Is there a place for 'plug and play' tactics?

[PigeonStrangler]

I know sentiment on here is that there should be no such thing as one tactic that a team plays all the time and gets results with.  However, in reality some managers do have one tactic that they rarely deviate from and do enjoy success with it.  Some managers have a strict philosophy, while others are more fluent.

In Scotland we have Rangers and Celtic.  Rangers are a very fluid side who like to switch things up on a game-by-game basis.  Celtic have a manager who won't deviate from a high pressing 4-3-3 domestically or in Europe because that's the meta of the game.

Now, in real life there's advantages and disadvantages to each.  By playing the same formation and tactic constantly a team can become well drilled at it, and struggle to adapt.  A team that adapts constantly can struggle against those who have a strict philosophy, however, Rangers managed to reach a major European final, and qualify for the Champions League, using a fluid style with no set style or tactic - So it clearly has merit too.

I think some fluid teams can enjoy success without the need to train on one or two primary tactics - In the game they're at a disadvantage because you have low familiarity.

I also believe if you have a tactic that is the meta of the game, and you have the best players, there's no reason why you shouldn't expect success in the majority of games.  So a high pressing 4-3-3 with superior players should do well against most opponents regardless of how they choose to set up.  Is it better to adapt to best beat the opposition team, or should you worry about yourself and force others to adapt?  

Just a thought.

Edited September 17, 2022 by PigeonStrangler

[JAwtunes]

Good question and interesting choice of teams. I watched Shakhtar Celtic last night and the pundits were really complimentary about the Celtic managers tactics before the game.

I always find a solid tactic in game that I know works and stick with it, rather than trying to adapt for each game. The main reasons for this are (1) I don't have the time to analyse each opponent and adapt to min max in each game, (2) It allows me to develop players to my chosen tactic/roles/team and ind instructions from the day they arrive from the academy, and (3) I'm just not that great at building tactics in FM.

Once I find one that works and I like I just stick with it. At most I will make tweaks during big games, eg man marking an opponent's top player or those performing really well or focusing our play down one flank based on defensive weaknesses.

All that being said, I am actually planning on trying to build a solid 343 tactic again. I tried before but just couldn't get it to work, but fancy giving it another go.

[thefmveteran86]

I mean I'd love to do these plug n play but I think it would take the challenge and fun out of the tactic building

[Freakiie]

I mean, there's two different aspects here. Should a good tactic, with a good team, with players suited to that tactic be successful without too much tinkering? Yes. Should there be tactics that you can just shove onto any random team and massively over perform? Preferably not.

There are plenty of successful coaches that only really have a plan A, however, it generally takes them quite a while to successfully implement that plan A and they require players that suit their style and time for the players to learn the style. A lot of top managers don't shuffle their tactics a lot (and why would they, they're generally the top dog), but they also tend to have the financial backing to buy the players needed to play their style. The issue with the successful plug and play tactics in FM is that they can easily be implemented across a way too large variety of teams, regardless of player styles and quality.

In one of my future journey man saves I started at Dynamo Kyiv, made a strikerless 5-2-3 because why not, instantly challenged Shaktar (who had won every season until then, so they had like 10 titles in a row or something) in my first season and if it wasn't for Ukraine having play offs in case #1 and #2 are on the same points I would've won the championship (of course the only loss to Shaktar that season was that very play off match, after the worst penalty shootout I've ever seen ), I then dominated Ukraine in season 2, moved on to Mainz, same tactic, massively over performed and dragged Mainz into the CL in my first full season, moved to Barcelona, again same 5-2-3 and dominated Spain and won the CL.

Now I'm by no means some strategical mastermind, but the fact that I could take that 5-2-3 across 3 different leagues and teams in different positions, with all 3 not having squads that really were suited for a 5-2-3 and easily out perform expectations right off the bat feels way too easy.

[Grifty]

Rather than play a tactic that counters/takes into account the opposition, I designed my tactic based on what positions I am good at scouting/finding and a tactic that will play the sort of football I like. I've built it up over 4 of so FMs until FM21 where I think I've found the sweet point.

It started as a 4-4-2 favouring getting the ball in behind for the wingers to cross from the byline to two tall forwards.

I found I could never sign good full backs, so went for a 3-1-4-2. It also meant I had an extra 'big' buy for set pieces.

I then found a central midfielder who stats wise was amazing, and I got a better tune out of him than any CM I had before, but felt there was more to come from him, so pushed him forward in a 3-4-1-2. This was where my tactic took off and have now won 39 Premier Leagues in a row. The only things I have changed at all are the CM roles to both be BBM(S).

The tactic relies on having physically big defenders with good passing attributes, fast wingers with good crossing and fast forwards as the AM can thread balls through or over the top while still having the threat from the wings.

[Brasilia88]

Are you having fun? Yes, then you do you. From what I´ve read, defensive tactics in the current match engine are not working as supposed to. From a tecnical viewpoint, the game is based on math and RNG. Therefore, one could argue that the plug-and-play versions are the most ´calculated´ ones and have a higher probability of giving you a better result. Whereas the one you create from scratch might not have the same odds of competing against the AI. 

[podunkboy]

I've never been able to keep from meddling from "plug and play" tactics, so I don't use them. I take over a club, I look at the top 11 players, and I build a tactic around them, or I build a tactic and get rid of everyone who doesn't fit it. And then I build two more tactics that are kinda similar but not really and rotate through all three of them in a season. My tactical brilliance/idiocy can not be equaled. 

[phnompenhandy]

There seem to be two quite separate topics being conflated here - real-life football, and FM.

 

FM - sure there's a place. Managers who just want to win and can't be bothered to devise their own tactics can plug-n-play, why not? The big difference between this and real life is the "plug" aspect - using tactics someone else created by breaking or at least exploiting the ME, and downloading it for your team. There's nothing realistic about that, but it's your game, so hey.

 

Real-life: What I've noticed this season in the Premier League is that the gap is closing between the elite managers and the next tier. The elite managers like Guardiola, Klopp and Conte are recognised as tactical gods, but they've been challenged by the likes of Potter and Frank who are getting great performances with lesser players. In many cases, with Potter being an exemplar, they are tactically reactive, which means their tactics change according to the opposition, both from game to game and within games. Any FM manager who dies that has my wholehearted admiration - they really understand tactics on the fly. But I don't think many are that smart, and most work out one or two tactics for their team and just keep those going throughout their career.

[PigeonStrangler]

13 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

There seem to be two quite separate topics being conflated here - real-life football, and FM.

 

FM - sure there's a place. Managers who just want to win and can't be bothered to devise their own tactics can plug-n-play, why not? The big difference between this and real life is the "plug" aspect - using tactics someone else created by breaking or at least exploiting the ME, and downloading it for your team. There's nothing realistic about that, but it's your game, so hey.

 

Real-life: What I've noticed this season in the Premier League is that the gap is closing between the elite managers and the next tier. The elite managers like Guardiola, Klopp and Conte are recognised as tactical gods, but they've been challenged by the likes of Potter and Frank who are getting great performances with lesser players. In many cases, with Potter being an exemplar, they are tactically reactive, which means their tactics change according to the opposition, both from game to game and within games. Any FM manager who dies that has my wholehearted admiration - they really understand tactics on the fly. But I don't think many are that smart, and most work out one or two tactics for their team and just keep those going throughout their career.

Plug and play tactics are realistic. The current Celtic manager learned his 4-3-3 high pressing system while at the Man City group who taught him that. Managers are being taught that a 4-3-3, or 4-2-3-1, with counter pressing, is the meta of the game.  They then implement what they’ve been given at other clubs. 

In real life some managers use one tactic and don’t deviate from it but still enjoy success despite their predictability.  

[Mars_Blackmon]

managers fit players into their tactics and some managers adjust tactics to suit players. With that, plug n play tactics shouldn't give you instant success as they do in FM, you literally can play unsuitable players in a OP tactic and over achieve...Attributes need to play a bigger role.

[gunnerfan]

Even in real life, there is a concept of plug and play, in that managers usually use tactical concepts that someone else devised. Tactical knowledge has evolved over time, and in all sports, there is something of a herd mentality. 

[fc.cadoni]

I would call it more "plug and play" philosophy rather than a formation alone. Formation is one dimension in the fundamentals of DNA for a club. Clubs like Barcelona, Ajax, BVB follow such a structure from Senior Team down to U15 (and even lower). Even in Basketball, the Head Coach of Spain (Sergio Scariolo) has been clearly said it in 2 minutes in this video. It's not a surprise for me why Spain is on EuroBasket Final this year and why it has consistency.