. I tried to do a long term save to get As Roma to play that beautiful football, but from all the tactics and saves that I have tried in this game - it's the first one that I am failing massively. It's either weirdest unluck or is the default As Roma squad impossible to get familiar with the tactic. 

I do score plenty, but the defence isn't even SUS, it's god woeful  And I am first time in the verge of sack. Got some wonderkids in January window and sold some players that were bidded on massively, to get some funds in. 

 

Yeah I'm not massively familiar playing as Roma I don't think I've done a save with them since CM 01/02! Their squad in FM 21 probably isn't the best for the tactic and it's not supposed to be a ultra overachieving P & P tacitc so it doesn't surprise me that this can happen especially if you get off to a bad start with form and morale.

 

All I would suggest is in those bad runs I tend to switch to my defensive tactic or attacking tactic slightly earlier. If we are winning by 1 goal but in terrible form I'm a little more aggressive to switch to the defensive version. 

If we're in terrible form and drawing to a team we should be beating I go to the attacking tactic a little earlier then I would normally.

 

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM.fmf

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM Def.fmf

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM ATT.fmf

If you didn't download the other ones there they are plus the up to date pep tactic if you aren't using that one already.

[JyriM]

1 hour ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Yeah I'm not massively familiar playing as Roma I don't think I've done a save with them since CM 01/02! Their squad in FM 21 probably isn't the best for the tactic and it's not supposed to be a ultra overachieving P & P tacitc so it doesn't surprise me that this can happen especially if you get off to a bad start with form and morale.

 

All I would suggest is in those bad runs I tend to switch to my defensive tactic or attacking tactic slightly earlier. If we are winning by 1 goal but in terrible form I'm a little more aggressive to switch to the defensive version. 

If we're in terrible form and drawing to a team we should be beating I go to the attacking tactic a little earlier then I would normally.

 

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM.fmf 44.12 kB · 0 downloads

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM Def.fmf 44.14 kB · 0 downloads

4-3-3 Pep Recreation 433 TheCultofFM ATT.fmf 44.46 kB · 0 downloads

If you didn't download the other ones there they are plus the up to date pep tactic if you aren't using that one already.

Yes I have been using all the tricks all season, getting some false dawns and then I have games where I am not getting outdone by a one long ball or individual error - but I see from the goals conceded how my players are pressing, but I am getting like 1 touch passed from their GK til goal. Pretty much average teams outplay my squad in TIki - Taka way  It's the oddest FM experience I have had so far. 

If any of you want to try it out As Roma default no transfers on first window mode - be my guest and share what you experience.  

[Cult of Football Manager]

32 minutes ago, JyriM said:

Yes I have been using all the tricks all season, getting some false dawns and then I have games where I am not getting outdone by a one long ball or individual error - but I see from the goals conceded how my players are pressing, but I am getting like 1 touch passed from their GK til goal. Pretty much average teams outplay my squad in TIki - Taka way  It's the oddest FM experience I have had so far. 

If any of you want to try it out As Roma default no transfers on first window mode - be my guest and share what you experience.  

I'm a bit busy at the moment to start a new save and I wouldn't just play with the default squad anyway. That's not how I've ever played Football Manager. Like I said it's not a @knap level P & P tactic to win every game for any set of random players ( which some of his tactics will get you brilliant results) . I always said the complete opposite at the start but it just happened to be a lot easier to plug it in and work by the end and the final version. I still wouldn't call it a P&P tactic though which it seems like you're treating it like and comparing it to which it was never designed to be?

I'm not having a go at you by the way with this I'm just trying to simplify what you're saying to me here. It's not a P & P. You didn't try to sign any players to help your cause. and then you had the same issue with one ball over the top and didn't adjust in game or tweak it to suit your players just accepted the outcome of being done over the top? 

I don't know what to tell you or what you're trying to get from me. I feel like a TV salesman who has a customer coming back telling me it didn't work properly because they tried to water their plants with it.

I'm currently using it on my Boston save where I've had a few promotions in a row back to back which I've posted lots of videos about?

[knap]

@JyriM

 

I would pop over and watch the vids on the Baden Powell You tube, as you are getting great free advice.

I would also try the original 41221 tactic as may be more user friendly.

[Macgreg]

Good day everyone. Anyone got a link to the recreation of Hansi flicks Bayern tactics or a link to download? Thank you 

[ta11zx]

Where's the download link

[Cult of Football Manager]

17 hours ago, ta11zx said:

Where's the download link

For my tactic?

There's 3 at the bottom of the opening post.

Main tactic - Poacher for best results or DLF for most realism

Defensive version to see out the game ( Around 78 minutes if you're only leading by one goal ) 

Attacking version to get a goal when behind or drawing and needing to win

[levo in da house]

I appreciate your work. If possible, could you adapt the Barcelona 2011-2012 tactic?

[Cult of Football Manager]

17 hours ago, levo in da house said:

I appreciate your work. If possible, could you adapt the Barcelona 2011-2012 tactic?

Thank you @levo in da house 

I'm just finishing up recording a video for a Simeone tactic I created. In terms of next tactics I was looking at a more general tactic of Barcelona in that period from 2009-2011. I have 3 more tactics I'd like to do. a 3-5-2 which is my own creation, a tweak of the pep tactic and translate it into a Barcelona 2008-2011 tactic, lastly I'd like to look at a Rafa Benitez Liverpool 2008-2009 a team that came very close to winning the title with much less to work with then their title rivals.

[JoOSTAR]

1 hour ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Thank you @levo in da house 

I'm just finishing up recording a video for a Simeone tactic I created. In terms of next tactics I was looking at a more general tactic of Barcelona in that period from 2009-2011. I have 3 more tactics I'd like to do. a 3-5-2 which is my own creation, a tweak of the pep tactic and translate it into a Barcelona 2008-2011 tactic, lastly I'd like to look at a Rafa Benitez Liverpool 2008-2009 a team that came very close to winning the title with much less to work with then their title rivals.

Very interested in the Simeone tactic (I love defensively strong tactics)  and the 3-5-2

[JoOSTAR]

2 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Thank you @levo in da house 

I'm just finishing up recording a video for a Simeone tactic I created. In terms of next tactics I was looking at a more general tactic of Barcelona in that period from 2009-2011. I have 3 more tactics I'd like to do. a 3-5-2 which is my own creation, a tweak of the pep tactic and translate it into a Barcelona 2008-2011 tactic, lastly I'd like to look at a Rafa Benitez Liverpool 2008-2009 a team that came very close to winning the title with much less to work with then their title rivals.

Very interested in the Simeone tactic (I love defensively strong tactics)  and the 3-5-2

[Cult of Football Manager]

1 hour ago, JoOSTAR said:

Very interested in the Simeone tactic (I love defensively strong tactics)  and the 3-5-2

Well it's specifically a recreation of his 2013-2014 team and they conceded 26 goals that season! Which lots of good defensive tactics beat easily on FM 21!

[JoOSTAR]

8 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Well it's specifically a recreation of his 2013-2014 team and they conceded 26 goals that season! Which lots of good defensive tactics beat easily on FM 21!

Any idea when you will release the tactic/video?

[Cult of Football Manager]

18 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Any idea when you will release the tactic/video?

Later on in the week maybe Wednesday or Thursday ? If anyone wants to preview it in advance just shoot me a PM and I can send you a link.

[JoOSTAR]

1 hour ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Later on in the week maybe Wednesday or Thursday ? If anyone wants to preview it in advance just shoot me a PM and I can send you a link.

I'm up for a preview if you don't mind.

[ta11zx]

On 28/06/2021 at 12:23, Cult of Football Manager said:

Later on in the week maybe Wednesday or Thursday ? If anyone wants to preview it in advance just shoot me a PM and I can send you a link.

Hey

Any update on this? Waiting on this tactic 

[coach vahid]

il y a une heure, ta11zx a dit :

Hey

Any update on this? Waiting on this tactic 

It's on you tube...

[ta11zx]

1 minute ago, coach vahid said:

It's on you tube...

where? The simione tactic he was talking about?

[coach vahid]

Il y a 1 heure, ta11zx a dit :

where? The simione tactic he was talking about?

You tube... You search for Simeone fm 21...and voilà. 

[Skywalk3r83]

Hi! Are the latest versions of this tactic in the OP? @Cult of Football Manager

[Cult of Football Manager]

2 hours ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

Hi! Are the latest versions of this tactic in the OP? @Cult of Football Manager

Yes mate! DLF for the combination of movements and Poacher for just overall results.

 

Switch to the defensive or attacking versions to see out the game or go for a goal!

[eddygodwin]

On 25/05/2021 at 19:23, Cult of Football Manager said:

Thanks mate I appreciate it!

I did straight away after but I thought I'd do something a little different so I've been spending time on another recreation. I don't know if I'll have time to post it on here in written format will more then likely be a video on Youtube. 

 

I might save Pep's Barca for FM 22 

How would you set it up? I'm thinking to use a cautious mentality with tenacious pressing (TI: much shorter, POD, low crosses, dribble less, overlap left&right and focus down the left, Counter press and hold shape). (PI: CB stay wider, Wingers to stay wider, SS  roam from position).

IW (A)                                SS/AP(A)?                            IF(S)

                        Mez (A)                     RPM/DLP

 WB/IWB(S)                           HB                                  CWB(A)

                               BPD                     CB

                                            SK(D)

[Jack722]

I always enjoy threads like these so thanks 

You've gone into lots of depth, which I think is great, but I've only really had time to skim through due to time and patience, so I apologize if I'm duplicating anything.

I'm just going to post my interpretation of Pep's 18/19 (I think?) system, when they had a front three of Sane, Sterling and Aguero and hopefully spark some more discussion around some key areas.

• Firstly, I'm focusing more on the attacking structure, perhaps at the expense of replicating exactly how they pressed
• Secondly, I try to make my tactics as simple as they can be, so I try to avoid wacky or assymetric formations where possible. As well as trim down all my instructions.

1. I actually tried to replicate this system a while back using a 433, but I was never satisfied with the attacking shape, as the wingers moved narrow far too early. I think a 4141 imo is absolutely perfect for how City played that season, as the wingers only every make late bursts into the box, while keeping width for the majority of the attack. The 4141 also allows more space for the free 8's to get forward into the half spaces.
2. I think when Aguero played, he was closest to an AF in FM terms. Replaying lots of the games I see that he spent lots of time in between the centre backs or in the channels rather than dropping deep. Comparing him with F9 Messi or Kane these days and I think he plays much higher than a general support striker.
3. I don't think there were any playmakers in the side. To me it seems that everyone more or less held there position and never really hunted for the ball to dictate the tempo.
4. It took me a while to figure out, but WMa (with stay wider and cross from byline) I think is the best interpretation of Sane and Sterling. At the start, the one role I was 100% sure on was that Sane and Sterling were going to be a Wa, but results at the start were extremely incosistent and I realised it was because whenever the ball went to the wingers, they would try to dribble straight away and get doubled up on by opposition wingers and fullbacks. Wide midfielders reduce the dribbling and crossing and therefore make for much better combination play with the free 8's, as well as more patience in attack. 

 

[JoOSTAR]

3 hours ago, Jack722 said:

I always enjoy threads like these so thanks 

You've gone into lots of depth, which I think is great, but I've only really had time to skim through due to time and patience, so I apologize if I'm duplicating anything.

I'm just going to post my interpretation of Pep's 18/19 (I think?) system, when they had a front three of Sane, Sterling and Aguero and hopefully spark some more discussion around some key areas.

• Firstly, I'm focusing more on the attacking structure, perhaps at the expense of replicating exactly how they pressed
• Secondly, I try to make my tactics as simple as they can be, so I try to avoid wacky or assymetric formations where possible. As well as trim down all my instructions.

1. I actually tried to replicate this system a while back using a 433, but I was never satisfied with the attacking shape, as the wingers moved narrow far too early. I think a 4141 imo is absolutely perfect for how City played that season, as the wingers only every make late bursts into the box, while keeping width for the majority of the attack. The 4141 also allows more space for the free 8's to get forward into the half spaces.
2. I think when Aguero played, he was closest to an AF in FM terms. Replaying lots of the games I see that he spent lots of time in between the centre backs or in the channels rather than dropping deep. Comparing him with F9 Messi or Kane these days and I think he plays much higher than a general support striker.
3. I don't think there were any playmakers in the side. To me it seems that everyone more or less held there position and never really hunted for the ball to dictate the tempo.
4. It took me a while to figure out, but WMa (with stay wider and cross from byline) I think is the best interpretation of Sane and Sterling. At the start, the one role I was 100% sure on was that Sane and Sterling were going to be a Wa, but results at the start were extremely incosistent and I realised it was because whenever the ball went to the wingers, they would try to dribble straight away and get doubled up on by opposition wingers and fullbacks. Wide midfielders reduce the dribbling and crossing and therefore make for much better combination play with the free 8's, as well as more patience in attack. 

 

 

Any other Player instructions in your tactic than "stay wider" and "cross from byline" on your WM(a)'s?

[Jack722]

42 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

 

Any other Player instructions in your tactic than "stay wider" and "cross from byline" on your WM(a)'s?

no.

not gonna lie to you though, we're currently 4th or something similar half way through the season, so it's not a world beating tactic. Although a lot of that was experimenting, and we're currently on a decent winning streak after settling on the tactic I posted.

So if you use it for an extended period, let me know how it goes, I'd be interested.