Plug and Play Tactics. How can they work??

[CalumF]

I dont understand how plug and play tactics work. "This tactic is the best there is"."It will work for every team". How can one tactic for every game of the season, home and away, give you the success to win trophies and be at the top end of the table. Am I missing something???

Ive been playing as Sunderland. Ive managed to get them to 5th and 6th in the last 2 seasons in the premier league, struggling this season though tinkering away with my 352 wing backs that's got me a little frustrated of late. Do I stick with my high defensive line at Anfield? Do I make my wing backs more attacking at home against a potentially weaker side than mine? Do I go balanced or more positive? Decisions a manager needs to make on a game to game basis right?

Some of these tactics that come up on the forum (dont get me wrong, look good tactics in there own right) work for every game? And more importantly work for other peoples teams that have completely different players to theirs? I know a lot are put on the forum as a guide or to help others who may be struggling but do these players stick rigid to these, never adjust between games? Would love to know. 

Thank you.  

[Freakiie]

In a sense these tactics are exploits. They basically try to find areas where the game struggles with properly handling the situation, whether that's due to ME limitations or the AI not reacting to what's happening on the pitch. Will they work for every match or be the best for every situation? Generally no, as they tend to be hyper aggressive, so there will be matches you fall flat on your face. Will their performances be amazing over a whole season? Yes, since a couple off days in the league will rarely be a big deal unless the AI has an amazing run as well. Of course cups are a bit of a different story, as a single loss can end your run.

But yes, after having taking some of these tactics for a spin in past FM editions to check them out, you can pretty rigidly stick to them without having to worry about the tactics side of the match. Perhaps find a slightly more conservative tactics for big European away matches and you're set to go. As these tactics don't necessarily rely on logic actually trying to tweak them will generally just backfire.

 

 

[herne79]

1 hour ago, CalumF said:

I dont understand how plug and play tactics work. "This tactic is the best there is"."It will work for every team". How can one tactic for every game of the season, home and away, give you the success to win trophies and be at the top end of the table. Am I missing something???

They don't and there is no such thing as a tactic which "will work for every team" because no tactic has been tested with "every team".

There are however certain tactics, usually aggressive ones / very attacking ones, which can overpower your opponents regularly with a variety of teams - brute forcing things if you will.  Some of the better tactics out there have been tested with a number of teams and so give you a broad spectrum of clubs to use with which will appeal to a lot of people.  A lot of effort goes into making such tactics.  Others of course aren't quite so extensively tested and tend to fall by the wayside.  That's fine and different people like to play the game in different ways, so good luck to anyone that develops and uses those type of tactics. 

It's not for everyone though so just ignore it if you want to play a different way because the match engine and game overall is flexible enough to let us do so .

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, CalumF said:

I dont understand how plug and play tactics work. "This tactic is the best there is"."It will work for every team". How can one tactic for every game of the season, home and away, give you the success to win trophies and be at the top end of the table. Am I missing something???

You are actually talking about so-called "exploit tactics". Well, the answer is quite simple - they work because they are designed in such a way as to exploit certain weaknesses of the ME. And every ME must have some weaknesses that can be exploited, simply because no video game can be perfect, no matter how well-designed it is.

The only question is what type of playing FM one enjoys more. Some people only care about winning every single match or trophy with whatever club and don't care whether their tactic makes any sense from the perspective of fundamental logic or not. For such people, plug'n'play/exploit tactics are perfect. Others, like myself, prefer to create something that makes sense on their own, even if results may not be as good as those produced by exploit/PnP tactics.

So each to their own 

[CalumF]

Thank you for the responses. All make a lot of sense. 

I've always been a player that likes to make their own tactic with guidance from the forums when things go wrong. But can understand those players that want that exploit tactic that's there and easy to use. 

Weaknesses in the match engine? Is there that many? Is the AI not good/high enough to exploit straight back? Going a little over my head now. Getting that balance I suppose. 

Thank you again. 

[crusadertsar]

I agree with @Experienced Defendercomment above wholeheartedly. It's really a preference thing. Some folks just want to win no matter what. While others, me included, just want to see their tactical vision coming alive on the screen. I can't explain how satisfying it is to think up a formation and style of play and then see little virtual dots performing it according to your plan (most of the time). I don't even care about trophies. I think I only won the league cup a few times in all my saves in FM21. I'm sure if I plugged in some geggenpress ultra aggressive tactic by @knap my virtual cabinet would be overflowing. But that doesn't matter to me 

Edited May 20, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, CalumF said:

Weaknesses in the match engine? Is there that many?

It's impossible to quantify ME weaknesses (or anything of that kind that pertains to a video game). But for me personally, the most important thing about the ME is that it absolutely allows you to create normal and sensible tactics that work nicely. That applies to the ME in every iteration of FM, not just the latest one. So it is not necessary to use exploit/pnp tactics in order to be successful tactics-wise. And when I say "successful", I do not refer to winning the title with an underdog in the first season (although even that is not impossible, especially for top-level FM players like Rashidi for example). 

 

3 hours ago, CalumF said:

Is the AI not good/high enough to exploit straight back?

Well, it's quite normal (expected) that AI can never be as creative as a human player, whether that creativity is applied in a fair or unfair (cheating) manner. 

[Rober82]

I absolutely love Plug And Play tactics <3 I don't feel any need to take any moral high-ground what so ever.

Exploit tactics does not exist anymore, gone are the days that one tactic worked equally well for any team. Some work better for classes of teams, meaning they work better for a underdog finding holes in the bigger teams way to attack you, but that is reality in real life as well. And some work for high CA teams bc they just overpower the lesser teams getting the most goals scored.

Some of the "plug and play" gegenpress tactics play beautiful football, and is lovely to watch in 3D.

[phnompenhandy]

5 hours ago, Rober82 said:

I absolutely love Plug And Play tactics <3 I don't feel any need to take any moral high-ground what so ever.

Exploit tactics does not exist anymore, gone are the days that one tactic worked equally well for any team. Some work better for classes of teams, meaning they work better for a underdog finding holes in the bigger teams way to attack you, but that is reality in real life as well. And some work for high CA teams bc they just overpower the lesser teams getting the most goals scored.

Some of the "plug and play" gegenpress tactics play beautiful football, and is lovely to watch in 3D.

I'm glad you posted this because it completely contradicts what I was going to say. I'll post anyway in the spirit of demonstrating how FM appeals to such a rich and varied market.

There is a part of this forum at the top that I've never visited and never will. I was assuming fans of p-n-p tactics would go there and not have the patience to slog through these long and winding threads discussing how to improve nuances of tactical set-ups. I personally spend whole days ploughing through threads, guides and youtube videos looking for tips. So I figured until Rober82 posted that this thread would be an echo-chamber. I suspect it mostly will be.

I create my own tactics and go for realism. I don't look for exploits to help me win, but I wouldn't say there are no ME issues. I'm still playing FM19 so I hope this no longer applies, but starting in lower league I found every cross hit the first man and was proving a waste of time; this was the case season after season so I had to develop a tactic to minimise crossing, with wide men cutting inside. Once I got to the Premier League the percentage of crosses suddenly normalised, leading me to deduce that a player needs to be a certain (and pretty high) quality to successfully cross. So this is an example of identifying a ME issue to reduce problems in a tactic rather than exploit for advantage.

Anyway, it's taken me 14 seasons to evolve a tactic that I'm extremely proud of, enabling me to survive in the Premier League where I'm utterly out of my depth. It's a pleasure that would not have been possible if I'd gone the instant gratification route.

[Rober82]

6 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I create my own tactics and go for realism.

The thing that annoys me, and I'm not pointing at you here, is the attitude that people who use downloaded/p&p tactics are somehow lesser players because those tactics are not "realistic".
Is letting your AM handle training realistic? How well would that work in real life for a manager? "Ahh I don't bother with training, such a nuisance". What about people taking over Oxford United never having managed before? Let alone Newcastle or Bayern. How can you justify playing without attribute marking? It's not as if Arteta can pull up a list of under 19 Argentine CB's and see who has best marking in real life.
So where does that start and stop?

With tactics apparently, where you are almost like an inferior human being because you have kids and a busy life, and no longer have time to set up tactics. It does not matter that you have played this game since CM Italia, and made 100's of tactics, and still can. I only care about winning, they say.

I would guess a big majority of FM players use these tactics, so of course some people have to feel they are "better players".
This needs to stop, there are people who avoid these forums because of this attitude.

Let people play how they want, and stop judging people.

[CARRERA]

I think it’s completely fine to play with downloaded tactics. The game offers such a broad variety of options and things to do. Someone’s priority might be the transfer market but cares less about tactics and training. Or one who does primarily focus on rushing through the seasons and win as much silverware as possible. Others like to replicate certain styles of play from real life coaches.

FM is a Sandbox game for everyone to create their own story and immersion of a football manger.

 

[crusadertsar]

50 minutes ago, Rober82 said:

The thing that annoys me, and I'm not pointing at you here, is the attitude that people who use downloaded/p&p tactics are somehow lesser players because those tactics are not "realistic".
Is letting your AM handle training realistic? How well would that work in real life for a manager? "Ahh I don't bother with training, such a nuisance". What about people taking over Oxford United never having managed before? Let alone Newcastle or Bayern. How can you justify playing without attribute marking? It's not as if Arteta can pull up a list of under 19 Argentine CB's and see who has best marking in real life.
So where does that start and stop?

With tactics apparently, where you are almost like an inferior human being because you have kids and a busy life, and no longer have time to set up tactics. It does not matter that you have played this game since CM Italia, and made 100's of tactics, and still can. I only care about winning, they say.

I would guess a big majority of FM players use these tactics, so of course some people have to feel they are "better players".
This needs to stop, there are people who avoid these forums because of this attitude.

Let people play how they want, and stop judging people.

I'm not sure why you are being so defensive mate. So far all the previous comments made were pretty respectful and inclusive to both sides. The main point being that there's no wrong or right way to play. Whatever floats your boat. But when I read your comment in isolation it sounds as if plug and play tactics were being under attack in this thread. Which i think is far from the truth when you read this discussion from the beginning. I think you should take a deep breath or two and take a chill pill so to speak. Nobody here has a problem with how you play or said that it is an "inferior" way of playing FM. Myself, @Experienced Defenderand @phnompenhandy were just offering a perspective into what brings satisfaction to us when playing the game the way we do. Not belittling the plug and play side or claiming it's inferior.

Edited May 21, 2021 by crusadertsar

[EnigMattic1]

Me personally, I wouldn't say that I am against plug-and-play tactics, I am just the sort of person who wants to know why something is or isn't working. I don't think any less of someone who downloads PnP tactics. In fact, my best friend does and we still have pretty in-depth discussions about our results. The beauty of FM is that there is no wrong way to play it. I mean, if there was, why would they make the editor available?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Rober82 said:

Let people play how they want, and stop judging people

Absolutely. That's the only legitimate attitude 

[CAE82]

It could be argued that P&P tactics wouldn’t be needed if the tactic presets were better :)

[crusadertsar]

23 minutes ago, CAE82 said:

It could be argued that P&P tactics wouldn’t be needed if the tactic presets were better

I think you are missing the point of presets. They were never meant to be used as finished end-all tactics that bring success to any team you try them with (like with plug and play). Rather presets are there to give a user a template and a starting idea of how to create a specific style of play. As a tactical starting point that you can use to start building your own tactic around. That's why usually it's a good idea to start with a preset to see what are the instructions that can lead to a lot of possesion for example (if you are trying to build a possession-focused tactic). And then make tweaks to it.

Presets tend to go overboard by ticking off nearly ALL instructions for that style so they are rather extreme. What you want to do is work backwards and try to remove the instructions that you don't need and arrive at essential ones. It really depends on how much possession you want. Presets always need to be tweaked to fit your team. They can backfire horribly if you don't have a team that fits that style.

Plug and play just brute force the AI by overwhelming it with a lot of aggressive instructions and roles swarming into the final third at the same time. Hence exploiting the limitation of ME. Not what presets are designed for at all.

Edited May 21, 2021 by crusadertsar

[CARRERA]

20 minutes ago, CAE82 said:

It could be argued that P&P tactics wouldn’t be needed if the tactic presets were better

Why would someone want P&P tactics not to be "needed"? Also Presets are also P&P tactics, however very bad ones.

[Skywalk3r83]

I use the preset Gegenpress tactic with a lot of succes. I only adjust some player roles and the mentality. But you need to have the right players for it. 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, CAE82 said:

It could be argued that P&P tactics wouldn’t be needed if the tactic presets were better

While I agree that preset tactics could - and should - have been better designed (in order to make things easier for less experienced players), you completely missed the point. Because presets were never intended to serve as a replacement for PnP tactics, nor do they have anything in common (apart from the overkill of instructions ).

[CAE82]

Sorry guys. I was just being facetious. I thought the :) would give it away but I think you missed the point. Apologies. 

[B3nnet7]

On 21/05/2021 at 13:47, Rober82 said:

Is letting your AM handle training realistic? How well would that work in real life for a manager? "Ahh I don't bother with training, such a nuisance". What about people taking over Oxford United never having managed before? Let alone Newcastle or Bayern. How can you justify playing without attribute marking? It's not as if Arteta can pull up a list of under 19 Argentine CB's and see who has best marking in real life.
So where does that start and stop?

I really don't think any of those things are unrealistic though, okay yeah delegating training is unrealistic but if you actually look at training even though it is delagated to the assistant manager the game actually recognises you as still participating in training and you can choose what parts of training you would lead even though the overall training is done by the assistant. 

How can you say it is unrealistic to manage a team as your first manager job, it happens all the time in football, lower league and bigger clubs. Rooney's first job is Derby, Lampard's at Derby, Gerrard's at Rangers, Pirlo's at Juventus! So it is totally realistic to manage large or small clubs from the start! 

Attribute masking, how do you know scouts don't use a number system to determine a players ability in real life? Also some scouts and managers even use FM as a guide to players abilities so again it is entirely possible for a manager to being able to see a number format to judge a players ability. 

 

[Experienced Defender]

Preventively locking this thread before it completely goes in a wrong and unwanted direction (as topics of this kind almost always do).

There has already been a number of threads on this same topic + the OP got answers to his question and does not seem interested in the topic any longer.