Possession in fm 22

[nimmospurs]

is anyone else really struggling to keep possession in this beta or is it just me I’m doing Barcelona and can’t keep hold of the ball

[04texag]

Post your tactic? I'm not having too much trouble if I force it. 

Win key + shift + s then paste it

[UI_Riven]

Yes, the match engine currently is screwed... When you watch the game on "full match" mode, you'll realise the AI CB and BK just pass the ball around without ever attacking. It's probably gonna get fixed before the full game releases

[Sneaky Pete]

19 minutes ago, UI_Riven said:

Yes, the match engine currently is screwed... When you watch the game on "full match" mode, you'll realise the AI CB and BK just pass the ball around without ever attacking. It's probably gonna get fixed before the full game releases

This is unfortunately it, yeah. If you have a gander at some of the bug tracker threads you'll see CBs are regularly completing 100+ passes each at close to 100% completion.

I trust it'll be fixed before release but right now your best bet in terms of possession is probably pressing high with a formation that has more players in the striker and AM strata than the AI has CBs.

[Diogo28]

24 minutos atrás, Sneaky Pete disse:

This is unfortunately it, yeah. If you have a gander at some of the bug tracker threads you'll see CBs are regularly completing 100+ passes each at close to 100% completion.

I trust it'll be fixed before release but right now your best bet in terms of possession is probably pressing high with a formation that has more players in the striker and AM strata than the AI has CBs.

Feeling the same problem.

I've seen too much passing between defenders withouth real pressing, even with a higher LoE and higher pressing.

This happens with my team, but mostly with teams that sit deep.

I'm playing with Barcelona and won my first 15 matches with confort, including a 4-0 against Atletico Madrid. They had a lot of possession in their defence the whole match, even when they should try to attack, 

I'm finding very easy to retain possession in the defence, even for weaker teams. Levante had 65% possession against me despite losing 5-0. Even with 1-0 they barely tried to attack, they just kept cycling the ball between their back lines.

 

The rest of the ME is very very good, but this part feels kinda bad, mostly if you watch compreehensive highlights. I feel that if i could just play low tempo and short passing in order to avoid suffering goals. 

[CharlieTZR]

Yes, I have the same problem with CDs and generally players coming deep passing too much between them.

I wondered if it is not an effect of the changes of pressing being too effective and it seems playing wings kind of solve this issue but not completely.

I will experiment next with NCBs, take fewer risks and distribution of GK to flanks or playmaker. It is indeed annoying.

 

 

[CARRERA]

@Johnny Acesaid on the actual beta thread its a know issue and already reported. So lets hope for the best for future ME updates

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by CARRERA

[yellowforever]

"Defensive possession" teams have been a problem on FM for years. Unfortunately this is something that is much worse on this engine, so hopefully it gets fixed.

[Adonalsium]

Yeah, I am really struggling. I'm playing a tactic that is designed to hold possession (3331 with wide players and 3 center backs), but possession ends up being in the region of 40-50% consistently. All TIs are also possession-oriented.

[nimmospurs]

apparently there is a fix incoming i hope so doing international save until the fix is out

[UI_Riven]

Il y a 11 heures, nimmospurs a dit :

apparently there is a fix incoming i hope so doing international save until the fix is out

Where did you see that? Is it going to be before the full release?

[RTHerringbone]

SI never confirm specific ME updates in advance. It's on their radar but they won't commit to fixing specific issues as they're usually really hard to fix. They will, however, be working on it.

[Sneaky Pete]

16 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

SI never confirm specific ME updates in advance. It's on their radar but they won't commit to fixing specific issues as they're usually really hard to fix. They will, however, be working on it.

I mean, this one they kind of have to fix. The ME is quite literally broken so long as this is an issue.

[warlock]

32 minutes ago, Sneaky Pete said:

The ME is quite literally broken so long as this is an issue

In your opinion. In my opinion, there's little wrong with possession in game. I never play for possession, I play to win games but if I can get 55-60% possession without even trying I genuinely don't see what the problem is.

[Sneaky Pete]

2 minutes ago, warlock said:

In your opinion. In my opinion, there's little wrong with possession in game. I never play for possession, I play to win games but if I can get 55-60% possession without even trying I genuinely don't see what the problem is.

You don't see the problem with CBs - even CBs with single-digit relevant technical and mental stats - handily completing 100+ passes with 98%+ completion every game?

That's the root of the current possession issues in the beta, for the record - it's CBs just passing the ball back and forth between themselves and never being pressed.

That doesn't mean that the player can't get possession - after all, your CBs will do the exact same thing - but it does mean the pressing system doesn't work properly and CBs very clearly behave in a way that has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Sneaky Pete

[warlock]

Just now, Sneaky Pete said:

it's CBs just passing the ball back and forth between themselves and never being pressed

Why are they not being pressed?

[Sneaky Pete]

1 minute ago, warlock said:

Why are they not being pressed?

Because the pressing system fundamentally doesn't work properly in the current beta ME.

Even if you set pressing to max and tick "Prevent Short GK Distribution" - hell, even if you put individual pressing triggers on every opponent CB - your players will sit back and not consistently press the opposition CBs. Your CBs will similarly not be pressed consistently.

If you check the Bug Tracker forum you'll see that this and CB passing behaviour are both known and acknowledged issues that the ME team are trying to fix.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Sneaky Pete

[warlock]

26 minutes ago, Sneaky Pete said:

your players will sit back and not consistently press the opposition CBs

But how many players? You can't press a 4-man backline with a lone striker and two wide AMs or - even worse - a lone striker and 4 CMs.

31 minutes ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Your CBs will similarly not be pressed consistently

My CBs are constantly harassed by the AI, so again I have to disagree.

You say the ME is broken, but you offer no information about why you think so. Show us your tactics, tell us what you've tried to solve the problem

[Sneaky Pete]

13 minutes ago, warlock said:

 

You say the ME is broken, but you offer no information about why you think so. Show us your tactics, tell us what you've tried to solve the problem

 

I already told you - it's an acknowledged issue with the ME by the devs themselves, as evidenced by several Bug Tracker threads that are literally chock-full of examples of the problem and have multiple dev comments acknowledging the issue. See e.g. this thread.

Can it be mitigated somewhat by the right tactics? Of course. But fundamentally there is a very big issue with CBs and how the press does (or rather, doesn't) affect them right now.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Sneaky Pete

[CARRERA]

17 minutes ago, warlock said:

But how many players? You can't press a 4-man backline with a lone striker and two wide AMs or - even worse - a lone striker and 4 CMs.

My CBs are constantly harassed by the AI, so again I have to disagree.

You say the ME is broken, but you offer no information about why you think so. Show us your tactics, tell us what you've tried to solve the problem

There is no need to discuss about this issue as it is already acknowledged by SI.

And there are many other posts about it. If you don’t have the issue, you properbly just don’t match the circumstances under it occurres
 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by CARRERA

[warlock]

9 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Can it be mitigated somewhat by the right tactics? Of course.

Might be why we're discussing it in the tactics discussion forum, eh?

[levo in da house]

Winger- stay wider
DL- sit narrow,cross less often
FW- shoot more often,roam from position , move into channels

[CARRERA]

27 minutes ago, levo in da house said:

Winger- stay wider
DL- sit narrow,cross less often
FW- shoot more often,roam from position , move into channels

A good illustration of how broken the current ME actually is. eventhough you properbly intended to proof how high possession numbers possibly can get. It's very notable, that teams that try to accumulate possession due to a conservative passing game, like your own, city, chelsea and some small clubs who play either cautious or some sort of "tiki-taka" can achieve some possession. However, teams that are trying to primarily accumulate possession by winning the ball back quickly like liverpool, ManU and Arsenal dont even appear in the top 8 possession stats and most likely have even less then 50% eventhough they are top 5 teams at the end of the season.

It clearly indicates that the pressing against conservative teams dont work as intended. Another indication is Norwich, who didnt even make it to the top half of the league table but accumulated 54% avg possession (3rd place) with 91% pass completition.

To match this with some real life data, you can see that no team in last years season was able to average more then 90% pass completition over the whole season. While in your save 7 out of 8 teams could achieve 90% or more.

Concluded there is for sure a broken interaction between pressing not working as intended and passing% rates are way too high (for years already)

Edited October 30, 2021 by CARRERA

[Cleon]

32 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

A good illustration of how broken the current ME actually is. eventhough you properbly intended to proof how high possession numbers possibly can get. It's very notable, that teams that try to accumulate possession due to a conservative passing game, like your own, city, chelsea and some small clubs who play either cautious or some sort of "tiki-taka" can achieve some possession. However, teams that are trying to primarily accumulate possession by winning the ball back quickly like liverpool, ManU and Arsenal dont even appear in the top 8 possession stats and most likely have even less then 50% eventhough they are top 5 teams at the end of the season.

It clearly indicates that the pressing against conservative teams dont work as intended. Another indication is Norwich, who didnt even make it to the top half of the league table but accumulated 54% avg possession (3rd place) with 91% pass completition.

To match this with some real life data, you can see that no team in last years season was able to average more then 90% pass completition over the whole season. While in your save 7 out of 8 teams could achieve 90% or more.

Concluded there is for sure a broken interaction between pressing not working as intended and passing% rates are way too high (for years already)

FM doesn't count the number of passes as possession though unless it was updated this year. It still uses the old method of time on the ball not the number of passes. So you can't compare real world numbers as real world percentage is worked out by number of passes and not the amount of time on the ball. So there will always be discrepancies when using real life to justify the numbers in the game. Arguing the point when they both work different is a moot point really.

That's not to say that possession isn't bugged on the game as it clearly is to some extent.

[CARRERA]

11 minutes ago, Cleon said:

FM doesn't count the number of passes as possession though unless it was updated this year. It still uses the old method of time on the ball not the number of passes. So you can't compare real world numbers as real world percentage is worked out by number of passes and not the amount of time on the ball. So there will always be discrepancies when using real life to justify the numbers in the game. Arguing the point when they both work different is a moot point really.

Yeah i know that and i dont think they changed it. At least form my personal experience the numbers arent too far off if you recalculate possession numbers ingame with the IRL model after a game. But thanks for bringing up that point. I was more about the pass completition. But eventhough the meassurement of possession is slightly different form IRL, dominant teams should still accumulate more possession just by raw pressure they provide. Liverpool averages like 20,5 shots per game from the screens provided. I cant imagine they got dominated by their opponents to not even accumulate 50% time on the ball (in FM terms) on average. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by CARRERA

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Yeah i know that and i dont think they changed it. But thanks for bringing up that point. I was more about the pass completition. But eventhough the meassurement of possession is slightly different form IRL, dominant teams should still accumulate more possession just by raw pressure they provide. Liverpool averages like 20,5 shots per game from the screens provided. I cant imagine they got dominated by their opponents to not even accumulate 50% time on the ball (in FM terms) on average. 

Like I said, you can’t compare real life and FM in this sense as it’s not a fair comparison as they both work totally different.  It’s not just a slight difference it’s a massive one.

The issue with FM is if AI defenders are passing between themselves and avoiding the press (which seems to be the bug) this has massive repercussions as those teams will automatically have that time turned into possession on FM.

 

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

Like I said, you can’t compare real life and FM in this sense as it’s not a fair comparison as they both work totally different.  It’s not just a slight difference it’s a massive one.

The issue with FM is if AI defenders are passing between themselves and avoiding the press (which seems to be the bug) this has massive repercussions as those teams will automatically have that time turned into possession on FM.

 

I actually wanted to get into this and get some actual data fromt the game. You are actually right, the difference can be quite huge on a one game basis but also many are quite close. Generally spoken its most likely that teams that loose the possession battle would have IRL even less possession then in FM and teams that win the possession battle would have even more possession IRL. There were just two cases where it turned out differently.

So eventhough its quite different, it doesnt really make anything up to the argumentation as the problem remains the same. It could be assumed, that teams like Liverpool would have way below 50% possession if calculated with IRL methods in the current FM ME. And that perfectly fits the bug you described.

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

The issue with FM is if AI defenders are passing between themselves and avoiding the press (which seems to be the bug) this has massive repercussions as those teams will automatically have that time turned into possession on FM.

Besides that though, my actual point was the overall pass completition in FM thats still a Problem for years now compared to reallife and does for sure also play into this.

(Blue Team is a top team / high rep Team and didnt loose a single match and averaged 2 goals per match; pressing mid-high block)

edit// alternative possession (IRL Method) ----> teams completed passes divided by the matchs total completed passes

edit2// missed game 2+3 for blue team overall alternative calculation. updated the screenshot

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by CARRERA

[Cult of Football Manager]

18 hours ago, warlock said:

Might be why we're discussing it in the tactics discussion forum, eh?

I don't understand your contribution to this thread. You come in with a terrible attitude towards " Sneaky Pete" He offers his thoughts in a clear enough and polite manor ( whether you agree with him or not ) . You can't reciprocate that and show not only a complete lack of understanding of the topic and issue, but a lack of interest in it. 

 

You don't see a problem with possession in FM? Well just end your contribution there then. Possession is calculated differently in real life and in FM. Combine that with a potential bug or two with pressing or passes completed and the data hub can start to look quite scattered & uncorrelated. The Data hub is one of the headline features of FM 22 and something people will love to use for deep dive analysis and issues like this are worth discussing because it could potentially have so many knock on effects.

 

Thanks to everyone else in the thread for their contributions it's been good to read.

 

@levo in da house if you don't make many tactical changes it would be great to see how you do second season. When bottom half teams set up against you in your second season, my theory would be from them being more defensive and you having a false 9 to press the cb's your average possession and passes completed won't improve much ( potentially might go down ) in the same way you might expect. You would normally expect them to go up from the better players you're inevitably going to bring in playing as Newcastle but I think it won't necessarily go that way however it would be great to see.  Feel free to message me if you're interested in sharing that I'm intrigued to see how you get on if you play a second season purely from a analytical point of view.

[levo in da house]

4 saat önce, Cult of Football Manager said:

@levo in da house if you don't make many tactical changes it would be great to see how you do second season. When bottom half teams set up against you in your second season, my theory would be from them being more defensive and you having a false 9 to press the cb's your average possession and passes completed won't improve much ( potentially might go down ) in the same way you might expect. You would normally expect them to go up from the better players you're inevitably going to bring in playing as Newcastle but I think it won't necessarily go that way however it would be great to see.  Feel free to message me if you're interested in sharing that I'm intrigued to see how you get on if you play a second season purely from a analytical point of view.

 

I will only play one season because there is a problem when registering a squad for the champions league. but I will try again with another team.

[warlock]

7 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

You come in with a terrible attitude

Did I? I merely objected to his view that the match engine "is quite clearly broken" (his words) and expressed my own opinion to the contrary. He then mentioned a couple of specific problems and, this being the tactics discussion forum, I asked a couple of questions about his tactical approach, what his tactic looked like, how many players he used in the press. His reply was only to the effect that tactical discussion was pointless because SI have already acknowledged there's a problem. But all I can see in links is SI saying they'll look at it to see if there's a problem, which isn't the same thing.

[levo in da house]

second season
i change wide > extremely wide
delete counter press



 

DOMINATED

[Sneaky Pete]

7 hours ago, warlock said:

Did I? I merely objected to his view that the match engine "is quite clearly broken" (his words) and expressed my own opinion to the contrary. He then mentioned a couple of specific problems and, this being the tactics discussion forum, I asked a couple of questions about his tactical approach, what his tactic looked like, how many players he used in the press. His reply was only to the effect that tactical discussion was pointless because SI have already acknowledged there's a problem. But all I can see in links is SI saying they'll look at it to see if there's a problem, which isn't the same thing.

This would be a reasonable critique if you had engaged with some of that stats I brought up. I don't really particularly care to entertain "well, in my opinion" as a response to the absolute smorgasbord of available (and presented) evidence demonstrating CBs with passing completion percentages and passes/game outside the bounds of the extraordinary, let alone the ordinary. Furthermore, if this:

On 26/10/2021 at 16:02, Kyle Brown said:

Thanks all for the examples, it's genuinely really helpful. The issue is still with the Match team, but rest assured they'll do their best to make tweaks and changes soon.  

isn't the devs clear-as-day acknowledging the problem, I simply don't know what is and someone will have to enlighten me.

I get that this is the T&T forum where "It's your tactics, mate" is the holy mantra - as it ought to be - but the ME does in fact have some peculiarities every year, as the ME is never (nor should it be expected to be!) perfect. It is reasonable to acknowledge those peculiarities where they occur, as it gives some indications as to problems that can be fixed by clever tactics, and problems that cannot consistently be fixed because they are inherent to the game. In FM21, for example, no amount of berating, cajoling, or pleading is going to fix poor header accuracy from strikers and awful crossing completion percentages - that's just a peculiarity of that particular FM edition. The same goes for central play in FM19-20.

It is every bit as nonsensical to blame nothing on the ME as it is to blame everything on the ME, and in trying to avoid the latter we must be very careful not to fall into the former.

[warlock]

1 hour ago, Sneaky Pete said:

if you had engaged with some of that stats I brought up

The only stat I can see in this thread is this:

On 30/10/2021 at 01:37, Sneaky Pete said:

You don't see the problem with CBs - even CBs with single-digit relevant technical and mental stats - handily completing 100+ passes with 98%+ completion every game?

Which, I'm sorry, looks like simple hyperbole. So let's look at the stats in my current save.

So far, so good for your argument. All of those players are defenders, and all except Crichlow are CBs. But how many passes do those figures actually represent? Here's another view:

Of the players attempting most passes, only my player (Godwin-Malife) is a CB. We're 9 league games into the season, and most of these players have made 8 or 9 appearances so, on average, the players attempting the most passes are trying fewer than 65 passes per game.

So, to answer your question, no I'm not seeing it. Not only do none of the CBs in the first table have single-digit stats for passing ability, none of them is completing 100 passes every single game. None of them is even attempting 100 passes every single game. And we all know what those passes are - simple layoffs to the GK, a fellow defender or a midfielder dropping deep. I'd say even a half-decent defender should be completing 95% of those.

[fc.cadoni]

On 30/10/2021 at 03:40, Sneaky Pete said:

Even if you set pressing to max and tick "Prevent Short GK Distribution" - hell, even if you put individual pressing triggers on every opponent CB - your players will sit back and not consistently press the opposition CBs. Your CBs will similarly not be pressed consistently.

Just to clear what Prevent Short GK Distribution: It's only activated if the opp GK has the ball to be pressed from a forward (most likely ST position); not the front line to press more opp defense. 

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, warlock said:

So, to answer your question, no I'm not seeing it. Not only do none of the CBs in the first table have single-digit stats for passing ability, none of them is completing 100 passes every single game. None of them is even attempting 100 passes every single game. And we all know what those passes are - simple layoffs to the GK, a fellow defender or a midfielder dropping deep. I'd say even a half-decent defender should be completing 95% of those.

It only happens if the AI plays on a cautious or below mentality. So most likely only matches with Team A being a top team and Team B being a bottom half team will suffer from that behavior. Therefore the overall season stats are not representive.

A few aspects meet each other here 1.) a possible bug that prevents CB‘s to be pressed effectively, 2.) an overly passive AI from a tactical point of view that leads to many passes in the backline and 3.) an overall unusually high pass competition rate

2 + 3 are carried over from year to year but 1 is new after the changes to pressing triggers.

You can easily reproduce it yourself, just pick any Top Side, choose an attacking playstyle and go for it. As soon as the AI gets defensive, you will end up with games of complete dominance in terms of shots / goals / XG but very low possession. 

[Sneaky Pete]

1 hour ago, fc.cadoni said:

Just to clear what Prevent Short GK Distribution: It's only activated if the opp GK has the ball to be pressed from a forward (most likely ST position); not the front line to press more opp defense. 

I'm aware. However, without it, your team is often content to let CBs constantly pass the ball back to the GK against defensive sides that are simply trying to park the bus.

They also tend to allow the GK to distribute short, which is how the endless CB passing carousel often starts in FM22.

[warlock]

19 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

You can easily reproduce it yourself, just pick any Top Side, choose an attacking playstyle and go for it. As soon as the AI gets defensive, you will end up with games of complete dominance in terms of shots / goals / XG but very low possession. 

You mean like this:

That's a bit tongue-in-cheek, sorry . I know that underdogs will try (and often succeed) to keep possession, we can't score if we haven't got the ball, etc and so on. But my point is that we have a multitude of tools to control possession, and they're not only about pressing. In this game we were losing the possession battle before half-time (although I didn't care because we were 1-0 up at that point). But we managed to win back control by a) shortening passing length; and b) working ball into box. Those two simple changes allowed us to go from 45% to 56% possession by the end of the game. Otherwise, these are the TIs used throughout:

Not exactly gegenpress is it?

Edited November 1, 2021 by warlock

[CARRERA]

9 minutes ago, warlock said:

You mean like this:

That's a bit tongue-in-cheek, sorry . I know that underdogs will try (and often succeed) to keep possession, we can't score if we haven't got the ball, etc and so on. But my point is that we have a multitude of tools to control possession, and they're not only about pressing. In this game we were losing the possession battle before half-time (although I didn't care because we were 1-0 up at that point). But we managed to win back control by a) shortening passing length; and b) working ball into box. Those two simple changes allowed us to go from 45% to 56% possession by the end of the game. Otherwise, these are the TIs used throughout:

Not exactly gegenpress is it?

Look, I understand that you are trying make a point here and want to proof that there is no problem, eventhough one game can’t be evident for anything. (Obviously)

However, of course it’s possible to manipulate the data by tuning down tempo, passing directness or any other risk averse in possession instruction. No one doubt that. The problem still remains the same though.

this thread is not about tactical education, it’s about the AI behavior and a specific issue with CB’s not being pressed effectively. 

Which team did you play against btw and what are the passing stats? Was it a League match or a Cup? I’m not so much into english football so I just figured out, that you play ManU. 

[warlock]

1 minute ago, CARRERA said:

I understand that you are trying make a point here and want to proof that there is no problem

Then you misunderstand. I think there are many problems in the game in general, and quite a few in the match engine specifically (overpowered heading in attack, a lack of the misplaced passes we were promised as a feature). I also accept that there may be an issue with pressing the AI backline, but so far I haven't seen anything in this thread to convince me.

5 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

this thread is not about tactical education, it’s about the AI behavior and a specific issue with CB’s not being pressed effectively.

Actually, it isn't. Here's the OP:

On 26/10/2021 at 13:56, nimmospurs said:

is anyone else really struggling to keep possession in this beta or is it just me I’m doing Barcelona and can’t keep hold of the ball

The thread was very quickly hijacked to the "issues" you mention, but the thread is absolutely about possession and - I would suggest - the tactical solutions to that problem. And that is my point: possession is a tactical issue, and there are tactical solutions available.

16 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

Which team did you play against btw and what are the passing stats?

Yes, that save I'm managing Manchester United, the game was a home match against Everton. I'm top of the league and while Everton are doing quite well, they absolutely came to Old Trafford to defend and hit us on the counter. I think the passing stats are in the screenshot but here's a bit more detail:

I'm sorry this seems to have turned into an argument rather than a discussion, which wasn't my intention. 

[CARRERA]

6 hours ago, warlock said:

I'm sorry this seems to have turned into an argument rather than a discussion, which wasn't my intention. 

Nono, it’s all fine. English is not my first language and it sometimes can be hard to track exactly what someone is actually saying. 

 I thought you were disagreeing on certain problems within the ME.

 

[Johan 14 Cruyff]

I used a strikerless tactic and went 2-0 up and watched the match in full. So often the Ai would just pass from CB to CB sometimes around 20/30 passes back and forth doing nothing gaining no ground. 
 

I know I could have switched tactics up and pressed with forwards to hassle them off the ball but that’s not the point I am making. Just want to highlight what others have said already of the pointless CB to CB passes on under dog teams specially when losing they act like they are ahead on the score and not behind. 
 

ive have lots of possession vs good teams usually around 65-70% and 50-55% vs relegation type teams, 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Johan 14 Cruyff

[smeagoltonez]

On 30/10/2021 at 21:45, CARRERA said:

A good illustration of how broken the current ME actually is. eventhough you properbly intended to proof how high possession numbers possibly can get. It's very notable, that teams that try to accumulate possession due to a conservative passing game, like your own, city, chelsea and some small clubs who play either cautious or some sort of "tiki-taka" can achieve some possession. However, teams that are trying to primarily accumulate possession by winning the ball back quickly like liverpool, ManU and Arsenal dont even appear in the top 8 possession stats and most likely have even less then 50% eventhough they are top 5 teams at the end of the season.

It clearly indicates that the pressing against conservative teams dont work as intended. Another indication is Norwich, who didnt even make it to the top half of the league table but accumulated 54% avg possession (3rd place) with 91% pass completition.

To match this with some real life data, you can see that no team in last years season was able to average more then 90% pass completition over the whole season. While in your save 7 out of 8 teams could achieve 90% or more.

Concluded there is for sure a broken interaction between pressing not working as intended and passing% rates are way too high (for years already)

Just out of interest, what website do you get stats such as these from?

[CARRERA]

3 hours ago, smeagoltonez said:

Just out of interest, what website do you get stats such as these from?

https://www.whoscored.com/

Hopefully its ok to post external links here

[smeagoltonez]

2 hours ago, CARRERA said:

https://www.whoscored.com/

Hopefully its ok to post external links here

Thanks very much!

[JoséNEO]

On 31/10/2021 at 16:52, warlock said:

Which, I'm sorry, looks like simple hyperbole. So let's look at the stats in my current save.

If anything the stats there show how broken it is, in real life from what I can see in the EFL League Two the highest pass completion was 86% a staggering 10% difference from the top players in your screenshot. In real life the highest pass completion for the Premier League came from Ruben Dias with 93% last season. This is one of the best centre backs in the world, in one of the best teams in the world, managed by a manager that is infamous for possession tactics.

[yonko]

I'm aware it is a problem with possession and passing. And I also fully understanding as this a Beta ME. But it is still ridiculous what just happened in my save with Barca. 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by yonko

[warlock]

39 minutes ago, yonko said:

But it is still ridiculous what just happened in my save

Yeah, even I have to admit that's indefensible. As well as being impossible to understand.

I probably owe @Sneaky Peteand @CARRERAan apology. I can only say I still haven't seen anything like it in any of my saves but I can't argue with those screenshots.

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

I'm aware it is a problem with possession and passing. And I also fully understanding as this a Beta ME. But it is still ridiculous what just happened in my save with Barca.

I know it's been reported before, but would be great if you could make a new thread with those examples.

https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2022-early-access-beta-bugs-forum/match-engine-ai-and-tactics/

Really hoping this one gets fixed for the full release, this is just bizarre.

[astrxAIR]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

I'm aware it is a problem with possession and passing. And I also fully understanding as this a Beta ME. But it is still ridiculous what just happened in my save with Barca. 

 

 

 

 The EXACT same thing happens with my barca team, I average less than 50% over the season with a lot of games having 35%~ facing teams that have 0 shots against me. Even worse when facing 5 atb teams. 

[Sneaky Pete]

2 hours ago, warlock said:

Yeah, even I have to admit that's indefensible. As well as being impossible to understand.

I probably owe @Sneaky Peteand @CARRERAan apology. I can only say I still haven't seen anything like it in any of my saves but I can't argue with those screenshots.

No apology needed - genuinely. I certainly could have been on better behaviour and very much respect that someone must play the role of Devil's Advocate lest the forum just become an echo chamber of ME moans.

For what it's worth I would be very interested to see how you are managing to avoid it, since the rest of us seem to experience it come Hell or high water. Perhaps seeing what you are doing differently - as I assume you must be - from the rest of us could help clue us (and the devs) on to what is going wrong in the ME when stuff like @yonko's screenshots happen.