Utilising The New "Wide Centreback" On Fm22

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

Hi Everyone

What kind of set up would you think would utilise the new "wide centreback" role created for FM22?

Its still a pretty rare role id say. Sheffield United made it popular (ish) but they are a poor side.

I think Azpilicueta did a little of this during the spell Conte was manager.

 

What roles would you set up to use a wide centreback?

[Jean0987654321]

I might try to emulate LVG's old 343 system or Gasperini's 3412 system. They both use wide CBs. I wonder what would happen if I make Luke Shaw a wide CB

[Dj-Voodoo]

Kyle Walker for City (at times), Azpi for Tuchel's Chelsea

 

Wide CB role is a cool one, something's that sorely needed in the current tactics/match engine. 

[Tsuru]

We will have to wait because there might be another roles that work beside the Wide Centreback - another advanced wingback role, for example. And we will have to see if the Wide Centreback is not bugged, like the Halfback was some time ago. Better wait and see.

[s0ni42]

Yea I don’t initially relate Wide Centerback to overlapping centerback. I think of it more of wide back 3 which is heavily used all across Europe.

 

[De Nile]

We need a wide forward so the forward actually stays up front at all times and bombs down the flanks. Can play them in the striker position, basically FR and FL position.

[crusadertsar]

I am really excited about this role. Probably like no other FM role before. Mostly because I could finally attempt a more realistic recreation of Cruyff's 3-4-3 Diamond tactic. Eventhough my previous tries in FM21 went pretty well, having a dedicated Wide CB (whom you could set to Attack duty!) would make for an interesting tactical situation.

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by crusadertsar

[CalumF]

Kieran Tierney at Arsenal. Played on the left of a 3 at times last season. Would be a good player to try it with. 

[raktim0699]

How about this? I have never tried it but the wide players could be used as WCB I guess. 

[_mxrky]

I’d rather have a quasi centre back role at full back. One that forms a back 3 but still defends as a full back.

[robot_skeleton]

Betis when Quiqe Setien was the manager they had overlapping centre-backs, Sidnei was the guy on the left not sure who was the one on the right. In England I only saw it from Jack O'Connell at Sheffield under Wilder.

[FMTouched]

Will probably be for total football systems and back 3 systems. Pretty decent addition, i wonder i there are more new roles or if this is the only one.

[Cleon]

18 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

Betis when Quiqe Setien was the manager they had overlapping centre-backs, Sidnei was the guy on the left not sure who was the one on the right. In England I only saw it from Jack O'Connell at Sheffield under Wilder.

Chris Basham too. Basham did it more than Jack. 

[gpassosbh]

Hum.. @Cleon is back?? That's very good news for our community.

[That There Phil]

Let's face it. Most setups we'll see will be 2 wide centre backs on attack accompanied by months of moaning about how crap defending is in the FM22 match engine 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by That There Phil

[Piperita]

2 hours ago, That There Phil said:

Let's face it. Most setups we'll see will be 2 wide centre backs on attack accompanied by months of moaning about how crap defending is in the FM22 match engine 

I am now almost tempted to play with 2 * WCBa, 1 * La , 2 * CWBa, and 2 * VolA -- If 7 at the back won't hold, what even is that game!?!?!

(In all seriousness though, I might try out the two WCBa-route -- I often used two BPDSt as outer centrebacks in the past (especially back when centre-play upped their mentality to neutral) for their offensive movement and more aggressive defending. Together with a good cover and maybe a defensive DM that might create some good movement and active defending.)

[鹅爵爷]

After 5 hours play, still I have not a clear idea how WCB works with wingbacks, especially in a 523 formation with both wingers and wingbacks.

The underlap/overlap with wingback/widemidfield is vague, too.

My impression is that if I set two WCB roles, only one will go forward at the same time the other will must stay in CB line.

 

 

[04texag]

On 01/10/2021 at 11:58, crusadertsar said:

I am really excited about this role. Probably like no other FM role before. Mostly because I could finally attempt a more realistic recreation of Cruyff's 3-4-3 Diamond tactic. Eventhough my previous tries in FM21 went pretty well, having a dedicated Wide CB (whom you could set to Attack duty!) would make for an interesting tactical situation.

 

I'm messing around with a similar Cruyffian 343 diamond midfield as you put in a recent article. Very interesting so far and working better at first go then the super tweaked versions you had to do in previous versions of FM. 

[04texag]

I think it was fitting that the very first time I used this, mind you without really training it, was SLB v Porto, with Porto running a 442. So perfect time to test the Cruyff theories. I love the data hub and analysts. Some tweaks are needed but this looks pretty great! Weigl at the HB connecting with everyone. 

 

[crusadertsar]

6 hours ago, 04texag said:

I'm messing around with a similar Cruyffian 343 diamond midfield as you put in a recent article. Very interesting so far and working better at first go then the super tweaked versions you had to do in previous versions of FM. 

Same! really liking the passing combos between my back three and half-back. But still trying to figure out how to set up the rest of the formation. 

[yellowforever]

I quite like the role so far. On (D) duty you get them acting how many teams across Europe these days use their wide CBs - in that they come wide and engage in possession. Messing around with (S) and (A) can have some interesting results when trying to create overloads, although I'm currently creating a Gasperini 5-2-2-1 with Atalanta on Beta and I find keeping them on (D) allows them to stay relatively safe and still get involved in build up. Maybe I'd be able to justify them on attack or support with a defensive pivot.

[04texag]

10 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Same! really liking the passing combos between my back three and half-back. But still trying to figure out how to set up the rest of the formation. 

I've had some really good results with the F9 up top, and two custom CM-S. I've gotten good off the ball movements. I sometimes Alex Grimaldo at the left CM slot, and change it to a Mez and let him naturally overlap and put some crosses in.

The AMC slot I am tweaking, as he's not getting involved enough in build up play. I've tried the Treq some, and it's worked pretty well at swapping spots with the F9 and been great at times, but he's not dropping enough in early build up. Perhaps a different player with comes deep to get ball would resolve that, but I don't think I have that player atm.

[04texag]

Oh ya, one other thing that has been beautiful, is the HB, he swaps positions to cover when any of the back three dribble forward, it's awesome. I've definitely been happy seeing some of the trademark movements that you can see in the Cruyff video that discusses this shape.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

I've had some really good results with the F9 up top, and two custom CM-S. I've gotten good off the ball movements. I sometimes Alex Grimaldo at the left CM slot, and change it to a Mez and let him naturally overlap and put some crosses in.

The AMC slot I am tweaking, as he's not getting involved enough in build up play. I've tried the Treq some, and it's worked pretty well at swapping spots with the F9 and been great at times, but he's not dropping enough in early build up. Perhaps a different player with comes deep to get ball would resolve that, but I don't think I have that player atm.

Beautiful! Very nice insights.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

Oh ya, one other thing that has been beautiful, is the HB, he swaps positions to cover when any of the back three dribble forward, it's awesome. I've definitely been happy seeing some of the trademark movements that you can see in the Cruyff video that discusses this shape.

The Half-back role has been improved immensely in this version. It's absolutely essential in this formation. And you need an especially creative player for it. Weigl is perfect. I use Davy Blind there in my Ajax test. While Tadic as a Shadow Striker seems to do the job in AMC.

[04texag]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

The Half-back role has been improved immensely in this version. It's absolutely essential in this formation. And you need an especially creative player for it. Weigl is perfect. I use Davy Blind there in my Ajax test. While Tadic as a Shadow Striker seems to do the job in AMC.

I tried to start up a test save with Ajax, but having to do the ENTIRE staff just to do some tactical testing was off-putting. I might do a proper save with them down the line but was a big ask for a short test.

[FM SmileFace]

I've been looking for a thread like this for a while, so this will be helpful for my own creations which I'm going to attempt to use at Newcastle once through the first season so it's interesting and helpful to see what other people are doing with the WCBs and 343 diamonds

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, 04texag said:

I've had some really good results with the F9 up top, and two custom CM-S. I've gotten good off the ball movements. I sometimes Alex Grimaldo at the left CM slot, and change it to a Mez and let him naturally overlap and put some crosses in.

The AMC slot I am tweaking, as he's not getting involved enough in build up play. I've tried the Treq some, and it's worked pretty well at swapping spots with the F9 and been great at times, but he's not dropping enough in early build up. Perhaps a different player with comes deep to get ball would resolve that, but I don't think I have that player atm.

Almost the same as mine, I use two box to box mids to make it even more unpredictable, but its almost the same setup, i used an AP(S) in that slot and it worked nicely. but either side were two attack duties. Up front I went with a DLF(A) so that they would be a bit more of holding up and getting others involved, though i did not use run at defence, instead i had dribble less, I wanted more off the ball movement vertically.

[RTHerringbone]

I've found WCBs to be great fun as I experiment and try to build a system which doesn't overuse the flawed bits of the Beta match engine.

I've got a hipsters dream of a back 5: 2 WCBs, a Libero and 2 IWBs.

An indirect perk of the system is that an extra body at the back at least feels like it gives you a bit more of a chance defending aerial balls into the box 

[bowieinspace]

 

ive been having a lot of success from this 3-4-3 variant. I’m using wide CB’s but more reserved roles on defend and support, with a half back on the side with the support duty. Passing options and build up play are really fantastic. I’ve never been a 3 at the back guy but this role has added a new dimension for me

[yellowforever]

2 hours ago, bowieinspace said:

 

ive been having a lot of success from this 3-4-3 variant. I’m using wide CB’s but more reserved roles on defend and support, with a half back on the side with the support duty. Passing options and build up play are really fantastic. I’ve never been a 3 at the back guy but this role has added a new dimension for me

Similiar shape to my Gasperini Atalanta tactic. WCB on Defend or support really helps possession based 3 back tactics.

[bowieinspace]

6 hours ago, yellowforever said:

Similiar shape to my Gasperini Atalanta tactic. WCB on Defend or support really helps possession based 3 back tactics.

Yeah I wouldn’t say this plays out as a possession tactic directly with these players, but I just wanted to create constant passing options and the back 3 with 2 dms in front in these roles does create a solid base of possession. It’s more of a hybrid where the defenders and dm’s play a possession game to invite a press, and then the ball gets quickly transitioned forwards to utilise the pace and direct dribbling of some of the attacking players. I can see how with the right players and instructions it would be perfect for an out and out possession system.

[Matt_1979]

Probs my worth pointing out that Wilder introduced the overlapping CB when playing against teams who parked the bus against his Sheff Utd team. 

May not work well if teams aren’t sitting back against you. 

[That There Phil]

22 hours ago, Matt_1979 said:

Probs my worth pointing out that Wilder introduced the overlapping CB when playing against teams who parked the bus against his Sheff Utd team. 

May not work well if teams aren’t sitting back against you. 

They were still doing plenty of overlapping in both seasons in the Championship and their first Premier league season when they finished 9th, and not too many teams were sitting back against them during that period!

[Cult of Football Manager]

My first attempt in FM 22.

It's a replication from real life based on a 3-5-2 a colleague and myself theorized together and liked to play. 

It was then tweaked to adapt to the match engine a little more. The first 2 games were poor draws to Norwich and Watford. 

I have most of this season recorded as it was recorded to be my first series uploaded on my YouTube channel.

I found WCB on Attack duty with my set up ( it was quite different at the start ) left me too vulnerable to the counter attack and the benefit didn't outweigh the cost. Support seemed to achieve much more of what I wanted especially if the WCB has get forward whenever possible it seemed.

 

I just thought I'd share what I did and how I got success with this set up in case this helps others trying to combine roles and duties to make the WCB work for them. 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew Marines]

Il 29/9/2021 in 22:51 , Lesterfan_Cambiasso ha scritto:

Its still a pretty rare role id say

Verona and Atalanta use that role for example.

Il 30/9/2021 in 20:55 , De Nile ha scritto:

We need a wide forward so the forward actually stays up front at all times and bombs down the flanks. Can play them in the striker position, basically FR and FL position.

Raumdeuter actually do that. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Andrew Marines

[LPQR]

On 29/10/2021 at 13:01, bowieinspace said:

 

ive been having a lot of success from this 3-4-3 variant. I’m using wide CB’s but more reserved roles on defend and support, with a half back on the side with the support duty. Passing options and build up play are really fantastic. I’ve never been a 3 at the back guy but this role has added a new dimension for me

yess   that is what i like to see, mind posting it here - just for everyone else there that is interested in this type of formation?

[bowieinspace]

9 hours ago, LPQR said:

yess   that is what i like to see, mind posting it here - just for everyone else there that is interested in this type of formation?

Ah wow cool I will get involved on this thread for sure - a lot of similarities between what we have tried to do! I had a fantastic first season with this tactic but the second season has proven a little trickier - leaking goals from low xG and not converting as well either...could just be player form or regression to mean after first season - it's not terrible by any means just not quite as strong. Starting to consider instruction adjustments to find a spark

[Marinho]

@04texag

 

Have you considered dropping the CAM into the CM as part of a 3 man line and then give him very offensive minded role/instructions ?

[04texag]

12 minutes ago, Marinho said:

@04texag

 

Have you considered dropping the CAM into the CM as part of a 3 man line and then give him very offensive minded role/instructions ?

I had not considered that. It honestly plays pretty well as is. I like the Treq role in that AMC spot, and he will switch up with the F9 above him. It could be interesting to try though with a CM-A, as you can customize that quite a bit with PIs.

[Marinho]

1 hour ago, 04texag said:

I had not considered that. It honestly plays pretty well as is. I like the Treq role in that AMC spot, and he will switch up with the F9 above him. It could be interesting to try though with a CM-A, as you can customize that quite a bit with PIs.

Sure, if it's not broken there is little need to fix it  Was just refering to your comment about him not being involved enough in build up.

[De Nile]

On 03/11/2021 at 09:19, Andrew Marines said:

Raumdeuter actually do that. 

Not really it's the highest position in the flanks but it does move back to defend. Besides there is a whole thread that talks about what I am saying.

[fraudiola]

On 26/10/2021 at 22:17, 鹅爵爷 said:

After 5 hours play, still I have not a clear idea how WCB works with wingbacks, especially in a 523 formation with both wingers and wingbacks.

The underlap/overlap with wingback/widemidfield is vague, too.

My impression is that if I set two WCB roles, only one will go forward at the same time the other will must stay in CB line.

 

 

pair him with an IWB that provides center cover while the WCB goes round the outside. 

 

this is what i used in my record breaking 107 pts serie a win. another variation is switching Treq to RMD for more penetration which allows CM/D to switch to CM/S which would otherwise interfere with Treq and the left WCB to defend duty. IWB on support becomes a DM when on offense to provide cover for opposition clearances and winning them back to apply a sustained offense, preferably someone with good passing and vision to recycle possession, i've tried IWB on D in certain games which ends up as a 3 ATB on offense. winger has hugs line to pull opposition fullback aside to create space for the on coming Mez (2nd top scorer) who has gets forward and into opposition area. 

 

 

a good WCB on attack played on his opposite foot will make runs towards the inside 

 

 

WCB/A will get provide option for a cut back or cross if he gets the overlap

 

 

 

LB too busy marking my winger while my Mez makes an open run into the box

 

same but with the tactic inverted. Wingers are so good at creating space for Mez

 

 

 

[JoOSTAR]

7 hours ago, fraudiola said:

pair him with an IWB that provides center cover while the WCB goes round the outside. 

 

this is what i used in my record breaking 107 pts serie a win. another variation is switching Treq to RMD for more penetration which allows CM/D to switch to CM/S which would otherwise interfere with Treq and the left WCB to defend duty. IWB on support becomes a DM when on offense to provide cover for opposition clearances and winning them back to apply a sustained offense, preferably someone with good passing and vision to recycle possession, i've tried IWB on D in certain games which ends up as a 3 ATB on offense. winger has hugs line to pull opposition fullback aside to create space for the on coming Mez (2nd top scorer) who has gets forward and into opposition area. 

 

 

a good WCB on attack played on his opposite foot will make runs towards the inside 

 

 

WCB/A will get provide option for a cut back or cross if he gets the overlap

 

 

 

LB too busy marking my winger while my Mez makes an open run into the box

 

same but with the tactic inverted. Wingers are so good at creating space for Mez

 

 

 

Any specific Player Instructions you are using?

[WhyMe]

as a side note, I've been testing something similar to your alternative version and I find that the RMD doesn't combine terribly well with the AF-a.  However, if you switch the AF to a CF-a then you get a lot of lovely combinations  between the CF-a and RMD with both being a goal threat

[fraudiola]

25 minutes ago, WhyMe said:

as a side note, I've been testing something similar to your alternative version and I find that the RMD doesn't combine terribly well with the AF-a.  However, if you switch the AF to a CF-a then you get a lot of lovely combinations  between the CF-a and RMD with both being a goal threat

i had a CF in the beginning but had trouble beating park the bus sides and AF solved the issue. 

 

31 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

Any specific Player Instructions you are using?

stay wider on WB and hold position on WCB/S