4231 not 4231 DM AM Wide

[Alveuel]

 

4231 is now broken due to this change as the game will spam "too much space between the lines" unless you play with a DM...

FYI, Arsenal play a 4231 Wide with 2 CMs, I repeat, 2 CMs, not DMs...  So perhaps removing a tactical possibility from the game which is played by the best team(top of the table) in the hardest league isn't a good idea.  I mean as much as we want to fit Mason Mount onto the field and all.  Xhaka should be able to play box to box along side Partey playing BWM or DLP just like he does in the PL each weekend without "allowing too much space".

I don't understand why SI would want to focus the game and model tactics of negative teams.  It's like Conte and Jose Mourinho are the new spirit animals for this game.  FM 23 just feels so broken now, and feels like it was made for LLMs to play negative counter attacking football all the time.

Just from the perspective of people play football to score goals...  Why make the game more defensive?  Like do people want to watch FM 23 simulate a 433 vs 523 0 - 0 draw with 2 shots to each side?

This game could of been so much better.

 

[andu1]

2 hours ago, Alveuel said:

 

4231 is now broken due to this change as the game will spam "too much space between the lines" unless you play with a DM...

FYI, Arsenal play a 4231 Wide with 2 CMs, I repeat, 2 CMs, not DMs...  So perhaps removing a tactical possibility from the game which is played by the best team(top of the table) in the hardest league isn't a good idea.  I mean as much as we want to fit Mason Mount onto the field and all.  Xhaka should be able to play box to box along side Partey playing BWM or DLP just like he does in the PL each weekend without "allowing too much space".

I don't understand why SI would want to focus the game and model tactics of negative teams.  It's like Conte and Jose Mourinho are the new spirit animals for this game.  FM 23 just feels so broken now, and feels like it was made for LLMs to play negative counter attacking football all the time.

Just from the perspective of people play football to score goals...  Why make the game more defensive?  Like do people want to watch FM 23 simulate a 433 vs 523 0 - 0 draw with 2 shots to each side?

This game could of been so much better.

 

Sorry but 4-2-3-1 Wide with 2 central midfielders that are not DM's is not realistic and never has been. Besides you can use Xhaka in a segundo volante role and he will do the same as a box to box in CM position.

 

[fc.cadoni]

Excuse me, but 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM is more realistic than 2 CM. Example is Alan Pardew in my team where use the DM strata exclusively, only one match had to play an AMRL player in CM due to injuries of players which can play there. As andu1 said Segundo Volante act like BBM in DM strata and if you use CM position, then will drop deeper from previous versions.

[Alveuel]

19 hours ago, andu1 said:

Sorry but 4-2-3-1 Wide with 2 central midfielders that are not DM's is not realistic and never has been. Besides you can use Xhaka in a segundo volante role and he will do the same as a box to box in CM position.

 

Arsene Wenger played Santi Cazorla in CM in his 4231...  You're telling me that Santi Cazorla was a DM? lol...  Deluded.

Thomas Rosicky, Cesc Fabregas, Ljundberg, Aaron Ramsey, Jack Wilshere...  AMC/CM players have played for Arsenal for decades...  Nobody is putting those players at DM.  It's unrealistic and has broken the game for me.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Alveuel

[Alveuel]

18 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

Excuse me, but 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM is more realistic than 2 CM. Example is Alan Pardew in my team where use the DM strata exclusively, only one match had to play an AMRL player in CM due to injuries of players which can play there. As andu1 said Segundo Volante act like BBM in DM strata and if you use CM position, then will drop deeper from previous versions.

Santi Cazorla isn't a Segundo Volante...  The new version of the tactic is defensive and makes the game defense first which isn't the tactic of arguably one of the best teams in world football at the moment.

Looking at Man City who sometimes play 4231, they don't have KDB playing at DM...  While Rodri might sit deeper, he's taking shots from the edge of the box constantly.  And obviously Bernardo Silva is playing more of a 10 role when they are in the 4231.  So maybe Rodri is a DM, but KDB isn't a DM and nor is Silva...  The idea that this is "normal" just isn't true.  It's the game forcing us to do something because the engine doesn't properly work for a true 4231.  Even the game developers admitted that and said as much with their comments.  The AI picked 4231 tactics and stuck attacking players in CM when the game thought it should have more defensive players in those positions.  But that's not always the case.  Man City's 433 for instance will invert FBs and push into midfield next to a deeper Rodri to make a 2 CB, 3 DM, 4 AM (2 inverted wingers with 2 CMs that push into attack to create double pivot higher up the field generally 1 for each side to overload using width for penetration or byline cross), 1 Striker formation.

 

If the tactic must be this way, then they need to divide tactics for in possession and out of possession.  Obviously it's hard to see the Man City or Arsenal tactic unless you watch teams at that level a lot and understand their play style.  But Arsene Wenger used an attacking 4231 for decades, to his ultimate demise perhaps.  But that's football, you should have a choice.  Not have the choice taken away from you. (FM 16,17,18,19,20,21,22 all have the choice, why are we going backwards?)

 

Add 4231 Wide back to the game.  Allow for the AI to pick 4231 DM Wide, and let us play the game.  The irony is because the AI was choosing this tactic too much and putting attacking players into roles that devs wanted to see more defensive players proves that even the AI wants to see more goals and this defensive tactical style to the gameplay ruins said gameplay.

[luka_zg]

What are you talkking about? I0ve scored 100 goals playing 4231 with two DM's. Defensive? Don't think so.

[DrIgz]

Am I missing something or are you now not able to play 4-2-3-1 with 2 CMs?

I mean, I know it's not a pre-set tactic, but you can make whatever tactic you want, right? Nobody is taking that choice away (unless I'm missing something) Ignore the bloody assistant telling you about spaces between lines, he'll hardly tell you anything that useful anyway.

[GOODNAME]

On 13/11/2022 at 11:17, fc.cadoni said:

Excuse me, but 4-2-3-1 with 2 DM is more realistic than 2 CM. Example is Alan Pardew in my team where use the DM strata exclusively, only one match had to play an AMRL player in CM due to injuries of players which can play there. As andu1 said Segundo Volante act like BBM in DM strata and if you use CM position, then will drop deeper from previous versions.

Its not

the 2 DM's never cross the half line

 

[themadsheep2001]

16 minutes ago, DrIgz said:

Am I missing something or are you now not able to play 4-2-3-1 with 2 CMs?

I mean, I know it's not a pre-set tactic, but you can make whatever tactic you want, right? Nobody is taking that choice away (unless I'm missing something) Ignore the bloody assistant telling you about spaces between lines, he'll hardly tell you anything that useful anyway.

You can use both formations, not sure what the OP is getting at tbh

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

Its not

the 2 DM's never cross the half line

 

In FM? That's just not true 

[Jack Joyce]

'Positions' don't really mean as much to coaches as they do to the general public - how a player actually moves and positions during different phases of play is more determined by their role and is much more important to how someone plays.

A DM position isn't necessarily defensive, roles such as Segundo Volante and Roaming Playmaker are operating in the AM strata when your team attacks the opposition half, they're not holding roles.

For example:

• Santi Cazorla operated in a double-pivot alongside Coquelin in either a DLP or RP role. Positionally they're looking to receive the ball off the CBs in a deep position i.e. they're starting as a DM.
• Xhaka - Depending on your preference he's either playing a RP role at DM or as a roaming 8 in a 433.
• Man City - Typically play a 433, not a 4231. Walker tends to move into DM during the build-up phase alongside Rodri to form a double-pivot shape (similar to Zinchenko at Arsenal).

5 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

Its not

the 2 DM's never cross the half line

 

They absolutely can and do if you watch the highlights.

[Chetsfmfan]

A regular 4231 with a much higher line squeezing the space to compensate for the ‘space between the lines’ has been working extremely well for me?

[Butters76]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You can use both formations, not sure what the OP is getting at tbh

 

But the game will be spamming you with messages of "you need to close the gap between defence and midfield" if you play with 2 CM's like we did in FM2022.

[HoChiKim]

I play a 4231 with two CM's but I haven't noticed this yet, I'll keep an eye out.

[ElJuanvito]

hace 14 horas, Alveuel dijo:

While Rodri might sit deeper, he's taking shots from the edge of the box constantly.

 

My Defensive Mids in support duty do that all the time in my tactic.

[Dronx]

I play for a standard not preset 4231 with a dlp support & BWM defend and seems to be ok. I know what you mean about the constant assistant messages of too much space, I just ignore him as doing ok in my league. 

[xSEARLEYx]

I've been playing 2 CM's in this formation with BWM & DLP both on defend. Should I perhaps drop them to DM and change one to support?

[andu1]

20 minutes ago, xSEARLEYx said:

I've been playing 2 CM's in this formation with BWM & DLP both on defend. Should I perhaps drop them to DM and change one to support?

Just play whatever works for you and don't bother with the assistant