*Official* Football Manager 2022 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread

[Mars_Blackmon]

17 minutes ago, backpocket said:

Teams with lower mentalities being able to keep the ball forever really needs to be fixed, or it'll just be FM 20 all over again.

Was doing a Bayern test save and Arminia Bielefeld, a team that finished 15th last season (out of 18 teams), and a relegation contender this year is 2nd in possession in my Bundesliga save.

Also note that Bayern and Dortmund can't even reach 50%, because every team is playing keep ball against them when they have possession.

To get an idea of how bad they pass the ball between themselves, these are the stats from a match where Bayern beat Arminia 9-0. Notice how Arminia has a 94% pass completion rate and nearly 600 completed passes and all that while being 1 man down since the 7th minute.

Despite the result, they're actually doing really well in the league, and are currently 7th. This really gives me shades of FM20 where a defensive team like Brighton always finishes in the top 6-8 each season thanks to endless ball possession.

Think I'll wait for the update before playing again and hope this will be patched up. There are a lot of good things in FM 22, but a defensive opponent having 600 passes between their backline is really sad.

Yea this problem be around for a few versions, its amplified this year because of the new animations. Before players would hoof the ball but now they are able to turn around and chose back passes to defenders more efficiently. Overall, AI teams need to take more risks. The counter attack is non existent. 

[craigcwwe]

30 minutes ago, backpocket said:

Teams with lower mentalities being able to keep the ball forever really needs to be fixed, or it'll just be FM 20 all over again.

Was doing a Bayern test save and Arminia Bielefeld, a team that finished 15th last season (out of 18 teams), and a relegation contender this year is 2nd in possession in my Bundesliga save.

Also note that Bayern and Dortmund can't even reach 50%, because every team is playing keep ball against them when they have possession.

To get an idea of how bad they pass the ball between themselves, these are the stats from a match where Bayern beat Arminia 9-0. Notice how Arminia has a 94% pass completion rate and nearly 600 completed passes and all that while being 1 man down since the 7th minute.

Despite the result, they're actually doing really well in the league, and are currently 7th. This really gives me shades of FM20 where a defensive team like Brighton always finishes in the top 6-8 each season thanks to endless ball possession.

Think I'll wait for the update before playing again and hope this will be patched up. There are a lot of good things in FM 22, but a defensive opponent having 600 passes between their backline is really sad.

Definitely share the file with SI to give them more data etc to look into.  

[Junkhead]

23 minutes ago, hasdgfas said:

Yep. Cleared the cache, reloaded the skin, restarted the game. They still don't want to pop in.

Weird. Were they appearing before the update?

[hasdgfas]

11 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Weird. Were they appearing before the update?

Yep. I was seeing them all, downloaded the update, and now suddenly they refuse to appear. My graphics folder is a symbolic link instead of being an actual folder, but I've used it like that for the last several FMs with no issues. I think I'll take it to the Bug Tracker at this point. - I had to clear cache AND preferences

Edited October 27, 2021 by hasdgfas

[IrrelevantLion]

Game seems to run a lot slower.

[IrrelevantLion]

26 minutes ago, CalumF said:

Quick ones from me.

Doesn't matter what I try my possession stats are shocking. Something that others have said and should be looked at. 

My centre backs get shockingly low match ratings. Ben White will get clean sheets and never gets over a 7. Anyone else notice low match ratings for their centre backs?

Anyone scoring many goals from corners? I'm not getting any. 

Ben White is averaging about 6.5-6.4 for me at the minute. Rob Holding doing much better. Might just be him.

[backpocket]

14 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Definitely share the file with SI to give them more data etc to look into.  

Will do. Hope this gets patched.

[The Bamster]

Thanks for the reply. 

Judging from back pocket post it looks like it's an issue with the better itself, I have a good range of formations including 433, 4312 and 4132 none of them seem to offer effective ball winning against small teams unless i put on tackle harder and this is with personal instruction set for dealing with oposition . I really only expect to have to put hard tackling on against more technically gifted sides due to their superior ability to hold onto the ball. As back pocket is highlighting tackling/winning the ball back against lower league/low mentality sides is an issue with the beta. 

[HUNT3R]

PLEASE, everyone - any issues, report it in the bugs forum. The feedback thread is for general feedback. Thanks.

[themadsheep2001]

If you're having issues with central play when reporting it, would be useful to upload your tactics as well to the tracker. Would be interesting to see what people are doing. I'm not saying its not an issue, I'm just not seeing it through the middle of the pitch. Are certain set ups exacerbating any issues perhaps

[CharlieTZR]

34 minutes ago, CalumF said:

 

Doesn't matter what I try my possession stats are shocking. Something that others have said and should be looked at. 

My centre backs get shockingly low match ratings. Ben White will get clean sheets and never gets over a 7. Anyone else notice low match ratings for their centre backs?

 

Same here, also counter attack is non existent

[Domoboy23]

The text at the bottom, does this mean this goal will result in a mistake leading to goal in his stats?

All my inside forward did (The one nearest the ball) was track back and try and block the cross. McNamara carried it from the halfway line. There was no interception to be made!

Edited October 27, 2021 by Domoboy23

[Freakiie]

CBs are definitely capable of good ratings, but they need to be involved in play. I guess as a bigger club your CDs will often just not see any action, so no chances to get ratings. Here's the stats on my BPD, yeah in 2 of those he scored goals, but there's plenty 7+ performances without goals. On the other hand, in the game against Fortuna Sittard the super passive AI showed up, as mentioned in this thread before and they hoarded the ball at the back the entire game. Result was that they had 63% possession and my defenders basically had no reason to even be on the pitch, so his rating was really poor. Meanwhile, away against Feyenoord, who were the favorites he got a 7.7 in a 2-0 loss, which is no surprise if you look at how active he was. Also goes to show that the AI has the same struggles regarding passive teams, I didn't manage to create anything that game (I tried, but even on attacking mentality I accomplished nothing), yet my BPD had 92 attempted passes that game and for once my team actually had more possession.

[GOODNAME]

Glad to hear that in the full release they will do some tweaks in the ME. 

[DB Wit]

26 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If you're having issues with central play when reporting it, would be useful to upload your tactics as well to the tracker. Would be interesting to see what people are doing. I'm not saying its not an issue, I'm just not seeing it through the middle of the pitch. Are certain set ups exacerbating any issues perhaps

Perhaps, but it would be weird for 442 narrow formations and wide expansive 433s/343s with wide players cutting inside to have the same issue (these are the formations that i've seen). It could be related with the IW/IF issues but then teams without wide players wouldn't be having the same issue. It certainly doesn't look like a tactics issue.

Something that has disappeared and has been very noticeable is build up in open play (and not just when the ball started from a throw in), when players would pass it around the edge of the box looking for an opening. That side of the game disappearing can't be put on tactical choices alone and the data provided in the bug tracker does suggest a reoccurring issue within the actual ME.

Since tone can sometimes be hard to discern in written text, I'm just calmly pointing out to the mod that it is extremely unlikely for this issue to be just a tactical mistake by us players ahah

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, DB Wit said:

Perhaps, but it would be weird for 442 narrow formations and wide expansive 433s/343s with wide players cutting inside to have the same issue (these are the formations that i've seen). It could be related with the IW/IF issues but then teams without wide players wouldn't be having the same issue. It certainly doesn't look like a tactics issue.

Something that has disappeared and has been very noticeable is build up in open play (and not just when the ball started from a throw in), when players would pass it around the edge of the box looking for an opening. That side of the game disappearing can't be put on tactical choices alone and the data provided in the bug tracker does suggest a reoccurring issue within the actual ME.

Since tone can sometimes be hard to discern in written text, I'm just calmly pointing out to the mod that it is extremely unlikely for this issue to be just a tactical mistake by us players ahah

I'm playing both a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 and cutting teams to shreds through the middle as well as the flank. So getting people to show how they are playing is highly relevant because it doesn't seem to be universal

[zgiorgos10]

16 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

CBs are definitely capable of good ratings, but they need to be involved in play. I guess as a bigger club your CDs will often just not see any action, so no chances to get ratings. Here's the stats on my BPD, yeah in 2 of those he scored goals, but there's plenty 7+ performances without goals. On the other hand, in the game against Fortuna Sittard the super passive AI showed up, as mentioned in this thread before and they hoarded the ball at the back the entire game. Result was that they had 63% possession and my defenders basically had no reason to even be on the pitch, so his rating was really poor. Meanwhile, away against Feyenoord, who were the favorites he got a 7.7 in a 2-0 loss, which is no surprise if you look at how active he was. Also goes to show that the AI has the same struggles regarding passive teams, I didn't manage to create anything that game (I tried, but even on attacking mentality I accomplished nothing), yet my BPD had 92 attempted passes that game and for once my team actually had more possession.

I confirm. Same problem here. 

[Domoboy23]

I wish you could target players again in the media of your own choosing like you could back in the day! 

[NFLFM]

5 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

There's also millions more calculations per second goes into the FM match engine, marrying that up with modern FIFA style graphics would alienate about 80% of the player base. Whilst I do think the graphics COULD be improved, it's a tricky balancing act, as SI have always wanted to make the game as accessible to as many people as possible. 

This is wrong in my opinion 

This is just an excuse « accessible to as many people as possible »

Acting like they can’t optimize a game and give more options to choose the graphic level that fit your pc characteristics

 

[mannyhams]

In scouting meeting 1 week before transfer deadline... and my scouts magically pull like 15 amazing candidates out of thin air, 100% scouted.

How/Why is this happening so late in the process?? I've already done my shopping 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[janrzm]

FYI - The Football Manager show on The Athletic, yesterday edition, Nic Madden and CJ Ramson discussing some of the finer points of the changes in this years edition of the game. Worth a listen IMO. 

[DB Wit]

22 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm playing both a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3 and cutting teams to shreds through the middle as well as the flank. So getting people to show how they are playing is highly relevant because it doesn't seem to be universal

I mean, some of the most viewed issues with the ME are central play reports and there has been plenty of people complaining and receiving upvotes on this forum. Even if it isn't "universal", it does seem like a pretty common issue and one that is most apparent to the people playing through many games in a row seeing as patterns become more recognizable and predictable.

4-3-3 certainly has an issue, after half a season of play time there is definitely one. Mine was experimented on last year with the express objective of opening space in the middle by stretching out opposition and have plays go through there even if they played a low block. It didn't make use of a meta, it followed the same principles of total football. What I have witnessed through the middle is players, on a counter or immediately after regaining possession, playing long through balls, maybe playing one short pass before that. This isn't the central play that was there in FM21 and everyone applauded, it feels more like what he had in the FM19-20. Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly.

Maybe your tactic isn't built for that/isn't what you look for in your 4-3-3, but for those of us who finally got to build Total Football teams in FM21, it is a bit worrying for that approach to be taken away from the game.

PS: Ppl should definitely show their tactics in the bug reports regardless to help the developers.

Edited October 27, 2021 by DB Wit

[fc.cadoni]

12 minutes ago, janrzm said:

FYI - The Football Manager show on The Athletic, yesterday edition, Nic Madden and CJ Ramson discussing some of the finer points of the changes in this years edition of the game. Worth a listen IMO. 

Can you send me a link?

Thanks!

[FrazT]

@NFLFM  I have removed part of your post above- those kinds of accusations are unacceptable.  Please ensure that you read and understand the relevant forum house rules before posting again

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/509042-providing-feedback-and-engaging-with-others/

 

[baskor]

The new 3D animation of player scoring in FM2022 is really awesome!

See the video in below link (Calhanoglu scoring vs Liverpool, at 9:15):

 

At least some of my wishes in realistic, real-life football 3D animation in new FM game is granted.

Please add more realistic 3D animation on dribbling (like Lionel Messi), tackling (like Alessandro Nesta and Paolo Maldini), body collision, jumping, pushing an opponent, pulling opponent shirt, defending, and much more.

Also don't forget to add various haircut in 3D match engine.

Thank you SI.

Edited October 27, 2021 by baskor

[janrzm]

9 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Can you send me a link?

Thanks!

https://theathletic.com/podcast/237-the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/

It's on other platforms so potentially anywhere you get your podcasts, just type in Football Manager Show. You'll just have to listen to ads if you aren't an Athletic Subscriber. Still worth while.

[fc.cadoni]

5 minutes ago, janrzm said:

https://theathletic.com/podcast/237-the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/

It's on other platforms so potentially anywhere you get your podcasts, just type in Football Manager Show. You'll just have to listen to ads if you aren't an Athletic Subscriber. Still worth while.

Thank you!

[Domoboy23]

Does anyone know how to send my data analysts out on assignments?

[Platinum]

33 minutes ago, DB Wit said:

I mean, some of the most viewed issues with the ME are central play reports and there has been plenty of people complaining and receiving upvotes on this forum. Even if it isn't "universal", it does seem like a pretty common issue and one that is most apparent to the people playing through many games in a row seeing as patterns become more recognizable and predictable.

4-3-3 certainly has an issue, after half a season of play time there is definitely one. Mine was experimented on last year with the express objective of opening space in the middle by stretching out opposition and have plays go through there even if they played a low block. It didn't make use of a meta, it followed the same principles of total football. What I have witnessed through the middle is players, on a counter or immediately after regaining possession, playing long through balls, maybe playing one short pass before that. This isn't the central play that was there in FM21 and everyone applauded, it feels more like what he had in the FM19-20. Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly.

Maybe your tactic isn't built for that/isn't what you look for in your 4-3-3, but for those of us who finally got to build Total Football teams in FM21, it is a bit worrying for that approach to be taken away from the game.

PS: Ppl should definitely show their tactics in the bug reports regardless to help the developers.

What type of player roles do you have in your 4-3-3 as I have definitely had this " Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly."

[themadsheep2001]

39 minutes ago, DB Wit said:

I mean, some of the most viewed issues with the ME are central play reports and there has been plenty of people complaining and receiving upvotes on this forum. Even if it isn't "universal", it does seem like a pretty common issue and one that is most apparent to the people playing through many games in a row seeing as patterns become more recognizable and predictable.

4-3-3 certainly has an issue, after half a season of play time there is definitely one. Mine was experimented on last year with the express objective of opening space in the middle by stretching out opposition and have plays go through there even if they played a low block. It didn't make use of a meta, it followed the same principles of total football. What I have witnessed through the middle is players, on a counter or immediately after regaining possession, playing long through balls, maybe playing one short pass before that. This isn't the central play that was there in FM21 and everyone applauded, it feels more like what he had in the FM19-20. Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly.

Maybe your tactic isn't built for that/isn't what you look for in your 4-3-3, but for those of us who finally got to build Total Football teams in FM21, it is a bit worrying for that approach to be taken away from the game.

PS: Ppl should definitely show their tactics in the bug reports regardless to help the developers.

I'm playing short, passing football, built on passing through blocks. I'm seeing my team play through said blocks. I can't say I'm seeing those issues, so again, would be good to provide some tactical context to the ME team for those who are

[DB Wit]

6 minutes ago, Platinum said:

What type of player roles do you have in your 4-3-3 as I have definitely had this " Poking and prodding at the edge of the box from a build up starting at the back is something that I haven't witnessed even one single time, be it against low block teams or teams that faced me earnestly."

 

The right WB is sometimes on Atk. The CM in FM21 used to be a Mezzalla but seeing as I saw them running towards the corner flag waaaaay too much, I changed them to a CM.

[janrzm]

17 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Does anyone know how to send my data analysts out on assignments?

Aren't data analysts static in that their role is typically desk based irl?

Edited October 27, 2021 by janrzm

[fc.cadoni]

9 minutes ago, DB Wit said:

 

The right WB is sometimes on Atk. The CM in FM21 used to be a Mezzalla but seeing as I saw them running towards the corner flag waaaaay too much, I changed them to a CM.

- Wide with Short Passing?

- Any reason to ask your defenders to receive the ball quickly - then play direct-counter attack with short pass (in possession)?

There is a lot of conflict TI here.

- Balanced Mentality with only 2 players attacking the AI. OK.

Read again instructions-descriptions (players and team)

Edited October 27, 2021 by fc.cadoni

[DB Wit]

2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm playing short, passing football, built on passing through blocks. I'm seeing my team play through said blocks. 

Great to hear, I'm not, neither are a lot of other people. The current tactic was posted above per another commentor' request. Wide to stretch play, short passing, balanced mentality and a lot of support roles so that the players mentality didn't incentivise tons of ambitious passes. Built very much so for building up play. (The reason for the CM not being a Mez that would be ideal for the system is explained in that post).

[DB Wit]

4 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

- Wide with Short Passing?

- Any reason to ask your defenders to receive the ball quickly - then play direct-counter attack with short pass (in possession)?

There is a lot of conflict TI here. 

Distribute quickly wasn't turned on for the entire save, I have a game against Porto next and I don't want to waist a chance to score on a counter.

Yes, short passing with wide. Try it in FM 21 and read up on Total Football (not being passive aggressive, I was surprised too and it translated very well to the game). Playing wide makes use of the full extent of the pitch and stretches opposition making it easier to pass, short passing encourages passing to the players closer to the one in possession.

Edited October 27, 2021 by DB Wit

[themadsheep2001]

What are the PIs of the midfield trio, because on the surface, I'm wondering who is supposed to be taking responsibility for playing passes through the line in short support to a striker most concerned with getting behind a defence. 

[Stybb]

Scout reports no longer showing player attributes makes the user experience much more laborious a process to get to the information I actually care about.

[Freakiie]

Sooooooooo, having played almost half a season, after holidaying far into the future, time for some of my thoughts on FM22!

General: I've been playing a strikerless narrow 4-3-3, the same formation I was messing around with at the end of FM21 as I wanted to try something different. Now I am seeing some central play from this, so unlike a lot of others I'm not overly worried in that aspect (or perhaps I just don't expect it to happen as others think it should). What I have noticed though is that my Shadow Strikers are nowhere near as aggressive as they are in FM21. For a supposedly Very Attacking mentality role they don't feel like it. In fact, it's my MEZ(Su) that is supposed to play behind them that regularly ends up leading the line for me. Now, that's nice in the sense that my CMs are actually involved in play, something that didn't happen all that often in FM21, but it feels like it comes at the expense of my supposed goal scorers being incredibly passive and thus someone else having to make that move. Mind you, my Mezzala doesn't even have any PPMs that would encourage this and is supposedly 2 mentality stages lower than my Shadow Strikers.

Counters: So, here is another aspect where my Shadow Strikers just feel neutered compared to FM21. In FM21 if I won the ball after a set piece they would bomb forwards, going for a counter. FM22? Yeah, lets not, that sounds like effort. In general though, counters seem to not exist, mainly due to incredibly poor off the ball movement in my experience. On set pieces I use the 1 guy edge of area/1 guy up front combo and I've regularly gotten potential counters, but the guy up front just runs out wide, to the same side my guy with the ball is and as a result completely kills of the chance of a counter as he removes himself from the equation. Meanwhile, my guy further back runs down the field with the ball by himself, without any of my players moving forward with any urgency, despite having counters on, a positive mentality and various duties that definitely should be rushing forwards.

Crosses: Yeah, enough comments about these. Not sure if the crossing part itself is truly OP, but the aerial defending is definitely lacking. Seeing small players with poor heading regularly win aerial duels while being marked by 2 taller guys just doesn't feel right.

Deadline day: Well, I've had one so far. Being in the future a lot of random stuff was floating around, so my agent offers were like 95% random 18 year olds from all over the world, that I had pretty much no info whatsoever on. Hopefully this gets a bit better as I develop the club and get more scouting knowledge. Endlessly being offered crappy 18 year olds you have no information on at all is pretty pointless. Otherwise, it's a pretty neat feature all around.

Newgens: I've said it before, but really, why is the AF without scoring still a thing?! A lot of the same old hyper focused players still floating around, but admittedly it's not like I've had that much to look at yet. One thing I've noticed so far is that midfielders that actually can defend seem to be quite a bit more common, which is definitely a positive. 

PPMs: They're... still annoying. So far they seem a bit less annoying than in FM21, but still annoying. Wish the system as a whole would just get a major overhaul or at least PPMs being made easier to remove, instead of the current "Oh but he has 1 attribute that really, really suits this PPM, so he'll never get rid off it!", even if that PPM does not fit his main role at all.

Bugs: Bumping into stuff like throw in instructions still being mostly ignored or training instructions randomly being overwritten because you decided to play a player in a different position one game is not great.

There's definitely been some improvements to the ME, with the new animations and stuff like players out wide actually playing proper cut backs, but at the same time it definitely gained some major issues as well.

[zyfon5]

17 minutes ago, DB Wit said:

 

The right WB is sometimes on Atk. The CM in FM21 used to be a Mezzalla but seeing as I saw them running towards the corner flag waaaaay too much, I changed them to a CM.

How is there any central play when there is no players ready to receive the pass up front? The advanced forward rarely involve himself in the build up and make himself available for a pass. The two inverted wingers will stick to the wide areas until the ball progressed into the final third. The BBM and CM(su) are not aggressive roles in midfield either. So back to the question who do you want the players to pass the ball to up front from the central areas?

[TheArsenal63]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

If you're having issues with central play when reporting it, would be useful to upload your tactics as well to the tracker. Would be interesting to see what people are doing. I'm not saying its not an issue, I'm just not seeing it through the middle of the pitch. Are certain set ups exacerbating any issues perhaps

Use vertical tiki taka default setup in FM21, then compare it with FM22. Use any tactic that encourages vertical runs through middle as well as through balls, compare FM21 and FM22, you will see the big difference. Should be very obvious what's happening, passes are magnetically played outwide, players will dribble outwide instead of coming inside even when told to. Players make less vertical central runs from deeper positions. I've tried this with a championship team as well as Arsenal. Same thing, i've played thousands of hours of this game and I've become very good at recognizing patterns in the ME, this ME has similar issues to FM20, crosses overpowered, less runs from central deep areas which then leads to less creativity.

It's very easy to see using the datahub as well, there's been at least 2 threads created in the Bug Tracker that show comparisons between FM21 and FM22 and central play has been neutered.

I asked a user on here, who said he sees good central runs and passes all the time, to provide his tactics, still waiting on that. I'll ask you the same thing, provide your tactics and I will genuinely check it out and see if I'm misjudging the ME.

[JordanBlackpoolFC]

6 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Do you have a save pre club budget confirmation?

Can you confirm how much money the club has at this point

When you begin pre-season can you confirm a) how much the club has b) what amount this changed (up or down c) what sort of chairman you have

Unfortunately I don't have a save pre-budget as I presumed it would kind of sort itself out and I would be given the correct budget and wages further down the line and before I knew it, it was almost the first game of the season

The club currently has 10m in the bank as of 12th august but this is increasing very rapidly. At the start of pre-season I believe the balance sheet was around 2m.

[DB Wit]

41 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

What are the PIs of the midfield trio, because on the surface, I'm wondering who is supposed to be taking responsibility for playing passes through the line in short support to a striker most concerned with getting behind a defence. 

 

34 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

How is there any central play when there is no players ready to receive the pass up front? The advanced forward rarely involve himself in the build up and make himself available for a pass. The two inverted wingers will stick to the wide areas until the ball progressed into the final third. The BBM and CM(su) are not aggressive roles in midfield either. So back to the question who do you want the players to pass the ball to up front from the central areas?

The CM on Su has takes more risks. As I have said previously, the Mez on Atk would be ideal and and even did penetrative runs, but in FM22 they just dribbled to the corner flag. The AP positions himself automatically between the Mid line and oposition Def and even with roams from position they don't align with the other midfielder to create a passing lane. DLP doesn't have the fluidity in movement to play in the midfield that i want. RPM would fit on paper but just doesn't seem to perform, nor do I have a player with attributes to play it. Ence CM (Su) (sometimes Atk) with takes more risks and (sometimes) Move into channels. When you are controlling the game they and the BBM sit on the edge of the box as needed.

 

The lack of an offensive midf seemed weird? Yeah, because I had to try emulate what i wanted from the CM(Su)

There is an AF, you know what they do in this tactic? They push the backline back to create space for the Midfielders to operate, once again, Mez would be ideal but they aren't viable right now, so yeah, I had to change it. And as a side note, though less than other roles, they are capable of some support play, an AF doesn't behave like a Poacher.

All that being said, I'm not an amateur, I built this tactic fully aware of what the roles and instructions do. There is a reason behind everything I did here, there are limitations due to issues in the ME to which I had to adapt and if you think that there's no way this works... i literally spent the entirety of FM21 experimenting with this tactic and its variations and am fully aware of how it's supposed to operate, it's not my fault that the IW/IF refuse to cut in. I could use a Treq instead of a IW, drop the added instructions on the CM and play like that as that is one of the variations mentioned but unfortunately I don't have a world class player that fits the role, go figure.

 

And yes even a BBM and CM do/did plenty of penetrative passes in this tactic so long as they had the attributes to do so, which in this case, for this league, they have.

People aren't just pointing these issues for the sake of being difficult...

Edited October 27, 2021 by DB Wit

[TheArsenal63]

The center play isn't even the biggest issue.

As some have already reported on the Bug tracker, there is a huge issue with corners. I was literally scoring from corners every game. It's actually amazing this made it past QA. This is the default routine mind you.

Penalties every other game, cut backs didn't exist in FM21 but now it seems the only type of cross the wingers know how to execute.

CB passing between themselves endlessly like they are prime Barca players.

I've been asking this question for the past few releases, does SI actually watch the ME? I can't fathom how some of these issues even make it out into Alpha let alone beta.

Been playing FM21 again, I don't imagine the ME sees any significant change till March and even that's being hopeful. The last time it was this bad, they skipped a whole game and left their customers with a broken game for a year.

I expect the same here. It's entirely possible that they actually don't see any problems here with the ME, which to me is an even bigger problem. Wish they had competition,

[Piperita]

Two short videos about central play when it works:

I like the general movement here, especially from the scorer Haberer. He starts from the far-right half-space and aggressively cuts inside, overlapping the player on the ball and running between the players in the opponent's backline. I also like how another player simultaneously runs towards the other space between the backline, making it hard for the defenders to double up on the recipient.

Here the overload on the right half-space worked quite well, especially as my DMd Eggestein helped by moving laterally to that side as well. The opposition was unsure how to act against that as seen when one defender made an error of judgement in pressing. He first ran against the deeper Eggestein who passed to Höler who in turn quickly passed back to the centre, catching the opposition out of place which resulted in a beautiful through ball through the hole left.

This is exactly what I want to see from my players when opportunities arise. While there is more wide play than in 21, a lot of it are cutbacks that give us a whole new dimension of options and there are still these gems of plays through the middle. Towards the end of the season when partnerships had developed and the system had been worked in, I was quite happy with what I saw in big games from this engine in open plays. During my next run I'll try to play more early friendlies or to start more simply with instructions and grow with the team -- It took quite some time until the team got it going and where it was not ready/willing to solve things technically [which, to be fair, should be expected of Freiburg].

Some minor tweaking maybe and a big nerf to set pieces, and I'm actually quite happy until the winter when I'm itching for something new.

I hope the file size of ~900kb combined is still okay; I couldn't find a guideline about what is okay and I found it hard to compress it further]

[themadsheep2001]

@Piperita where did you create your gifs, have a a couple of examples just end of my last game to upload, but my gifmaker current makes them at massive file sizes

[zyfon5]

55 minutes ago, DB Wit said:

 

The CM on Su has takes more risks. As I have said previously, the Mez on Atk would be ideal and and even did penetrative runs, but in FM22 they just dribbled to the corner flag. The AP positions himself automatically between the Mid line and oposition Def and even with roams from position they don't align with the other midfielder to create a passing lane. DLP doesn't have the fluidity in movement to play in the midfield that i want. RPM would fit on paper but just doesn't seem to perform, nor do I have a player with attributes to play it. Ence CM (Su) (sometimes Atk) with takes more risks and (sometimes) Move into channels. When you are controlling the game they and the BBM sit on the edge of the box as needed.

 

The lack of an offensive midf seemed weird? Yeah, because I had to try emulate what i wanted from the CM(Su)

There is an AF, you know what they do in this tactic? They push the backline back to create space for the Midfielders to operate, once again, Mez would be ideal but they aren't viable right now, so yeah, I had to change it. And as a side note, though less than other roles, they are capable of some support play, an AF doesn't behave like a Poacher.

All that being said, I'm not an amateur, I built this tactic fully aware of what the roles and instructions do. There is a reason behind everything I did here, there are limitations due to issues in the ME to which I had to adapt and if you think that there's no way this works... i literally spent the entirety of FM21 experimenting with this tactic and its variations and am fully aware of how it's supposed to operate, it's not my fault that the IW/IF refuse to cut in. I could use a Treq instead of a IW, drop the added instructions on the CM and play like that as that is one of the variations mentioned but unfortunately I don't have a world class player that fits the role, go figure.

 

And yes even a BBM and CM do/did plenty of penetrative passes in this tactic so long as they had the attributes to do so, which in this case, for this league, they have.

People aren't just pointing these issues for the sake of being difficult...

Then again it is not an ideal set up for central play. Instead it is the perfect set up for wing play. And I have seen these types of tactical set up multiple times with players that complain about lack of central play when I have no problem getting through balls as my primary assist type. It is like complaining your long passes cannot find your striker when you are playing strikerless. Try changing the advanced forward to a deep lying forward (a) and see if you get better results. Also since you mentioned that players constantly run wide with the ball why not experiment with inverted wing backs since you will always have at least one player maintaining the width? They are an easy way to create central overloads. The tactic that I mentioned with through balls as primary assist type uses an inverted wing back.

Edited October 28, 2021 by zyfon5

[Piperita]

13 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

@Piperita where did you create your gifs, have a a couple of examples just end of my last game to upload, but my gifmaker current makes them at massive file sizes

I first created a video with the build-in tool from Win10 (Window-key + G) which resulted in a massive mp4 file, even for short snippets.

Then I turned it into a gif and went on compression sprees until it was between 2 and 4 MB. I can't say right now which tool I used for that as I am off my laptop now, unfortunately. 

But the biggest reductor: Uploading the gif to gfycat (I first wanted to link the files due to size) and downloading the resulting mp4 which cuts the size a good 70% to 80% more without the cutbacks of some more aggressive methods.

I need to see if a regular conversion back also results in those rates or if that side uses some clever scripts for that. A simple mp4->gif->mp4 would definitely be easier ^^

Edited October 28, 2021 by Piperita
Added linebreak

[TheArsenal63]

On the rare occasion that my tactic achieves a central pass, the player decides to not take the opportunity and guess what, that's right, passes to a player who dribbles wide and THEN we get to score from it :

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by TheArsenal63

[themadsheep2001]

 

A couple from the end of my last game playing 4-3-3-  above we worked our way around the pitch, only for Ronaldo to absolutely spoon it over the bar.

Below, with the centre back following Ronaldo dropping deep, Fernandes makes the run in behind, and Pogba plays the pass.

Both slightly different to what I get in a 4-2-3-1, partly because with that formation I will always have a 10 in the golden zone, which makes those central passes easier than a 4-3-3, because I can try and get in behind more without getting quite so disconnected. in a 4-3-3, you need to manufacture a bit more space, and manipulate defences more

[DB Wit]

9 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Then again it is not an ideal set up for central play. Instead it is the perfect set up for wing play. And I have seen these types of tactical set up multiple times with players that complain about lack of central play when I have no problem getting through balls as my primary assist type. It is like complaining your long passes cannot find your striker when you are playing strikerless. Try changing the advanced forward to a deep lying forward (a) and see if you get better results. Also since you mentioned that players constantly run wide with the ball why not experiment with inverted wing backs since you will always have at least one player maintaining the width? They are an easy way to create central overloads. The tactic that I mentioned with through balls as primary assist type uses an inverted wing back.

I have played with a DLF (a) at the start of the season seeing has I had players that fitted that (to tell you the truth the AF was an adaptation I had made in a previous save to accommodate a world class striker), same results and abandoned it around November. And no, it's not an ideal setup for wing play for 2 reasons:

First of all, there are no wingers and while there is supposed to be crosses, they should come primarily and in abundance from the Wingbacks.

The IW/If (a) is supposed to drift into the half spaces, looking for an opportunity to cut into the box to receive a pass or find a run to play the ball through, they don't, they just stubbornly run wide. On the other side, the IW (su) is supposed to do the same, only picking up the ball slightly deeper and cut inside, not so much drift into the half space looking for a run. This is what the roles are supposed to, instead, they act like winger disregarding stronger foot, traits, etc.

 

Look, this tactic isn't supposed to have a super special emphasis on central play (note the lack of a "play through the middle" instruction), it's supposed to be balanced and incentivize passing combinations. On the pitch, I can see the triangles forming between the players, they just default to playing it wide and the wide players default to running wide.

And people have experimented with tactics who are meant to be central oriented with *literally* the same statistics of final third entries through the middle as me (both extremely low compared to what they should be). There is very clearly an issue here, and it doesn't seem to be simply fixing IW/IF because the trouble is still there when there aren't wide players. I recommend you to go and give a look at the bug reports that have been submitted.

On my report the SI staff responding to those posts himself have said that the developers recognize it as an issue and are aware of it -> "This is a known issue regarding central play, and one we're investigating internally"

If I thought everything was ok and saw some people complaining about an issue in previous FM I'd assume that they must've had it wrong tactically, I get it, but that's simply not the case and it's backed up by the actual games statistics.