Calling up players with second nationality

[passenger58]

Hi, 

I've managed a few national sides in my current save game. 

On several occasions I have identified players who are eligible for my team based on their second nationality but I have never been successful in calling them up.

They always say they have no interest even if they're a fairly mediocre player getting called up for a decent national team. 

Should I be able to call up players based on their second nationality or has the game been coded so I can't? I'll be disappointed if it's the latter tbh. Part of the appeal of managing nations to me was finding hidden gems that are eligible for another nation. 

[Daniel Williams]

I can see why that would be frustrating for you, especially if that was one of the reasons you enjoyed managing those nations! I think @Marc Vaughan is probably best placed to answer whether it's been coded like that, or it's just bad luck?

[Marc Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Daniel Williams said:

I can see why that would be frustrating for you, especially if that was one of the reasons you enjoyed managing those nations! I think @Marc Vaughan is probably best placed to answer whether it's been coded like that, or it's just bad luck?

You should be able to call up someone if your club is their second nation IF they haven't declared for a nation - ie. already been capped.

(if this isn't the case then let me know asap)

[Daniel Williams]

@passenger58 See Marc's answer above, if this is still the case for you please let us know and if possible provide us with a copy of your save (as per below). thanks

 

 

[StephenCronin]

2 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

You should be able to call up someone if your club is their second nation IF they haven't declared for a nation - ie. already been capped.

(if this isn't the case then let me know asap)

I haven't managed internationally for a couple of versions, but in the past there was definitely some sort of player desire check (or a bug!), they didn't always accept the call up even if they hadn't been capped. If you were managing a 'big' nation then your chances of success were pretty good (but not always guaranteed), but if you were managing a smaller nation, it was definitely harder to call up someone from a bigger nation. From memory, there was an actual message along the lines of "Player X has no interest in playing for Nation X" but I could be wrong on that...

Edited June 30, 2021 by StephenCronin

[StephenCronin]

Yeah.. Landon Dykes, second nationality of Australia and uncapped (in the November DB at least): 

 

But he's not interested thank you very much...

 

So you can't just call up anyone who's uncapped had have them accept. And anecdotally it's much harder with a smaller nation - which although frustrating, is realistic and I'm pretty sure by design. 

 

[StephenCronin]

One more thing on this - an eg of a call up being successful. This lad is uncapped for Ireland with a second nationality of England:

 

And I can call him up for England no worries (note the Remove from Nation showing I was successful):

 

But maybe the balance needs to be looked at? I have no idea on that. @passenger58 do you have some egs that you think should work that aren't (ie it would make sense for the player to choose that in real life)?

Anyway, sorry for butting in! 

[Marc Vaughan]

On the balancing front - one thing I can look at is players changing their minds more - say if you've an English youngster with Irish second nationality and he hasn't got an England cap by age 24 he might consider other national teams more seriously? (as I don't think that is taken into account at present).

[StephenCronin]

8 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

On the balancing front - one thing I can look at is players changing their minds more - say if you've an English youngster with Irish second nationality and he hasn't got an England cap by age 24 he might consider other national teams more seriously? (as I don't think that is taken into account at present).

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks!

Maybe in combination with some sort of reputation / PA check if it doesn't add too much complication? ie if they aren't in the top 15% or 20% (or whatever) of their main nation's players, then maybe they'll be more open to playing for a 'smaller' nation by a certain age. But only if it doesn't overcomplicate things (balance wise for you) too much. Also should have some degree of randomness of course. 

[passenger58]

Hi @Daniel Williams @Marc Vaughan @StephenCronin

Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been playing through my save game and experimenting a little. 

So it turns out you CAN call up players with a second nationality but it's really tough. 

The only times I was able to was when I was managing Portugal and Netherlands. In both cases the players were of a low standard (£5k, 30-something journeymen). 

I have also managed Albania, Turkey, DR Congo and Northern Ireland in the same save game and wasn't able to call up any, even at the standard of player described above. 

I suspect the reputation of your nation is a big deciding factor even if the player himself is mediocre at best and has no hope of playing international football otherwise. 

Another thing I have noticed is a big reduction in the amount of players with a second nationality the more you play through a game. I'm guessing the starting DB has a certain amount but this is not being maintained through regens. This obviously gives you a smaller pool of players to select from later in the game. Is this a known issue? 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by passenger58
Typo

[ElliottMS]

On 07/07/2021 at 16:20, passenger58 said:

Hi @Daniel Williams @Marc Vaughan @StephenCronin

Sorry I took a while to reply. I've been playing through my save game and experimenting a little. 

So it turns out you CAN call up players with a second nationality but it's really tough. 

The only times I was able to was when I was managing Portugal and Netherlands. In both cases the players were of a low standard (£5k, 30-something journeymen). 

I have also managed Albania, Turkey, DR Congo and Northern Ireland in the same save game and wasn't able to call up any, even at the standard of player described above. 

I suspect the reputation of your nation is a big deciding factor even if the player himself is mediocre at best and has no hope of playing international football otherwise. 

Another thing I have noticed is a big reduction in the amount of players with a second nationality the more you play through a game. I'm guessing the starting DB has a certain amount but this is not being maintained through regens. This obviously gives you a smaller pool of players to select from later in the game. Is this a known issue? 

 

This is my experience too, but I think the balance is wrong. For example I was managing Jamaica, I should be able to call up an English championship player with second nationality I think as he's never getting in the England team, but it never works like that.

 

[Marc Vaughan]

7 hours ago, ElliottMS said:

This is my experience too, but I think the balance is wrong. For example I was managing Jamaica, I should be able to call up an English championship player with second nationality I think as he's never getting in the England team, but it never works like that.

I think you're somewhat right about this - so I'll tweak it slightly for the next version, sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the feedback.

PS - You won't be able to call up 'all' players; some simply won't be up for the travel and such .. I'll make it so they'll have to be ambitious (and possibly some other characteristics) in order to want to do so, you'll also find them more interested if they have a connection to the country they're being called up to ... for example if you have an English/Irish player playing in Ireland then he is more likely to accept a call up to the Ireland squad if he's ignored by England after a certain age ...

[passenger58]

On 07/08/2021 at 12:51, Marc Vaughan said:

I think you're somewhat right about this - so I'll tweak it slightly for the next version, sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the feedback.

PS - You won't be able to call up 'all' players; some simply won't be up for the travel and such .. I'll make it so they'll have to be ambitious (and possibly some other characteristics) in order to want to do so, you'll also find them more interested if they have a connection to the country they're being called up to ... for example if you have an English/Irish player playing in Ireland then he is more likely to accept a call up to the Ireland squad if he's ignored by England after a certain age ...

Thanks, Marc. Appreciate the feedback.

[ElliottMS]

On 07/08/2021 at 12:51, Marc Vaughan said:

I think you're somewhat right about this - so I'll tweak it slightly for the next version, sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the feedback.

PS - You won't be able to call up 'all' players; some simply won't be up for the travel and such .. I'll make it so they'll have to be ambitious (and possibly some other characteristics) in order to want to do so, you'll also find them more interested if they have a connection to the country they're being called up to ... for example if you have an English/Irish player playing in Ireland then he is more likely to accept a call up to the Ireland squad if he's ignored by England after a certain age ...

Thanks Marc, that sounds great.

I think another thing that needs working on is the sheer number of random second nationalities in newgens. It'll be frequently be really random, and whilst you'll get these occasionally (and would like to see them occasionally!) they won't be as common as they are in the game. If I remember once seeing a Cameroonian/Albanian for example - that's just so unlikely.

Probably you need to script some common ones in. Going back to Jamaica, I think you will fairly frequently find Jamaicans with dual UK, American and Canadian nationalities (indeed as you find in the starting player base). I think the scripting needs to account for colonial pasts, particularly for the Caribbean nations, and also close neighbours, and other common patterns probably by analysing what is already in the database, so e.g. a lot of Turkish/Germans. Easy for me to say and very difficult for you to code I am sure - but just a thought. It's the sort of thing that would extend immersion as the game progresses through the years.

Edited August 17, 2021 by ElliottMS
Spelling correction

[passenger58]

8 minutes ago, ElliottMS said:

Thanks Marc, that sounds great.

I think another thing that needs working on is the sheer number of random second nationalities in newgens. It'll be frequently be really random, and whilst you'll get these occasionally (and would like to see them occasionally!) they won't be as common as they are in the game. If I remember once seeing a Cameroonian/Albanian for example - that's just so unlikely.

Probably you need to script some common ones in. Going back to Jamaica, I think you will fairly frequently find Jamaicans with dual UK, American and Canadian nationalities (indeed as you find in the starting player base). I think the scripting needs to account for colonial pasts, particularly for the Caribbean nations, and also close neighbours, and other common patterns probably by analysing what is already in the database, so e.g. a lot of Turkish/Germans. Easy for me to say and very difficult for you to code I am sure - but just a thought. It's the sort of thing that would extend immersion as the game progresses through the years.

Agree with this. I think it's important to maintain the level of common dual nationalities (i.e. English/Irish. Turkish/German, French/Senegalese, Argentinian/Italian. Australian/Greek, etc).

Also, as mentioned previously I find the number of players with a second nationality generally drops as a save game progresses. Is this a known issue?

[Hildor]

On 07/08/2021 at 12:51, Marc Vaughan said:

I think you're somewhat right about this - so I'll tweak it slightly for the next version, sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the feedback.

PS - You won't be able to call up 'all' players; some simply won't be up for the travel and such .. I'll make it so they'll have to be ambitious (and possibly some other characteristics) in order to want to do so, you'll also find them more interested if they have a connection to the country they're being called up to ... for example if you have an English/Irish player playing in Ireland then he is more likely to accept a call up to the Ireland squad if he's ignored by England after a certain age ...

Will it ever be possible for players to get second nationality in game after a certain number of years playing in a certain league like in real life? 

[sirmavid]

I think another thing that needs working on is the sheer number of random second nationalities in newgens.  get-vidmate.com  instagram saver

Edited January 8, 2022 by sirmavid

[usert4]

@Marc Vaughan I'm glad I found this thread as this is happening to me right now as manager of Australia. I'd like to add that I haven't heard of many IRL dual nationality players rejecting Australia because of travel distance. There have been some over the years, I'm sure. But I've just had about 4 players tell me they don't want to play for their country of birth because of travel.

I'd like to add another suggestion; would it be possible to tie in manager reputation into the likelihood of being able to call a player out of retirement or with helping to convince dual nationality players into choosing a nation? I just feel like a manager, who has won it all, asking a championship level player to play for his country must surely have some weight. 

[Marc Vaughan]

On 11/01/2022 at 09:05, usert4 said:

@Marc Vaughan 
I'd like to add another suggestion; would it be possible to tie in manager reputation into the likelihood of being able to call a player out of retirement or with helping to convince dual nationality players into choosing a nation? I just feel like a manager, who has won it all, asking a championship level player to play for his country must surely have some weight. 

Sounds reasonable - have added that to my (ever growing) to do list