How can Salah play 50+ games a season?

[AurioDK]

Real life Liverpool must be doing something I can´t at Wrexham, I have top notch coaches, medical staff and the best training facilities money can buy. Liverpool had in 2020-21 5 players with 50+ games under their belt, I am forced to rotate far more and anyone reaching 40 games is an accomplishment. This season due to constant small injuries which appear every single week, be it a cold/virus or whatever, I have been forced to rotate heavily, far more than any team in real life PL. This is excluding long term injuries.

Liverpool is a good example as their tactics require a lot of stamina and good natural fitness, something all my players have in abundance. With 2 days apart between matches it becomes obvious in FM that many of my players simply can´t handle two matches in a row, setting extra rest schedules doesn´t really seem to help much.

I checked FM Liverpool as they won the league by a landslide in 2030, they too actually rotate far more than real life Liverpool. Klopp is still their coach, they have no one doing 43+ games and have used their entire reserve bench quite extensively. Games expected for a real life Liverpool reserve on average: 9,3 ... Fm : 20,1. This is taking Euro Cup and CL into account.

I am forced to constantly rotate heavily even though I try to change the pace in games, 39 is the most I have gotten out of a player with a heavy schedule in 2030 and that was pushing it, he was often tired, jaded and whatnot.

Salah is not the only one in the Liverpool squad making 45+ games a season, many of their star players do it. Do they have access to some sort of special rehab training between matches which we can´t apply to our players?

On top of the above I had jaded players after 8-9 games into the season, this was mainly due to internationals which cause jadedness to some players, not all. I had to send 3 players on 2 weeks hollidays after which I had no problems.

 

So, do real life teams have access to some sort of special treatment for star players enabling them to play almost every match?

[MasterKano]

I find AI controlled teams break the rules quite noticeably with regards to fitness/freshness and injury resistance but this is heavily concentrated towards the higher tier teams in the highest rated leagues this may be due to the fact that their tactical decisions are far less rigorous than a players controlled team, this also likely goes for training schedules.

[AurioDK]

48 minutes ago, MasterKano said:

I find AI controlled teams break the rules quite noticeably with regards to fitness/freshness and injury resistance but this is heavily concentrated towards the higher tier teams in the highest rated leagues this may be due to the fact that their tactical decisions are far less rigorous than a players controlled team, this also likely goes for training schedules.

 

Perhaps, havn´t checked injuries with the other squads, can´t tell. I did however check that FM Liverpool rotates far more than real life Liverpool, no one in FM Liverpool is playing 45+ games a season and many playing far below that. So, it doesn´t feel like the AI is cheating in that regard.

 

I did notice a substantial injury problem with any of my players performing well above average, this is probably due to the AI issuing man marking orders and hard tackling on anyone doing well, I can guarantee that Salah would NEVER get 50+ games a season if I managed Liverpool in FM, that´s 100% sure. He would be  targetted and kicked out of the games. This is again not cheating, you can do the exact same thing to the AI, the realism of targetting other players for injury is however questionable.

Edited December 1, 2021 by AurioDK

[kepz]

Medical staff, training facilities, training workload, training intensity, and your own ability to properly manager your players health all factor into this, but...

6 hours ago, AurioDK said:

Liverpool is a good example as their tactics require a lot of stamina and good natural fitness, something all my players have in abundance. With 2 days apart between matches it becomes obvious in FM that many of my players simply can´t handle two matches in a row, setting extra rest schedules doesn´t really seem to help much.

I don't think it is unreasonable that Wrexham players cannot perform at Liverpool's level but perhaps I am mistaken. 

[Domathon]

If training intensity is high u can do 20-30 games with a naturally fit player, if u want 45 games he need stamina nautical fitness and his training all season need to be average/light 

[Platinum]

Its about how you manage their training. You definitely can play some players that often. Make use of the medical centre to know when to reduce a players training load and dont be afraid to play a player when there stamina isnt completely full.

[AurioDK]

I wish you could set training to automatic physio recommendation, would make things a lot easier.

[STaphouse]

I easily get 40+ games out of my players and that's with playing a pressing system. 

I give my players 2 days rest from training after matches though. 

[Ripamaru]

Like others have said you need to give them 2 days rest after matches. Do it consistently. Even when you have a week between matches. It will keep that fatigue from building up so much over the course of a season.

You lose a bit of development for younger players missing training but I find you make up for it being able to get them more matches. 

I got my starters between 40-50 matches at Sunderland in League 1 except 4 that had injuries. I didn't have to depth to rotate heavily. Had I not given them those days off my lack of quality depth would have severely hindered my ability to compete for the league title (that I won).

 

[dunk105]

14 hours ago, STaphouse said:

I easily get 40+ games out of my players and that's with playing a pressing system. 

I give my players 2 days rest from training after matches though. 

Understandable this working in game but do clubs give players that amount of time off in real life.....No.

Absolutely agree there are ways to manage this, but this feels like something that has been implemented without thought to how fit players are in modern football.

[dunk105]

On 02/12/2021 at 01:26, Renyy said:

Give players 2 days rest after games and they can easily play 40+ games. 

Yes, because real life players only train 57% of the time.....this factoring in one of the days (or even 2) in a week being a matchday, Managers even say irl that players are paid to train, and on that performance they may get selected.

[ScotsmanFM]

I had 7 players with 50+ appearances either Hearts. Two days rest after games, not a massively intensive tactic, not an intensive training regime and you're good to go. Yes players play 50+ times a week plus training irl but, while SI try to get as much realism as possible, it is still only a game and you need to work around it.

[rsihn]

There are a lot of things you can do to lighten the players workload to keep them fresh but all of this will require you to delve into managing the training schedules yourself rather than relying on your assman.  

Most people are telling you to give the players 2 days off after a match but I prefer to double up on recovery sessions the day after the match and then schedule an extremely low intensity session the next day rather than give the full day off.  This would be a match prep session such as teamwork, match tactics, attacking movement, or defensive shape.  These all register as a tiny blue sliver for intensity but keep your players from losing cohesion.  You can leave it at that if you want your players to really rest up or you can throw another light session in there which increases their happiness.  This would be most of the general training or technical sessions.  All of this will result in a light workload for your players while still allowing for a bit of development.  

The most important aspect of taking control of training though would be to remove the physically intensive training during periods of match congestion.  Your assman won't do this and will run your players into the ground with physical sessions when you are already playing 2-3 matches per week.  You can resume physical training when your team has weeks with only 1 match but you should remove all physical sessions, including Overall training, during weeks with multiple matches. 

[AurioDK]

After reading your various comments I can indeed confirm that the "2 days off" method works, as I am a real life junior coach and follow the seniors closely I would have never thought of this. Most senior players at our club do rehab and light training when congestion is a problem.

[themadsheep2001]

It comes down to training and managing their loads off the pitch. Liverpool monitor and tailor their training to keep their players out of the "red zone" so make use of the medical centre, changing their individual work loads.

[autohoratio]

10 hours ago, dunk105 said:

Yes, because real life players only train 57% of the time.....this factoring in one of the days (or even 2) in a week being a matchday, Managers even say irl that players are paid to train, and on that performance they may get selected.

If you want evidence of top clubs in real life resting their players in between matches when they have a busy schedule, look no further: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/leicester-city-news-rodgers-tielemans-22983873

Quote

The busy fixture list means Leicester have swapped training for recovery sessions and tactical analysis with boss Brendan Rodgers.

Midfielder Youri Tielemans revealed: “We don’t train much. It is more recovery and looking after our legs to manage it between the games.

“We try and do something tactically to look at the opponent we are going to play but it is all about recovery really.

They played 7 games in 22 days, which isn't exactly uncommon for teams in continental competitions.

[GIMN]

12 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

If you want evidence of top clubs in real life resting their players in between matches when they have a busy schedule, look no further: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/leicester-city-news-rodgers-tielemans-22983873

They played 7 games in 22 days, which isn't exactly uncommon for teams in continental competitions.

I agree with this completely.  Rest & recovery is a huge part of modern day "training".  That said, I think part of the problem within FM is the ease of managing this. 

• You can set a normal full schedule, but rest starters for x days after a match - this can work in managing fatigue, but also means you can't really assign those players to lighter schedules that might be appropriate and aid development.
• You can set a normal full schedule, and tinker with the intensity thresholds (half, normal, double) so the sessions are lighter for those post match - this combined with selective rest is very effective, but requires a lot of micromanagement.
• You can set a light schedule for after games, focussing on lower intensity sessions - this can help in managing fatigue, but you lose out on maximising training opportunities for those that didn't need a rest.

Personally, I like to micromanage training and rest so it isn't a problem and, for the reasons you pointed out, I feel this is quite realistic.  I can understand how this isn't everyone's cup-of-tea, though.

[Siven]

Would love if training had a few more options for first team players and rest days tbh.

I dont like micro managaing training schedules. The Assistant doesnt do a great job with it really.

A fe options like have x rest/recovery days after a match day etc. would be nice.

[Siven]

On 03/12/2021 at 06:02, AurioDK said:

After reading your various comments I can indeed confirm that the "2 days off" method works, as I am a real life junior coach and follow the seniors closely I would have never thought of this. Most senior players at our club do rehab and light training when congestion is a problem.

Is that 2 full days of rest? Or can you add recovery sessions and maybe some light schedules like att movement which keep the bar in low blue?

[themadsheep2001]

I wonder how many players use the training intensity modifiers. You actually have a lot of options to balance their workload individually. Does it require some micromanaging? Of course. But it's no different in real life since the loads on each player have differing results. Which is why they all wear trackers to see how team training affects them individually, and then their individual workload can be tailored to suit

[LokiValfar]

I generally give the players a day or two off here and there.

My first three seasons in my Man Utd save Ronaldo played a total of 153 games, but still didn't play every game (most in the league was 30).  Even Bruno Fernandes who puts in pretty much the biggest shift in my formation has played close to 50 games each season.

[AurioDK]

I can pretty much state what I did with no ill effect, I hate micro managing training and thus I found a weird solution.

 

I won the treble with Wrexham and no one trained for the last 4 months, I had a game every 3rd day and simply just set "rest 2 weeks" every 14th day. Didn´t see any arrows go down or any ill effects. I have a small squad of 22 players, rotated as much as possible as jadedness was a problem after every match ... even with no training. Couldn´t send players on holliday, that was simply not an option. They were still match available even though they all had the "rst" icon.

Liverpool had the title in their hands and with 7 consecutive titles they were very much  the favourites, everything went sour for them due to playing 5 games in 10 days. The AI couldn´t handle the fixture congestion and fielded reserves against me, the match which actually won me the title. They also had lots of players who needed rest and some were jaded, Liverpool lost 3 of their last 5 matches, mainly the ones where they fielded a B team.

 

Jadedness only seems to be a problem for those on internationals.

Edited December 6, 2021 by AurioDK

[Weller1980]

I've been managing Dulwich in the Vanarama South and played the default gegeenpress system with a squad of 17 to 18 players and my team shows no real signs of tiredness, towards the end of the match all the players are on very low fitness levels but it never affects the team, i continue to win game after game.

I was expecting to see lots of injuries and players needing rests between games etc. but nothing and this is a squad of amateurs  

[DarJ]

5 minutes ago, Weller1980 said:

I've been managing Dulwich in the Vanarama South and played the default gegeenpress system with a squad of 17 to 18 players and my team shows no real signs of tiredness, towards the end of the match all the players are on very low fitness levels but it never affects the team, i continue to win game after game.

I was expecting to see lots of injuries and players needing rests between games etc. but nothing and this is a squad of amateurs  

Keep in mind they train 2 times a week at that level I think 

[AurioDK]

7 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

I've been managing Dulwich in the Vanarama South and played the default gegeenpress system with a squad of 17 to 18 players and my team shows no real signs of tiredness, towards the end of the match all the players are on very low fitness levels but it never affects the team, i continue to win game after game.

I was expecting to see lots of injuries and players needing rests between games etc. but nothing and this is a squad of amateurs  

I had no problems either until the PL and Champions League along with the other Cups, the deal breaker are internationals though as they tend for some reason to make a lot of players jaded. You are not playing a game every 3rd day, that´s where the problem starts.