why do coaches only recommend individual focus training on set piece attributes?

[properdisco]

every staff meeting in FM22 becomes frustrating from the start due to coaches hating any form of individual focus training that isn't either corners/free kicks/penalties. every single save in the game I've encountered this. is there actually a solid reason for this or is it just a bug? why have so many options for individual focus training if only 3 will ever be recommended? also why hasn't "no longer a weakness" been patched out of the game yet? 

[Draakon]

They don't do that in my save. I've noticed that they tend to advise more set piece training when your current best players suck at it.

If you have good set piece takers (15+ free kick) then they're happy with it. If your best set piece/corner takers are with attributes 10-12, they advise you to start individual training to some of the players because they feel that current taker needs improvement. Sometimes their advice doesn't make any sense - for example when the best free kick taker has 11 for their free kicks and they think that a midfielder with rating of 8 should start individual training. Well, realistically this midfielder will never get over 12-13 and it's not much of an improvement.

Instead, that's the issue that should be addressed during scouting meetings and squad improvement meetings before transfer windows - to point out that we don't have a decent set piece taker and we should find somebody from transfer market who possesses such qualities.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Draakon

[properdisco]

6 minutes ago, Draakon said:

They don't do that in my save. I've noticed that they tend to advise more set piece training when your current best players suck at it.

If you have good set piece takers (15+ free kick) then they're happy with it. If your best set piece/corner takers are with attributes 10-12, they advise you to start individual training to some of the players because they feel that current taker needs improvement. Sometimes their advice doesn't make any sense - for example when the best free kick taker has 11 for their free kicks and they think that a midfielder with rating of 8 should start individual training. Well, realistically this midfielder will never get over 12-13 and it's not much of an improvement.

Instead, that's the issue that should be addressed during scouting meetings and squad improvement meetings before transfer windows - to point out that we don't have a decent set piece taker and we should find somebody from transfer market who possesses such qualities.

well, then this is a big problem with lower reputation teams/players which is what I play the most. At a smaller club it's normal for the best set piece takers to have ratings of 11-13, yet the game sees it as an inherent problem because it's judging on a world scale. You're not gonna get David Beckham quality in the Scottish 2nd tier. If for example a winger has 12 in corners, free kicks & penalties, but 7 in dribbling, surely they should ignore the set piece attributes that are at a respectable level and recommend working on their dribbling instead? Yet they never do, for me.

Edited May 11, 2022 by properdisco

[Draakon]

4 minutes ago, properdisco said:

well, then this is a big problem with lower reputation teams/players which is what I play the most. At a smaller club it's normal for the best set piece takers to have ratings of 11-13, yet the game sees it as an inherent problem because it's judging on a world scale. You're not gonna get David Beckham quality in the Scottish 2nd tier. If for example a winger has 12 in corners, free kicks & penalties, but 7 in dribbling, surely they should ignore the set piece attributes that are at a respectable level and recommend working on their dribbling instead? Yet they never do, for me.

Staff advice apart, it's an interesting question: what would give your team more additional value - increasing his dribbling 7->8 or corners 12->13. Especially in lower leagues a lot of goals are scored from set pieces, because level of defence in these situations way worse and any decent delivery can cause problems in the box. So it might be wise to advise corner training even when he has other weaknesses to address.

I think that's a more philosophical question, whether these suggestions should be based on a player and player alone (to develop him into a better footballer) or should it take into account of your team and tactics (eg. winger should have maximum pace to be effective in our fluid counter-attack formation and his skills with the ball are less important). I'm not sure that SI code is that complex, but it's an interesting idea.

[crpcarrot]

on a related question if you give training of U23 U18 to assistants do they do much individual training or skills training?

[properdisco]

9 hours ago, Draakon said:

Staff advice apart, it's an interesting question: what would give your team more additional value - increasing his dribbling 7->8 or corners 12->13. Especially in lower leagues a lot of goals are scored from set pieces, because level of defence in these situations way worse and any decent delivery can cause problems in the box. So it might be wise to advise corner training even when he has other weaknesses to address.

I think that's a more philosophical question, whether these suggestions should be based on a player and player alone (to develop him into a better footballer) or should it take into account of your team and tactics (eg. winger should have maximum pace to be effective in our fluid counter-attack formation and his skills with the ball are less important). I'm not sure that SI code is that complex, but it's an interesting idea.

if it's a young player, who's to say his dribbling should only increase from 7 to 8? FM makes working on weaknesses a waste of time with the baffling "no longer a weakness" message. if you can't shape your players your way you might as well not have individual focus training in the game.

[DarJ]

12 hours ago, properdisco said:

no longer a weakness

You shouldn’t listen to that. You shouldn’t even listen to your staff as their suggestions are based not on how you’ve set up your team but on their preferred style etc. I only look at them to see what they say in case I missed something but I generally do my things my way.

 I was surprised the other day when I was preparing for a game and I was looking at the opposition scout and analyst report and I made mental notes of things I wanted to change in my tactics and funny enough the assistant manager recommended the same changes 

[du Garbandier]

The trouble with focus training is often that the specific thing you want to focus on is one of three or four related issues, when the others aren't weaknesses. For instance, I realized with a shudder that my first-choice goalie has a passing attribute of 3! His kicking & throwing are both well over 10. So I put him on short distribution and he hates it. Even more frustrating, I gave myself super goalie-distribution coaching powers when setting up, and I can't use it because there's only handling and shot-stopping options in the coaching setup.

Sometimes the disparities don't make much sense. How does someone with technique 12 have first touch of 5? 

[Draakon]

17 minutes ago, du Garbandier said:

The trouble with focus training is often that the specific thing you want to focus on is one of three or four related issues, when the others aren't weaknesses. For instance, I realized with a shudder that my first-choice goalie has a passing attribute of 3! His kicking & throwing are both well over 10. So I put him on short distribution and he hates it. Even more frustrating, I gave myself super goalie-distribution coaching powers when setting up, and I can't use it because there's only handling and shot-stopping options in the coaching setup.

Sometimes the disparities don't make much sense. How does someone with technique 12 have first touch of 5? 

 

Sometimes disparities don't make sense, I agree. But if you put training in real life context - in real life it would be pretty difficult to train just one attribute. It's difficult to train pace without affecting acceleration. It's difficult to train shooting or dribbling without affecting technique. It's difficult to train passing/vision or set piece delivery without affecting crossing and technique etc.

What SI have done - they've grouped them quite logically so that all individual training schedules include 2-3 attributes, not to "overpower" any individual training schedule. So the fact that it sometimes doesn't seem 100% accurate or necessary, looks like a minor issue.

[HurkaDurk69]

23 minutes ago, du Garbandier said:

How does someone with technique 12 have first touch of 5? 

Incase you didn't know, Technique is used for mor than just First Touch. Pretty much every single Technical Attribute IIRC

[du Garbandier]

59 minutes ago, Draakon said:

in real life it would be pretty difficult to train just one attribute

I agree, but you could, IRL, explain to the coaches the reason for putting the focus there.

[Broetchenholer]

Yes, the fact that one of three good attribute means your assistants hate your individual training assignments is really annoying. Or that strikers with 10 pace and acceleration don't have a weakness anymore... 

The more important issue is though, that I am not sure how important corner free kick and penalty ratings truly are. Regens, especially those affordable to smaller clubs, tend to not have those. Or, more precisely, they tend to not also have those. There is a real shortage of well rounded low level Regens in the game, so that those attributes usually get lower over time.