How can I reduce stamina drain without not giving away control too much?

[goku4]

All in all, I am way happy with the results, I have achieved so far with my team. However, I have noticed that I am more or less giving goals away every single game in the last minutes, because my players are almost "dead". How would you tweak this tactic defensively to reduce stamina drain? I would appreciate any help

[Johnny Ace]

That little red Intensity bar gives you a clue

There's a few ways to go about it

• Don't use that Intensity for 90 minutes every game, use it in bursts or cut back once you have a comfortable lead
• Get fitter players, the more demanding the system, the fitter the squad will need to be 
• Cut down the Intensity of the tactic. Run at Defence, Counter, Counter Press, Trigger More Often, High Lines are all physically demanding TIs

[HUNT3R]

33 minutes ago, goku4 said:

However, I have noticed that I am more or less giving goals away every single game in the last minutes, because my players are almost "dead".

How do you know you're conceding goals because your players don't have stamina? Could it not be because you're in the lead and other teams are throwing people forward to get back into the match? I haven't seen your matches; just wondering.

Anyway, think it through - reduce the intensity. You may not need to counter press anymore, but perhaps still hit them on the counter. Do you really need to press the entire pitch? Lower the LoE. Reduce an attack duty to support (like that CWB) etc 

[themadsheep2001]

You're playing at high intensity, and potentially conceding goals as a result of players being tired? If that's the case then take a look at what connects that and adjust accordingly

[goku4]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

How do you know you're conceding goals because your players don't have stamina? Could it not be because you're in the lead and other teams are throwing people forward to get back into the match? I haven't seen your matches; just wondering.

Anyway, think it through - reduce the intensity. You may not need to counter press anymore, but perhaps still hit them on the counter. Do you really need to press the entire pitch? Lower the LoE. Reduce an attack duty to support (like that CWB) etc 

Because, that is actually the outcome, when I have fit players and some breaks... Problem is definitely stamina... Guess, there is no other choice than just signing very fit players with high stamina. I almost gave away my top4 spot, when I was leading 2-0 comforatbly away against west ham, and decided to go cautious mentality, with half pressure, low defensive line, standard LOE, defensive duty full backs, without counter and with regroup... match ended 2-2. you can not play defensive football in this game. or my heart is not meant for this...

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, goku4 said:

and decided to go cautious mentality

Shifting to Cautious is a massive change from Positive, it changes loads of things and puts you on the backfoot vs a team trying to equalise. It's not Cautious = Clean sheet. All you need is a few simple changes to help see out a game 

Plus, you're 4th with Brighton, you've not a lot to complain about  

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, goku4 said:

you can not play defensive football in this game

It's quite possible.

Regardless - like said - reduce the intensity. You don't have to go all out defensive - just reduce the intensity. Reign things in slightly. It sounds like you overdid it completely. In my case, if I feel the need to reduce things either to conserve energy or to be ready for an attacking opponent (I don't counter press though), I drop down from Positive to Balanced and reduce my LoE one notch (from higher to standard) and D-Line by one notch (standard to deeper). Nothing else.

9 minutes ago, goku4 said:

Problem is definitely stamina... Guess, there is no other choice than just signing very fit players with high stamina.

You've already found the answer that works for you.  

In any case, you're 4th. With Brighton. You're doing well. Keep building/improving the squad.

[herne79]

9 minutes ago, goku4 said:

Problem is definitely stamina

 

9 minutes ago, goku4 said:

when I was leading 2-0 comforatbly away against west ham, and decided to go cautious mentality, with half pressure, low defensive line, standard LOE, defensive duty full backs, without counter and with regroup

If you did all of that, the problem is not stamina.  You are doing much more than is necessary - small step changes tend to be far better than complete overhauls.

Below are 3 tactics I use - the one on the left is how I usually start.  In the middle I use if chasing a game.  The one on the right is a more cautious approach if defending a lead late in a game and I'm starting to get attacked.  Note how I don't touch Mentality, and only make small changes to TIs.  If I had to pick one, I'd choose Tempo as being the most important change.

I know you say you've tried everything however I'd suggest you've tried most of that out of frustration, which results in throwing anything at your system in the hope of something working.  Which then leads you to think there are ME bugs or even a scripted ME.  You're just trying to do too much all in one go without properly understanding what such whole sale changes actually do.

[goku4]

42 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Shifting to Cautious is a massive change from Positive, it changes loads of things and puts you on the backfoot vs a team trying to equalise. It's not Cautious = Clean sheet. All you need is a few simple changes to help see out a game 

Plus, you're 4th with Brighton, you've not a lot to complain about  

What would you recommend? Should I stick to positive? Btw. I also won the Europa League against AC Milan  Just that stamina thing are my worries ...

[goku4]

26 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

If you did all of that, the problem is not stamina.  You are doing much more than is necessary - small step changes tend to be far better than complete overhauls.

Below are 3 tactics I use - the one on the left is how I usually start.  In the middle I use if chasing a game.  The one on the right is a more cautious approach if defending a lead late in a game and I'm starting to get attacked.  Note how I don't touch Mentality, and only make small changes to TIs.  If I had to pick one, I'd choose Tempo as being the most important change.

I know you say you've tried everything however I'd suggest you've tried most of that out of frustration, which results in throwing anything at your system in the hope of something working.  Which then leads you to think there are ME bugs or even a scripted ME.  You're just trying to do too much all in one go without properly understanding what such whole sale changes actually do.

Dont get me wrong, but my experience tells me that playing short passing game is actually not a "cautious" method, as it just leads to more pressure and your defenders losing the ball or playing it back to the keeper who then smashes it to nonsense... The tactic that you can see in my screenshot has been used in another Brighton save after I became Premier League winners in the 4th season. Everything was the same except my back four plus CDM had shorter passing. Teams started to play gegenpressing against me and I noticed how I concede at least one goal each game while my CBs just play short passes, ignore full backs and the CMs and play it back to the keeper who then smashes it to the opposition CB then counter and goal... What I did is telling my back four plus CDM to play more direct passes. It was like a miracle... I couldnt believe how much it changed and I am now so comfortable because my CBs actually see my full backs and CMs and play the ball to them. It led to more goals and more solid performances...

[goku4]

46 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It's quite possible.

Regardless - like said - reduce the intensity. You don't have to go all out defensive - just reduce the intensity. Reign things in slightly. It sounds like you overdid it completely. In my case, if I feel the need to reduce things either to conserve energy or to be ready for an attacking opponent (I don't counter press though), I drop down from Positive to Balanced and reduce my LoE one notch (from higher to standard) and D-Line by one notch (standard to deeper). Nothing else.

You've already found the answer that works for you.  

In any case, you're 4th. With Brighton. You're doing well. Keep building/improving the squad.

Thx for the advice. I will try to follow this. I really get nervous when I switch to defend mode, as I hate it to invite the opposition... Would it be okay to still keep positive, reduce d-line and LOE and maybe take out counter pressing and change CWB to full back on support etc?

[Johnny Ace]

7 minutes ago, goku4 said:

What would you recommend? Should I stick to positive? Btw. I also won the Europa League against AC Milan  Just that stamina thing are my worries ...

Look at how @herne79changes to be a little more conservative

You could drop a few TIs like:

• Pass into Space
• Run at Defence
• Counter
• Counter Press
• High LOE
• Prevent Keeper

Immediately, that would take out a lot of risk and help players conserve energy, it will also help your team keep the ball and make it harder for the other team to win the ball back  

Then, player roles:

• Mezz(S)
• W(S)

Makes the system less aggressive, less looking to score and be more conservative 

[HUNT3R]

@goku4, where are you expected to finish?

[De Nile]

1 hour ago, goku4 said:

you can not play defensive football in this game.

I just want to say this isn't the first time you have said this previously you went on about "attacking is the best way to play FM" and although I'm paraphrasing this is just your way to play the game I can bring up other posts that say otherwise about defensive football, and people who know how to play defensively often apply irl football logic rather then FM logic. It's not hard if you are a bit more open minded.

[herne79]

52 minutes ago, goku4 said:

Dont get me wrong, but my experience tells me that playing short passing game is actually not a "cautious" method

No part of my post was about using a short passing game.  ”Slightly shorter passing” in combination with the Attacking mentality is not a short passing game (unless you combine it with a lot of suitable tactical settings).

I purposely didn’t show the complete tactic because it’s irrelevant (and only the TIs change anyway).  It’s just about showing that small changes can have big impacts, rather than the wholesale changes you made and came unstuck with.  Change a role here or a TI there.  Don’t just throw the entire kitchen sink at it .

There is a fine line between being aggressive in attack but defensively sound and being overly aggressive in attack thus leaving yourself exposed to counter attacks.  Likewise there is a similarly fine line between being defensively solid and being overly passive where you invite too much pressure for your team to handle.  Those lines tend to be crossed when we use an aggressive (or passive) mentality in combination with lots of other aggressive (or passive) instructions + roles, duties and players.

In your example at the top, you crossed that line.  You used a passive mentality in combination with lots of passive TIs and roles/duties.  This invited too much pressure onto your team for your players to handle.  Then the opposition scored which improved their morale and gave them encouragement, while your players wilted resulting in a second goal conceded.  Unwittingly you caused all of that when you made your tactical changes.

One other thought - make prudent use of substitutes.  Replace tired players with a fresh pair of legs even if the player you take off is having an excellent game, especially in key areas such as down the flanks or in central midfield.  And try to have different types of players on the bench to bring on.  Replacing a tired flair player in central midfield (for example) with someone similar isn’t really going to do anything - replace him with a harder working player especially if you think you are starting to get over run in midfield.

Oh and a final thought - manage your own expectations.  Be ambitious yes but don’t get caught up in going top of the league and being frustrated if you get knocked off the top spot if your own Board and players are only expecting a top half finish.  All that does is put extra pressure onto yourself which can lead to frustration.

[goku4]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

@goku4, where are you expected to finish?

Season goal was mid-table finish and I was expected to finish 9th.

[goku4]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Look at how @herne79changes to be a little more conservative

You could drop a few TIs like:

• Pass into Space
• Run at Defence
• Counter
• Counter Press
• High LOE
• Prevent Keeper

Immediately, that would take out a lot of risk and help players conserve energy, it will also help your team keep the ball and make it harder for the other team to win the ball back  

Then, player roles:

• Mezz(S)
• W(S)

Makes the system less aggressive, less looking to score and be more conservative 

Thx, will def. try to get rid of run at defence. I already removed pass into space in my last 4 games, when I noticed that I could not even score against preston at home, who had 6 points in 36 games... Regarding the rest, I need to test towards the end of games... 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, goku4 said:

Season goal was mid-table finish and I was expected to finish 9th.

You're 4th with essentially a mid-table team. It's worth keeping that in mind. You're consistently over-achieving. You aren't a top team yet (though you are in those positions), so things won't be perfect.

[goku4]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

You're 4th with essentially a mid-table team. It's worth keeping that in mind. You're consistently over-achieving. You aren't a top team yet (though you are in those positions), so things won't be perfect.

yes, must say, overachieving can also be toxic as your expectstions increase. I am just wondering about all those tactics uploaded here or wherelse where people win the league with leeds etc. in the first season. looking at those tactics, 7 of 11 players have attacking mentality, max loe hard tackling tight markinh etc... how is having success with such tactic even possible? in comparison to theose tactics, mine would be described as very cautious and yet I concede so many goals in the last minutes...

[HUNT3R]

10 minutes ago, goku4 said:

yes, must say, overachieving can also be toxic as your expectstions increase. 

That's why I mentioned it. Keep your expectations realistic. As your squad improves, you will be able to dominate more, challenge for higher spots etc. I remember when I "broke" my self imposed wage cap of ­£110k / week to get a fantastic striker on £125k / week and he transformed us into a top 3 team able to challenge for titles, which gave me reputation and money so that the squad could further improve and I could dominate the league. 

Don't lose focus of the fact that you're doing very well. Don't worry about other people and what they achieve or don't achieve. It's your game - focus on that. Even underachieving can be 'fun'/interesting. It can lead to a new job or you it can give you immense satisfaction if you are able to turn it around. If not, go manage your previous club's rivals and make it your  mission to beat them in every way possible. 

[Skywalk3r83]

On 06/04/2022 at 13:06, herne79 said:

I don't know what your formation/player roles/TI's/PI's are but I did a test with a normal 4231 and it's absolutely class! 

First match was the friendly against Antwerp, after that we have won all of our games! 
Against AZ we were 1-2 down, selected the one to chase the game and we won 4-2!

[Rashidi]

When I want to hold out a lead sometimes I keep things simple. If I dont want too much pressure, I just stop counter pressing and start regrouping. Having a set of team instructions you turn to to see out a game can be a lot more effective than just changing mentality and making sweeping team instruction changes. If its a team that is of similar standards to your team, I wouldnt make drastic changes.

Away from home and if i was an underdog I might play a more cautious style but that isn't just a function of mentality. I could :

Play a low line of engagement and a low defensive line. Within that zone I could tell my players not to press too aggressively, but to hard tackle. That way I ensure that within my zone of compression, my players hold their position but only commit when they need to.

You can also tire other teams out by playing a different style to run down the clock. Sometimes I go wider and play more direct passing, because I know my players can pass the ball, but I don't play on a high tempo. When I want to make other teams tired I simply play on balanced or cautious mentality, play wider and more direct. I get the other team to chase the ball instead. However I keep my defensive line on standard so i dont overcommit.

1 tactic can be played in several ways. Learning how to play the tactic differently can very often be the challenge, simply dropping mentality to cautious is not the solution.

[glengarry224]

Also, look at which players become dead tired.  I'd guess that your CWB(a) is working the hardest.  If so, I'd think about lowering him to WB(d) or FB(s) for stretches:  for example, maybe the last 10-15 minutes of the first half.  Or against a much better team, start him lower for the first 15 minutes, while you try to ride out your opponent's attack, then increase.  If your Mez(a) tires quickly, maybe lower him to CM(s) for a bit. 

If you have a set of changes you make to lessen intensity, I'd train those changes and maybe play an entire friendly with them so that your players get used to the changes.  I like to train a 'Restivo' tactic and play it in friendlies.  If the players are more tactically familiar with those changes - especially mentality, trigger press and marking - I think that they will not be as victimized if you switch on some or all of the 'Restivo' changes in match.

When in a tough run of matches, I like to give tired players a complete day off pitch or gym training so that they are fully rested before the next match, and if possible, rotate backups in - either as starters or an earlier substitution - for lesser matches.