Local regions and their function

[themodelcitizen]

I know that the local region a player is "based in" (including their last club if they're unemployed) affects which clubs that players at lower levels will consider offers from, before they either broaden their horizons or retire after a given amount of time.

Do local regions do anything else (other than serving a role in some cup draws)? Is "population" relevant? Some countries have that filled out, others (like Switzerland) have left it blank. I figure a "city"'s population range is far more relevant to newgens, attendances etc? Does the game add any spice to games between teams from the same local region (like the news item for city derbies)?

As an aside, there's an "extinct" ("EXT") Austrian local region if anyone needs it for editing projects, always tricky trying to find a spare one

[Fredrik]

You can re-use plenty of African or Asian local regions if you don't plan to play there. This idea depends on the local regions not doing much more than you already found. 

Local regions are somewhat helpful if you want to sort data or for example create regional divisions just as with your cup example. I don't see them serving much more purpose.

My (impossible) pet project has for a long time been to better set various languages, names etc to better reflect real life. Local regions seem to do very little there even when it's supposedly a factor that regen names are using. 

 

[EnigMattic1]

10 minutes ago, Fredrik said:

You can re-use plenty of African or Asian local regions if you don't plan to play there. This idea depends on the local regions not doing much more than you already found. 

Local regions are somewhat helpful if you want to sort data or for example create regional divisions just as with your cup example. I don't see them serving much more purpose.

My (impossible) pet project has for a long time been to better set various languages, names etc to better reflect real life. Local regions seem to do very little there even when it's supposedly a factor that regen names are using. 

 

I still want the option to add other nationalities within a region to increase the probability of dual national newgens. I know there is a workaround for that, but it is a lot of work if the local region is very diverse.

[Wolf_pd]

4 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

I know that the local region a player is "based in" (including their last club if they're unemployed) affects which clubs that players at lower levels will consider offers from, before they either broaden their horizons or retire after a given amount of time.

Do local regions do anything else (other than serving a role in some cup draws)? Is "population" relevant? Some countries have that filled out, others (like Switzerland) have left it blank. I figure a "city"'s population range is far more relevant to newgens, attendances etc? Does the game add any spice to games between teams from the same local region (like the news item for city derbies)?

As an aside, there's an "extinct" ("EXT") Austrian local region if anyone needs it for editing projects, always tricky trying to find a spare one

Local regions are used for names. You can find that out by isolating a local regions and see what names turn up. I know that it at least applies to some of the North African countries, probably the areas where Tamazight is more common than Arabic.

Local regions for me are mostly as Fredrik says, making it easier to sort, for instance when setting regional divisions and such.

[rusty217]

They affect player names, nationalities, ethnicities & languages too.

I'm glad they exist for the cup draws mainly though. I've got a Celtic Cup competition and it's great being able to draw the best teams from Brittany each year, rather than having to pick a specific team or all teams in France or something, to participate. Unfortunately there's not a local region for Cornwall so setting it up to draw the top Cornish team took a lot more effort than getting the top Breton team.

[Fredrik]

5 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Local regions are used for names. You can find that out by isolating a local regions and see what names turn up. I know that it at least applies to some of the North African countries, probably the areas where Tamazight is more common than Arabic.

 

 

2 hours ago, rusty217 said:

They affect player names, nationalities, ethnicities & languages too.

 

I don't dispute that they are a factor but I'm not sure to what extent. 

 

Case in point. I have done quite a bit of editing for Namibia. Data is sometimes hard to come by but in my own world I am happy to set city of birth to be where first club is unless I know something else. 

 

I have made sure everyone has a city of birth. Some names only exist in certain local regions but still show up in players from other regions when I start a new game. Additionally I see a couple of names that only Northern European players have being used by other ethnicities. And white players with obviously Black African names. Thanks to the fact that a lot of the black players have european first names it doesn't always look so bad. Namibia also has a sizable Mixed Race group but they don't seem to appear among the created players. 

 

I should probably create a separate thread for all these questions for people to chime in. 

 

[MRC]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb themodelcitizen:

As an aside, there's an "extinct" ("EXT") Austrian local region if anyone needs it for editing projects, always tricky trying to find a spare one

Wait a minute, we have an "extinct" region? Which one?

[Wolf_pd]

1 hour ago, MRC said:

Wait a minute, we have an "extinct" region? Which one?

It happens when local regions are changed and not directly removed. It happened with French local regions a few years back when the French government reorganized them. I think the Austrian researchers in this case made smaller local regions for easier use in setting competitions.

[alian62]

5 hours ago, MRC said:

Wait a minute, we have an "extinct" region? Which one?

Russia

[rusty217]

4 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

It happens when local regions are changed and not directly removed. It happened with French local regions a few years back when the French government reorganized them. I think the Austrian researchers in this case made smaller local regions for easier use in setting competitions.

Out of interest, do you know how researchers decide on the regions?

I remember from trying to make state leagues that China was much easier than India since China uses its provinces as local regions, but India uses large geographic areas rather than its states.

[themodelcitizen]

11 hours ago, MRC said:

Wait a minute, we have an "extinct" region? Which one?

It's not "extinct" per se other than it has "EXT" in the name and no cities assigned to it.

I repurposed it to be a wider San Marino local region (under a new nation) to allow the non-EU players rule and fix that bug for countries not already in EU (i.e. San Marino).

Sammarinese cities do not have a default local region, so I put them in this new one (the old Austrian one which now has the "nation" of my secondary Sammarinese nationality).

I did not change the language, which was blank, so newgens still look pretty Italian (edit: actually they seem a bit random unless you change stuff like language, and the "region" of the nation that the "local region" is in). Was just wondering what other knock-on effects this might have.

Edited December 17, 2022 by themodelcitizen

[MRC]

Ok so the answer is Wien-Umgebung it seems!

[themodelcitizen]

Bezirk Wien-Umgebung I think, yeah. Haven't had any issues with it so far. @Fredrik this was all to recreate the Arab rule in Qatar, using the city/region trick to make all Qataris have dual nationality to get around that EU players bug

[themodelcitizen]

Was also wondering how the game handled the Serbian teams who play in North Mitrovica (Kosovo, at least recognized by the west and FIFA), figuring they might have nation set to Kosovo but get around the Albanian name issue by having a special "local region."

Instead, SI has basically gone with the Serbian position, lol, and doesn't recognize the area as Kosovo, naming the wider region CSMKM (last part must be Kosovo and Metohija) to save the extra work

[rusty217]

2 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Was also wondering how the game handled the Serbian teams who play in North Mitrovica (Kosovo, at least recognized by the west and FIFA), figuring they might have nation set to Kosovo but get around the Albanian name issue by having a special "local region."

Instead, SI has basically gone with the Serbian position, lol, and doesn't recognize the area as Kosovo, naming the wider region CSMKM (last part must be Kosovo and Metohija) to save the extra work

There's not really any alternative though. They have to have nation set as Serbia if they play in the Serbian leagues, the game won't accept anything else. Swansea/Cardiff have their nation set to England for the same reason. The continental cup nation has to be Serbia too if they're in the Serbian league system, otherwise they'd effectively be unable to qualify for continental competitions which I doubt is the case IRL. Based nation is the only one that could be set to Kosovo, but then they'd generate Kosovan newgens and I guess if they see themselves as a Serbian team that would be inaccurate?

[themodelcitizen]

Ahhh yes I should have said based nation, forgot which one was relevant there (same for the Canadian teams in MLS). But yeah, just leaving them Serbian takes care of newgens and such. The region is in Kosovo but essentially governed by an autonomous entity propped up and claimed by Serbia (Krasic who was at Juve is from there). If the Community of Serb Municipalities ever gets official recognition in Kosovo they could somehow include them as a Kosovar region with Serb primary nationality and Serb regens

[Fredrik]

To be fair I have sometimes thought that the reason SI is keeping some of this stuff hidden is due to various political problems. Even in EU countries that were never part of the Warsaw Pact or Yugoslavia it's sometimes very controversial to acknowledge minority languages or groups. I'm not talking about immigrants from Turkey or Morocco either. I'm talking about the native groups. 

Sometimes you have to choose what to do and you may want to keep some of this away from eyes.

 

[Wolf_pd]

On 17/12/2022 at 01:26, rusty217 said:

Out of interest, do you know how researchers decide on the regions?

I remember from trying to make state leagues that China was much easier than India since China uses its provinces as local regions, but India uses large geographic areas rather than its states.

I know local regions are based on the nations administrative divisions where the researcher will pick a level. The India researcher might have picked the highest NUTS level. NUTS is a statistical division for administrative division. For the Netherlands, after seeing Austria changing there was discussion changing as well to the Dutch football districts to help lower levels football.

In many cases it is also a matter of how detailed the nation is in terms of teams and cities. China has a lot of those, India a lot less iirc.

[Wolf_pd]

6 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

Was also wondering how the game handled the Serbian teams who play in North Mitrovica (Kosovo, at least recognized by the west and FIFA), figuring they might have nation set to Kosovo but get around the Albanian name issue by having a special "local region."

Instead, SI has basically gone with the Serbian position, lol, and doesn't recognize the area as Kosovo, naming the wider region CSMKM (last part must be Kosovo and Metohija) to save the extra work

We looked at that for the Iron Curtain. There are actually multiple versions of Mitrovica in the database. One assigned to Serbia, one assigned to Kosovo.

So it probably has been solved that way. Local region names are probably not set by SI, but by researchers, which then depends on how the area is called in their nation. If the researcher is Serbian, then that local region name probably checks out.

[themodelcitizen]

4 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

We looked at that for the Iron Curtain. There are actually multiple versions of Mitrovica in the database. One assigned to Serbia, one assigned to Kosovo.

So it probably has been solved that way. Local region names are probably not set by SI, but by researchers, which then depends on how the area is called in their nation. If the researcher is Serbian, then that local region name probably checks out.

Interesting, each could correspond to one side of the river anyway. The local region is a combination of an existing one and the partially-recognized K&M, going by the existing convention it doesn't make sense to combine them (political subdivision = region like in US, Italy etc) but giving K&M its own Serb local region might have been avoided by design due to the political issues. Fascinating part of the world, the locals routinely set up roadblocks to keep Kosovar authorities from coming in and exerting influence

[Wolf_pd]

Another one I forgot to mention is that local regions can decide for newgen creation. An example of this is the use of the French area for Pays Basque North. It doesn’t have any cities in it anymore, but if you move for instance Biarritz there you will notice French Basque newgens.

[Gregisawesome13]

4 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Another one I forgot to mention is that local regions can decide for newgen creation. An example of this is the use of the French area for Pays Basque North. It doesn’t have any cities in it anymore, but if you move for instance Biarritz there you will notice French Basque newgens.

This was true on the versions prior to FM22, However, now it seems to correctly generate french basque regens without any movement of regions or adding the region to the pays basque nation.