The game is too easy again...

[Nahuelzn]

Since I don't think SI will ever introduce difficulty levels or something like that, there's only much you can do to make the game more difficult:

1) Play with a skin that hide your players attributes. You'll see the difficult of this when the transfer market is open: every player you buy has a bigger question mark and you can really end up having a bad season following a bad transfer window. Specially in lower leagues where you don't have that many scouts and most of the players you'll bring won't be fully scouted (if you limit trials, another difficulty layer).

2) Use the in-game editor to help other teams in your league. I know this isn't ideal, but a way to "fix" the bad AI squad building* is to just do it yourself. I always make the big teams in the league I'm playing stronger by getting them players with higher CA in positions they lack. Also, I tend to send youth good players from them on loan to other clubs in the league to strenght other squads and also give them playing time. If you want to go one step further, you can increase morale and tactical familiarity for those teams. 

3) Don't play in England. Start a lower league save in a different country, the smaller and unknown that country is, the better. You won't have access to a big player pool to strenght your squad originally, so you'll just struggle more.

Eventually, the game will become easier and you'll dominate your league. But that's just because you can overwhelm the AI in almost every instance. It's just the way it is. I do believe that SI should aim to a difficult game, where squad building is a challenge, but I do know that people gets frustrated when their lose, so I think I'm in the minority on this side.

* When you think on squads independently, then yes, AI squad building is "poor". But when you take into factor that the AI has to build thousands of squads every transfer market, where players are moving constantly from one side to another, and provide a balanced squad for each one of them, I think it deserves some respect from SI devs. It's not easy to do that and there're improvements edition after edition.

 

[dannysheard]

20 minutes ago, Matt_1979 said:

Learn to play the game. 
 

Do what real managers do. Look at stats. Look at scout reports. 

Will do, thanks.

[wkdsoul]

37 minutes ago, CelticCelticCeltic said:

How do you do that? 

 

[SergeiG]

I'll tell you what guys.

When you say that it's up to me to make the game challenging you basically give the devs a free pass to keep making an inferior product with crappy AI. It's not my responsibility to make the game good, fun or challenging.

Every level of the game supposed to have its own challenge. Just go ask Klop, Tuchel and Eric Ten Hag how not challenging it is to play at the top of the PL when the smallest of things can get you sacked. Tuchel won the CL after a few months at the club, look at him now. The facts are - Manchester United are no longer a top 2 or even a top 5 team in England and yet for me, A guy who sets up a basic tactic and use it for like 3 seasons straight and pay little attention to training can just press continue for 2-3 days, watch some matches and make some subs and win the treble like it's nothing, Something is wrong with this game.

 

The bottom line is, it's not my responsibility to make the game interesting and by not holding SI responsible for making the AI better and the game a bit more challenging we allow them to keep making the same watered down inferior product.

 

[IrrelevantLion]

The annual humblebrag thread 

[SergeiG]

Oh yeah, and Ronaldo who in real life cant score a goal this season if his life depends on it, is outscoring Haaland in the game. 10/10 for challenge and realism.

[harrycarrie]

State of some replies in this thread is mad.

 

'Manage from the 27th tier of English football or do one' is such a lol answer.

[DP]

19 minutes ago, wkdsoul said:

 

This would be great if things like player ratings were not broken. If there are in game stats you can’t rely on then why bother?

[SergeiG]

53 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

State of some replies in this thread is mad.

 

'Manage from the 27th tier of English football or do one' is such a lol answer.

I am a capitalist so I understand the sad truth of life.

 

[Brother Ben]

6 hours ago, s1111 said:

Bournemouth literally did this

Swansea did it twice

[dannysheard]

49 minutes ago, IrrelevantLion said:

The annual humblebrag thread 

We're not saying we're amazing, we're saying the game is so easy it makes us look amazing.

If you don't find it too easy, that's not a problem. This thread doesn't concern you.

But at least you got to use humblebrag again.

[dannysheard]

46 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

State of some replies in this thread is mad.

 

'Manage from the 27th tier of English football or do one' is such a lol answer.

It's like when you're trying to have a serious conversation about your team and then that guy at work comes over and says "wot we need is more tall players, get the ball in the mixer, none of this tactics rubbish"

[FrazT]

@SergeiG  We get that you think that the game is too easy, others don't and they have as much right as you to express their opinion.  I have edited out some of the comments in some of your recent posts, so please keep the tone of your posts civil and respectful.

[FrazT]

General warning- please keep the sniping down and respect other's views.

[SergeiG]

2 minutes ago, FrazT said:

@SergeiG  We get that you think that the game is too easy, others don't and they have as much right as you to express their opinion.  I have edited out some of the comments in some of your recent posts, so please keep the tone of your posts civil and respectful.

No, They think it's MY job as a paying costumer to make the game better for myself and not hold the devs responsible for their own product but I get your point. I let my temper do the typing. Sorry mate.

The reason for my temper tho is that I am very passionate about the game I have been playing for 20 years now and it makes me mad to watch the devs and some of the player base let things like that slide and pass the responsibility to the players.

it's like making a broken game and expect the modding community to fix it. it's a bad business practice.

[chewbaccaloveaddiction]

4 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

going away from the United is OP, the game either needs to allow settings to increase/decrease various effects on gameplay or just stop adding features that have minimal effects on the game. Like supporter's confidence. There should be adjustable settings for things like familiarity, cohesion, injuries  morale, etc.

 

That would be amazing, but it's probably a lot of work and there are so many things in the game that just don't work or don't do anything, I'm not too confident.

[Pafnus]

Guys how can game be too easly?

 

Ai and players uses same match engine is not it? So how can be game too easy?

[GreenTriangle]

1 hour ago, SergeiG said:

The reason for my temper tho is that I am very passionate about the game I have been playing for 20 years now

This is something worth appreciating. Honestly, I don't think I would have the patience to play an easy game for 20 years.

[FrazT]

1 hour ago, SergeiG said:

No, They think it's MY job as a paying costumer to make the game better for myself and not hold the devs responsible for their own product but I get your point. I let my temper do the typing. Sorry mate.

The reason for my temper tho is that I am very passionate about the game I have been playing for 20 years now and it makes me mad to watch the devs and some of the player base let things like that slide and pass the responsibility to the players.

it's like making a broken game and expect the modding community to fix it. it's a bad business practice.

Fine- passion is understood and appreciated- as long as you counter that with respect then all will be good.

[mikcheck]

I don't go as far as attributeles, but I play with stars instead of attributes and also no CA/PA stars, just scout reports. Also no player search and I leave scouting to scout chief. I try to make it more challenging by playing that way.

Edited October 23, 2022 by mikcheck

[phd_angel]

Is this FM23 already?  (I just downloaded beta and installed skins and packs, but am waiting for the Brazilian club name fix, initial bug clearance, and @Daveincid's initial realism patches).

In my current & last FM22 save as journeyman, I took Fiorentina from relegation to champion of Serie A and runner-up on Euro in less than 2 seasons. How is that even possible!?

Yes, FM is quite easy.

Edited October 23, 2022 by phd_angel

[T-IceMan]

29 minutes ago, phd_angel said:

Is this FM23 already?  (I just downloaded beta and installed skins and packs, but am waiting for the Brazilian club name fix, initial bug clearance, and @Daveincid's initial realism patches).

In my current & last FM22 save as journeyman, I took Fiorentina from relegation to champion of Liga A and runner-up on Euro in less than 2 seasons. How is that even possible!?

Yes, FM is quite easy.

sent u a message

On the topic, Having a decent competitive time in the Dutch league with Ajax at the moment, both Feyenoord and PSV are on my heels constantly, so for me its not too easy so far.

Edited October 23, 2022 by T-IceMan

[phd_angel]

33 minutes ago, T-IceMan said:

sent u a message

On the topic, Having a decent competitive time in the Dutch league with Ajax at the moment, both Feyenoord and PSV are on my heels constantly, so for me its not too easy so far.

Thanks so much for your help! 

[patpul]

4 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

I don't think I would have the patience to play an easy game for 20 years.

Maybe it's something like stockholm syndrome? Moaning that the game was to too easy in the past, but preorder the newest version.

For me it's not too easy, and I play for 25 years - from CM97/98. I have in this game everyting to make it harder. Even don't have to use any add-ons made by other players. I.e. if I want, I can use search player option, but don't have to. I can let to make everything to my DoF - so he will be buying any selling players to and from my team, I can be former football star and get the highest manager licence, but don't have to. There is so many opion to choose, so many ways to play this game and make it more challenging, that just depends on every single person, what will choose. IMO there is no need to introduce difficulty levels.

Finally - I don't have to buy the game before it is released, especially if I was disappointed before. I can wait for opinion of other players or check demo.

Edited October 23, 2022 by patpul

[Mars_Blackmon]

8 hours ago, Weller1980 said:

It's disappointing that the game is still too easy, I was hoping with the new ai manager stuff and better defensive play this version of FM would be more challenging but it's just the same as fm22. 

I can simply use a pre defined tactic and click continue to win, team talks, training, press stuff, Tactics does not make difference to the outcome, even players on very low fitness levels playblinders and get high match ratings. 

Perhaps realistic injury rates would make the game more difficult, at the end of the day I'm disappointed again. I

Maybe next year it will work like Pressing did in FM22 which was introduced in FM21...

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, patpul said:

Maybe it's something like stockholm syndrome? Moaning that the game was to too easy in the past, but preorder the newest version.

For me it's not too easy, and I play for 25 years - from CM97/98. I have in this game everyting to make it harder. Even don't have to use any add-ons made by other players. I.e. if I want, I can use search player option, but don't have to. I can let to make everything to my DoF - so he will be buying any selling players to and from my team, I can be former football star and get the highest manager licence, but don't have to. There is so many opion to choose, so many ways to play this game and make it more challenging, that just depends on every single person, what will choose. IMO there is no need to introduce difficulty levels.

Finally - I don't have to buy the game before it is released, especially if I was disappointed before. I can wait for opinion of other players or check demo.

Can't ask people to use house rules for a challenge...SI need to stop adding fluff to the game that doesn't make a difference in gameplay. How strong is the AI manager's adapting? Seems like minimal. If you are going to add a feature, then go all in with it. Stop being timid.

 

Not to mention pin point passes from balls over the top that leads to goals is an unintentional exploit just like near post corners which haven’t been fixed yet.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[RandomGuy.]

I think the issue is the AI in game just cant be as "smart" as the human player. Its just not possible at this moment.

The way around it, i would guess, is letting the AI see all the hidden attributes the player cant, so it makes better signings, but i think SI have always been clear they want the AI and player to have the same "tools".

I think to make it harder you have to just disarm yourself. Build your own tactic, do your own training, hide the attributes, no star ratings. Issue as a big club is you'll, generally, already know who is good and who isnt, and who the wonderkids are, so i wonder if its an idea to use the regen players from the start? Although that wouldnt be for everyone.

Im not sure theres an AI set up going they could build to compete with the human player without it just being one league loaded. Youre competing against something trying to control hundreds of clubs at once, really, so the logic it has will always be fairly restricted to deal with that.

[nico_france]

Playing in France,

if you avoid picking PSG, it’s almost impossible to win the league during the first season, it will be possible if and only if PSG is underperforming 

Especially with transfers off, struggle is real

And i feel like it’s logical, because this team is galaxies away from all the others 

[dannysheard]

The whole argument against difficulty levels for me is like certain kids at school arguing we don't need different maths sets as they already find the basic maths hard enough.

That's exactly why you have different maths sets.

[sthptngomad76]

I’m have to concur with OP in this. This has happened since around fm 20, if not earlier.

I have now started the game with three teams- a Romanian second division team, a VNL team, and an EPL team. All expected to finish in the bottom 3-4.

I have used a tactic that is fair and common in todays game- a gengenpress style tactic that is selectable and an option and doesn’t require any unusual tactics or player positions.

All three times, I overachieved to the point where I was just clicking continue and usually winning, with an odd loss. Usually top 1-2. Not undefeated, but I was at times getting excited when my opponent took the lead, lest they put up a fight, only to be a bit disappointed when my own side grabbed a 90th winner. I just feel no desire to search for players or use data visualization, squad planner, talk to media- like I did in previous versions. So I went back to FM14-16.

I don’t want to just select players starting with the letter B, or avoid entire tactical strategies, or play my striker in goal, or buy only players from obscure countries in an effort to avoid winning.

I just want to work for my wins a bit and sadly, despite the early promises of “improved manager AI”, it’s just another empty promise from SI. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by sthptngomad76

[dannyfc]

1 hour ago, dannysheard said:

The whole argument against difficulty levels for me is like certain kids at school arguing we don't need different maths sets as they already find the basic maths hard enough.

That's exactly why you have different maths sets.

How would you propose a difficulty level is implemented? AI teams get a boost to their attributes? More money? Better Newgens? 

All those solutions sounds gimmicky to me and would ruin the immersion. The unfortunate truth is AI just isn't anywhere near good enough yet to challenge a human in abstract concepts. That isn't a SIGames issue, that's an industry wide constraint hence why most games opt for giving the AI an unfair advantage to remedy. The only alternative is to handicap yourself, use a team with small budgets, restrictions on players you can buy, mods to disguise the data you can see. 

The top team problem is exacerbated by the fact the game cannot replicate all the real life challenges managers experience. Liverpool have a squad of elite talent who are completely suited to their style of play. Naturally all a player needs to do to secede is simply implement that style of football and maintain baseline morale in players so they perform their best. That's never going to be a difficult challenge for anyone other than complete beginners. 

The question then is how do you accurately replicate the real life struggles of management without making the game boring?

This season Liverpool are struggling due to the number of injuries, low morale, and inexplicable drops in key players form. All of which are difficult to implement in the game without frustrating the player. Injuries and inconsistent form are largely out of the players hands, so increasing this leads to complaints about the game "cheating" or being "FM'd". I think SIGames have previously said injury frequency is lower than real life for this reason. 

Morale management and squad unity is more interesting as to a certain extent its the biggest factor to real life success. Inspiring players and keeping the dressing room on side will ultimately make or break the success of a manager's reign. This is the area with the most scope for improvement in the series, but given this is largely dependent on human interactions the game will always struggle to replicate this in a satisfying way.

The player interactions just feel robotic and somewhat arbitrary, to the point I more or less ignore the function entirely as you're likely to create more issues than it's worth. Similarly with team talks and in-game shouts.  But again without huge advancements in AI, I have no idea on what the game can do to address this in and entertaining way. Would love to know what other people think would be an improvement, and if there are any other game examples that could be co-opted. How can you simulate charisma? Maybe introduce more RPG elements? Not sure. 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by dannyfc

[Ferocious289]

How can you play with Liverpool, the most op team in the game and complain about the game being too easy? It's like managing PSG, winning ligue 1 every season then saying the game isn't challenging

[rp1966]

I think there's a few issues here.  

In the specific case of Man Utd and many long term high profile players, they end up over-rated once decline starts. The researchers always seem to be very slow to acknowledge when fan favourites like Ronaldo lose it.  It's annoying to see Mr '"I can't take the fact I'm past it" playing like he's still in his prime, but ultimately it's just a player with high attributes and reputation so it is what it is.

The biggest issue is your skill at the game and the effect of pairing that with a club full of high attribute players.  It's like putting Pep into City - the only things that make it hard are intrapersonal issues of the players and a bad run of injuries.  Let's face it as far as results go (except CL) Pep at City is football on easy mode.  And that is what you get as an experienced FM player at a big club.

Boards at top level should be much more demanding and quick to ditch managers who don't meet expectations, but we all know that once you start stringing wins together the only thing that can derail you is lack of squad depth.  That is where better AI squad building would help as we could do with the human player not finding it so easy to recruit a bunch of wonderkids. But I think if SI did make boards far more impatient the it should be combined with moving 'unsackable' from the in-game editor to the main game to account for those players who just want to manage their favourite team and  wouldn't want the enforced journeyman saves that aggressive boards would cause.

Just a final caveat to what I have said - if you go shopping off wonderkid lists or use IRL knowledge to sign players your scouts haven't found then you really shouldn't then complain about the game being easy. Same with downloaded tactics that exploit the specific version of the ME.

Ultimately, in order to offer meaningful difficulty levels you need the Ai to be capable of surpassing most players (as it can in chess) - in FM this is not the case.  That only leaves either nerfing the player or artificially boosting the AI's results and that's no longer FM.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by rp1966

[sthptngomad76]

11 hours ago, Matt_1979 said:

My issue is people choosing the best teams and then complaining the game is too easy. 

You’re the best teams. You’re supposed to win. You have an advantage over the AI. 

Very probably playing 3 strikers, hamming the near post corners. 

….and you’re playing as Liverpool??? 
Amazing  

AND it’s only the beta  

 

 

 

I’ve been Wealdstone and Progresul Spartac, felt the same thing as OP. Haven’t tweaked my corners. 
I think we all want the same thing ultimately- an enjoyable, engaging, addictive game.

There’s just a sizeable proportion of this fanbase that isn’t feeling this at the moment that really only would be solved with scaleable difficulty levels. 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by sthptngomad76

[dannysheard]

3 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

How can you play with Liverpool, the most op team in the game and complain about the game being too easy? It's like managing PSG, winning ligue 1 every season then saying the game isn't challenging

The game should provide a challenge, whoever you play. Yes, it's much easier to compete as a good team but then the goalposts move in terms of what is considered success.

Nobody is saying that good teams shouldn't be able to win more matches than poor teams. You'd have to be an idiot to suggest that.

What we are saying is:

 - if you play as Utd who should be finishing around 4th-6th, it's actually very easy to win the league in the first season

 - if you play as Liverpool, who should win one or two league titles out of four and  maybe 1-in-10 Champions Leagues in real life, it's very easy to win every league title and most Champions Leagues

 - if you play as a non-league team, it's easy to win five, six, seven promotions in a row

You must get that?

The PSG argument is slightly disingenuous as they are a nation-state competing in a farmers' league so not like the Premier League. But if you managed PSG in the game, and won maybe 10 out of of 12 Champions Leagues, as would be pretty doable, that would demonstrate that the game is too easy. 

Serious question: do you think that > 50% of the people that buy the game (Liverpool, City, Utd, Barca fans etc.) should never play the game as their favourite team?

 

[dannysheard]

27 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

How would you propose a difficulty level is implemented? AI teams get a boost to their attributes? More money? Better Newgens? 

All those solutions sounds gimmicky to me and would ruin the immersion. The unfortunate truth is AI just isn't anywhere near good enough yet to challenge a human in abstract concepts. That isn't a SIGames issue, that's an industry wide constraint hence why most games opt for giving the AI an unfair advantage to remedy. The only alternative is to handicap yourself, use a team with small budgets, restrictions on players you can buy, mods to disguise the data you can see. 

The top team problem is exacerbated by the fact the game cannot replicate all the real life challenges managers experience. Liverpool have a squad of elite talent who are completely suited to their style of play. Naturally all a player needs to do to secede is simply implement that style of football and maintain baseline morale in players so they perform their best. That's never going to be a difficult challenge for anyone other than complete beginners. 

The question then is how do you accurately replicate the real life struggles of management without making the game boring?

This season Liverpool are struggling due to the number of injuries, low morale, and inexplicable drops in key players form. All of which are difficult to implement in the game without frustrating the player. Injuries and inconsistent form are largely out of the players hands, so increasing this leads to complaints about the game "cheating" or being "FM'd". I think SIGames have previously said injury frequency is lower than real life for this reason. 

Morale management and squad unity is more interesting as to a certain extent its the biggest factor to real life success. Inspiring players and keeping the dressing room on side will ultimately make or break the success of a manager's reign. This is the area with the most scope for improvement in the series, but given this is largely dependent on human interactions the game will always struggle to replicate this in a satisfying way.

The player interactions just feel robotic and somewhat arbitrary, to the point I more or less ignore the function entirely as you're likely to create more issues than it's worth. Similarly with team talks and in-game shouts.  But again without huge advancements in AI, I have no idea on what the game can do to address this in and entertaining way. Would love to know what other people think would be an improvement, and if there are any other game examples that could be co-opted. How can you simulate charisma? Maybe introduce more RPG elements? Not sure. 

 

For me, off the top off my head, I'd be happy if there was a setting (or mod) that added +1 (or +2) onto every opponent player's attributes (and maybe + 5/10 onto condition) when I played them as a quick-fix to compensate for all the stuff I can do better than the AI.

Most players never need to touch that setting.  

[dannysheard]

16 minutes ago, sthptngomad76 said:

I’ve been Wealdstone and Progresul Spartac, felt the same thing as OP. Haven’t tweaked my corners. 
I think we all want the same thing ultimately- an enjoyable, engaging, addictive game.

There’s just a sizeable proportion of this fanbase that isn’t feeling this at the moment that really only would be solved with scaleable difficulty levels. 

 

But unfortuantely we're held back by the not-very-good players who insist the game is plenty hard enough, thank you very much, and just say we're cheating or playing with too-good teams.

 

[dannyfc]

1 minute ago, dannysheard said:

For me, off the top off my head, I'd be happy if there was a setting (or mod) that added +1 (or +2) onto every opponent player's attributes (and maybe + 5/10 onto condition) when I played them as a quick-fix to compensate for all the stuff I can do better than the AI.

Most players never need to touch that setting.  

I think some of the third-party save game editors (FMRTE/FM Scout) can do this relatively easily. There's mass edit functions that allow you to boost all a squad's players to 100% condition and happiness. You can also edit attributes, but not sure how easy that is to do on mass. 

 

[Dotsworthy]

My two cents:

I think this is a problem not isolated to SI and applies to a number of current games. Go on forums for games like Civ Vi and CK3 and you'll find many like minded posts similar to these. The increasing complexity of these games, coupled with the unlimited amount of time a player has to make a decision and the instant decisions an AI has to make leads to the game being stacked in favour of the player.

That said, it is too easy to build a brains trust of staff that are all five stars in finding players, coaching them, and keeping them happy. You can also right out the gate make yourself a world class Pep or Conte in your first managerial job. Add star ratings for high potential players, and a number of forums that are hyper efficient at learning the exact best way to play, and it makes for a game that can absolutely get too easy if you let it.

This year, I am going to avoid reading anything on the tactics forum, and do some sort of attributeless/stat challenge with no star ratings. Personally, I would be fine with SI letting the AI add a bit of cheating if it adds challenge, but i get people are funny about that.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Dotsworthy

[Ferocious289]

6 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

The game should provide a challenge, whoever you play. Yes, it's much easier to compete as a good team but then the goalposts move in terms of what is considered success.

Nobody is saying that good teams shouldn't be able to win more matches than poor teams. You'd have to be an idiot to suggest that.

What we are saying is:

 - if you play as Utd who should be finishing around 4th-6th, it's actually very easy to win the league in the first season

 - if you play as Liverpool, who should win one or two league titles out of four and  maybe 1-in-10 Champions Leagues in real life, it's very easy to win every league title and most Champions Leagues

 - if you play as a non-league team, it's easy to win five, six, seven promotions in a row

You must get that?

The PSG argument is slightly disingenuous as they are a nation-state competing in a farmers' league so not like the Premier League. But if you managed PSG in the game, and won maybe 10 out of of 12 Champions Leagues, as would be pretty doable, that would demonstrate that the game is too easy. 

Serious question: do you think that > 50% of the people that buy the game (Liverpool, City, Utd, Barca fans etc.) should never play the game as their favourite team?

 

Just because a club is predicted to finish 4-6th doesn't mean there isn't a high possibility of overachieving. Have you seen the stats of Uniteds squad? Do you want them nerfed so they can be a mid-table team?

The media prediction does not and nor should it be a limit for how far you can take your team

For non-league clubs I've seen results like this on reddit, so clearly their not finding the game too easy

If people want to play as Liverpool city barca they should expect to have advantages over the majority of teams on the game

 

[dannysheard]

2 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

Just because a club is predicted to finish 4-6th doesn't mean there isn't a high possibility of overachieving. Have you seen the stats of Uniteds squad? Do you want them nerfed so they can be a mid-table team?

The media prediction does not and nor should it be a limit for how far you can take your team

For non-league clubs I've seen results like this on reddit, so clearly their not finding the game too easy

If people want to play as Liverpool city barca they should expect to have advantages over the majority of teams on the game

 

Do you even read the points people have made?

 - if you play as Liverpool, who should win one or two league titles out of four and  maybe 1-in-10 Champions Leagues in real life, it's very easy to win every league title and most Champions Leagues

Obviously Liverpool should win more matches than Villa, but they shouldn't be able to win the league every season.

If you don't find the game too easy, this isn't a discussion you need to be involved in.

[SergeiG]

8 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

This is something worth appreciating. Honestly, I don't think I would have the patience to play an easy game for 20 years.

 

4 hours ago, patpul said:

Maybe it's something like stockholm syndrome? Moaning that the game was to too easy in the past, but preorder the newest version.

For me it's not too easy, and I play for 25 years - from CM97/98. I have in this game everyting to make it harder. Even don't have to use any add-ons made by other players. I.e. if I want, I can use search player option, but don't have to. I can let to make everything to my DoF - so he will be buying any selling players to and from my team, I can be former football star and get the highest manager licence, but don't have to. There is so many opion to choose, so many ways to play this game and make it more challenging, that just depends on every single person, what will choose. IMO there is no need to introduce difficulty levels.

Finally - I don't have to buy the game before it is released, especially if I was disappointed before. I can wait for opinion of other players or check demo.

The thing is, I don't remember FM being so easy when I started playing. I think after 2019 or so the AI became extra stupid. Maybe I am wrong.

But one of my favorite teams to play with was Barnet, and I remember after getting to the championship after some years I was just stuck there for years, fighting relegation battles for like 3-4 years and another 5 to get to mid-table, so I don't think it's Stockholm syndrome. Nostalgia maybe?

And yeah, maybe the AI should get an advantage if it can't compete with the human player? Why not? CIV is doing it...it's not a perfect system for sure but if the AI is struggling VS human players they need some help.

Edited October 23, 2022 by SergeiG

[dannysheard]

6 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

Just because a club is predicted to finish 4-6th doesn't mean there isn't a high possibility of overachieving. Have you seen the stats of Uniteds squad? Do you want them nerfed so they can be a mid-table team?

The media prediction does not and nor should it be a limit for how far you can take your team

For non-league clubs I've seen results like this on reddit, so clearly their not finding the game too easy

If people want to play as Liverpool city barca they should expect to have advantages over the majority of teams on the game

 

'For non-league clubs I've seen results like this on reddit, so clearly their not finding the game too easy' --> oh, it's like some people are better at the game than others. Who knew?

Now, what does nearly every other game do when that happens?

[dannysheard]

3 minutes ago, SergeiG said:

 

The thing is, I don't remember FM being so easy when I started playing. I think after 2019 or so the AI became extra stupid. Maybe I am wrong.

But one of my favorite teams to play with was Barnet, and I remember after getting to the championship after some years I was just stuck there for years, fighting relegation battles for like 3-4 years and another 5 to get to mid-table, so I don't think it's Stockholm syndrome. Nostalgia maybe?

And yeah, maybe the AI should get an advantage if it can't compete with the human player? Why no? CIV is doing it...it's not a perfect system for sure but if the AI is struggling VS human players they need some help.

Yeah, I play Civ and the difficultly levels work absolutely fine (even though the players know it's just giving the AI an artificial boost).

Without the difficulty levels, Civ would be unplayable for competent players, as FM is becoming, really.

 

[Ferocious289]

3 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Do you even read the points people have made?

 - if you play as Liverpool, who should win one or two league titles out of four and  maybe 1-in-10 Champions Leagues in real life, it's very easy to win every league title and most Champions Leagues

Obviously Liverpool should win more matches than Villa, but they shouldn't be able to win the league every season.

If you don't find the game too easy, this isn't a discussion you need to be involved in.

It's a game, if you have the best players, buy the best players, use the best tactics, then no it's not a suprise if you win the league and CL every season.

It's a bit ridiculous for you to say if you don't find the game too easy then don't discuss, when you're adovacting something be done about an aspect of the game which I and other posters dont see need to be rendered.

[SergeiG]

BTW I think United is the perfect example for this thread to make my point.

This team been struggling for years, finishing as low as 6 or even 7 ten years ago. But I can take control of the team and with minimal effort win the treble in my first season.

[Ferocious289]

7 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

'For non-league clubs I've seen results like this on reddit, so clearly their not finding the game too easy' --> oh, it's like some people are better at the game than others. Who knew?

Now, what does nearly every other game do when that happens?

Why dont you try taking over the same club as that reddit guy and see if you can win 10 CL's in a row since you're so good at the game?

Edited October 23, 2022 by Ferocious289

[SergeiG]

3 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Yeah, I play Civ and the difficultly levels work absolutely fine (even though the players know it's just giving the AI an artificial boost).

Without the difficulty levels, Civ would be unplayable for competent players, as FM is becoming, really.

 

Yeah, Maybe it could be a setting to tick on or off to let the AI have extra money, or no attribute masking etc.

[Harrymcintyre]

If genegerpress is too OP, then maybe try to win using different tactics. I am actively experimenting a lot these 2 weeks with what kinda works and what doesn’t with tactics that isn’t just gengerpressing. 

[dannysheard]

6 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

It's a game, if you have the best players, buy the best players, use the best tactics, then no it's not a suprise if you win the league and CL every season.

It's a bit ridiculous for you to say if you don't find the game too easy then don't discuss, when you're adovacting something be done about an aspect of the game which I and other posters dont see need to be rendered.

I go back to my earlier point. Your argument is like kids in the lower maths set at school saying there's absolutely no need for a higher maths set as they already find the basic maths hard enough. Some of us just found maths easy, man. Doesn't make us better human beings, we just find it easy and would like an appropriate challenge.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by dannysheard