Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) Hey, good morning everybody. Having finally cracked and upgraded from my beloved FM 2018 due to the database being too far behind, I am already experiencing logical issue with the FM 2022 tactics creator. Is anybody else noticing extremely disjointed individual mentalities for players in the AM/ST strata in the FM 2022 BETA? I've just set up - what should be - a fairly well-balanced, positive 4-2-3-1 shape for Arsenal. However, somehow, the FM 2022 Tactics Creator is determining that a positive team mentality plus a support duty should result in a very attacking individual mentality for all players in the AM and ST strata. As a result, the mentality distribution is incredibly disjointed: Very Attacking Very Attacking Very Attacking Very Attacking Positive Cautious Positive Cautious Cautious Positive Positive Players in midfield and defensive stratas look fine. For the sake of comparison, the same system in the FM2021 (demo) Tactics Creator gives a far more balanced and logical individual mentality distribution. Balanced Positive Positive Positive Positive Cautious Positive Cautious Cautious Positive Positive I haven't got as far as to play any games yet, so cannot comment as to whether it's just an interface issue or the tactics creator is genuinely churning out these mentalities. Or maybe I am badly missing some kind of logic, or have a strange instruction ticked. I'll play a few games and see how it is today. Hopefully can be resolved before the main release! Edited October 24, 2021 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiigman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) Hi mate, I believe someone has raised this in the general feedback thread, and possibly raised a bug report. From the replies it's believed to be a UI issue but I don't know for sure. Edited October 24, 2021 by craiigman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiigman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Link: https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/557920-official-football-manager-2022-early-access-beta-feedback-thread/?do=findComment&comment=13297580 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandersson Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 I had noticed this too and believe it or not the first thing I thought was O-zil over at SI forums would absolutely hate this Most likely a bug imo, anyway great to see you're on FM 22! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquaplex Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Great to see you on FM22 Ozil, about time 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyfc Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 hours ago, craiigman said: Hi mate, I believe someone has raised this in the general feedback thread, and possibly raised a bug report. From the replies it's believed to be a UI issue but I don't know for sure. Anecdotally, I'm noticing my W(S) getting in the box as much as my IF(A) which would suggest they're operating on similar mentalities. Tends to be much further forward than I'd expect based on previous games, so I'd be surprised if it's merely cosmetic but could be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiigman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 28 minutes ago, dannyfc said: Anecdotally, I'm noticing my W(S) getting in the box as much as my IF(A) which would suggest they're operating on similar mentalities. Tends to be much further forward than I'd expect based on previous games, so I'd be surprised if it's merely cosmetic but could be wrong. Worth raising as bug I would say 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceLombardi Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Yeah O-zil. Consensus suggests UI issue. Check it out in match and let us know what you think. Looking forward to seeing your work around for getting past not having structured/fluid team settings anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crusadertsar Posted October 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) But on the upside, we finally have a False 9 on a higher mentality than "Balanced". In my current formation with False 9 the role is playing wonderfully because he is on "Attacking" individual mentality. I rather they not change that. It was so frustrating never being able to get him to any mentality higher than balanced and the role suffered as a result. But I agree seeing AMC (S) on very attacking individual mentality kind of goes against the point of the role. Edited October 24, 2021 by crusadertsar 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddygodwin Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 10 hours ago, crusadertsar said: But on the upside, we finally have a False 9 on a higher mentality than "Balanced". In my current formation with False 9 the role is playing wonderfully because he is on "Attacking" individual mentality. I rather they not change that. It was so frustrating never being able to get him to any mentality higher than balanced and the role suffered as a result. But I agree seeing AMC (S) on very attacking individual mentality kind of goes against the point of the role. Can't they add a feature where we can switch between mentalities for each role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, eddygodwin said: Can't they add a feature where we can switch between mentalities for each role? They could. To make it individually controlled. But now it's directly connected to the team mentality. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! It's good to see that you will be playing FM22. Looking forward to your tactical thread(s). I still remember how much content you provided for FM17 and specifically your Strikerless replication for Pep's Barca. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Os Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I noticed it off the bat, however observing my side play 4231 in matches I can confirm it is cosmetic. I play all matches on full 90 minute highlights and all the attacking players are taking up the positions I would expect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenal3459 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 should we rely on this old player mentality calculator until the bug fix? or what are y'all doing to understand player mentality? guess i could use fm21 to double check. also, it's great to see you on the newest fm @Ö-zil to the Arsenal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasson Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 15 hours ago, arsenal3459 said: should we rely on this old player mentality calculator until the bug fix? or what are y'all doing to understand player mentality? guess i could use fm21 to double check. also, it's great to see you on the newest fm @Ö-zil to the Arsenal. I don’t think so. Right now I’m using a Positive team mentality and my WM on support have a Very Attacking individual mentality. I haven’t quite figured the whole thing out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Lasson said: I don’t think so. Right now I’m using a Positive team mentality and my WM on support have a Very Attacking individual mentality. I haven’t quite figured the whole thing out. Im playing on Attacking team mentality and my WM(s) and False 9 all have "Attacking" individual mentality. Cant complain though because the movement they create is great. Especially by the much more decisive False 9. He is acting like a whole new role somewhere between Trequartista(A) and Complete Forward (S). Really great so hope they don't "fix" that part Edited November 1, 2021 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasson Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: Im playing on Attacking team mentality and my WM(s) and False 9 all have "Attacking" individual mentality. Cant complain though because the movement they create is great. Especially by the much more decisive False 9. He is acting like a whole new role somewhere between Trequartista(A) and Complete Forward (S). Really great so hope they don't "fix" that part Them why on earth is my WM(s) on Very Attacking? That makes no sense. Even as a DW(s), he’s on Very Attacking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lasson said: Them why on earth is my WM(s) on Very Attacking? That makes no sense. Even as a DW(s), he’s on Very Attacking Dont know. Doesnt makes sense to me either why on Attacking team mentality they are less attacking. But it is what it is. Maybe you should try switching to Attacking team mentality and see how your forwards play. Because it could be just an interface error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasson Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 In fact, when I turn the team mentality one notch up to Attacking, the individual mentality on my WM(s) goes one down to Attacking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Lasson said: In fact, when I turn the team mentality one notch up to Attacking, the individual mentality on my WM(s) goes one down to Attacking Exactly that's what I noticed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 It's a bug, been noted and should be fixed for the official release. Fwiw I'm pretty sure the bug doesn't negatively affect the gameplay, just that the text is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Yea, I've played enough now to be pretty certain it's an interface issue rather than an actual bug in the tactics creator Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endadc Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Yea, I've played enough now to be pretty certain it's an interface issue rather than an actual bug in the tactics creator does this mean no new Ozil guide? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, endadc said: does this mean no new Ozil guide? Am re-learning the game myself right now. A lot has changed since FM 2018! Can't get my team pressing well right now. Opposition centrebacks are putting up 120+ passes per game just side-to-side but my attackers aren't taking the ball off them. Edited November 3, 2021 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endadc Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Am re-learning the game myself right now. A lot has changed since FM 2018! Can't get my team pressing well right now. Opposition centrebacks are putting up 120+ passes per game just side-to-side but my attackers aren't taking the ball off them. well i hope you do one, some of the most fun doing a save ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandormer Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Am re-learning the game myself right now. A lot has changed since FM 2018! Can't get my team pressing well right now. Opposition centrebacks are putting up 120+ passes per game just side-to-side but my attackers aren't taking the ball off them. Really enjoyed your FM18 thread, and looking forward to seeing what you do in this year's game! I believe the centre back issue has been raised as a potential bug (I think so, anyway). A lot of people have noticed that centre backs often have the highest number of passes, and best pass completion, of anybody on the pitch. Hopefully it'll be addressed when the main game is released. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 2 hours ago, ryandormer said: Really enjoyed your FM18 thread, and looking forward to seeing what you do in this year's game! I believe the centre back issue has been raised as a potential bug (I think so, anyway). A lot of people have noticed that centre backs often have the highest number of passes, and best pass completion, of anybody on the pitch. Hopefully it'll be addressed when the main game is released. Yea, hope so. Makes some of the games almost unwatchable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 Disappointed to see that this has not been fixed 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endadc Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 56 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Disappointed to see that this has not been fixed Will you be doing a Style guide Ozil? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattric_b Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Disappointed to see that this has not been fixed I noticed it also, pretty irritating. Im going to report it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVL76 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Disappointed to see that this has not been fixed I assume they are playing 'wrongly' and this isn't just a labelling issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 14 hours ago, RVL76 said: I assume they are playing 'wrongly' and this isn't just a labelling issue? No, fortunately it's not an issue in the match engine otherwise the game would be unplayable. It's more of an inconvenience when putting a tactic together and you want to see how your combination of team mentality, role, duty and team instructions effect the individual mentality of your attackers. The obvious workaround is to plug your tactical set up into the FM2021 tactics creator, or even build your tactic there and then plug it into FM2022. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlSaunders Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 On 09/11/2021 at 10:04, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Disappointed to see that this has not been fixed Yes, after flagging it myself on the beta, it was one of the first things i looked at when i loaded my first save. I was really pissed off when i saw it wasn't fixed. I don't know why either, because you are right, it is just cosmetic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElJefe4 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 How are people managing to work around this issue? I don't have FM21 so can't load my tactics in the tactic creator on that version to see the mentalities without this issue. I'm trying to create a Sacchi inspired high pressing 442 but really struggling to select the correct rules/duties due to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted November 17, 2021 Author Share Posted November 17, 2021 10 hours ago, ElJefe4 said: How are people managing to work around this issue? I don't have FM21 so can't load my tactics in the tactic creator on that version to see the mentalities without this issue. I'm trying to create a Sacchi inspired high pressing 442 but really struggling to select the correct rules/duties due to this. Try downloading the FM2021 demo? I have the demo but not the actual game. Haha it's utterly ridiculous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElJefe4 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Try downloading the FM2021 demo? I have the demo but not the actual game. Haha it's utterly ridiculous That might be the only way to go about it! Quite surprised they haven't fixed it yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_ Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Do we know if they working on a fix? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattric_b Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I reported a bug but haven’t heard anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianscousemac Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I mentioned this in the Bug forum but Its hasnt been acknowedged as a bug yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianscousemac Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 This is still an issue for me. Is anyone else still experiencing this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 3 hours ago, ianscousemac said: This is still an issue for me. Is anyone else still experiencing this? Still the same for me.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 There have been plenty of changes to attacking roles in the last two versions of football manager. In this version quite a few roles have higher underlying mentalities. The behaviour of roles isn't driven by mentality alone, its also driven by the nature of the role, the instructions in that role, the team instructions you use, the traits of the player. A lot more is going into the behavior of individual roles instead of just mentality. These have always been by design. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemahh Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 48 minutes ago, Rashidi said: There have been plenty of changes to attacking roles in the last two versions of football manager. In this version quite a few roles have higher underlying mentalities. So a Support duty Winger having a Very Attacking mentality is by design? I don't see them behaving much differently either, so clearly their mentality hasn't actually changed that much (Positive in FM21 = Very Attacking in FM22). Would be interested to see some examples of these "changes". If anything, with inside-cutting forwards refusing to cut inside, one could argue some roles got less attacking, not more. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rashidi said: There have been plenty of changes to attacking roles in the last two versions of football manager. In this version quite a few roles have higher underlying mentalities. The behaviour of roles isn't driven by mentality alone, its also driven by the nature of the role, the instructions in that role, the team instructions you use, the traits of the player. A lot more is going into the behavior of individual roles instead of just mentality. These have always been by design. If there is an intended logic, I'm failing to see it. With a Positive team mentality the Inverted Winger (Support), Attacking Midfielder (Support) and Deep-Lying Forward (Support) have higher individual mentality than the Inside Forward (Support) which would seem like the most attacking role. The mentality for the Deep-Lying Forward (Support) actually decreases from Very Attacking to Attacking when you increase the team mentality to Attacking. There also seems to be a massive individual mentality drop-off as players play in deeper stratas; doesn't make much sense - to me - in the context of modern football, where teams play so collectively. Fortunately, it only seems to be an aesthetic issue in the Tactics Creator and not in the Match Engine. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashidi Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 51 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said: Fortunately, it only seems to be an aesthetic issue in the Tactics Creator and not in the Match Engine. At this moment, thats what I am inclined to as well. I don't place any importance to the individual mentality label at the moment, and to be frank, its more enjoyable that way instead of busting my head thinking of why. I can guess whats happened but I am not at liberty to say much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarJ Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said: To clarify - this is intentional, not a bug. The player mentality tells you only a very small part of how a player/role will operate, generally it's best to try them out on the pitch and see how they feel and let us know if you're seeing any negative trends. Cheers, Jack Apparently it's not a bug 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowforever Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I feel like individual mentality used to be an important thing in regards to tactic creation, but it just isn't any more. Just removing it from view rather than leaving it in to be seen makes the most sense to me, it's just confusing people. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenal3459 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, DarJ said: Apparently it's not a bug i'm so confused now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARRERA Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, DarJ said: Apparently it's not a bug yeah, I've seen that post as well. I dont know man, SI should announce changes around tactical creation even if its just of cosmetic nature. And its very low hanging fruits as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandersson Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 1 hour ago, DarJ said: Apparently it's not a bug This is disappointing on so many levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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