FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[Kcinnay]

After all those years, it's not unreasonable to expect something done about set pieces and international management, for example? I know FM is a complex game, but if this is it for this year, then... I don't know the English equivalent of "being happy with a dead mosquito", but that's the first thought in my head at the moment. Oh well, I'll lie back and think of England. And preorder and PAY, of course.

[SeaCarrot]

How about some HISTORICAL stats?

Why can't I see a list of every goal scorer / assister of my club or league?

I'd like to see where my wonderkid ranks, maybe he's 4th all time in the league top scorer list, that'd be neat. 

Top scorers of all time in the champions league as a list, we can see the race that gets talked about in the real world with Ronaldo and Messi..

Games like OOTP Baseball manage to keep track of every single player and 100 different stats for that player forever, but the only tidbit we get here is the sole top scorer.

FIFA Manager in 2012 had this by the way.

 

But sure, keep adding intricacies like number of shoelaces tied every 90 min in the data hub. That's a game changer for us who love to build a club and watch a world develop and grow attached to their players.

 

Oh and FIX THE EYEBROWS. That picture of Miles is a JOKE. Am I stuck with 30% of my regens having a tar black monobrow again for the 3rd year running? Cheers.

Edited October 13, 2022 by SeaCarrot

[KeiranShikari]

I believe SI have put data out there about the low % of users that set up all of their set pieces. Guess that was their way of saying it's not worth fixing. I'd say it's actually the user telling them that it's just not particularly intuitive. It's almost a cliche now but set pieces are a huge part of the modern game and it just seems crazy that this is what we have.

International stuff is similar with a low % of players using it. I think if it was fun people would play it. It's less important than set pieces but surely a lot of the stuff needed to make it fun is already in the game.

[themadsheep2001]

SI are aware of the set pieces, it needs a proper rewrite. That kind of thing is a multi year work. 

It's not just about whether you do set pieces, the entire logic around the set up and positioning and reaction needs redoing. 

[KeiranShikari]

A multi year work that should have probably started multiple years ago (maybe it has).

It does seem to be one of the most requested things this year at least.

 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, KeiranShikari said:

A multi year work that should have probably started multiple years ago (maybe it has).

It does seem to be one of the most requested things this year at least.

 

The issue is less making them varied and better, but doing it in a way the AI doesn't absolutely blown away in them by creative humans. Look at all the set piece exploits we've seen in a simple set piece module. So you have to also really improve the AI as well (and tbf, that is one of the main things they have tried to do, we'll see on release)

[Choi seung won]

MANAGER CREATION

FM23 offers more ways than ever to customise your managerial look in every career.

In terms of your manager’s physical appearance, we’ve introduced six new male and six new female hairstyles.

New suits and coats have been added for male and female managers; should you choose the former, you’ll have the option to go for a more stylish look by adding a scarf. Should you want to go for the more casual look sported by a number of the game’s top bosses, you’ll now also be able to wear a polo and jeans.

Rather excitingly, we’ve also added a range of manager accessories, including watches, earrings and gloves, for you to incorporate.

 

This feature is really useless. To be honest, decorating a soccer manager is not very visible in the game, and it's a part I don't care about at all. 
Do I need to promote such a feature?
or maybe it's the lack of other features to promote?

[unitedstian]

40 minutes ago, csw4228 said:

 

Rather excitingly, we’ve also added a range of manager accessories, including watches, earrings and gloves, for you to incorporate.

This line pisses me off

[janrzm]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

These are expectations you've created in your own head tbh. They have moved to FMFC and Football Manager doing it because they have 4x as many followers as Miles. There's more blogs to come doing the same because it's a bigger reach.

He couldn't have been any clearer about the blog so it's not really on them if you build it into something bigger than it is and then get upset. Because they didn't build that expectation. 

Whether you buy FM23 or not is upto you, but they were clear what the blog was. 

I thought the point of Miles roulette was to cover the minor and sometimes easily missed tweaks/additions that weren’t really worthy of an “official” tweet etc. The switch to adding more on FMFC is sensible but I think there’s a feeling here that some of the items covered aren’t really substantial enough to warrant a specific blog post. In truth we should be seeing exciting feature announcements on FMFC and titbits across the socials however they decide to do it.

However it’s dressed up and presented it does appear on the face of it so far that there isn’t too much new stuff in FM23. Worse and arguably less forgivable would be the continued existence of “broken” facets to the game. Set pieces for instance if it transpires they are untouched.

I’ll take some comfort from the supporter confidence addition which I feel has the potential to remove some of that generic feeling you get from club to club regardless of league, nation or level.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by janrzm

[themadsheep2001]

21 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I thought the point of Miles roulette was to cover the minor and sometimes easily missed tweaks/additions that weren’t really worthy of an “official” tweet etc. The switch to adding more on FMFC is sensible but I think there’s a feeling here that some of the items covered aren’t really substantive enough to warrant a specific blog post. In truth we should be seeing exciting feature announcements on FMFC and titbits across the socials however they decide to do it.

However it’s dressed up and presented it does appear on the face of it so far that there isn’t too much new stuff in FM23. Worse and arguably less forgivable would be the continued existence of “broken” facets to the game. Set pieces for instance if it transpires they are untouched.

I’ll take some comfort from the supporter confidence addition which I feel has the potential to remove some of that generic feeling you get from club to club regardless of league, nation or level.

 

I can't really explain it any more directly than I have done tbh. It's a simple change of direction. These still are "minor" tweaks. Miles isnt doing them any more because they want to drive people towards FMFC via Football manager, and the Football Manager account has 4x as many users as Miles, so you'll see the official and Miles driving people towards that. FMFC is going to become the centrepiece so having other information spread out doesn't work for that, the bold is a fractured approach which is the opposite of what they want to do now

[janrzm]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I can't really explain it any more directly than I have done tbh. It's a simple change of direction. These still are "minor" tweaks. Miles isnt doing them any more because they want to drive people towards FMFC via Football manager, and the Football Manager account has 4x as many users as Miles, so you'll see the official and Miles driving people towards that. FMFC is going to become the centrepiece so having other information spread out doesn't work for that, the bold is a fractured approach which is the opposite of what they want to do now

I don’t need it explaining I understand what they are doing. I’ll look forward to the FMFC blog post that more regents will have second nationality…..

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 hours ago, janrzm said:

I don’t need it explaining I understand what they are doing. I’ll look forward to the FMFC blog post that more regents will have second nationality…..

I remember when that was a feature and it didn't get fixed fully until the next version.

[Mars_Blackmon]

3 hours ago, unitedstian said:

This line pisses me off

Stuff I can add but will never see.

[Mars_Blackmon]

5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

SI are aware of the set pieces, it needs a proper rewrite. That kind of thing is a multi year work. 

It's not just about whether you do set pieces, the entire logic around the set up and positioning and reaction needs redoing. 

I guess the proper question is when did they become aware because its been terrible for a long time.

[rp1966]

Si Graphics Team meeting:

Developer: So, I know we've not got planned updates to the match graphics, but I've built a few new stadium corner assets and I've fixed that dreadful overscaled, blurred texture we've got on walls in the corners of stadiums. We've still got the rescaled stands if you'll let us implement them.

The Powers That Be: Sorry, not using it. Have you finished work on adding watches to the manager avatar?
Developer: Yes, sure, but with respect at the resolution of the manager in game no-one will ever see it
TPTB: That's not the point - adding new things to the avatar each year is just what we do.
Developer: So presumably we're going to show close-ups of the avatar at some point; that's why we're adding small details
TPTB: Why would we do that - sounds like enhancing the match visualiser,  We don't do that here. 
Developer: (thinks - wonder if Hello Games are  recruiting)
 

Edited October 14, 2022 by rp1966

[saihtam]

8 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

 

Oeh I shall be that annoying old man who whines about everything. 

BUT. You have new game coming out, marketing should be out of the roof. You have Facebook, Twitter, Youtube(where other than Miles can market it) etc to show out new features for free, where people can share those posts. And the best idea they come up with is to join up a blog to see them? I cant think of game company who before release asked you to sing up somewhere to recieve the news about the game they want you to pre purchase. What is going on in their marketing department.

NB. Yes there are companies who do early acces and beta stuff with newsletter sing up. But those places mostly to get regular notification of news, thoseo news are still easily reachable if wanted. Also this is never done few weeks before release.

Edited October 14, 2022 by saihtam

[Cro-cop]

10 hours ago, orlyzao said:

He actually seems to be proud of this. I think this says a lot about where this game is going graphically. Its 2023 in few months

[GreenTriangle]

This can also be a method to check how many of the customers are attached to the game itself and how many play an iteration only because of "new features". The resulting conclusions will be useful for the future. I'm not saying that this was the explanation. but that it could be an explanation. It was known that the "new features" fans will be extremely vocal, but they will be equally vocal no matter how many new features they see because these new features will never be satisfying enough.

Edited October 14, 2022 by GreenTriangle

[dino88]

48 minutes ago, Cro-cop said:

He actually seems to be proud of this. I think this says a lot about where this game is going graphically. Its 2023 in few months

this!! haha, proud of this?! AND THE WATCH  

I stick a profile pic and never notice my manager face anyways

[samuelawachie]

For what it’s worth, I’ll add my proverbial two cents to the fountain of people who under no circumstances will sign up to a web blog just to get info on a game. 
Thanks to the person who posted it here a few posts up. 
Also, there’s this little feature on Twitter that is called a “retweet”. Miles could’ve been retweeting the FMFC blog thingies and it will be visible to those who only follow Miles for instance, and give the FMFC / FM Twitter account even more views. 

[forameuss]

18 minutes ago, samuelawachie said:

For what it’s worth, I’ll add my proverbial two cents to the fountain of people who under no circumstances will sign up to a web blog just to get info on a game. 
Thanks to the person who posted it here a few posts up. 
Also, there’s this little feature on Twitter that is called a “retweet”. Miles could’ve been retweeting the FMFC blog thingies and it will be visible to those who only follow Miles for instance, and give the FMFC / FM Twitter account even more views. 

This annoys me too.  I've no idea why there seems a persistence on adding information to various social media accounts and blogs exclusively, or to long-form youtube videos, and neglect to post an actual readable version on their own official forums.  I've no real interest either on signing up to another website just to find out something I'll find out for myself in a few weeks anyway.

[Choi seung won]

2 hours ago, Cro-cop said:

He actually seems to be proud of this. I think this says a lot about where this game is going graphically. Its 2023 in few months

Miles must have been proud of how well his face was embodied.

The reality is that in 2023, no one will be amazed by the appearance of such a face.

Don't worry about such useless details, please do what users want.

What users want is improved stadium and spectator implementation!!!

Edited October 14, 2022 by Choi seung won

[GreenTriangle]

Rule number 1. "A game can be a good game only and only if its producers keep the players up to date with absolutely all the changes they have made, are making or will make. Possibly with explanations and justifications". The fact that in reality no game follows this rule can be ignored.

[decapitated]

21 minutes ago, forameuss said:

This annoys me too.  I've no idea why there seems a persistence on adding information to various social media accounts and blogs exclusively, or to long-form youtube videos, and neglect to post an actual readable version on their own official forums.  I've no real interest either on signing up to another website just to find out something I'll find out for myself in a few weeks anyway.

For you and @samuelawachie (I'm guessing there is no problem in me posting it on here, but if there is, then someone from the Mod team let me know and I'll delete it)

 

Quote

Many of you will have seen the Football Manager 2023 Headline Features revealed recently across our website and on YouTube.

However, they only represent some of the additions and upgrades we’ve introduced for this year’s edition. Here, exclusively for our FMFC members, we’ll pull back the curtain on six other game areas that have received big improvements for FM23 (PC/Mac).

DATA HUB

After first introducing the Data Hub in FM22, we’ve elevated it this year by adding a raft of new statistics and visuals to give you more information on the performances of your team and players, and where you stand in comparison to your rivals.

The standout new addition to the Data Hub is Expected Assists (xA). An increasingly popular statistic in real-life football analysis in recent years, xA measures the likelihood that a given pass will become a goal assist.

In FM23, you’ll see xA incorporated in multiple ways. An open play xA stat will be visible on player profiles and will also be included in many of the scatter graphs and polygons already available in the Data Hub. You will also be able to request some xA-specific visuals, namely open play xA vs actual assists, open play xA vs non-penalty xG and open play xA v Pass Success percentage.

Beyond this, we’ve added a number of new statistics, including open play key passes and open play crosses, to ensure that the resources available to you in FM23 are as close to those available to real-life coaches and analysts around the words.

All stats now have per 90 minutes metrics, allowing you to make more functional comparisons between players and teams that have played a different number of games.

You’re now able to see the number of pressure attempts, successful pressures and sprints a player has made, with the latter compared to distance covered to create a physical output visualisation. This visualisation will give you an indication of how hard your players are working and the intensity of that work.

In terms of player stats, we’ve also incorporated Progressive Passes, which are classed as completed passes that move the ball significantly closer to the opposition goal. There is an accompanying visual here too, which compares the number of progressive passes completed by a player to their pass success percentage. Through this, you’ll have a clearer assessment of the passing style of players in your league.

Passing Dynamics graphs have been introduced, while the existing performance polygons now have better detail, giving you a breakdown of the pros and cons of the data showcased.

Team stats have had an uplift, with a new Pass Map Comparison among the new items available in the Data Hub.

Also new is Passes Per Defensive Action, or PPDA. By measuring the passes completed by your opponent per defensive action completed by your team (tackle attempts, fouls and interceptions, for example) outside of your opponent’s first third, you can understand the intensity of your team’s press.

Field Tilt, meanwhile, will give you an understanding of which team has dominated a game by comparing your final third passes completed to those final third passes completed by your opponent. Both this and PPDA can be added to your Match Stats view during a game itself.

Customising your view within the Data Hub is now easier. If you click on the new Edit button, you’ll be able to access an ‘All Visuals’ dropdown which shows off the full list of available items, with labels to show whether they’re Scatter Graphs or Polygons. You can tick or untick these visuals as you want.

We’ve made it easier too for you to get a more general overview of your side’s key performance metrics, with an option introduced to set any visual as a preferred visual. To mark an item as preferred, you’ll just need to open it up in the Data Hub and click the star button. Your analyst will then take this into account when putting together your monthly reports.

MATCH ANALYTICS

As well as adding those new metrics and visualisations to the Data Hub, we’ve worked to ensure that the data that’s shown to you in matches and in inbox items is more informative and actionable.

On Matchdays, you’ll now see a couple of data visualisations incorporated into the Touchline Tablet display. One of these is the Match Momentum graph, which should offer a greater level of perspective for those managers watching fewer highlights. The other is Pass Maps for you and your opposition.

These will be sent to you during a game by your analysts, giving you data that will show you how your team is shaping up and how the match is unfolding.

To better showcase what made a match’s best player so effective, you’ll now receive bespoke Player of the Day news items featuring notable stats and visualisations highlighting their performance.

As you move through the season, you’ll begin to receive new analytics reports ranking your player or club’s performance in relation to your current competition. For example, a team item of this nature might show how well you are faring in terms of the key defensive metrics like tackles, blocks and interceptions. A player’s item, meanwhile, would show where they sit relative to other individuals in the league for goals and assists and so on.

Additionally, inbox items have also been introduced to show off players and teams that are notably under or over-performing their xG, and provide clear statistical analysis of your recent form (good or bad).

Should you want to change the frequency with which you receive reports from your analysts, this has been made easier in FM23. Instead of having to change this through the responsibilities menu, you’ll have a dropdown available to you in the news items containing the reports themselves.

ONLINE MODES

FM22 saw the return of Versus mode to the PC/Mac edition of the game as an exclusive for FMFC members. This year, we’ve levelled up its functionality to make those battles for bragging rights more engaging.

Within the leaderboards sections of Football Manager, available through the FM dropdown in the top-right of your screen, there is a new dedicated Versus mode leaderboard. You’re able to filter this by all-time performance and by your friends.

We’ve added functionality to auto-export your career mode teams at the end of every season, making it more seamless for you to step into Versus mode, load up your all-star squad and put your skills to the test. You never know, you might get the chance to take on a member of the Sports Interactive team.

Within Versus mode and Fantasy Draft, you’re now able to set the number of substitutes you want to use in the game. Whether you want to roll with the traditional three or give yourself more flexibility with five, the choice is there. You’ll also have customisation on what you want to do in extra time.

Over in Online Career mode, we’ve made it easier for you to join a friend’s game when your fixture is complete; we know how important it is to get that first-hand scouting in before your next big meeting.

MANAGER CREATION

FM23 offers more ways than ever to customise your managerial look in every career.

In terms of your manager’s physical appearance, we’ve introduced six new male and six new female hairstyles.

New suits and coats have been added for male and female managers; should you choose the former, you’ll have the option to go for a more stylish look by adding a scarf. Should you want to go for the more casual look sported by a number of the game’s top bosses, you’ll now also be able to wear a polo and jeans.

Rather excitingly, we’ve also added a range of manager accessories, including watches, earrings and gloves, for you to incorporate.

MLS

MLS is one of the world’s most complex and interesting leagues. For FM23, we’ve made a host of tweaks to improve the experience of managing in North America and reflect real-life rule changes.

We’ve added in the new Under-22 initiative introduced by MLS in 2021. Designed to foster the growth of young players in the league and make it easier for clubs to sign them, the initiative allows you to sign three players under the age of 22 to lucrative contracts at a reduced salary cap charge.

The initiative is applicable to players on their first or second contracts, as well as international players coming into the league for the first time. Once a player finishes their contract and is renewed onto a regular MLS type contract, they’ll have a normal roster spot and their salary cap hit will adjust accordingly.

A couple of changes have also been made in regard to the way Canadian players are classified for squad registration.

MLS clubs have eight international spots available by default, although the variance in rules around permanent residence in the USA and Canada means that the American clubs can typically accommodate more internationals through them acquiring residence sooner.

This essentially put the Canadian teams at somewhat of a competitive disadvantage. In order to compensate for that, MLS have given them three extra international slots moving forward. This has been reflected in FM23 – should you manage a Canadian club in MLS, you’ll see that they have eight non-tenured international slots and an additional three ‘tenured’ spots for players who’ve been playing in the league for three years, giving a total of 11. These tenured spots are not tradeable but the non-tenured ones still are.

The second Canadian change is in relation to the way their youth players are classified. In previous editions, they were marked as internationals for US-based teams. Now, any Canadian youth player trained in the USA or Canada will be considered as domestic.

Lastly, we’ve upgraded the relevant inbox items for the December Waiver Draft to provide you with a clearer explanation of the Draft rules, the players involved and why they’ve been selected.

PRE-MATCH BRIEFINGS

Pre-match briefings have also had a shake-up to improve both the content featured during them but also how this information is displayed to you as manager.

The rise of the fly-on-the-wall documentary series profiling some of English football’s biggest teams have had an input. From viewing those it became clear that players wouldn’t necessarily speak up about an issue before a game, with a gauge on their body language, emotions and potential frustrations more likely to come from an Assistant Manager.

That’s how the briefings now function in FM23, with your Assistant providing feedback. This information is now presented in a three-column grid, allowing you to see the player reactions more visibly. Should multiple players react in the same way, only the most influential player will be named but a tooltip will allow you to see all of those falling under that category.

We look forward to seeing you discover these additions and many more in the coming weeks as you get your hands on FM23 and kick-off your managerial journeys.

Check back on FMFC in the coming days for another feature drop, this time coming from Studio Director Miles Jacobson.

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by decapitated

[janrzm]

10 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

SI are aware of the set pieces, it needs a proper rewrite. That kind of thing is a multi year work. 

It's not just about whether you do set pieces, the entire logic around the set up and positioning and reaction needs redoing. 

I’m not going to comment on the multi year work because we won’t agree. That aside, If you’re going to make your customers endure that module while you take the best part of a decade to sort it how about fixing placement of the players in the meantime. It’s pretty indefensible IMO. Even worse if you’re allocating resource to elements you can’t see in game like avatar watches and arm bands.

Edited October 14, 2022 by janrzm

[themadsheep2001]

10 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I’m not going to comment on the multi year work because we won’t agree. That aside, If you’re going to make your customers endure that module while you take the best part of a decade to sort it how about fixing placement of the players in the meantime. It’s pretty indefensible IMO. Even worse if you’re allocating resource to elements you can’t see in game like avatar watches and arm bands.

The people working on avatars aren't the people working on the match engine so it changes nothing there tbh. 

[janrzm]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The people working on avatars aren't the people working on the match engine so it changes nothing there tbh. 

Adding elements that aren’t visible in game. Also changes nothing.

[Ferocious289]

4 hours ago, rp1966 said:

Si Graphics Team meeting:

Developer: So, I know we've not got planned updates to the match graphics, but I've built a few new stadium corner assets and I've fixed that dreadful overscaled, blurred texture we've got on walls in the corners of stadiums. We've still got the rescaled stands if you'll let us implement them.

The Powers That Be: Sorry, not using it. Have you finished work on adding watches to the manager avatar?
Developer: Yes, sure, but with respect at the resolution of the manager in game no-one will ever see it
TPTB: That's not the point - adding new things to the avatar each year is just what we do.
Developer: So presumably we're going to show close-ups of the avatar at some point; that's why we're adding small details
TPTB: Why would we do that - sounds like enhancing the match visualiser,  We don't do that here. 
Developer: (thinks - wonder if Hello Games are  recruiting)
 

I think the idea is to get the kids on board by sticking with minecraft level graphics

[themadsheep2001]

46 minutes ago, GreenTriangle said:

Rule number 1. "A game can be a good game only and only if its producers keep the players up to date with absolutely all the changes they have made, are making or will make. Possibly with explanations and justifications". The fact that in reality no game follows this rule can be ignored.

Was having a discussion with another user about roadmaps and whether I thought it would be good if posted. The spirit of the idea feels good, but can't help but feel all they would get is hammered for X feature being on the list/not on the list, why is this far away, why is that near instead. Which is a shame really 

[decapitated]

8 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I can't really explain it any more directly than I have done tbh. It's a simple change of direction. These still are "minor" tweaks. Miles isnt doing them any more because they want to drive people towards FMFC via Football manager, and the Football Manager account has 4x as many users as Miles, so you'll see the official and Miles driving people towards that. FMFC is going to become the centrepiece so having other information spread out doesn't work for that, the bold is a fractured approach which is the opposite of what they want to do now

I I've just checked FMFC and there are a load of articles under 'The Byline' section of FMFC about FM22 that are really interesting to me that were posted earlier in 2022 but I had no idea there were there until this very moment. I follow FM on Facebook but I don't have a Twitter account so maybe I missed them being promoted there, but my feedback would be to for FMFC to have more of these sorts of articles regularly and to promote them more including on these forums.  

[Erimus1876]

14 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Adding elements that aren’t visible in game. Also changes nothing.

This.

But I'd hazard a guess this is paving the way for cosmetic microtransactions at some point.  "Pay us $5 to see cutaway close ups of your managers avatar standing on the sideline during a match"  "For just $1.99 extra you can marvel at all his glorious bling you've also paid us extra for". 

Its coming.  And the sad part is, people will pay for it.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Erimus1876

[westy8chimp]

Same people who are underwhelmed by the 'headline' new features will be proclaiming, in the feedback thread once it is released, that FM should not have any new features and instead should spend all their time improving what is there. 

I'm delighted that they spent time (seemingly) on improving AI management. Genuine improvement, hopefully, to the match day experience. A huge part of the game. Rather than develop some new International management training. 

Squad planner looks very handy - good for the environment too as i'm sure there are a large number of us that churn through dozens of notepads per season with our squad plans. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by westy8chimp

[KillYourIdols]

Day one Purchase if a Casio Calculator watch is in.

 

[Tonton_Zola]

The situation is now exasperating - and definitely feel like it's reaching an inflection point.

Strategy is just as much about deciding what you won't do as what you will do.

Why are devs putting time into ever more sprawling feature-creep? The frankenstein monster grows more dysfunctional limbs etc...

I'd argue that the game doesn't NEED new features, it just needs what's already there to work better...it may even need some features (e.g. the reams of nonsense stuff that barely works) to be TAKEN AWAY! 

-------

If i were Miles I would keep it really simple. I.e. "we won't spend ANY time on anything else until the match visualiser is a significant improvement." I would just do that one thing and pour all resources into that. This single thing would be transformational for the series.

To be concrete:

- a dozen templated stadium 'typologies' at three levels of scale
- greater player animation variety, even if underlying AI doesn't change. 
- rebuild of player sprites/skins/outer vis - higher res, closer to what you'd expect in 2022
- rebuild of in-game lighting 

And if you can't do this why wouldn't you just license a visualisation engine and map it on to the top, so it doesn't interfere with underlying AI?

Please explain this to me. a decent graphics team could surely produce a dramatically improved 'render' on top of the underlying information within a few weeks?

what am i missing? 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Tonton_Zola

[aj6658]

11 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

I believe SI have put data out there about the low % of users that set up all of their set pieces. Guess that was their way of saying it's not worth fixing. I'd say it's actually the user telling them that it's just not particularly intuitive. It's almost a cliche now but set pieces are a huge part of the modern game and it just seems crazy that this is what we have.

International stuff is similar with a low % of players using it. I think if it was fun people would play it. It's less important than set pieces but surely a lot of the stuff needed to make it fun is already in the game.

Difficult one to identify if its causation (Bad system so less people use it) or correlation (People arent interested and not using it)

Personally i dont really care about set pieces but im the type of player who plays with bigger teams and dont really do journeymens so most of my interest is away from deadball situations. If they improved it would i invest more time into it? Probably not but i see why other players would and as its a integral part of football now days (Specialised coaches more prominent), it should be looked into.  

As mentioned above, it would take alot of investment to work out the reactions and core attributes to make it work and not be overpowered but this investment would benefit outside of the system as well

[aj6658]

39 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The people working on avatars aren't the people working on the match engine so it changes nothing there tbh. 

Think the question is where do you put your resources. If the graphics aren't able to show the watch you're wearing in the game and you hardly ever see your avatar then why are resources being spent on people who add that to the game. Wouldn't that money be better spent in hiring one person who can work on the AI or ME? 

Its comes down to what we are gaining in this iteration. These additions  cannot be see in game therefore are wasted time and effort. Its like SI going we have accurately added tattoos of players exactly like they are i real life - yeah thats great, wanna improve the ME though?

[AllyJoseph]

I don't have the time to keep up with the forums as much as I should so maybe this has been addressed, but a few pages ago the argument against graphical improvements seemed to be "losing the lower spec computer customer base".

Rubbish. A massive improvement in graphics with ray tracing, in 4k, needing a 4080 wouldn't stop them watching the game in 2D or commentary only. The only thing it would do is sate the annoyance of people who want improvements(which is a massive growing voice) or, snag a new demographic. How many copies did F1 Manager sell? It's "engine" is rubbish, the game is a shell, but it sold off the hype of being the first F1 Management game in years and also its impressive graphics. I'd probably not just look at my own sales data, look at the management game space, some management games sell like crazy.

All that aside, lets say that our 2005 laptop users still want to watch the match engine. Most other games would allow the user to tweek a HOST of graphics. Let these users watch "3d classic" on "low" settings, let top rig users watch on "ultra".

FM looks worse than FIFA Manager 2013. There's apps on mobiles which has better textures and stadiums. Smackdown 2 had better crowds ffs. Then you look at all the stuff OOTP Baseball series crams into its game, it just feels like FM has really got too comfortable with its status as the top dog and industry leader that its dropped the ball.

How much longer trying to hold onto that older customer base(which they could keep with tweeks) will they actually start to lose others, or how much money do they leave on the table yearly with people who now buy bi-annually, or maybe once every 3-4 years.

I love the game, I love seeing names of people I've never met who have worked on the game since I was a kid still working on the game. I'd never call their dedication or passion for the project into question. However, I do think they've perhaps got too comfortable in being successful regardless of what they release. Please, for the love of God, just give us something, anything.

[PigeonStrangler]

On 08/10/2022 at 18:51, gunner86 said:

I’m not saying no one would upgrade, I’m saying there is a proportion that wouldn’t, for every single person I know that plays the game on an old machine, they do so because the machine can, they did not buy the machine because it runs FM. There are people who buy laptops just to play FM but most who do will buy the cheapest that can get away with running it.
But I’d love to know who these 99% of people are who will buy a £400+ laptop just to carry on playing a £40 game… I’ve got some magic beans I’d like to sell them. I’d also be interested to meet these people buying new fridges just to play FM on.

My PC cost me about £1000 to build.  I use it exclusively for playing games.  This isn’t uncommon. 

[themadsheep2001]

7 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Think the question is where do you put your resources. If the graphics aren't able to show the watch you're wearing in the game and you hardly ever see your avatar then why are resources being spent on people who add that to the game. Wouldn't that money be better spent in hiring one person who can work on the AI or ME? 

Its comes down to what we are gaining in this iteration. These additions  cannot be see in game therefore are wasted time and effort. Its like SI going we have accurately added tattoos of players exactly like they are i real life - yeah thats great, wanna improve the ME though?

They've hired more people than ever in the last 2 years and the ME/AI team is the biggest it's ever been. Don't think resources on that front is something to worry about. If people don't care/like something that's absolutely upto them. But the resources argument isn't really here or there. Indeed we already know they are investing heavily and gearing up for women's football being added, and a lot of the benefits of that can also go into the men's game too. 

[Vali184]

Looks like I'll still play FM21. 2 years skipped in a row. There's no point in supporting this circus with my own money. 

[PigeonStrangler]

11 hours ago, csw4228 said:

MANAGER CREATION

FM23 offers more ways than ever to customise your managerial look in every career.

In terms of your manager’s physical appearance, we’ve introduced six new male and six new female hairstyles.

New suits and coats have been added for male and female managers; should you choose the former, you’ll have the option to go for a more stylish look by adding a scarf. Should you want to go for the more casual look sported by a number of the game’s top bosses, you’ll now also be able to wear a polo and jeans.

Rather excitingly, we’ve also added a range of manager accessories, including watches, earrings and gloves, for you to incorporate.

 

This feature is really useless. To be honest, decorating a soccer manager is not very visible in the game, and it's a part I don't care about at all. 
Do I need to promote such a feature?
or maybe it's the lack of other features to promote?

I agree with this 100%.  I don’t care about manager customisation.  I don’t care about seeing my team walk out on to the pitch before the game.  This is all just meaningless bloat that takes 100 clicks to get tot he games and back.  I turn all this off whenever possible.

What we need is improvement to the features already in the game.  We also need to get rid of all these useless additions that do nothing for the game other than bloat it and make it unreasonably long to play. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by PigeonStrangler

[aj6658]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They've hired more people than ever in the last 2 years and the ME/AI team is the biggest it's ever been. Don't think resources on that front is something to worry about. 

But you do see how lubricious it is to be adding "features" which you can safely say have no impact whatsoever to the game in its current state?  Every game has budgets, im just saying that money is better spent elsewhere 

[andu1]

The AI changes seem important  but without any comparison with the previous versions how will we know what's changed? Will the AI be better at using formations? will they not be obsessed with 4-2-3-1 Wide like in the previous versions?

Will they be able to use another formation if what's not  in their pref list is not cutting it? Will they adapt to a trending style over time?

Any changes to AI squad building?
 

If they put so much work in AI , why not delve into it a bit more ?

[DP]

20 minutes ago, Tonton_Zola said:

The situation is now exasperating - and definitely feel like it's reaching an inflection point.

Strategy is just as much about deciding what you won't do as what you will do.

Why are devs putting time into ever more sprawling feature-creep? The frankenstein monster grows more dysfunctional limbs etc...

I'd argue that the game doesn't NEED new features, it just needs what's already there to work better...it may even need some features (e.g. the reams of nonsense stuff that barely works) to be TAKEN AWAY! 

-------

If i were Miles I would keep it really simple. I.e. "we won't spend ANY time on anything else until the match visualiser is a significant improvement." I would just do that one thing and pour all resources into that. This single thing would be transformational for the series.

To be concrete:

- a dozen templated stadium 'typologies' at three levels of scale
- greater player animation variety, even if underlying AI doesn't change. 
- rebuild of player sprites/skins/outer vis - higher res, closer to what you'd expect in 2022
- rebuild of in-game lighting 

And if you can't do this why wouldn't you just license a visualisation engine and map it on to the top, so it doesn't interfere with underlying AI?

Please explain this to me. a decent graphics team could surely produce a dramatically improved 'render' on top of the underlying information within a few weeks?

what am i missing? 

 

I would say they are working on a brand new engine behind the scenes - graphically and mechanically - so are reluctant to change too much in the match experience as it’s ‘waste’. Only explanation I can see. 

[PigeonStrangler]

5 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

But you do see how lubricious it is to be adding "features" which you can safely say have no impact whatsoever to the game in its current state?  Every game has budgets, im just saying that money is better spent elsewhere 

The same could be said of the logos they purchased for this game.  We all use face and logo packs so what difference does that make? None.  That money should’ve been spent elsewhere.  The community has created a software that creates very realistic faces of people that have never even existed.  This is completely game changing when it comes to regens.  Why can the community do that, but paid employees as SI can’t? 

Edited October 14, 2022 by PigeonStrangler

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, aj6658 said:

But you do see how lubricious it is to be adding "features" which you can safely say have no impact whatsoever to the game in its current state?  Every game has budgets, im just saying that money is better spent elsewhere 

Some people actually want that go have a look at the features request. Now I don't care about avatars, but then I don't presume to think every feature needs to be something I like (for example I absolutely do not care about a stadium editor ever being available) SI know their resources better than anyone of us. I'm not going to tell them how to spend their money. 

[(sic)]

1 minute ago, DP said:

I would say they are working on a brand new engine behind the scenes - graphically and mechanically - so are reluctant to change too much in the match experience as it’s ‘waste’. Only explanation I can see. 

I really hope that's the case. But we simply don't know that. 

If there was any transparency, they could've just said it. It would put people at ease, knowing that there are big changes coming, which is the reason for lack of meaningful updates each year. 

 

[PigeonStrangler]

13 minutes ago, AllyJoseph said:

I don't have the time to keep up with the forums as much as I should so maybe this has been addressed, but a few pages ago the argument against graphical improvements seemed to be "losing the lower spec computer customer base".

Rubbish. A massive improvement in graphics with ray tracing, in 4k, needing a 4080 wouldn't stop them watching the game in 2D or commentary only. The only thing it would do is sate the annoyance of people who want improvements(which is a massive growing voice) or, snag a new demographic. How many copies did F1 Manager sell? It's "engine" is rubbish, the game is a shell, but it sold off the hype of being the first F1 Management game in years and also its impressive graphics. I'd probably not just look at my own sales data, look at the management game space, some management games sell like crazy.

All that aside, lets say that our 2005 laptop users still want to watch the match engine. Most other games would allow the user to tweek a HOST of graphics. Let these users watch "3d classic" on "low" settings, let top rig users watch on "ultra".

FM looks worse than FIFA Manager 2013. There's apps on mobiles which has better textures and stadiums. Smackdown 2 had better crowds ffs. Then you look at all the stuff OOTP Baseball series crams into its game, it just feels like FM has really got too comfortable with its status as the top dog and industry leader that its dropped the ball.

How much longer trying to hold onto that older customer base(which they could keep with tweeks) will they actually start to lose others, or how much money do they leave on the table yearly with people who now buy bi-annually, or maybe once every 3-4 years.

I love the game, I love seeing names of people I've never met who have worked on the game since I was a kid still working on the game. I'd never call their dedication or passion for the project into question. However, I do think they've perhaps got too comfortable in being successful regardless of what they release. Please, for the love of God, just give us something, anything.

I actually purchased the F1 Manager game.  Graphically it’s fantastic.  Most of the joy people have with these simulation games comes from watching it everything you’ve done play out.  We want to see the races, the city streets, the baseball fields, the football pitches, etc.  These should be given the highest possible priority.

I find it hard to believe that SI can’t provide us with a better match engine that this.  FIFA’s games looked better 10 years ago.  So what is happening?

[aj6658]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Some people actually want that go have a look at the features request. Now I don't care about avatars, but then I don't presume to think every feature needs to be something I like (for example I absolutely do not care about a stadium editor ever being available) SI know their resources better than anyone of us. I'm not going to tell them how to spend their money. 

Ive seen people ask for the ability to spend their in game salary. Asking for a feature when graphically the game cannot show it is not a question of me not liking something, its just plain crazy to put it lightly. 

SI knows this isnt going to sell units. Its there to make blogs look bigger. To make it look like each iteration has more changes than the last. 

If we are going on what people requested, why not put the effort in redesigning the stadiums than your own character since we see significantly more of that ? Would have a much greater impact 

[SMV90]

On 29/09/2022 at 21:12, lukavski said:

We had Zebre...
We can have a fictional Japanese league.

 

New Regen Faces would be awesome...

Regen faces are very important to us who play way beyond real players' careers. It's one of the best ways to make players feel unique and to deepen immersion.

Right now a lot of players play the game with regen faces turned off because of how they look.

Which is why most of us just use NewGan manager. A way to get realistic looking faces for regens.