Need a little help putting up my Christmas Tree (A Gerrard Rangers replication)

[beverage1982]

Hi all. 

As usual my first save on FM 22 is an Aston Villa recreation and this year I have the added fun of a new manager with a new style of play. From what I can gather at Rangers Gerrard played a narrow high press system with the wide forwards tucking in and full backs overlap[ping to create a 235 shape in attack. 

I'm trying to achieve this in two ways. One is a more traditional wide forward variant, the other is a Xmas tree involving two 10s, which I gather Gerrard did a little as a way of brsking down stubborn teams. 

Both feel like they're close to getting what I want, but not quite getting that 235 shape. Any advice, thoughts from a second or thirds pair of eyes would be much appreciated. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by beverage1982

[HowzatFM]

Good to see you with another Villa save / tactics like last year!  I’ve watched and read a few videos about Gerrard and his tactics!

Personally I’ve opted for the more traditional looking 4-3-3. For the defence roles look pretty good and similar to what I have opted for. The 1 CB and 1BPD with DLP(D) and wing backs providing the width! From what I’ve read higher LOE would be better to match Gerrard 

I think IW is a good choice, especially with IF issues in the current ME. Maybe have them on sit narrower? How does the focus play down the wings work? 

Maybe ‘counter’ off would help the midfielders stay back a little in shape? Not tried this myself yet

I’m looking forward to the weekend and seeing how we actually lineup and play! 

Edited November 17, 2021 by benhoward12

[beverage1982]

36 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

Good to see you with another Villa save / tactics like last year!  I’ve watched and read a few videos about Gerrard and his tactics!

Personally I’ve opted for the more traditional looking 4-3-3. For the defence roles look pretty good and similar to what I have opted for. The 1 CB and 1BPD with DLP(D) and wing backs providing the width! From what I’ve read higher LOE would be better to match Gerrard 

I think IW is a good choice, especially with IF issues in the current ME. Maybe have them on sit narrower? How does the focus play down the wings work? 

Maybe ‘counter’ off would help the midfielders stay back a little in shape? Not tried this myself yet

I’m looking forward to the weekend and seeing how we actually lineup and play! 

Same here. Heartbroken to see Deano go, but excited for a fresh look tactically. 

Agree re: narrow on both wide players, maybe roam too. The exploit flanks is something I'm toying with to get overloads on each side. it's soemthing I've seen in a few of the Gerrard analysis pieces and it creates some good football, but I fear it also slows us down. 

What are your thoughts on going very narrow TI? I've never really used it (traditionally being a wingplay fan) but everything I read seems to suggest Gerrrad's teams play very narrow (it's why I'm toying with the Xmas tree) with all the width being provided by wingbacks. 

The counter off is interesting as well. I really need that midfield 3 to be solid to create the 235 shape going forwards, and if they go too soon the wingbacks won't get forwards. I'm also considering a lower tempo for this reason. The last thing I want to do is lose the ball in transition. Instead I want us to build into that shape without losing the ball. That said I've also read that Gerrard's teams counter after pressing traps so who knows. 

[HowzatFM]

33 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Same here. Heartbroken to see Deano go, but excited for a fresh look tactically. 

Agree re: narrow on both wide players, maybe roam too. The exploit flanks is something I'm toying with to get overloads on each side. it's soemthing I've seen in a few of the Gerrard analysis pieces and it creates some good football, but I fear it also slows us down. 

What are your thoughts on going very narrow TI? I've never really used it (traditionally being a wingplay fan) but everything I read seems to suggest Gerrrad's teams play very narrow (it's why I'm toying with the Xmas tree) with all the width being provided by wingbacks. 

The counter off is interesting as well. I really need that midfield 3 to be solid to create the 235 shape going forwards, and if they go too soon the wingbacks won't get forwards. I'm also considering a lower tempo for this reason. The last thing I want to do is lose the ball in transition. Instead I want us to build into that shape without losing the ball. That said I've also read that Gerrard's teams counter after pressing traps so who knows. 

Yeah he did a great job, but tactically we were getting worse, especially the gaps between the lines, something Gerrard already spoken about fixing! 
 

Will give that a try, did see some notes about the CMs forming passing triangles with IW and WB! Could a Mezzala (su) be a good role with CM (su) on other side?

In regards to width I’m the same, but probably something required to get the wingers narrow, leaving space for the wing backs getting forward and wide. It does seem it’s going to be quite high intensity press with pressing traps when the ball goes wide, but to keep that shape and prevent the CMs pushing too far forward taking counter off may be better for FM?

Edited November 17, 2021 by benhoward12

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

39 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

Yeah he did a great job, but tactically we were getting worse, especially the gaps between the lines, something Gerrard already spoken about fixing! 
 

Will give that a try, did see some notes about the CMs forming passing triangles with IW and WB! Could a Mezzala (su) be a good role with CM (su) on other side?

In regards to width I’m the same, but probably something required to get the wingers narrow, leaving space for the wing backs getting forward and wide. It does seem it’s going to be quite high intensity press with pressing traps when the ball goes wide, but to keep that shape and prevent the CMs pushing too far forward taking counter off may be better for FM?

Mezzala could be a great idea. The striker role is bugging me too. PF (a) I think is best but also for rangers Morelos does drop in a lot. So PF (s) but then I worry it will be a bit toothless

[HowzatFM]

13 minutes ago, TheGhostofPaulLambert said:

Mezzala could be a great idea. The striker role is bugging me too. PF (a) I think is best but also for rangers Morelos does drop in a lot. So PF (s) but then I worry it will be a bit toothless

What about DLF(A)? 

Edited November 17, 2021 by benhoward12

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

28 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

What about DLF(A)? 

I've never found them to be a great goal threat but will give it a try.

 

What role you reckon for Mezzala?

[HowzatFM]

After a few ideas above, I put together the below, with 'stay narrower' on IWs.

First game went quite well, I know it's only 1 game at home, so needs some more playing but did see some nice combinations! 

[beverage1982]

1 hour ago, benhoward12 said:

After a few ideas above, I put together the below, with 'stay narrower' on IWs.

First game went quite well, I know it's only 1 game at home, so needs some more playing but did see some nice combinations! 

Nicely done. Mine looks very similar right now, though I'm toying with Mezzala on attack and both wide players on support. Am also playing around with short passing to get possession numbers up. 

[HowzatFM]

17 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Nicely done. Mine looks very similar right now, though I'm toying with Mezzala on attack and both wide players on support. Am also playing around with short passing to get possession numbers up. 

Let me know how it goes! Might work well with the other CM holding more, only concern is lack of player moving beyond the striker?
With the possession issues in the current ME it’s something I’m not paying too much attention too 

Edited November 17, 2021 by benhoward12

[HowzatFM]

Really struggling with the ME and the IWs not coming inside and playing narrow! Striker feels a bit isolated and not much of a focal point / scoring goals 

[beverage1982]

12 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Really struggling with the ME and the IWs not coming inside and playing narrow! Striker feels a bit isolated and not much of a focal point / scoring goals 

I feel you. I actually had a huge amount of success on my first save - which was my Dean Smith recreation from last year. Won the league first season. 

This is a whole lot harder. 

One thing I found useful was switching the striker to AF. The reason being that you are trying to play with two 10s in essence, so having another player (DLF) crowd that space is a bad idea. I've foundf it forces the IW wide as there's nowhere else to go. So instead make that zone bigger so that they can go narrower and get the shape you want. 

[HowzatFM]

On 18/11/2021 at 11:00, beverage1982 said:

I feel you. I actually had a huge amount of success on my first save - which was my Dean Smith recreation from last year. Won the league first season. 

This is a whole lot harder. 

One thing I found useful was switching the striker to AF. The reason being that you are trying to play with two 10s in essence, so having another player (DLF) crowd that space is a bad idea. I've foundf it forces the IW wide as there's nowhere else to go. So instead make that zone bigger so that they can go narrower and get the shape you want. 

Interesting, what is your overall tactic looking like? 

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

3 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Interesting, what is your overall tactic looking like? 

I've actually changed course and gone the Christmas tree route at the moment. It's a formation I've never really used and thought I'd tinker until I see what Stevie G does tomorrow. 

[HowzatFM]

22 minutes ago, TheGhostofPaulLambert said:

I've actually changed course and gone the Christmas tree route at the moment. It's a formation I've never really used and thought I'd tinker until I see what Stevie G does tomorrow. 

What roles you opted for?

[bowieinspace]

In terms of a re-creation, my understand is Rangers would have the wide forwards sit very narrow in defensive phases and it plays more like a Christmas tree formation. I admit I’ve not watched much of them, just what I’ve read since Gerrard moved to Villa. Given formation in FM represents defensive shape and roles impact attacking shape id perhaps consider the following:

- wide forwards actually play as amcl and amcr, am roles with lots of PI’s to stay wider, run wide with the ball, roam, move into channels for example. Their goal seems to be to stop central play in defensive phases so I’d set them up in positions to create that.

- the midfield 3 assist in overloading the wide areas, so perhaps two mezzalas on support to promote defending/counter pressing the wider areas as well as supporting the full backs and roaming dual 10s?

Edited November 20, 2021 by bowieinspace

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

17 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

What roles you opted for?

First half looks like Xmas tree. Even a flat 433 in defence. Might try two F9s flanking a PF up top. 

[HowzatFM]

On 20/11/2021 at 04:26, bowieinspace said:

In terms of a re-creation, my understand is Rangers would have the wide forwards sit very narrow in defensive phases and it plays more like a Christmas tree formation. I admit I’ve not watched much of them, just what I’ve read since Gerrard moved to Villa. Given formation in FM represents defensive shape and roles impact attacking shape id perhaps consider the following:

- wide forwards actually play as amcl and amcr, am roles with lots of PI’s to stay wider, run wide with the ball, roam, move into channels for example. Their goal seems to be to stop central play in defensive phases so I’d set them up in positions to create that.

- the midfield 3 assist in overloading the wide areas, so perhaps two mezzalas on support to promote defending/counter pressing the wider areas as well as supporting the full backs and roaming dual 10s?

After watching the game yesterday, this is the way Gerrard lined the team up, front 3 very narrow and midfielders helping out wide in offence and defence. Letting Brighton have lots of the ball across there back 3 and staying compact in the middle of the pitch  

So think for FM you are correct with starting formation needing to be Christmas tree. Replicating the correct roles in FM is now the fun part! 

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

11 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

After watching the game yesterday, this is the way Gerrard lined the team up, front 3 very narrow and midfielders helping out wide in offence and defence. Letting Brighton have lots of the ball across there back 3 and staying compact in the middle of the pitch  

So think for FM you are correct with starting formation needing to be Christmas tree. Replicating the correct roles in FM is now the fun part! 

Getting that pressing out wide would suggest not playing narrow defensive width to me. Or going with opp instructions

[HotPizza87]

If you set your 2 AM players to mark opposition full backs you could achieve better defensive coverage on the wings and they would be more likely to receive the ball in half spaces following transition.

That said, all my FM experiences of specific marking that drags attackers out of position ended in complete failure and low average ratings of the players instructed.

If you did that the AM space could be vacant, so you could play an F9 as the STC and get away with both AMs being on attack duty.

Edited November 21, 2021 by HotPizza87

[HowzatFM]

On 21/11/2021 at 10:49, benhoward12 said:

After watching the game yesterday, this is the way Gerrard lined the team up, front 3 very narrow and midfielders helping out wide in offence and defence. Letting Brighton have lots of the ball across there back 3 and staying compact in the middle of the pitch  

So think for FM you are correct with starting formation needing to be Christmas tree. Replicating the correct roles in FM is now the fun part! 

Looking back at some of the game and some analysis on twitter, really noticed how the front 3 are narrow in line together, think a flat 433 is could actually be the way to go to reflect the defensive shape. With wide strikers instructed to move into channels etc, and outside mids stay wider with more aggressive pressing instructions.

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

18 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Looking back at some of the game and some analysis on twitter, really noticed how the front 3 are narrow in line together, think a flat 433 is could actually be the way to go to reflect the defensive shape. With wide strikers instructed to move into channels etc, and outside mids stay wider with more aggressive pressing instructions.

Couple of things I can't get right with this. The pressing is one. The front three pressed hard but also the team very much kept its shape and forced the opposition down either side of them.

 

Also the shape. 4321 xmas tree makes sense but it doesn't create those 2 lines of flat 3 up front and in midfield. Maybe flat 433 with either two F9s or F9 / DlF?

[beverage1982]

Finally getting somewhere with this. Beaten Liverpool and Utd 3-1 and SPurs 4-2. We are conceding a lot of late goals though, which may just be a fad but I think due to new pressing mechanics I need to adapt and reduce pressing and pace etc to see out games...as I'd love some more clean sheets. 

What I'm loving most about this is the F9s. They're so customizable. Bailey I've tweaked to play mroe like a winger, Buendia a traditional 10. The midfield too is very customisable. This is my adventurous set up but against top teams. Mezzala becomes a Carrielo.

You can really mix and match to suit your opponents. 

Will keep playing to see how it develops but I'm liking it so far, though I desperately need to buy soem backup FBs as this is going to be taxing on them physically. 

[HowzatFM]

12 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Finally getting somewhere with this. Beaten Liverpool and Utd 3-1 and SPurs 4-2. We are conceding a lot of late goals though, which may just be a fad but I think due to new pressing mechanics I need to adapt and reduce pressing and pace etc to see out games...as I'd love some more clean sheets. 

What I'm loving most about this is the F9s. They're so customizable. Bailey I've tweaked to play mroe like a winger, Buendia a traditional 10. The midfield too is very customisable. This is my adventurous set up but against top teams. Mezzala becomes a Carrielo.

You can really mix and match to suit your opponents. 

Will keep playing to see how it develops but I'm liking it so far, though I desperately need to buy soem backup FBs as this is going to be taxing on them physically. 

I’ve also been testing and using the flat 4-3-3, but using DLP (D) in the middle and then MEZ (su) and CAR (su) either side.

Been tinkering with the front 3, Currently using 2 DLFs either side of AF, but might try F9s, what individual instructions have you opted for?

Agreed with the wing backs, they have to put in a shift! but I really like how much room and space they have in this narrow 433

Edited November 23, 2021 by benhoward12

[beverage1982]

16 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

I’ve also been testing and using the flat 4-3-3, but using DLP (D) in the middle and then MEZ (su) and CAR (su) either side.

Been tinkering with the front 3, Currently using 2 DLFs either side of AF, but might try F9s, what individual instructions have you opted for?

Agreed with the wing backs, they have to put in a shift! but I really like how much room and space they have in this narrow 433

Sorry I just realized I'm flipflopping between accounts as I'm on different devices. 

For Bailey it'smjuist Roam and play wide. For Buendia Roam and Move into Channels. 

I'll be honest, this tactic is really starting to feel like a bit of an exploit. It's just banging in goals for fun and both Bailey and Watkins have 10 each by October with Buendia on about 15 assists. Add to that Man City are chasing Matt Targett for 60 million quiod and it feels like I've broken the game a little  

I've recently switched things up a little as our lack of clean sheets was frankly embarassing. I've dropped down to balanced now which feels a lot more, well, balanced. Though I miss spanking 6 past various opponents and scoring almost at will. 

[(sic)]

32 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

I'll be honest, this tactic is really starting to feel like a bit of an exploit. It's just banging in goals for fun and both Bailey and Watkins have 10 each by October with Buendia on about 15 assists. Add to that Man City are chasing Matt Targett for 60 million quiod and it feels like I've broken the game a little  

That always seemed to be the case with the flat 4-3-3 formation (Or any formation that uses 3 strikers), it's just too easy to score goals with it.

I'm playing a similar tactic, it's more similar to Ancelotti's 4-3-2-1. My striker is a Poacher wih AM-S and AM-A behind him.

[HowzatFM]

46 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Sorry I just realized I'm flipflopping between accounts as I'm on different devices. 

For Bailey it'smjuist Roam and play wide. For Buendia Roam and Move into Channels. 

I'll be honest, this tactic is really starting to feel like a bit of an exploit. It's just banging in goals for fun and both Bailey and Watkins have 10 each by October with Buendia on about 15 assists. Add to that Man City are chasing Matt Targett for 60 million quiod and it feels like I've broken the game a little  

I've recently switched things up a little as our lack of clean sheets was frankly embarassing. I've dropped down to balanced now which feels a lot more, well, balanced. Though I miss spanking 6 past various opponents and scoring almost at will. 

Interesting 😂Yeah I understand what you are saying, but it’s the best way of achieving the narrow shape that Gerrard uses! 

Edited November 24, 2021 by benhoward12

[beverage1982]

3 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Interesting 😂Yeah I understand what you are saying, but it’s the best way of achieving the narrow shape that Gerrard uses! 

Oh I agree. My current game is nuts though. 7 points clear at Xmas. On an 11 game unbeaten streak. 10 each for Buendia, Bailey and Watkins up top. Add in the easy corner and throw in goals this year and it just feels a bit exploity. Though also, feels like I've absolutely nailed the Gerrard replication, watching it in 2d it's spot on. 

[scottc87]

Hey guys have you given any specific player instructions as really interested in using this tactics for rangers as obviously have the players suited to the system.

[HowzatFM]

On 26/11/2021 at 14:47, scottc87 said:

Hey guys have you given any specific player instructions as really interested in using this tactics for rangers as obviously have the players suited to the system.

Nothing crazy, have stay wider on my wing backs, but don’t think it’s essential. Also have tackle harder on the outside mids to try and encourage pressure. 

[yellowforever]

Nice to see people finding success with a 4-3-3 flat, as it's been my go to so far on my dafuge save due to lack of available wingers. Mine doesn't look too dissimilar to yours either, with two support players either side of an AF.

[latrell]

On 23/11/2021 at 16:20, beverage1982 said:

Finally getting somewhere with this. Beaten Liverpool and Utd 3-1 and SPurs 4-2. We are conceding a lot of late goals though, which may just be a fad but I think due to new pressing mechanics I need to adapt and reduce pressing and pace etc to see out games...as I'd love some more clean sheets. 

What I'm loving most about this is the F9s. They're so customizable. Bailey I've tweaked to play mroe like a winger, Buendia a traditional 10. The midfield too is very customisable. This is my adventurous set up but against top teams. Mezzala becomes a Carrielo.

You can really mix and match to suit your opponents. 

Will keep playing to see how it develops but I'm liking it so far, though I desperately need to buy soem backup FBs as this is going to be taxing on them physically. 

could you upload this tactic looks really good i like the idea of the false 9's this looks like a good way to get the xmas tree shape that Gerrard uses.

[beverage1982]

On 29/11/2021 at 10:54, benhoward12 said:

Nothing crazy, have stay wider on my wing backs, but don’t think it’s essential. Also have tackle harder on the outside mids to try and encourage pressure. 

What are your defenmsive settings like at the moment? I'm still not happy with mine. 

[HowzatFM]

7 hours ago, beverage1982 said:

What are your defenmsive settings like at the moment? I'm still not happy with mine. 

I’ve been using: force opposition outside to create that narrow shape, Higher DL, prevent short Gk and higher LOE (sometimes standard) with more urgent pressing most of the time. 

But like you I’ve not been happy, I’ve looked in the data hub and the possession gained and defensive actions are all in our own half backed up by midfielders being in the ‘infrequently winning ball’ section of the data hub.

With the above instructions I don’t think this should really be the case especially with the addition of ‘tackle harder’ on outside mids and F9s. So unfortunately I think it’s more to do with the current state of the ME, which is really frustrating.

unless I am missing something? 

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

1 hour ago, benhoward12 said:

I’ve been using: force opposition outside to create that narrow shape, Higher DL, prevent short Gk and higher LOE (sometimes standard) with more urgent pressing most of the time. 

But like you I’ve not been happy, I’ve looked in the data hub and the possession gained and defensive actions are all in our own half backed up by midfielders being in the ‘infrequently winning ball’ section of the data hub.

With the above instructions I don’t think this should really be the case especially with the addition of ‘tackle harder’ on outside mids and F9s. So unfortunately I think it’s more to do with the current state of the ME, which is really frustrating.

unless I am missing something? 

Yeah I've read pressing is a bit borked right now. I guess you'd need to use Oppo instructions to trigger it?

 

I'm playing similar. Though mainly standard LOE or sometimes even lower as I notice the front three tend to block passing lanes more than press too high. Though tbh they do both which is hard to replicate.

 

Defensive width is an interesting one..I agree with you. But have been investigating standard and wider as it's a narrow formation anyway and I want to counter that.

 

None of it quite feels right yet though. 

[HowzatFM]

Hoping the ME update might of fixed a few things, going to go back into the save tonight and see

[HowzatFM]

After playing around with a few roles etc, this is my current setup. The results have been promising. 

 

However after looking at the data hub, a few things I would like to improve and open to ideas

-  Although accurate, our passess attempted per game are among the lowest in the league bro g ranked 20th for total passes this season. I would like to progress to more poession based (Like Gerrard has said he would like to do)

- Defensive actions / possesion gained still seems to be in our own half. 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by benhoward12

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

10 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

After playing around with a few roles etc, this is my current setup. The results have been promising. 

 

However after looking at the data hub, a few things I would like to improve and open to ideas

-  Although accurate, our passess attempted per game are among the lowest in the league bro g ranked 20th for total passes this season. I would like to progress to more poession based (Like Gerrard has said he would like to do)

- Defensive actions / possesion gained still seems to be in our own half. 

 

Very similar here. Few things I'm trying.

 

1- dropping to balanced. It's more possession focussed. Also I think when you're getting fullbacks up that high the last thing you want to do is lose the ball in transition, so a bit more patience would be a good idea.

 

2- I've toyed with dropping the Mez to a Car. Mainly because of the defensive stability. 

 

3# I'm playing around with moving the CM(d) to the DM strata. It will mean the middle e aren't as wide. But if you look at the heat maps from recent games Nakamba is very deep. Would also offer more protection for the WBs. 

 

Just some food for thought. 

[HowzatFM]

On 08/12/2021 at 09:20, TheGhostofPaulLambert said:

Very similar here. Few things I'm trying.

 

1- dropping to balanced. It's more possession focussed. Also I think when you're getting fullbacks up that high the last thing you want to do is lose the ball in transition, so a bit more patience would be a good idea.

 

2- I've toyed with dropping the Mez to a Car. Mainly because of the defensive stability. 

 

3# I'm playing around with moving the CM(d) to the DM strata. It will mean the middle e aren't as wide. But if you look at the heat maps from recent games Nakamba is very deep. Would also offer more protection for the WBs. 

 

Just some food for thought. 

What’s your current set up? How are the results? 

[HowzatFM]

I wasn't happy with the defence and being caught in possession. The F9s were not performing and my front 3 became slightly isloated from the midfield. 

I have changed the WBs to (su), dropped the CM(D) to a DM(D) and changed the F9s to AM(A)s. Both are told to tackle harder, one move into channels and the other stay wider. Still have tackle harder on the outside CMs.

I've found the link up between the lines a lot better with quick short passes leading to some very nice goals.

This article is a really good read , especially in regards to the in possession showing how Villa are now more pateint, hence the Work the ball into box. 

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/12/the-tactics-behind-aston-villas-resurgence-under-steven-gerrard/

 

I've finally found some consistency with results

Hopefully more good results to come! 

Edited December 11, 2021 by benhoward12

[JoOSTAR]

4 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

I wasn't happy with the defence and being caught in possession. The F9s were not performing and my front 3 became slightly isloated from the midfield. 

I have changed the WBs to (su), dropped the CM(D) to a DM(D) and changed the F9s to AM(A)s. Both are told to tackle harder, one move into channels and the other stay wider. I've found the link up between the lines a lot better with quick short passes leading to some very nice goals.

This article is a really good read , especially in regards to the in possession showing how Villa are now more pateint, hence the Work the ball into box. 

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/12/the-tactics-behind-aston-villas-resurgence-under-steven-gerrard/

 

I've finally found some consistency with results

Hopefully more good results to come! 

Any other specific Player Instructions that you use than the ones you already mentioned?

[HowzatFM]

1 hour ago, JoOSTAR said:

Any other specific Player Instructions that you use than the ones you already mentioned?

Still using tackle harder on the 2 wide CMs

[beverage1982]

On 10/12/2021 at 21:02, benhoward12 said:

I wasn't happy with the defence and being caught in possession. The F9s were not performing and my front 3 became slightly isloated from the midfield. 

I have changed the WBs to (su), dropped the CM(D) to a DM(D) and changed the F9s to AM(A)s. Both are told to tackle harder, one move into channels and the other stay wider. Still have tackle harder on the outside CMs.

I've found the link up between the lines a lot better with quick short passes leading to some very nice goals.

This article is a really good read , especially in regards to the in possession showing how Villa are now more pateint, hence the Work the ball into box. 

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/12/the-tactics-behind-aston-villas-resurgence-under-steven-gerrard/

 

I've finally found some consistency with results

Hopefully more good results to come! 

Interesting, I'll give this a little look. I did really like the movement of the F9s but I also found that too often the AF would perform horrible, probably because he was too isolated. How are tyou finding the WBs, are they still getting forward enough?

[HowzatFM]

28 minutes ago, beverage1982 said:

Interesting, I'll give this a little look. I did really like the movement of the F9s but I also found that too often the AF would perform horrible, probably because he was too isolated. How are tyou finding the WBs, are they still getting forward enough?

I’ve changed the right WB to (A) now to offer a bit more going forward. Also taken off WBIB against smaller teams as it allowed them to sit back against me

I found exactly the same with the AF and the F9s, it’s definitely a difficult balance to get right. 

I’ve still don’t think I’ve found the best solution in regards to getting the outside mids to close down the opposition full backs and attacking mids come inside, might be hard to replicated on FM, any ideas with instructions / OIs from anyone? 
 

You played much lately? 

Edited December 14, 2021 by benhoward12

[beverage1982]

3 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

I’ve changed the right WB to (A) now to offer a bit more going forward. Also taken off WBIB against smaller teams as it allowed them to sit back against me

I found exactly the same with the AF and the F9s, it’s definitely a difficult balance to get right. 

I’ve still don’t think I’ve found the best solution in regards to getting the outside mids to close down the opposition full backs and attacking mids come inside, might be hard to replicated on FM, any ideas with instructions / OIs from anyone? 
 

You played much lately? 

Haven't had much of a chance to play at all lately but will try to jump on soon and tinker with this.

One thing I found that could help to encourage the outside CMs was wide defensive width. But i've never used it before and it understandably opened up gaps inside. Might be worth experimenting with though. 

[HowzatFM]

Just now, beverage1982 said:

Haven't had much of a chance to play at all lately but will try to jump on soon and tinker with this.

One thing I found that could help to encourage the outside CMs was wide defensive width. But i've never used it before and it understandably opened up gaps inside. Might be worth experimenting with though. 

Yeah will change to standard first, see if it’s any better. Some games I have been overrun and it could be because of the space in the wings so hopefully this will help 
 

 

[yellowforever]

Watched the Villa game tonight and it definitely looked like a Christmas tree to me. The two behind the striker seem to attack and defend very narrow - probably too narrow to be 4-3-3 wide. Might try and whip up a Christmas Tree tactic in game and see how it plays out.

[HowzatFM]

48 minutes ago, yellowforever said:

Watched the Villa game tonight and it definitely looked like a Christmas tree to me. The two behind the striker seem to attack and defend very narrow - probably too narrow to be 4-3-3 wide. Might try and whip up a Christmas Tree tactic in game and see how it plays out.

Best we’ve played tonight with the ball, and looking very organised without the ball. Happy to let the opposition CBs have the ball, as soon as the ball goes to the full backs, the wide CMs press the full back, with AMs protect the middle. Cash had great fun tonight getting forward from right back. Starting to see that Gerrard is getting his ideas across! 

[HowzatFM]

9 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Yeah will change to standard first, see if it’s any better. Some games I have been overrun and it could be because of the space in the wings so hopefully this will help 
 

 

Seem some better results with this change. Current tactic is below. Both WBs instructed to stay wider. Outside CMs told to tackle harder. Both AMs instructed to tackle harder and move into channels. 

 

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

9 hours ago, benhoward12 said:

Seem some better results with this change. Current tactic is below. Both WBs instructed to stay wider. Outside CMs told to tackle harder. Both AMs instructed to tackle harder and move into channels. 

 

I like this. I'd be tempted to change up one of the AMs to support just for the variety.

 

Also I'm.nt sure on the striker role..I've been using AF myself but it feels too reductive for what Watkins seemed to do last night.