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"Rule Group has empty discipline rules"


MRC
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Hey everyone!
As far as I saw a while back this warning is already known to some, so perhaps you could help me out.

I did put a lot of time into making my very own custom European Super League (in place of the German League system) last year and I wanted to migrate the file into FM23.

As you do, I loaded it up in the editor, checked for errors (which was basically just too many or to few teams in some other leagues, fixed that real quick) and once the file was without errors, I saved it and tried to create a savefile with it.

I was then greated by a window that said:
"warnings-and-errors

Warning: Rule group as empty discipline rules

recalloc(0)"

So back into the file I went, and at first I realised that I had no rules for yellow card bans (like after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th yellow-card ban). So at first I tried to stay very basic and just change that in the basic rules without fully going into advanced then.

If I remember correctly, right after that, I did not get the error message just once. However, thereafter and without any other changes, I am now getting a slightly different one that says:

"warnings-and-errors

Warning: Rule group has empty discipline rules"

After I click either "ok" or x 7 times, that window vanishes and it seems that the game starts. However, I haven't tested whether it runs alright, and I would very much prefer to fix this before I run into a gamebreaking error a couple of months in.

I did go into the advanced discipline rules after that but didn't manage to fix it, so the .xml file I'm posting is gonna be the one prior to me going there.

Any help & any fixes are much appreciated!

 

MRCX - European Superleague.xml

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Hey MRC! I think this has been a common problem with editor files - you can find a thread about it in the Bugs thread: 

SI is working on a fix, but it doesn't seem like there is one coming soon. I had a similar issue with my US database - I can't get it to verify in advanced mode because of the empty discipline rules issue (and manually re-adding the rules doesn't fix the problem), so I've had to use it in basic mode. I'd suggest loading up your file with the minimum number of leagues you need to have, create an unemployed coach, set your autosave to half an hour and then go on vacation and let it run overnight to see if it crashes to desktop anywhere. That may help you see if it's stable - the empty discipline rule hasn't caused a CTD for my database so far.

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Thank you for your answer. I can actually get it to verify but simulation showed that my concern came true. The game crashes after a few months of simulating. Precisely what I feared, meaning that the database is essentially useless until they come out with a fix.

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Had the same problem and after some tests I traced it back to the reserve teams in the database, for me it was caused by the deletion of them. Interestingly this was only a problem for reserve teams I removed after creating some Nation Rules, so maybe there is a workaround by doing this first. Hope this can help you with this problem in some way.

Edited by V2023
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Thank you, I'm grateful for any hint that could possibly work without me having to do everything from scratch. It's funny because I got it to verify without issue every time.

For the reserve leagues, I just used a "use teams from division" approach - but I have now tried filling in the discipline rules index, which was disengaged for all U19 and reserves from my Super League. Let's see if that does anything. Otherwise I'll probably have to check the teams one by one and look at their reserves, whether they are where they should be or whether getting the file from last year has caused any issues or double-ups.

Edit: Okay so that approach didn't work out, seemingly changed nothing

Edited by MRC
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I think it has nothing to do with the rules themselves but rather with reserve teams that already exist being deleted, so it's a database issue rather than a rule issue (even though the name suggest otherwise).

I'm doing some tests with my file whether it is specifically the clear command or if it is a problem with deleting reserve teams in general.

 

Edit: It appears to be a problem with deleting them in general

Edited by V2023
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I see!

I checked and actually found that only 2 teams out of the like 160 or 180 I have in the league system had an "existing" reserve team with one more team having one set to be created in England - so no matter how you look at it, that was a mistake. 

So now I'm contemplating how I actually attack the reserves and under-19s, perhaps that will help with the problem as well.

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I have a theory, since in my file not all reserve deletions are problem. I think you have to delete these existing reserve teams before you make any change to the club or the leagues it's playing in, and it's only about the ones in the reserve teams part, not the reserve teams to create part.

So what might work, if this theory is right, is deleting these reserve teams in a separate database and then combining this small file with all the other changes you've made (of course, any change that deletes these teams has to be removed from the file with the other changes).

I'm testing this myself currently, but it might take some time since I can't do it that easily with my file, though the idea stays the same. I'll update my post when I found out whether it works or not.

Edited by V2023
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Uff, if I'm understanding that correctly I actually hope it's not true - going back to reinstating all the reserve & youth teams I deleted just to then make a new database where I delete all of those teams and then merge them - that might be the point where I just make the database again from scratch.

Then again, if you manage to confirm this, at the very least we'll have the knowledge that this is actually responsible for issues.

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I don't think you have to redo everything, you can scroll through the database change list (quite fast thanks to arrow keys) and if "reserve teams - cleared list" or "reserve teams - deleted entry" (the "reserve teams to create" part shouldn't matter) appears, you remove that change. Still might take a while, but it should be faster than redoing everything from scratch. Otherwise you can also sort the changes by ID and just look through the clubs for this entry, the number shouldn't be that big.

It will take a while until I can give confirmation, I really underestimated how many database changes (ca. 95k) I have to delete to able to use an older file as base, where some changes had already been made. So, It'll probably take until tomorrow for me to be able to confirm whether it works or not.

Edited by V2023
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So, it took some time but it works!

I can't say with complete certainty what change to the clubs forbids removing existing reserve teams, but I think it is the change to one of the three nation entries to the club. (not sure which one exactly)

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I see! I have actually started making the database from scratch now and I'm careful to delete the reserves before moving the team, so that should in theory work out.

I'll let you know once I'm done although that might take a while, seeing how I'm the kind of person that also looks to improve when doing the same task from scratch again.

Thank you for the effort you put in!

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On 01/12/2022 at 07:57, V2023 said:

So, it took some time but it works!

I can't say with complete certainty what change to the clubs forbids removing existing reserve teams, but I think it is the change to one of the three nation entries to the club. (not sure which one exactly)

Would you be able to share your DB with me as I'm curious as to what you did to get this to work. Either it's not working for me or you did something different than me. 

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Got the same error message while trying to activate league system of Bosnia & Herzegovina.

At the start, I made the basic rules in Basic editor and it worked well, with no problems. After that I converted the file to Advanced editor. With advanced rules the verification in editor went through without any problems. But, in the game, the same "Rule Group has empty discipline rules" error.

Of course, I can create the game and play the first season. But after the first season I get crash dump and there's no way to get into second season.

There are problems with Discipline rules.

Here are the rules with the advanced rules (the file with a problem)

20221207182007_1.thumb.jpg.1e5453214079be1952389d270a5f1ba9.jpg

And here are the rules with basic rules only (that file is working)

20221207182227_1.thumb.jpg.c575497a0ad325cf700a0c5eac5ee64c.jpg

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  • 3 months later...
On 01/12/2022 at 14:57, V2023 said:

So, it took some time but it works!

I can't say with complete certainty what change to the clubs forbids removing existing reserve teams, but I think it is the change to one of the three nation entries to the club. (not sure which one exactly)

Hi mate,

Has this worked for you long term?

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On 28/03/2023 at 13:11, Slyfiskmand said:

Hi mate,

Has this worked for you long term?

I never had that problem afterwards, so yeah, for my file this worked long term

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On 02/04/2023 at 17:17, V2023 said:

I never had that problem afterwards, so yeah, for my file this worked long term

Thank you.

Just to clarify, you deleted every reserve team in a separate database and then you merged it with your current database?

How did you delete the reserve teams? Because under clubs I cannot find an options that filters clubs by type.

Thanks bud.

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vor 21 Stunden schrieb Slyfiskmand:

Thank you.

Just to clarify, you deleted every reserve team in a separate database and then you merged it with your current database?

How did you delete the reserve teams? Because under clubs I cannot find an options that filters clubs by type.

Thanks bud.

You open up your list of clubs to edit, navigate to reserve team and then delete them one by one. Unfortunately it is not possible to mass-delete them for the most part. Because if you've ticked clubs to mass edit, only the stuff they have in common shows up, meaning if you mass-edit 50 clubs, 49 of them have a reserve team and one doesn't, none will show up. I'm not sure if this can be circumvented by first adding a reserve team and then go on to clear the file, you'd have to try that. 
Otherwise it's just: Tick one club -> Reserve Teams -> Clear -> Untick Club -> Tick another club -> Reserve Teams and so on

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On 06/04/2023 at 14:09, Slyfiskmand said:

Thank you.

Just to clarify, you deleted every reserve team in a separate database and then you merged it with your current database?

How did you delete the reserve teams? Because under clubs I cannot find an options that filters clubs by type.

Thanks bud.

Yes, to solve this I removed these changes (the deleted reserve teams) in the original database, deleted the reserve teams in a separate one and then merged the remaining original database.

To delete them, as MRC pointed out, it's necessary that every team you're mass editing has the same type of reserve team. Depending on the nation you're editing you can select every club in the nation, add a reserve team and then clear the reserve team list. This only works though if none of the clubs you're editing already has two reserve teams, since then it doesn't seem to work, else you'll have to do it as MRC said:

13 hours ago, MRC said:

Tick one club -> Reserve Teams -> Clear -> Untick Club -> Tick another club -> Reserve Teams and so on

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So, just in case anyone else has this issue again.
I did a bit of testing because I encountered it again after the recent update in one of the databases I'm working on and I think I managed to pinpoint it.

Deleting the reserve/youth teams before or after doesn't seem to matter that much. (but, as I'll explain below, it does matter to some extent)

Essentially, what seems to cause this is B teams remaining in other leagues.
 

This was especially prevalent with South African teams. The thing is - even if you delete their reserve team via Edit -> Reserve Teams -> Clear, the team in the database isn't (necessarily) deleted and still has to be deleted manually.
This can be a bit tedious at times if the team has a different name to the parent team.
For example, the reserve/developmental club of "Orlando Pirates F.C." is called "Yebo Yes United F.C.".


This means if you change the nation for Orlando Pirates FC, the nation for Yebo Yes United will also be changed. If you delete the connection between them via "Edit -> Reserve Teams -> Clear", Yebo Yes United will keep that new nation, though.

Now if they remain in the fourth tier of South Africa but have a wrong nation set, this error comes up while loading the game. This is also supported by the fact that the error message pops up once for ever club this applies to. In my testing, 6 former reserve clubs had another nation set but remained in their original league system - and I got the error message 6 times.

My guess is that the reason why deleting all clubs - or rather "links" to those clubs - before changing the information of the parent club worked as a fix is that the severed link caused the nation of the former reserve team to NOT be changed.

 

If you have that issue, probably the easiest way to fix it is this:

- Go to "Clubs"

- Search for clubs from the nation you created

- Sort them by division

- Look for clubs with your nation that are not in any divisions of that country but in a division of another country

- Delete those clubs (depending on the league you may need to replace them) or change their nation so it aligns with the nation of their respective division again. (For all those South African clubs in the fourth league, deleting them worked just fine and didn't cause any issues)

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