In debt with Liverpool

[shaun.dil83]

Does anyone know what is happening here? I'm coming to the end of the 2027 season and my Liverpool team are in hge debt.

I noticed something was wrong a couple of seasons ago but thought it might have just been a consequence of me paying Liverpools key players the required amounts to keep them at the club.

It's definitely become something out of the ordinary as it is always mentioned with rumoured takeovers.

I have always kept within the wage budget and do not have spread out transfer fees. It's been as natural as can be, adding a quality player year after year and replacing out going transfers.

Is this a bug or something that only a  takeover could fix? For the last two seasons I haven't even been able to compete in the transfer market unless I sell players for high fees. 

 

[DarJ]

Showing us that page is pretty useless because we can't tell what's going on. You need to look at the expenditures and see where you're spending money

[xray1324]

your wage budget is way too high 

[turnip]

Sell a few players; that should sort you out.

I managed to raise over £200m one season with Dinamo, so you should be able to clear £300m or so if you put a bit of effort in.

[shaun.dil83]

9 minutes ago, DarJ said:

Showing us that page is pretty useless because we can't tell what's going on. You need to look at the expenditures and see where you're spending money

Thanks for the reply. The  only expenditure missing is agent fees which was cut off at the bottom. This season 4.5 million and last season 3.5 million.

To elaborate. I am staying within my wage budget and signing players without additional payments. I ussually sign a quality player each summer, accept a bid for another player and sign someone like-for-like.

Something that I have noticed is my annual sponsorship and prize money has decreaed. Furthormore, my competition prize money which you set at the beginning of the season totals over 100 million and I always offer the middle package as standard.

Everything just seems odd. I have played football managaer for years and this has never happened. Also, I have won the league every season except this one by the looks of it and run far in the champions league. Semi finals and finals almost each year. 

[shaun.dil83]

6 minutes ago, xray1324 said:

your wage budget is way too high 

It's within what is offered and third behind Man City and Man Utd. 

[shaun.dil83]

2 minutes ago, turnip said:

Sell a few players; that should sort you out.

I managed to raise over £200m one season with Dinamo, so you should be able to clear £300m or so if you put a bit of effort in.

I do sell players, regardless of what I do the club continues to slide in debt.

[DarJ]

I don't play in any of the big leagues so I'm not used to seeing that much money but it seems like your wages and bonuses are too high over 100M on bonuses last season on top of their wages? That's a lot. It's literally half of what you're paying in wages 

[shaun.dil83]

2 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I don't play in any of the big leagues so I'm not used to seeing that much money but it seems like your wages and bonuses are too high over 100M on bonuses last season on top of their wages? That's a lot. It's literally half of what you're paying in wages 

I agree. However, the bonuses are added at the beginning of the season for League, Champions league, and cup finish. I do what I do with any team I manage and go for the middle option. Last season I considered opting for the lower options to fix the problem that I could see coming but had I have done that then the club would allow me to spend it on tranfers.

All other bounuses are within their contract which run in conjunction with what you would implement at any other club. 

Regarding every other expenditure I am paying within the same bracket as Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, and Arsenal. And from the five of us I am the only one to appear in the champions league each year. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Any how, thanks for your input. 

[Oliver Roland]

I have never experienced going so down with finances managing in PL, LL, BL or SA....how much is the difference between your buying and selling? Do you make profit or are you in loss and if, how much?

Bonuses, loyalty bonuses and staff wages are way too high either...You were more than 50M pounds in debt last season. You could easily get into + with lower wages and bonuses. Check your staff and player contracts.

[santy001]

Last season player wages, staff wages, bonuses & loyalty bonuses are amounting to £8.5m per week for your club. It's going to be difficult to carry that level of expenditure. 

[shaun.dil83]

19 minutes ago, Oliver Roland said:

I have never experienced going so down with finances managing in PL, LL, BL or SA....how much is the difference between your buying and selling? Do you make profit or are you in loss and if, how much?

Bonuses, loyalty bonuses and staff wages are way too high either...You were more than 50M pounds in debt last season. You could easily get into + with lower wages and bonuses. Check your staff and player contracts.

My total transfer history is as follows (first season to last):

In 294m Out 232m

In 110m Out 104m

In 224m Out 113m

In 119m Out 170m

In 93m Out 85m

In 160m Out 126m

My wage budget has grew slightly but only as you would imagine. I have been third in wages excluding one season which was last year when I hit 6 million. However, that was only 200k pw more than Man City and they didn't have champions league football.

The save has just been awkward in general. After the third season the only way I could buy an elite player was to sell someone for over 50m and add that to my entire budget. 

EDIT - my player bonuses at the beginning of the season are for over 100m at the middle offering. But this is set by the board, if I take the lower offer then it gets added to my transfer budget. Also, if I do that than it affects player morale. 

Last season I beat Arsenal to the title by goal difference. This season they have it wrapped up with two games to go. I have literally been pushed out by their spending power without a takeover. I cannot compete in the transfer market. This season I have kept within my wage budget, finishing second in the league, just made the final of the champions league and my new budget is under 40m. A little more than last seasons.

Edited January 17, 2022 by shaun.dil83
Additional comment

[shaun.dil83]

10 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Last season player wages, staff wages, bonuses & loyalty bonuses are amounting to £8.5m per week for your club. It's going to be difficult to carry that level of expenditure. 

Thanks for your reply.

My wage budget at 6m is on par with my rivals and my staff is all within budget. I have never really kept an eye on bonuses before. Are you aware of a potential disastrous amount? If so am I in it?

FYI, I am not doing anything that I have not done while managing an elite premiership club before - on this or previous FM editions. 

[HighwayCathedral]

I think you've made a slightly faulty assumption that the board wouldn't give you a transfer/wage budget that is in excess of what the club can afford in the medium-long term. As history has shown at many clubs (Rangers, Portsmouth, Leeds... etc etc) this is definitely not the case.

In recent versions of FM I've learned that you have to pay attention to your incomings and outgoings irrespective of what budget the board gives you. As others have said, you probably will have to sell a few choice players, and get picky when negotiating contracts in future.

[shaun.dil83]

1 minute ago, HighwayCathedral said:

I think you've made a slightly faulty assumption that the board wouldn't give you a transfer/wage budget that is in excess of what the club can afford in the medium-long term. As history has shown at many clubs (Rangers, Portsmouth, Leeds... etc etc) this is definitely not the case.

In recent versions of FM I've learned that you have to pay attention to your incomings and outgoings irrespective of what budget the board gives you. As others have said, you probably will have to sell a few choice players, and get picky when negotiating contracts in future.

Thanks for your input. That is a possibility, but it's a new one on me for managing at this level. I do a save each year with an elite team and if you're winning titles and Champions league than a competitive budget seems a given. However, as you stated, could be be that I made a faulty assumption. 

[HighwayCathedral]

2 minutes ago, shaun.dil83 said:

Thanks for your input. That is a possibility, but it's a new one on me for managing at this level. I do a save each year with an elite team and if you're winning titles and Champions league than a competitive budget seems a given. However, as you stated, could be be that I made a faulty assumption. 

In fairness it's only something I've noticed recently. At a couple of clubs I spent only about 70-80% of the cap, but the club still ran out of money. The reason was that I'd joined clubs with 'Secure' finances, but those finances were based on a massive transfer warchest from a recent takeover. Once that money was gone, it was gone, and the board hadn't budgeted for the long term.

For instance the club would have 4 million in the bank, only made 500K turnover, but I had a combined transfer/wage budget of 1.5 million. So being naive about the situation, I spent about 1.2 million combined on transfers and wages, and was alarmed to see our balance going down by more than our total turnover every year!

Owners can be stupid now. I like it.

[santy001]

23 minutes ago, shaun.dil83 said:

Thanks for your reply.

My wage budget at 6m is on par with my rivals and my staff is all within budget. I have never really kept an eye on bonuses before. Are you aware of a potential disastrous amount? If so am I in it?

FYI, I am not doing anything that I have not done while managing an elite premiership club before - on this or previous FM editions. 

You can carry a hefty negative balance as a club like Liverpool, its not an immediate detriment but your transfer budgets will continue to be smaller. 

It's just a lot of money to be spending and its okay for a few years but look at those figures across a 10 year period. It'd be almost £4.5 billion. 

[xray1324]

2 hours ago, shaun.dil83 said:

It's within what is offered and third behind Man City and Man Utd. 

no I mean paying 5m a week isn't sustainable ingame, maybe irl so I'd advise trying to cut your wage bill down, sell players that are declining, aging etc. Don't have old players on 200k a week etc or even 100k+

 

just because you have 6m wage budget to spend doesn't mean you should

Edited January 17, 2022 by xray1324

[davehanson]

I would look at the bonuses you are attaching to players contracts. You may be within your budget limit, but bonuses are not affected by the wage limit.

If you are paying, for example £50,000 per goal to your striker, £50,000 for a clean sheet to your goalkeeper then it is going to hurt you. Looking at your bonus outlay I would suggest there are a lot of players with very high bonus clauses.

[Groom84]

7 hours ago, xray1324 said:

your wage budget is way too high 

Wage budget, is fine: It's how much he is spending on the wage budget that is concerning.

 

You can have 10 trillion as wage budget, but wage spending is 1 million = You are fine

[Sloak]

I think it’s as some others have mentioned, bonuses for assists and goals aren’t added into wage calculations, they’re just deducted from the total balance. This could lead to some problems over time as the AI can’t measure your bonuses well and predict for them would be my guess.

[TheNapalmNerd]

Can you show an overview of the contracts in your squads? 

 

Are there Any players earning more than they deserve? 

 

Are there Great expenditures in your reserves? Any deadwood you can get rid of?

[xray1324]

11 hours ago, Groom84 said:

Wage budget, is fine: It's how much he is spending on the wage budget that is concerning.

 

You can have 10 trillion as wage budget, but wage spending is 1 million = You are fine

yeah that's what I meant lol

[CaptCanuck]

If you've not already started doing it, you need to go Chelsea model on young overseas players. Maybe 1/3 makes your squad and the rest you sell for profit.

Yes that won't always come off, but you should be able to get the assembly line going with players bought between 1mil GBP (Colombia, Chile, and the like) and 15mil GBP (the Brazil/Argentina/Portugal/Balkans side of things) get them on wages in the low to mid 10 thousands/week, one contract renewal and you can flip them in 3-5 years.

Yes they will cost in wages during this time, but can get some back via loan agreements, but over time it's absolutely a way to make a fair few pounds.

Another thing is to be sure you've got scouts on the lookout for talented youngsters running down their contract on the continent. That's another great way to turn players over for a healthy profit.

[Yuko]

FFP seems fine with it  

[fc.cadoni]

If it has limit of 5 mil per week, does not mean it's good to spend 5 mil per. Have it around 3-4 mil per week. When the max wage for scout is (example) 100k per week, have it in 50k per week. Having 10 mil loss per month is huge, even for Liverpool or any top club. Start to reduce EVERYTHING and from everyone. 

[gunner86]

On 17/01/2022 at 18:16, shaun.dil83 said:

My total transfer history is as follows (first season to last):

In 294m Out 232m

In 110m Out 104m

In 224m Out 113m

In 119m Out 170m

In 93m Out 85m

In 160m Out 126m

I’m not sure how to read this, is the “In” money coming in from transfers? Or money spent on players coming in?

Edited January 19, 2022 by gunner86

[bluehefner]

On 17/01/2022 at 23:01, davehanson said:

I would look at the bonuses you are attaching to players contracts. You may be within your budget limit, but bonuses are not affected by the wage limit.

If you are paying, for example £50,000 per goal to your striker, £50,000 for a clean sheet to your goalkeeper then it is going to hurt you. Looking at your bonus outlay I would suggest there are a lot of players with very high bonus clauses.

Ok but if our best players want that or they won't sign what are we supposed to do? Have a **** team?

[santy001]

You're kind of restricted if you've already got players on high paying contracts. It's a calculated risk to take but you need to then be looking at moving on those players and bringing in replacements on much lower deals. 

New players on long term deals at much lower wages plus being willing to refuse to cave in to demands for a new deal. If you've got a player on a 5 year deal + 1 year option you do kind of need to be looking at new contracts at the end of year 2 or in year 3 and sticking to an amount you're happy with. If you can't get the player to agree then look to sell. Some players will be worth breaking the structure for but you can have success keeping a players wages a lot lower.

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, bluehefner said:

Ok but if our best players want that or they won't sign what are we supposed to do? Have a **** team?

You negotiate, look longer term by renewing their contracts earlier and trying to get away from paying high bonuses. But, ultimatley it is like real life: You may not be able to afford to pay players what they want so yes, get rid for good money and bring in someone else.

[Mike J]

2 hours ago, bluehefner said:

Ok but if our best players want that or they won't sign what are we supposed to do? Have a **** team?

Pretty much, yes. You're still Liverpool, so probably not exactly a terrible team, but you may find you're unable to compete at the very top end of the transfer market with your current finances. This is what's happened to Barca IRL. Their wages were ludicrous across the whole team and they're now struggling to register players until current players take pay cuts.

You may find it's not too difficult if your bonuses are the problem. Players tend to care a little bit less about bonuses than the overall weekly wage so you can often reduce those pretty easily.