There will never be a Gianluigi Buffon in FM - why does SI kill/retire players?

[BrunoG39]

Buffon used to retire straight away from Juve on FM years ago. FM17 I think. My point is, FM will never allow any player to carry on playing until their late 30s, but never ever to 40+

FM wanted to retire Buffon when his contract ended at Juventus. IRL Gianluigi didn't, he wen't and played for PSG, back to Juve - now at Parma, he's 45.

Each rendition of FM has still had Buffon in, he's 45 playing Serie B for Parma (still high standard).

No matter the stats of a player, the FM will decide to kill your player. 

Why? 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by BrunoG39

[BrunoG39]

FM would be far greater if you could have a club legend play and play - like Maldini, Giggs, Buffon, Zanetti

FM kills and retires players far too quickly.

 

Why is one day their stats(CA) worthwhile, but suddenly their retired at 33.

[rp1966]

Buffon is an exceptional situation - SI's coding has to apply across the whole player base and is probably based on averages across all leagues.  There are only so many scenarios they can support. 

They have already significantly changed the way older players are handled and you now commonly find outfield players continuing  to around 37.  However, if you've read any of the issues around youth development, you will know that we are paying a very heavy price for the longevity of older players as youth players are now being shut out of teams and failing to develop because the games is still picking the older players due to CA and reputation levels.

Until SI rework the reputation system significantly to allow high reputation players to fade away gracefully into lower leagues or be managed out of clubs or into coaching roles to allow youth into the first team we have a real problem and the bulk of the player base, I am guessing, would choose good youth development over old player longevity while SI seem unable to give us both in a way that works.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by rp1966

[mozza79]

If anything too many remain top class player to mid/late 30's now although this is better than most players being done at 32 like it used to be.

 

[du Garbandier]

I just had fake Buffon in my fake Parma side -- well, in my squad -- for the first season, aged 43 or 44 . Only time I've ever seen a 40+ player at my club.

[santy001]

It was a couple of years back now but discounting the players in the starting DB (who will usually retire within a couple of seasons) around 39 is the current cut off point. I don't remember the exact thread now but it was explained its just due to issues that arose without that effective cut-off point. It's not the most satisfying of situations as I tend to keep older players around and make use of them in niche roles but the explanation provided makes sense. 

I often think of ideas to pitch on how to change this moving forward. One was to perhaps have a randomizer attached of 1-5 years, and something like 3-12 for players who have the PPM will play as long as possible. But then that produces an output which needs to be stored & it would have to be done for every player and it would be rather wasteful for the niche of players who would endure past this point.

[kingjericho]

Forget about Buffon, Oliveirense just signed a 55 y/o Japanese midfielder

[phnompenhandy]

Richard Jolly

 

In 1995, Neil Warnock was manager of Huddersfield and Gianluigi Buffon played for Parma. In 2023, Neil Warnock is manager of Huddersfield and Gianluigi Buffon is playing for Parma.

 

 

 

 

[enigmatic]

For every Buffon or Kazuyoshi Miura there are tens of thousands of pros that retire in their mid thirties if not before, and the probability a given footballer will be playing at 43 or 55 is so close to zero it's really not worth the time modelling it as a possibility. Because people aren't going to think "well this is very realistic, look at Kazuyoshi Miura" when James Milner is still playing League Two football in his late 40s in FM24 and a mid 40s De Gea is first choice at Atletico, they're going to think "SI screwed up here".

It's like the "can't we have variable PA so we can have some Jamie Vardy late bloomers". Even if you create that possibility you don't get talented but wayward footballer Jamie Vardy becoming an elite goalscorer and England international, you get six other bang average semi pro players in their early twenties becoming elite footballers and England internationals... which is obviously less realistic, and the simulation still misses whatever current young Conference player actually ends up playing some Premier League football....

[Maviarab]

10 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Because people aren't going to think "well this is very realistic, look at Kazuyoshi Miura"

It very obviously IS realistic though, isn't it?  And FM strives for realism....

So like everything else, are SI actually competent enough(and actually give a crap), to code it in a way that very, very few players this happens to, but the ones it does happen to, make perfect sense.  I'll leave that for you to decide.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Maviarab

[enigmatic]

2 minutes ago, Maviarab said:

It very obviously IS realistic though, isn't it?  And FM strives for realism....

So like everything else, are SI actually competent enough to code it in a way that very, very few players this happens to, but the ones it does happen to, make perfect sense (and actually give a crap).  I'll leave that for you to decide.

Well no, it isn't at all "realistic" to have Cristiano Ronaldo or James Milner or some random League Two goalkeeper having a career about twice as long as the actual career they and their peers have just because some ex Japan international born in 1967 who is not Cristiano Ronaldo or James Milner or a League Two goalkeeper and has very little in common with them has decided to see if he can trot around the lower levels until he's 60. 

As for SI's competence, any competent product manager is going to veto the idea of spending time and effort coding what factors would lead to someone playing until they're 56 and what their physical decline should look like by that stage, since for the majority of the history of football there have been absolutely no 56 year olds playing professionally anywhere in the world whilst millions of other professionals retired in their 30s, and all this effort would result in would be people filing bug reports because somebody didn't retire at a sensible age...

Still, since you seem to think its a matter of basic competence to identify what combination of traits and events would lead to somebody playing until they're 56, I do hope you can do so yourself, and perhaps give us some examples of some young players it would be unrealistic for the game to retire before the age of 40

 

 

 

[mitzra3l]

On 09/02/2023 at 23:30, BrunoG39 said:

Buffon used to retire straight away from Juve on FM years ago. FM17 I think. My point is, FM will never allow any player to carry on playing until their late 30s, but never ever to 40+

FM wanted to retire Buffon when his contract ended at Juventus. IRL Gianluigi didn't, he wen't and played for PSG, back to Juve - now at Parma, he's 45.

Each rendition of FM has still had Buffon in, he's 45 playing Serie B for Parma (still high standard).

No matter the stats of a player, the FM will decide to kill your player. 

Why? 

 

Answering your question in the post tittle, players do retire eventually, usually start to think about it around 35, as for longevity Buffon (45), Pepe (40) and why not Kazu Miura (54), are obvious exceptions but also a rarity. Players retiring from FM is a realistic feature of the game IMO. As IRL you see a lot of players over 40 in non professional leagues, but in top flight is normal for players to retire before that age

[agent007]

with each new regen created the size of the save get  bigger. 20 seasons in, its almost 1gb

[BrunoG39]

 

Just a healthy reminder that players are still very good past 39 in real life...

Nobody wants 120CA playing to 46, but it would be quite nice for a Betis fan to live out the dream of Joaquin surviving until 2023. 

FM17 I forced Aduritz into a player/coach role until he stopped accepting contracts - he was 41 - he scored 23 as a poacher that season

FM told quit on a player that was stat wise still capable - if they weren't capable, why suddenly retire?  But muh AI

That needs to stop. 

Obviously I don't need a 56 year old Jamie O'Hara in the game - but please do something. 

[BrunoG39]

Paulo Maldini, Giggs, Buffon, Costacutra, Zanetti, Alexander, Sheringham, Totti 

SI needs to sort out this. 

[forameuss]

Now go and write down the list of players that do retire on a relatively normal schedule.  Then as an additional exercise, write down the ones that retire earlier than that.  I wouldn't be surprised if the latter list is a lot longer than yours.

[dalenichol]

Kazuyoshi Miura still playing at 56. 

Obviously FM is broken and super unrealistic. Fix this SI!!!!

Or something. 

[MarvBAFC]

Neuer just retired in my save at age 40. I think they have this pretty spot on.