Impérial League

[Samuel77]

This project consists in making a league modelled on the First Empire (Conquests under Napoleon) stopping at the year 1812-1813.
In this topic I will post my questions in order to avoid polluting others (I will try to at least) as well as my progress.

Not everything will be accurate to the millimetre.
And there are no geopolitical ideas behind it, I just find it an interesting challenge.

The Empire spread over several countries:

• France
• Belgium
• Holland
• Luxembourg
• Italy: Valle d'Aosta, Piemonte, Liguria, Toscana, Umbria, Lazio.
• Spain: Cataluña.
• Germany: Hamburg, Bremen, Niederscachsen, Nordrhein Westfal, Saarland, Schleswig Holstein.
• Switzerland: Neuchâtel, Geneva, Valais.

There were also autonomous provinces:

• The Kingdom of Italy (Northern Italy)
• The Kingdom of Naples (Southern Italy)
• The Confederation of the Rhine (Germany)
• The Helvetic Confederation
• The Kingdom of Spain
• Illyrian Provinces (Croatia, Slovenia, etc.)
• The Duchy of Warsaw

I reserve these last two for a Balkan League and a Central European League.
Here is a map for more readability.

 

 

For the moment the most complicated part was to distribute the German cities in different regions because by the Niederscachsen and the Nordrhein Westfal these regions straddle Germany and France. I therefore created two additional regions which are Niedersachsen (FR) and Nordrhein-Westfalen (FR) and then placed the "French" cities in them in order to be able to distribute them in the right divisions.

I would like to use the Brazilian system, i.e. a big league with the teams of the Empire and a state championship by which one will qualify for the big league of the Empire.

There would be a first part of the season dedicated to the state championships which would be :

• The French championship grouping all the regions (Cataluña, Lazio, etc.)
• The Northern Italian championship (excluding the French regions)
• The Southern Italian championship (excluding the French regions)
• The Swiss league (excluding French regions)
• The German championship (excluding French regions)
• The Spanish league (excluding Cataluña)

And then a kind of Super League with all these teams in the second half of the season.
I am still hesitating whether to build this Super League using Continental Rules or to include it in Secondary Divisions.

 

 

At the moment I have not started building the leagues, I am already preparing the ground by placing the teams in the right divisions.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Samuel77

[Wolf_pd]

World building as in moving everything in the right position is the first thing to do with these big projects. It saves you a lot of heartache instead of when you would suddenly find yourself with a build competition and a team that ended up at the wrong side of the border.

Pro tip: take your time

[Samuel77]

Thanks for the advice @Wolf_pd
Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. I have just finished moving the Italian teams and their youth teams and organised the 4 levels of their championship.
I think I need to first prepare the "minor" leagues without even doing them in Basic Rules but to have all the structures ready (U17, U19, as well as the pyramids) once this is done I could start building them. Then I would look at the economic aspect and the transfer rules between the different countries)
Am I correct?

I have in mind the previous Iron Curtain as a construction model.

[Samuel77]

Normally Sicily and Sardinia would have their own championship but it would be very poor in terms of quality. Sardinia would have almost only one competitive team (at the beginning) and Sicily 2 or 3...
I have a doubt.

Maybe as England's allies with Portugal they could also have a league with these 3 countries?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Samuel77

[Wolf_pd]

Economics come in last as you need the game to be working and playing to properly judge that. You are moving the balance in a big way afterall.

How I worked for the most part (I have a particular way of working so don’t hesitate to do differently).

First check team numbers, so you have a basic idea of competition setups. As you say, Sicily and Sardinia are a bit bare. Consider reviving teams if that helps you (Italy does not have that many extinct teams I think).

Chexk if you can put the Kingdom of Naples together with Sardinia and Sicily. The Two Sicilies was called the Two Sicilies for a reason

[Samuel77]

Il y a 6 heures, Wolf_pd a dit :

Economics come in last as you need the game to be working and playing to properly judge that. You are moving the balance in a big way afterall.

 

You're right, it makes more sense 

 

Il y a 6 heures, Wolf_pd a dit :

First check team numbers, so you have a basic idea of competition setups. As you say, Sicily and Sardinia are a bit bare. Consider reviving teams if that helps you (Italy does not have that many extinct teams I think).

Chexk if you can put the Kingdom of Naples together with Sardinia and Sicily. The Two Sicilies was called the Two Sicilies for a reason

 

Indeed it would be more interesting and more balanced. Is it possible to create principality like Monaco without national team nor championship allowing to arrive simply a second nationality?
I should take a look at the Netherlands* that without doubt.

*EDIT: Basque Country (Spell Checker problem  )

Edited January 17, 2023 by Samuel77

[Wolf_pd]

I think activating Monaco will add a national team to it. A national competition isn't necessary though.

[Samuel77]

What do you mean ?

[Wolf_pd]

6 hours ago, Samuel77 said:

Is it possible to create principality like Monaco without national team nor championship allowing to arrive simply a second nationality?

You asked this question. You can create/unextinct Monaco so it is an active country, but it would mean there would be a national team. It would not need a national championship. If you only want to use it as a second nationality, you have to create a local region, assign it to Monaco and then move all cities you want second nationalities born to the Monaco local region.

[Samuel77]

Ok I understood that it was not necessary 
So this way I can have Sicilian and Sardinian Italians who won't risk being selected in Sicily or Sardinia?

Can I use an extinct nation for this ?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Samuel77

[Wolf_pd]

Yes, you can use an extinct nation for it. Just check that it doesn't suddenly turn up somewhere in the history section. But by the time you are there, that's OK.

[Samuel77]

At the moment I am concentrating on the structure.
I have my plan for the provincial divisions.
I allow myself a few deviations from the initial plan, namely that the English teams of the South-East and South-West will integrate the provincial divisions as well as the main structure (without the PL clubs)

Your idea was good wolf, I integrated Sicilia to the Napoli League (Parthenopean League) I also added Corsica and Sardegna, it seemed coherent.
There is also a BeNe League.

I'll give more details when I find the names of each league (now that's a real headache!)

So here is a map where each colour corresponds to a provincial division :

[Samuel77]

After various reflections, I found it easier to move all the teams to one country in order to make the most of the secondary divisions.

Here is the distribution of the teams by "Regional Championships".

 

The Italian side will have 4 separate championships. There is the North, the South and two straddling Italy and France, for this I have recreated a region called Taro which includes part of Emmilia-Romagna.

Serie A (North Italia)

• Emilia-Romagna
• Friuli-Venezia Giulia
• Lombardia
• Marche
• Trentino-Alto Adige
• Veneto

 

Lega Pro (South Italia)

• Molise
• Puglia
• Abruzzo
• Basilicata
• Calabria
• Campania
• Scicilia
• Sardegna

 

Campionato Mediterraneo

• Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azure
• Liguria
• Toscana
• Umbria
• Lazio
• Corse

 

District Avergne-Rhône-Pô

• Avergne-Rhône-Alpes
• Valle d'Aoste
• Piemonte
• Taro (Ancient Italian region)

 

The Spanish part is for the moment divided into 4, one of which is Franco/Spanish. I am still hesitating to divide the Northern Spanish Championship in two.

District Sud Ouest

• Cataluña
• Nouvelle-Aquitaine
• Occitanie

 

Liga Española Norte (North Spain)

• Extremadura
• Baleares
• Canarias
• Castilla-La Mancha
• Ceuta
• Comunidad Valencina
• Melilla
• Murcia
• Aragon
• Asturias
• Cantabria
• Castilla y Leon
• Galicia
• La Rioja
• Madrid

 

Primera División Andaluza

• Andalucia Occidental
• Andalucia Oriental

 

Euskal Herriko Liga (Basque Country

• Pais Vasco
• Pays Basque Nord (France)
• Navarra

 

For Switzerland there will be two districts, one Franco/Swiss and one completely Swiss. For the latter I would use the Swiss championship by relocating it to France.

District N°4

• Bourgogne Franche-Comté
• Neuchâtel
• Genève
• Valais
• Jura

 

Here are two French/French Distict. With the Swiss ones, they will probably be among the weakest but they should be disputed because the level between the teams is relatively equal. Initially I had thought of including ckubs from the south of England to the Channel-Atlantic District but although fanciful I prefer to stick to a base and then I will see.

District Loire

• Centre-Val de Loire
• Pays de la Loire

 

District Manche-Atlantique

• Bretagne
• Normandie

 

For this district I decided to gather 3 French departments as well as the French speaking Belgian provinces. I have also divided the Grand-Est region in two, one of the two parts becoming Alsace-Lorraine which will be included in another District.

District Nord

• Grand-Est
• Haut-de-France
• Ile de France
• Bradant Wallon (FR)
• Brussels (FR)
• Hainaut (FR)
• Liège (FR)
• Luxembourg (FR)
• Namur (FR)

 

Below is the District including Alsace-Lorraine and several local German regions. Some of them are divided in two, a French part and a German part which will compete in the German District.

Liga Rheinbund (FR)

• Alsace-Lorraine
• Hamburg
• Bremen
• Niedersachsen
• Nordrhein Westfal
• RheinLand Pfalz
• SaarLand
• Schleswig-Holstein

 

For the latter I wanted a single BeNeLiga, but it turned out that there were too many teams. So I split it in two. The East and the West part, which are essentially the regions by the sea.

BeNeLiga Westelijk

• Flevoland
• Friesland
• Noord-Holland
• Vervoerregio Amsterdam
• Zeeland
• Zuid-Holland
• West-Vlaanderen
• West-Vlaanderen (Kust)

 

BeNeLiga Oostelijk

• Drenthe
• Gelderland
• Groningen
• Limburg (NL)
• Noord-Brabant
• Overijssel
• Utrecht
• Antwerpen
• Oost-Vlaaderen
• Limburg (B)
• Vlaams-Bradant
• East Cantons
• Brussels (D)

 

That leaves Luxembourg, which will also have its own championship.

 

 

In addition to this, there will be main divisions with the best teams of these countries on different levels. 6 levels seem reasonable.

If you have any concerns about the distribution of the Districts, please do not hesitate to give your subjections.

For the moment these regional championships have 3 levels, it seems to me that this is enough, maybe even two would do.
Looking at these championships, I have to say that I am eager to start building them to see how they work. What is also exciting is to see the variety of matches played in a season!
There will also be the continental competitions to redo and I was thinking of using the Regional Districts to qualify teams from the "Empire" and also give them more weight.
 

[Samuel77]

In what I'm trying to do, the further I go, the more I doubt that the format I've chosen is optimal...

Here are some thoughts I have:

1) The fact of gathering in one nation several other nations (or in part) forces me to rebuild all the youth divisions and for that we are obliged to do it team by team which represents an enormous time. Especially as each country is different, some have U18s, others U20s and so on.
2) The file is likely to be very heavy, that would make a nation with 10 000 clubs at least, probably more.
3) There are some clubs that would end up in the third division even though they are recognised clubs in their own nation and their name evokes something from their history.
4) The risk of having only clubs from one country in the first division.
The solution to this is simple in principle, simply regionalise the groups or assign certain countries to specific groups.
5) An overloaded calendar. For various reasons, including 1) and 2) I have established the first division with 2 groups quite similar to the MLS for a total of 26 games (not counting the playoffs) from January to June + about 15 games for the regional championships from August to December. That would be about 45 games and to that you have to add the national cups and the continental competitions.


So for these reasons,
A) I would rather keep each team in its own nation and therefore rebuild their championship so that it stops in December and takes the form of "state championships" but remains my basis on which teams qualify for the continental cups.
B) So either build the "Super League" using the secondary divisions, or build the Super League in Continental Rules. Neither of these two solutions fully suits me, they both have their benefits and drawbacks (we talked about this somewhere on the forum) but would simplify the construction of the project in many ways.
 

 

It's a bit painful after having already accomplished a lot but it's part of the process 

[Wolf_pd]

2 minutes ago, Samuel77 said:

In what I'm trying to do, the further I go, the more I doubt that the format I've chosen is optimal...

Here are some thoughts I have:

1) The fact of gathering in one nation several other nations (or in part) forces me to rebuild all the youth divisions and for that we are obliged to do it team by team which represents an enormous time. Especially as each country is different, some have U18s, others U20s and so on.
2) The file is likely to be very heavy, that would make a nation with 10 000 clubs at least, probably more.
3) There are some clubs that would end up in the third division even though they are recognised clubs in their own nation and their name evokes something from their history.
4) The risk of having only clubs from one country in the first division.
The solution to this is simple in principle, simply regionalise the groups or assign certain countries to specific groups.
5) An overloaded calendar. For various reasons, including 1) and 2) I have established the first division with 2 groups quite similar to the MLS for a total of 26 games (not counting the playoffs) from January to June + about 15 games for the regional championships from August to December. That would be about 45 games and to that you have to add the national cups and the continental competitions.


So for these reasons,
A) I would rather keep each team in its own nation and therefore rebuild their championship so that it stops in December and takes the form of "state championships" but remains my basis on which teams qualify for the continental cups.
B) So either build the "Super League" using the secondary divisions, or build the Super League in Continental Rules. Neither of these two solutions fully suits me, they both have their benefits and drawbacks (we talked about this somewhere on the forum) but would simplify the construction of the project in many ways.

It's a bit painful after having already accomplished a lot but it's part of the process 

It is indeed part of the process. Afterall, all history is revisionism.

[Samuel77]

Haha !

So I'm a bit stuck. I am finally almost back to the starting point, looking for the best way to proceed.