How to defend against a diamond while playing a 442

[DarJ]

I've been playing the 442 in FM22 and I understand now why it's no longer a popular formation IRL when teams started using an extra player in midfield. While it has been going well for me, I find it difficult to defend against teams that play with 2 strikers and an AM sometimes. It seems that because they have that extra player, they can easily open up my defence and I haven't found a solution yet. The tactic  will be posted bellow.

I use OIs and PI in the tactic but the main ones are, I use OI to man mark the furthest striker and tackle hard the deeper striker and the AM. In terms of PIs, the back line are asked to mark tighter, the center backs are asked to close down less and the full backs are asked to tackle hard.

All suggestions will be considered if they dont require me to change the shape. Thanks.

Edited January 5, 2022 by DarJ

[Mike_Cardinal]

I would probably use the Tighter Marking OI on the opposition AM, which should mean one of your CMs will drop deep to mark them - that's much safer than one of your CBs stepping forward out of defence, when they already have a 2v2 up front.

This leaves you man-for-man against their front three, but they will have a 3v1 left in central midfield.

To try to prevent them from playing through the middle too easily, I suggest defending more narrowly, with 'Force Opposition Outside', which should help your wide players to tuck in more and help out.

EDIT - Against strong teams, you could also ask your AF to man-mark the opposition DM. The DLF should already help out a little more in the middle without any specific instructions

Edited January 5, 2022 by Mike_Cardinal

[nidhar.ram]

Some food for thought. 

1. Defend narrow to gain superiority in the midfield

2. Apply pressure on DM (or the player who receives the most passes in midfield) and force the ball to wide areas. Use your strikers to do that.

3.

[DarJ]

22 minutes ago, Mike_Cardinal said:

I would probably use the Tighter Marking OI on the opposition AM, which should mean one of your CMs will drop deep to mark them

The reason I've not done that is that there is no guarantee that the player dropping deep is the CM. If I was sure then I'll do that no question.

25 minutes ago, Mike_Cardinal said:

I suggest defending more narrowly, with 'Force Opposition Outside'

I've tried this but it doesn't totally solve the problem. 

33 minutes ago, Mike_Cardinal said:

you could also ask your AF to man-mark the opposition DM.

I don't have problem with DMs I'm more concerned about AMs

I'm leaning towards accepting the fact that this is a problem I'll always have against those types of formation. I'm still doing well, it's more for games that I absolutely need to win so I'm prepared for it.

[Mike_Cardinal]

27 minutes ago, DarJ said:

The reason I've not done that is that there is no guarantee that the player dropping deep is the CM. If I was sure then I'll do that no question.

I've tried this but it doesn't totally solve the problem. 

I don't have problem with DMs I'm more concerned about AMs

I'm leaning towards accepting the fact that this is a problem I'll always have against those types of formation. I'm still doing well, it's more for games that I absolutely need to win so I'm prepared for it.

There's a knock-on effect, though. The AM might be the problem, but if the DM is in space, it could be making things worse.

You would need to look at your matches to diagnose it properly, but if their DM is constantly unmarked, but your FCs won't drop in on them, then your CMs could be closing down higher up the pitch to shut them down, leaving the AM free.

A flat 442 will always have this against a diamond to an extent though, you're right. Defending more narrowly should help.

The other side of the coin is that going forwards, they will have problems with you - your full backs should be free, so if you can make the most of 2v1s and overloads on the flanks, then you could make up for conceding more goals at the other end.

[CARRERA]

I dont think you will be able to solve the problem of being outnumbered in midfield, no matter how and who you mark. I would rather question if pressing high and often is the way to go against a +2 in miedfield. It should be relatively easy for them to play through the middle and pass your press. I would properbly drop lines to a mid-block and lower the pressing triggers + counterpress while defending narrow. Maybe even use a Defend duty in central midfield.

[prched55]

I think there are a few things you could try when the other teams plays with a diamond (or 3 man) midfield. 

1) If they are scoring mostly in transition then you should add a person to the DM strata. You could switch a CM to defend duty or you could make the WB an IWBde. Both of these roles should help in transition to stop them from scoring. If you go with the IWB route you may want to make your CMs a BBM or a Carrielo to help support the winger. This also shouldn't change your attacking shape too much since you'll still have that right side overload. 

2) If they are scoring mostly from sustained pressure in your defensive third, I would try dropping the pressing trigger down one and going more compact by forcing them outside. If they have more midfielders you don't want your players running around closing down because they'll always have a free player which will open you up. I'm guessing the AM gets the ball in space, your CB closes down leaving the ST open, AM passes ball to ST, they get a quality chance. 

 

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, prched55 said:

If they are scoring mostly in transition then you should add a person to the DM strata. You could switch a CM to defend duty or you could make the WB an IWBde. Both of these roles should help in transition to stop them from scoring. If you go with the IWB route you may want to make your CMs a BBM or a Carrielo to help support the winger. This also shouldn't change your attacking shape too much since you'll still have that right side overload. 

This is a valid suggestion I'll probably try with the IWB. I don't want a defend duty in midfield because they tend not to join the attack transition that much so I'd have to change the role on that flank and I don't want to do that 

[prched55]

50 minutes ago, DarJ said:

This is a valid suggestion I'll probably try with the IWB. I don't want a defend duty in midfield because they tend not to join the attack transition that much so I'd have to change the role on that flank and I don't want to do that 

I hope it works out for you!! I love the IWB on any duty in FM22. 

[Johnny Ace]

I do love a 4-4-2  I line up similar to how you have. The "golden rule" with a 4-4-2 always seemed to be, you had to have one of the CMs on Defend which I always found a bit conservative. Two CMs on Support is fine, especially a DLP, the players aren't daft & won't be holding hands when your team move up & down the pitch. If an opposition AM is causing you problems, it might be worth trying him on a Defend duty. The left hand side looks very adventurous, so I'd look out for that causing you any problems  

Whenever I try & counteract an opposition shape, I always fall short & concentrate on my team's shape advantage. In this case it's the flanks, so you could try focusing play down both wings, maybe add an over/under lap on the right to encourage it some more. The DLP will take out some of that advantage as he'll attract the ball into a pretty congestion area of the pitch  

 

[Sneaky Pete]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

The "golden rule" with a 4-4-2 always seemed to be, you had to have one of the CMs on Defend

I think this is perhaps on over-interpretation of the "golden rule" of a 4-4-2 midfield partnership.

You need a holding role. That doesn't necessarily mean a Defend duty. If anything, you want to avoid defend duties in the midfield partnership of a 4-4-2 if you want to recreate the IRL banks-of-four defensive structure.

As for OP's issue, there are some great suggestions in terms of defending narrower and trying to disrupt build-up/mark out the AM, but the reality is that the 4-1-4-1 diamond is one of the harder counters to your formation. The only matchup I can think of that is arguably worse is the 5-3-2.

[DarJ]

4 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

The left hand side looks very adventurous, so I'd look out for that causing you any problems  

Im pretty happy with that side of the pitch. I initially had  the FB on support but the WB on attack just go forward and the cm is left with no options to pass to and I didn't want to change the duty of the W so I just changed to the WB instead

[lfds89]

4-4-2 vs 4-1-2-1-2 statically means you can put pressure on their backline (4x4), you have advantage on the wings (4x2) but you lose in the middle (2x4) and your backline will also be under pressure (4x4). Taking this into consideration, you can dynamically change this in your favor even without changing shape. My ideas:

Defend narrower - so you push your fbs inside so they help your cbs and track cms running into the area

Man Mark CDM with deeper striker - your cms are outnumbered, when the ball is on their cdm, one of them will leave the position to press him and they'll leave too much space for the spare cm and the cam

Play your lines closer: Standard/High (LOE/DL) or High/Much Higher - they have 2 players between the lines and that'll kill the space for them

Set the OIs - fbs and cms with show outside foot

Rethink roles and duties - DLP will ask for the ball but he has no space. Maybe change him to a more defensive minded role (or even with a defensive duty) and you can probably change one of the wide players to WP. 

 

Alternatively, you can try to ask your wingers to man mark the opposition cms so your cms are free to press the cdm and cam

[nully29]

Try Regroup. With 442 it is important to keep shape when defending.  Other suggestions above are good too.

[DarJ]

18 hours ago, lfds89 said:

4-4-2 vs 4-1-2-1-2

When I said diamond I meant teams that okay with 2 strikers and an AM. I've not played against the 41212 yet but your tips will still be helpful

[De Nile]

The most important thing to remember in a diamond is it is reliant on wingbacks so specifically use your wingers to man mark them  also it is would be best to mark the dm as the wingbacks are occupied so you can use your DLF(s) to do that from then on you have the two midfielders and you should press smart against them and block any passing lane to the amc, use OI's and be reasonable with pressing then play wide and/or fluid/direct counter 

[Mitja]

Defend duty MC 

Both MCs close down less

Support duty FC

Drop lines

Defend narrower

Exploit flanks

 

 

 

 

[HanziZoloman]

Hi all,

i am Reading this with some interest as I had 5 seasons with 442 recently.

I am interested in what kinds of problems @DarJ has got with this AM and two striker set up?

there are some solutions, especially as I like a support partnership in CM as well. A 442 has many positives in vertical space as it covers the pitch well but negatives in horizontal space between the lines of four. Many points address this:

- one striker marking the DM 

- using the FB to help out 

one other point is, if you compress the space between your lines of 4 their AM will have a tight place to operate. You can even set LoE on low and your DL in much higher plus adding offside trap which will reduce the space horizontally the most without playing a DM or CMd. Of course you should not press to hard but stay compact and tight reducing space and passing lanes.
But you still should watch what’s happening in the half-spaces between your CD and your FB, how do the opposition use the majority in space in front of your DL? 
Here you can adopt to the situation by reducing space and going narrow or forcing wide if opposing CM are going more wide. Of course it makes sense to keep your widemen busy with the opponents FB. 
I’d suggest careful balanced sides with enough support, if your Winger is on Attack I’d play a FB instead of a WB because if you lose the ball up front your open.

[DarJ]

2 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

if you compress the space between your lines of 4 their AM will have a tight place to operate

In one of my European conference game, I switched to lower LOE and much lower DL then reduced the pressing to less. I also asked my CB not to press and it worked but there was still one or 2 occasions where they were still able to play through it.

[HanziZoloman]

You mean much higher DL (?)

bit you won’t be able to shut it down completely as it’s a natural weakness that comes with a 442. Being aware of it is a good thing.

[DarJ]

4 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

You mean much higher DL (?)

much lower. The idea was to restrict space behind but give them space in front and we can hopefully win the ball back by making tackles and blocks

[HanziZoloman]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb DarJ:

much lower. The idea was to restrict space behind but give them space in front and we can hopefully win the ball back by making tackles and blocks

That’s something different. If it went well then that’s the best. Good luck with the save 

[vrig]

OI's would be how I'd go. Show the RCB to his right and the LCB to his left, while tightly marking the 2 CM's. That should force them to play through their fullbacks - out wide where you have the numerical advantage. 

Those fullbacks can then become pressing triggers, and if you show them onto the "correct side" again, they'll be pressed from infield, as show onto foot now affects pressing angles (thereby blocking passes into midfield, where they have the number).

Basically, rather than changing your shape, change where you let them play. This will obviously work best if your forwards and wingers are able to press effectively and your CM's are decent with marking and acceleration. Since you'd also now be funnelling them wide, you'd naturally expect your CB's to have crosses to deal with too - depends on the quality matchup.

I'd also suggest altering your GK Distribution slightly, as you don't want to put your own CB's under unessecary pressure when they're 2v2 at all times. So I'd just go with short kicks to the fullbacks, who have no natural marker vs a diamond, and would therefore be the logical outlets.