edit: 541 conceding the same goals

[fraudiola]

currently 11 spots above predicted in first place so i'd say the tactic is superb but 5 of our 7 draws are against sides that park the bus, congest the center and we don't create enough against these sides. with how pressing works right now it's a double edged sword, press incredibly high to win the ball back and they usually just end up launching a long pass behind for their pacey advanced forward or we sit back and not concede these long pass goals and let them continue passing endlessly. on the offensive side of things, not enough chances are being created against these sides. not enough space is being created. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by fraudiola

[Adonalsium]

Against sides that park the bus, maybe try switching up the tactic a little bit. First of all, make your wingbacks your wide men; wingbacks on support. Then move your wide forwards into the middle. 5-2-1-2 shape, even. You'll add more midfield presence that way and be able to hopefully park in their half.

[Sharkn20]

Maybe change that CF-At to AF-At to challenge their back line constantly.

Then that T-At into IF-AT and that W-Su in W- At. That way you will have 3 potential runners into the oposition area.

That IW needs to give width so WB-Su should do. Also tick the Move futher forward in both WBs or cross from the byline to make sure the are providing that width all the way.

CM-De is fine to recycle but that MEZ-At needs to be marauding the area and spraying passes to the runners, so maybe CM-Su is better.

I haven't use WCBs yet but maybe having them in Su, instead of Su / At to create triangles will be better.

In the TI part, you are facilitating their low block with high press, so they are not going to come out. Easy the pressing a bit to invite them to come forwards and hit them with more space.

 

Alternative as it was told above is more likely that as your team gets better, you have this problem more often, so having a formation with 2 strikers and plenty runners into the area is something that you have to start preparing. Including players with high vision and off the ball.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Sharkn20

[crusadertsar]

It makes little sense to play a three in the back formation against a side that parks the bus wouldn't you think? How does it help to break them down by packing your own backline. I would try a more top-heavy formation with more attacking options such as 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 (or even narrow diamond 4-4-2).

[fraudiola]

On 22/11/2021 at 13:33, Sharkn20 said:

Maybe change that CF-At to AF-At to challenge their back line constantly.

that made a huge difference as CF was dropping too deep. pretty much solved the issue. 

this is close to perfect now, 24 wins/1 draw/1 loss this season, but there's still some issues with the combination of roles on the left flank. 

LW, LCM, LWB left flank ends up in almost a straight line at times. LCM constantly drifts wide which kills the passing triangle, he has hold position PI too. 

 

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

It makes little sense to play a three in the back formation against a side that parks the bus wouldn't you think? How does it help to break them down by packing your own backline. I would try a more top-heavy formation with more attacking options such as 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 (or even narrow diamond 4-4-2).

its a 2 at the back when on the attack with the RWB on support duty acting as DM. 

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

that made a huge difference as CF was dropping too deep. pretty much solved the issue. 

this is close to perfect now, 24 wins/1 draw/1 loss this season, but there's still some issues with the combination of roles on the left flank. 

LW, LCM, LWB left flank ends up in almost a straight line at times. LCM constantly drifts wide which kills the passing triangle, he has hold position PI too. 

 

its a 2 at the back when on the attack with the RWB on support duty acting as DM. 

I am not familiar with the T, maybe change it for IF-At that should make that player drift in and allow room for the WB. Creating that triangle again.

[fraudiola]

now i've got an issue conceding identical goals. most goals from open play has been the same. CB pushes forward gets tight to the ST, a through ball gets played behind and the CB ends up having to change direction to move back and gets beat, neither WCBs even attempts to come across and cover. no marks tight PPM. started off with BDPd. changed to BPDx to be more proactive at cutting out the pass, didn't work, same thing kept happening. changed to BPDc and still the exact same thing keeps happening. 

 

 

  

#5 CB on cover duty moves out and sticks to #9 like white on rice, no marking instructions or PPM and gets beat when the pass is made cause he has to turn and run while the ST is already moving that direction. LCB #32 does absolutely nothing. 

 

 

 

this time #4 comes all the way out where #5 is, sticking to the ST and a ball is played over the top for #6 who runs in behind to score while #31 didnt come across for an easy intercepttion cause hes glued to #9. 

 

 

#4 comes out to meet #15 while the ST is running full speed at him. #13 did not come across at all, not even after #15 was well past #4. 

 

 

 

as soon as they win the ball back for a counter my CB runs straight at the ST to mark him for whatever reason while their striker runs right past him as the #8 plays a through ball behind while my RCB just stays in his position. 

 

 

this one isn't that bad tbf, RCB comes forward anticipating the pass to #10 while my RWB lets his man go and a ball is played to him but again look at my CB #4 just glued to their striker #11 and for how long he stuck with him. i'd expect a defender on cover to stay a bit behind to sweep up these sorts of balls. 

 

 

aside from a few more not so obvious but similar goals, these are quite literally the only open play goals we've conceded lately. 

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, fraudiola said:

now i've got an issue conceding identical goals. most goals from open play has been the same. CB pushes forward gets tight to the ST, a through ball gets played behind and the CB ends up having to change direction to move back and gets beat, neither WCBs even attempts to come across and cover. no marks tight PPM. started off with BDPd. changed to BPDx to be more proactive at cutting out the pass, didn't work, same thing kept happening. changed to BPDc and still the exact same thing keeps happening. 

 

 

  

#5 CB on cover duty moves out and sticks to #9 like white on rice, no marking instructions or PPM and gets beat when the pass is made cause he has to turn and run while the ST is already moving that direction. LCB #32 does absolutely nothing. 

 

 

 

this time #4 comes all the way out where #5 is, sticking to the ST and a ball is played over the top for #6 who runs in behind to score while #31 didnt come across for an easy intercepttion cause hes glued to #9. 

 

 

#4 comes out to meet #15 while the ST is running full speed at him. #13 did not come across at all, not even after #15 was well past #4. 

 

 

 

as soon as they win the ball back for a counter my CB runs straight at the ST to mark him for whatever reason while their striker runs right past him as the #8 plays a through ball behind while my RCB just stays in his position. 

 

 

this one isn't that bad tbf, RCB comes forward anticipating the pass to #10 while my RWB lets his man go and a ball is played to him but again look at my CB #4 just glued to their striker #11 and for how long he stuck with him. i'd expect a defender on cover to stay a bit behind to sweep up these sorts of balls. 

 

 

aside from a few more not so obvious but similar goals, these are quite literally the only open play goals we've conceded lately. 

What kind of formation and roles is AI using against you in these cases? Just curious because I'm currently trying to figure out how to beat three in the back formations like yours (so far have been my nemesis in all my saves in FM22) and this gives me a glimmer of hope haha.

[Sharkn20]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

What kind of formation and roles is AI using against you in these cases? Just curious because I'm currently trying to figure out how to beat three in the back formations like yours (so far have been my nemesis in all my saves in FM22) and this gives me a glimmer of hope haha.

You want to play wide, with runners in the channels against 3 at the back, or 5 if we include WBs.

That's IF + WB or W with AP / FB.

The key is to create 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 situations, then have runners in the channel left by the CB when they go to cover your superior numbers. Or getting a strong and tall striker and get crosses to him.

[fraudiola]

11 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

What kind of formation and roles is AI using against you in these cases? Just curious because I'm currently trying to figure out how to beat three in the back formations like yours (so far have been my nemesis in all my saves in FM22) and this gives me a glimmer of hope haha.

how do i check the AI's setup?

seems like all you need is a pacey advanced forward. that's how i beat high lines too, start spamming long balls to AF and it'll feel like an exploit. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by fraudiola

[crusadertsar]

Just now, fraudiola said:

how do i check the AI's setup?

seems like all you need is a pacey advanced forward. that's how i beat high lines too, start spamming long balls to AF and it'll feel like an exploit. 

You will see AI set-up including roles after about 15 minutes playing the match. In your in-match analysis. You can also see after the match when you check the highlights and report.

[fraudiola]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

You will see AI set-up including roles after about 15 minutes playing the match. In your in-match analysis. You can also see after the match when you check the highlights and report.

what about looking at past games? 

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, fraudiola said:

what about looking at past games? 

Exactly when you check the highlights for past games you should be able to find it in the analytics tab.

[fraudiola]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Exactly when you check the highlights for past games you should be able to find it in the analytics tab.

where exactly? 

[crusadertsar]

8 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

where exactly? 

When you click on teams tab? Don't you get to see the formation that AI used? I can't remember exactly because I'm not on my computer.

Edited November 24, 2021 by crusadertsar

[fraudiola]

7 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

When you click on teams tab? Don't you get to see the formation that I used? I can't remember exactly because I'm not on my computer.

na xbox edition maybe why? i can see it during the game via the touchline tablet

[crusadertsar]

Just now, fraudiola said:

na xbox edition maybe why? i can see it during the game via the touchline tablet

I have no idea if Xbox edition has that feature then.

[GIMN]

Glad you've found a solution, but here's a few other suggestions worth trying when struggling to break teams down:

• Decrease tempo/remove counter - these both lead to you trying to force the issue, and sometimes a little patience is all it takes
• Drop mentality - like above, this can help you be a bit more patient in waiting for the right opportunity to play someone in
• Increase width - if the centre is congested, try and stretch the opposition; combined with lower tempo it can help tire out the opposition
• Drop LOE and counter-press - if trying to counter, this can help encourage the opposition players to advance more, creating space in behind
• Remove work ball into box - if they're playing deep, just roll the proverbial dice; more shots means more opportunity for a lucky deflection, a corner or a save parried into the path of your striker

Obviously it's not a case of doing all of the above at the same time, but I have found these to be situationally useful in breaking down stubborn teams.

[fraudiola]

20 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

What kind of formation and roles is AI using against you in these cases? Just curious because I'm currently trying to figure out how to beat three in the back formations like yours (so far have been my nemesis in all my saves in FM22) and this gives me a glimmer of hope haha.

this season we haven't conceded the same way with just an AF in the previous post but still conceding similar type of goals. 3 out of last 4 games were against teams playing with DLF and AM combination (the touchline tablet doesn't show duty). CB would just handcuff himself to the ST and go wayyyyy out of his position. in one game we conceded a goal where the DLF and CB were practically next to the RCB with the center completely open for a pass to the AM making a run right down center with the LCB staying in his position and not covering to intercept the through ball. 

 

bonus: some fifa level of nonsense. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by fraudiola

[Sharkn20]

40 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

this season we haven't conceded the same way with just an AF in the previous post but still conceding similar type of goals. 3 out of last 4 games were against teams playing with DLF and AM combination (the touchline tablet doesn't show duty). CB would just handcuff himself to the ST and go wayyyyy out of his position. in one game we conceded a goal where the DLF and CB were practically next to the RCB with the center completely open for a pass to the AM making a run right down center with the LCB staying in his position and not covering to intercept the through ball. 

 

bonus: some fifa level of nonsense. 

 

The offense also plays man, you are not going to concede no goals during the season.

That's a lost ball in your own field in which they counter you, to finish the ST had better aerials than your CB. Maybe low positioning / marking / concentration attributes are in play there also.

[crusadertsar]

47 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

this season we haven't conceded the same way with just an AF in the previous post but still conceding similar type of goals. 3 out of last 4 games were against teams playing with DLF and AM combination (the touchline tablet doesn't show duty). CB would just handcuff himself to the ST and go wayyyyy out of his position. in one game we conceded a goal where the DLF and CB were practically next to the RCB with the center completely open for a pass to the AM making a run right down center with the LCB staying in his position and not covering to intercept the through ball. 

 

bonus: some fifa level of nonsense. 

 

Interesting. Coincidentally, I'm seeing the DLF(s) + Shadow Striker as especially potent combination this year. Especially if the DLF is a technically capable player and is told to roam around. And if AI plays a playmaker like Deeplying Playmaker in midfield while a more dynamic wingback to provide crosses on one side. That can probably do quite a bit of damage to any side.

[fraudiola]

46 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

The offense also plays man, you are not going to concede no goals during the season.

That's a lost ball in your own field in which they counter you, to finish the ST had better aerials than your CB. Maybe low positioning / marking / concentration attributes are in play there also.

the video is unrelated to the issue im facing. its just a fifa type BS because IRL if a player goes down like that without being able to kick it out then its probably something serious and the other team would kick it out or the ref would blow the whistle and stop play. 

 

35 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Interesting. Coincidentally, I'm seeing the DLF(s) + Shadow Striker as especially potent combination this year. Especially if the DLF is a technically capable player and is told to roam around. And if AI plays a playmaker like Deeplying Playmaker in midfield while a more dynamic wingback to provide crosses on one side. That can probably do quite a bit of damage to any side.

yea ive seen a lot of download tactics with SS. of course it all makes sense but the way it plays out doesn't. 

[Sharkn20]

3 hours ago, fraudiola said:

the video is unrelated to the issue im facing. its just a fifa type BS because IRL if a player goes down like that without being able to kick it out then its probably something serious and the other team would kick it out or the ref would blow the whistle and stop play. 

 

yea ive seen a lot of download tactics with SS. of course it all makes sense but the way it plays out doesn't. 

I don't know what Country you live in, or what leagues you follow, but many times in some of the leagues I follow the play just continues unless the ref stops the play, specially in a counter attack situation.

[fraudiola]

31 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

I don't know what Country you live in, or what leagues you follow, but many times in some of the leagues I follow the play just continues unless the ref stops the play, specially in a counter attack situation.

sure if its due to a tackle or something. in what world is a player going to ground with no opposition player near him not a serious enough issue for the ref to stop play? 

[Sharkn20]

8 hours ago, fraudiola said:

sure if its due to a tackle or something. in what world is a player going to ground with no opposition player near him not a serious enough issue for the ref to stop play? 

That's a strength check, if one overwhelms the other then they fall to the ground, no foul.

[ScotsmanFM]

I was having this problem, every team and tactic are different though but I dropped my defensive line back one spot and changed my CB roles to WCB L (A), CD M (D) and BPD R (D). We went on a run of 7 games without conceding after making the change.

[fraudiola]

2 hours ago, ScotsmanFM said:

I was having this problem, every team and tactic are different though but I dropped my defensive line back one spot and changed my CB roles to WCB L (A), CD M (D) and BPD R (D). We went on a run of 7 games without conceding after making the change.

without conceding that type of goal where the CB just follows the striker way out or just conceding in general?