[FM24] [WIP] Iron Curtain 1988 - If you rebuild it, it will come.

[Wolf_pd]

Kyrgyzstan can be considered done and I already started with Tajikistan. That should be a short one as well.

[oche balboa]

Amazing work 

[Wolf_pd]

Woohoo! Tajikistan is done. Despite a smaller presence in the database looking up the data takes just as much time because of the lack of.

Anyway, first physio and then it is Turkmenistan which with just 110 teams is really small.

[Wolf_pd]

I managed to finish Turkmenistan as well today which means I won a day. Tomorrow first Uzbekistan and then Kazakhstan is on the menu. Kazakhstan probably isn't finished untill Sunday.

And after that it is time for...... Romania. I need some different for some time, so it's good to have Romania as an alternative. Romania is quite big, but since I am doing it in the same way as the Ukraine data, it should go quicker than the initial time I have planned for it.

 

[Wolf_pd]

Uzbekistan is finished and it would be an interesting choice to rebuild in a fantasy setting (yeah, I have various other future projects hopping around in my head!)

Kazakhstan is now started and it is big....! Might be that I have to finish that one after the weekend first before I can start on Romania.

Btw, for those people with ideas for fantasy builds, read a bit about the history of Central Asia, many interesting things to find.

[Wolf_pd]

Kazakhstan is finished as the first of the big boys. We are over 30K in changes for the USSR file now and I still have to process Russia and Ukraine which are by far the biggest ones with 1500 and 2300 teams respectively. Two other areas still to do (didn't realise that untill this weekend) are Crimea, which is relatively small and the Soviet Union. Yes, for history purposes SI has added several USSR teams in the database. Both are between 100 and 150 teams and the research has already been done, so not much to do here. That might be one for during the week when I am bored with Romania. And with that, it is on to Romania!

[josuts]

33 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Kazakhstan is finished as the first of the big boys. We are over 30K in changes for the USSR file now and I still have to process Russia and Ukraine which are by far the biggest ones with 1500 and 2300 teams respectively. Two other areas still to do (didn't realise that untill this weekend) are Crimea, which is relatively small and the Soviet Union. Yes, for history purposes SI has added several USSR teams in the database. Both are between 100 and 150 teams and the research has already been done, so not much to do here. That might be one for during the week when I am bored with Romania. And with that, it is on to Romania!

Hi Wolf,one question! How do you find the extinct teams of the USSR? or Yugoslavia?

[Wolf_pd]

3 hours ago, josuts said:

Hi Wolf,one question! How do you find the extinct teams of the USSR? or Yugoslavia?

Google, Wikipedia, rsssf.com and then cross reference the various results you find to confirm. Especially with older data you will find that one source says one thing, another source says another thing, so the cross referencing is really important.

[josuts]

14 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Google, Wikipedia, rsssf.com and then cross reference the various results you find to confirm. Especially with older data you will find that one source says one thing, another source says another thing, so the cross referencing is really important.

Thank you for the answer.But in the data editor are the extinct teams in or you make them from scratch?

[Wolf_pd]

1 hour ago, josuts said:

Thank you for the answer.But in the data editor are the extinct teams in or you make them from scratch?

I mainly use the teams from the editor. For some nations I create extra teams based on the 1988 rankings, if I need them to fill up the competitions.

[Reiver]

For East Germany, which is the only country we create by detaching it from another nation instead of merging nations together, I am creating a LOT of new teams, because I want to have the game go down at least 4 levels. The good news is that information on lower league teams in East Germany is a lot easier to find than in other countries.

[teamemutest]

Il y a 1 heure, Reiver a dit :

For East Germany, which is the only country we create by detaching it from another nation instead of merging nations together, I am creating a LOT of new teams, because I want to have the game go down at least 4 levels. The good news is that information on lower league teams in East Germany is a lot easier to find than in other countries.

Are the East German teams going to be considered completely new as they were in the FM20 version ?

[Reiver]

We managed to fix the issue that made us have to do that last time - all teams already ingame will just get renamed back to their east german counterpart - the problem is that that only gives us enough teams to fill up the top two tiers and partly fill up the 3rd - hence why filling up with more teams, and why this is the file that will take most of my time.

[Wolf_pd]

In hindsight we could have done this for IC20 as well if I had known this, but it would have also meant a complete rebuild.

The positive thing is that it tells me how to rework other countries as well and create a complete fantasy world (wait different project )

[Wolf_pd]

And since I started with Romania, let's give some more information about how that is going to be.
Level 1: Divizia A with 18 teams and 3 relegating teams
Level 2: Divizie B with 3 Series of each 18 teams. 1 team per Serie promotes, while 4 are relegated to Divizia C. Serie I covers roughly the northeast part. Serie II covers mostly the south part and Serie III covers the West part.
Level 3: Divizia C has 12 Series of each 16 teams. Again 1 team per Serie promotes while 3-4 teams per 3 relegate to Divisia D, which is the County level. Every 4 series are connected to a Serie at level 2.
Level 4 is the County level and this is an unplayable level as information about it was non-existent.

The Romanian Cup proper consists of a 32 team knock out tournament. I am still contemplating whether to create the county cups and a preliminary round.

There is no Romanian Super Cup as that didn't exist back in 1988.

The U18 level will be setup similar to the Polish U18 system.

Romania could have been much bigger as it really has a massive amount of teams, but researching those is pretty impossible. There are so many namechanges, teams going broke, teams changing ownership and moving because of that. And that's before you look at things like FCSB (known in 1988 as Steaua Bucharest) and the many discussions about who owns teamnames, history and honours.

[Reiver]

14 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Romania could have been much bigger as it really has a massive amount of teams, but researching those is pretty impossible. There are so many namechanges, teams going broke, teams changing ownership and moving because of that. And that's before you look at things like FCSB (known in 1988 as Steaua Bucharest) and the many discussions about who owns teamnames, history and honours.

I can vouch for this because I also tried tackling this a while ago. Even for bigger cities or teams that played at second or 3rd level back in the communist times, information is very scarce - as an example: there are teams that in the late 1980s played in the third tier and all information I could find was their name. No logo, stadium name and/or location, not even what their colour scheme was, and they weren't teams from tiny villages, these were teams from towns with 50 to 100 thousand people living in them, and it was their biggest team too.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Reiver

[Wolf_pd]

On 07/03/2022 at 13:04, teamemutest said:

Are the East German teams going to be considered completely new as they were in the FM20 version ?

 

On 07/03/2022 at 13:11, Reiver said:

We managed to fix the issue that made us have to do that last time - all teams already ingame will just get renamed back to their east german counterpart - the problem is that that only gives us enough teams to fill up the top two tiers and partly fill up the 3rd - hence why filling up with more teams, and why this is the file that will take most of my time.

We even have Red Bull Leipzig in the game as it is clearly based on a Betriebssportgemeinschaft.

 

No, we didn't

[Reiver]

Obviously Betriebssportgemeinschaft Empor Energiegetränk-Abfüllanlage (Empor EGAL) Leipzig

Edited March 8, 2022 by Reiver

[Reiver]

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Bau- und Montagekombinat Kombinatsbetrieb Industriebau Gera

BSG BMK-KBI Gera for short.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Reiver

[Wolf_pd]

2 hours ago, Reiver said:

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Bau- und Montagekombinat Kombinatsbetrieb Industriebau Gera

BSG BMK-KBI Gera for short.

Hmm, we might have to ask SI to expand the long name field for this one.

[Wolf_pd]

In the meantime I am running several tests to finish foreign player rules. This about 10 years per run per individual nation. You might notice that we started quite a bit earlier than we started this thread

And I am sorry, that doesn't mean it is going any faster. Simply because there is a lot of data work to be done (looking at you Romania and Soviet Union. On that note, the first Romania part went slightly faster than expected, so that's a positive!

 

[Tikka Mezzala]

6 hours ago, Reiver said:

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Bau- und Montagekombinat Kombinatsbetrieb Industriebau Gera

BSG BMK-KBI Gera for short.

That's my first save sorted. Make Betriebssportgemeinschaft Bau-und Montagekombinat Kombinatsbetrieb Industriebau Gera great again. 

[Wolf_pd]

On 09/03/2022 at 19:54, Tikka Mezzala said:

That's my first save sorted. Make Betriebssportgemeinschaft Bau-und Montagekombinat Kombinatsbetrieb Industriebau Gera great again. 

T-shirts with that slogan only for sale in XXL.

[Reiver]

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Wohnungs- und Gesellschaftsbau Kombinat Frankfurt (Oder)

[Tikka Mezzala]

2 hours ago, Reiver said:

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Wohnungs- und Gesellschaftsbau Kombinat Frankfurt (Oder)

A Frankfurt team in East Germany?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Tikka Mezzala

[Wolf_pd]

18 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

A Frankfurt team in East Germany?

You have Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder.
Frankfurt am Main is where Eintracht Frankfurt plays. Frankfurt an der Oder is on the (East) German-Polish border.

[Tikka Mezzala]

59 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

You have Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder.
Frankfurt am Main is where Eintracht Frankfurt plays. Frankfurt an der Oder is on the (East) German-Polish border.

Ah, okay. 

[Wolf_pd]

Right now I am editing the various Romanian competitions which means I can start adding regional competitions to clubs tonight. This is the biggest work left, and bigger than setting up the competition. Finishing Romania up in basic form the coming week should be doable which might mean I pick up Crimea somewhere this week for a quick in between snack.

[Reiver]

East German team name of the day:

Volkssportgemeinschaft Chemieanlagenbaukombinat Leipzig-Grimma

[oche balboa]

A lot of research into this, KUTGW will look forward to playing this 

[Reiver]

East German team name of the day:

Betriebssportgemeinschaft Lokomotive Reichsbahn Ausbesserungswerk Hermann Matern Cottbus

Edited March 16, 2022 by Reiver

[Tikka Mezzala]

No wonder there was no money in East German football. The printers probably charge by the letter. That's a transfer budget eaten up. 

[themodelcitizen]

Still haven't downloaded FM22 (likely will eventually just to satisfy the urge to make complete international tournaments like the COSAFA Cup) but I still check in just to see how this is going, keep up the great work.

[Wolf_pd]

Romania is ready for competition testing and will go into test on Monday.

So that means tomorrow the day off editing and on Monday we head back to the Soviet Union and start with Crimea. After that is Ukraine, which will take a while, Russia, which will take a while as well and we finish off with the Soviet Union, which will likely be somewhere in about two weeks.

In the meantime I hope we get clarity on the changes SI will do as I need to decide whether to build in Russia, Soviet Union or Ukraine.

[Wolf_pd]

I have worked out all the Soviet Union scenarios for the 22.4 changes, so I can easily change my route. Some scenario do come with about 7-8 extra international competitions that need to be edited.

This also might hold up Player changes a bit which is a bit annoying as that is a lot of work.

 

[Rob 396]

2 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

I have worked out all the Soviet Union scenarios for the 22.4 changes, so I can easily change my route. Some scenario do come with about 7-8 extra international competitions that need to be edited.

This also might hold up Player changes a bit which is a bit annoying as that is a lot of work.

 

No one would begrudge a lengthy pause though mate if you need it 

[Wolf_pd]

32 minutes ago, Rob 396 said:

No one would begrudge a lengthy pause though mate if you need it 

Let's only have one for good reason (as in my previous recovery  ). We have to wait and see, but since there is more than enough to do, no issue.

[Rob 396]

1 hour ago, Wolf_pd said:

Let's only have one for good reason (as in my previous recovery  ). We have to wait and see, but since there is more than enough to do, no issue.

Haha fair enough

But we all know how frustrating it is to roll-back changes due to patches - good luck! Hopefully the changes aren't too impactful.

[Wolf_pd]

Crimea data has already been processed (small area of course), so I have made a start with Ukraine tonight. At least with Kazakhstan I worked out that checking everything at Oblast level first makes it doable. Chewable chunks so to speak.

If I can keep the weekend free of relatives that should see good progress.

[Wolf_pd]

In the meantime I have worked out how to do the European competitions without England and easing them back. It will happen  

Still looking if I can get the coefficients working so I don't have to add additional competitions versions while England climbs up the coefficient ranks.

[Wolf_pd]

After unextincting teams in Ukraine, it's now time to rename the Ukrainian back to their Soviet namesakes. And I can assure you, if there is one nation that has worked hard to wipe out that visible part of Communist history it is Ukraine. It makes things pretty hard as besides the obvious Ukrainianisation of citynames (Lugansk becomes Luhansk for instance), you really have to check and doublecheck some names. We have 1414 Ukrainian teams left. That should work out well enough for those Ukrainian levels

[Wolf_pd]

With release 22.4 out and about, it it time (this weekend) to check what 22.4 is all about and see if there is any effect outside the 22.4 version.

For those who want to read more: https://www.footballmanager.com/news/how-weve-changed-fm22-address-war-ukraine

[MBarbaric]

just read the release notes... what a mess. basically, banned for eternety on fm22. hope that doesn't put you back too much. 

[Wolf_pd]

10 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

just read the release notes... what a mess. basically, banned for eternety on fm22. hope that doesn't put you back too much. 

With the FIFA and UEFA sanctions I had taken into account that Russia could be out of the picture. Didn't expect at that time that it would apply to the default and 22.3 databases as well. From a programming point of view it does make sense, you can't just remove a nation based on DB version.

In terms of work done on the USSR, there is no issue yet as I changed my work order. Normally I would move all nation data to Russia when I had finished for instance Lithuania, and then again for Latvia and so on. I didn't do that this time, so that means I can still pick which nation to build the Soviet competition in.

Anyway, it is between Soviet Union and Ukraine now as Russia is defintely out. Soviet Union has the right amount of inhabitants, but doesn't allow you to coach as a Soviet citizen. Ukraine might have some language disadvantages and doesn't have the inhabitants obviously (about one seventh).

 

[MBarbaric]

if the world was as organized as you are, we'd all live in a better place. 

Edited March 25, 2022 by MBarbaric

[Wolf_pd]

39 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

if the world was as organized as you are, we'd all leave in a better place. 

[Wolf_pd]

5 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Anyway, it is between Soviet Union and Ukraine now as Russia is defintely out. Soviet Union has the right amount of inhabitants, but doesn't allow you to coach as a Soviet citizen. Ukraine might have some language disadvantages and doesn't have the inhabitants obviously (about one seventh).

 

Turns out there is a small workaround to make yourself a Soviet citizen which I overlooked.. It means.... Soviet Union is the way we will go!

Thanks to @Reiverwho put me on the right path.

And now for hope for a quiet weekend with a lot of work. I want to finish the Ukrainian data next week and I still need to work out the 4th level 4 divisions structure properly. 5th level is clear how to do that (and relatively easy with that). But it will need about 5000 changes per level for level 3, 4, 5 and 6. And yes, that's 20K of changes for Ukraine alone! to set the regional competitions.

[Daniel Evensen]

Quote

Turns out there is a small workaround to make yourself a Soviet citizen which I overlooked.

It's a good thing we don't allow political discussions or memes on this board.  This sentence is just too perfect. 

Glad to hear that there is a workaround!  I'm really looking forward to this.

[Wolf_pd]

23 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

It's a good thing we don't allow political discussions or memes on this board.  This sentence is just too perfect. 

Would I have read the 'make yourself a Soviet citizen' sentence without the Iron Curtain mod context it does sound weird.

[Monsi9958]

Your job is really amazing ! What a patience ! I would like to know what is your method to create a Soviet manager because I often create new countries with extinct nations. But I am not able to have for example a coach from Brittany or Corsica. It was possible to do it easily in FM13 or FM14 with a classical method, but not now.