Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[chris72]

i keep losing away games even if the team is in poor form or are rubbish or are a rubbish team  its like im playing against real madrid. the match engine gets worse every year

[Tom14]

Jesus Christ this version is crap. As am LLM I can't set training sessions for my semi-pro team cos the schedules disappear as soon as you set them, my Swedish 4th tier crapo division players are willing to go on strike over the minutest thing such as the defensive options not being good enough (?).

[janrzm]

Posted yesterday about Saudi transfer activity AI. More thoughts and observations. 

Saudi Arabia and the current trend around big money moves simply had to be in FM24 for realism. At the same time I'm genuinely concerned that the game doesn't have adequate AI to balance and manage this phenomenon. I also ask myself what's hardcoded into the game because this could be a trend that lasts for several seasons (think China) or it may be an indefinite gravy train.

So, is there a scenario in game that randomises these outcomes, for instance it tails off after x amount of seasons or does it just go on and on with fees and wages increasing exponentially? I ran my beta for three seasons and the transfer activity was still going strong. Has anyone seen it tail off?

I've seen big money moves to Saudi in my save but I've actually been paying more attention to what happens to players who've gone to Saudi in game and are then put up for sale. I say this because I don't feel the game has either a mechanism or adequate AI to reintegrate players back into the wage structures of regular clubs.

For instance, I saw a 28 year old Rico Henry in my save, transfer listed by Al-Hilal for 12mil. He was currently on £850k pw with 3 years left on his deal. They had signed him 12 months earlier on a 4 year deal in 2024 for £65m.

His agent advised his client was looking for a salary of £1m-£1.1m per week. So actually looking to increase his current wage not fall back into alignment with the mainstream football wages. The club were not even offering a contribution to his salary which is something I think you could reasonably expect. I watched this for 3 months until the transfer window opened and then they released him on a free. I saw the same with other players.

I suspect what happened there was a quick fix in the coding to avoid a more complex AI solution. Even so, once on a free his wage demands were circa £750k pw. I suspect these will fall slowly over a couple of seasons as he sits there as a free agent.

Multiply these patterns by the significant number and profile of players moving to Saudi in game and it's potentially a black hole for talent and a genuine flaw in the gameplay.

[Nator]

I've decided to stop playing until it's patched, it's really not enjoyable in it's current form.

Away games are basically impossible. It doesn't matter if you play defensively, offensively, high or low line. Ultimately they will take their chances and your players wont - it doesn't seem to follow any rhyme or reason and just becomes irritating. 

The match engine seems to struggle with a single striker through the middle. All of the strikers i have played with struggle compared to the wider players.

[d d]

1 hour ago, Nator said:

I've decided to stop playing until it's patched, it's really not enjoyable in it's current form.

Away games are basically impossible. It doesn't matter if you play defensively, offensively, high or low line. Ultimately they will take their chances and your players wont - it doesn't seem to follow any rhyme or reason and just becomes irritating. 

The match engine seems to struggle with a single striker through the middle. All of the strikers i have played with struggle compared to the wider players.

I have not experienced that. I am winning home and away.

[Nator]

11 minutes ago, d d said:

I have not experienced that. I am winning home and away.

I'm happy you're happy.

[Gingerdilligaf]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

Posted yesterday about Saudi transfer activity AI. More thoughts and observations. 

Saudi Arabia and the current trend around big money moves simply had to be in FM24 for realism. At the same time I'm genuinely concerned that the game doesn't have adequate AI to balance and manage this phenomenon. I also ask myself what's hardcoded into the game because this could be a trend that lasts for several seasons (think China) or it may be an indefinite gravy train.

So, is there a scenario in game that randomises these outcomes, for instance it tails off after x amount of seasons or does it just go on and on with fees and wages increasing exponentially? I ran my beta for three seasons and the transfer activity was still going strong. Has anyone seen it tail off?

I've seen big money moves to Saudi in my save but I've actually been paying more attention to what happens to players who've gone to Saudi in game and are then put up for sale. I say this because I don't feel the game has either a mechanism or adequate AI to reintegrate players back into the wage structures of regular clubs.

For instance, I saw a 28 year old Rico Henry in my save, transfer listed by Al-Hilal for 12mil. He was currently on £850k pw with 3 years left on his deal. They had signed him 12 months earlier on a 4 year deal in 2024 for £65m.

His agent advised his client was looking for a salary of £1m-£1.1m per week. So actually looking to increase his current wage not fall back into alignment with the mainstream football wages. The club were not even offering a contribution to his salary which is something I think you could reasonably expect. I watched this for 3 months until the transfer window opened and then they released him on a free. I saw the same with other players.

I suspect what happened there was a quick fix in the coding to avoid a more complex AI solution. Even so, once on a free his wage demands were circa £750k pw. I suspect these will fall slowly over a couple of seasons as he sits there as a free agent.

Multiply these patterns by the significant number and profile of players moving to Saudi in game and it's potentially a black hole for talent and a genuine flaw in the gameplay.

Half the problem is the ridiculous fees clubs demand for unwanted players. Playing as Palace I was quoted £60m for Smith-Rowe who had only played 1 game in the whole of the previous season. Jadon Sancho played zero games & Man Utd wanted ridiculous money just to take him on loan. Its only the Saudi clubs that can afford half of these players otherwise they just rot in the reserves.

[d d]

15 minutes ago, Nator said:

I'm happy you're happy.

Yep

 

[whatsupdoc]

RE defending:

- You get a lot of goals that look similar to this:

https://medal.tv/games/football-manager-2024/clips/1EBbkb_FPrYKdj/d1337ahgKHtk?invite=cr-MSxmUDAsMTg2ODIxNTc3LA

(How do you clip a goal in game btw?

- A lot of goals from defensive blunders. Good ball players give away possession when playing out far too much. Good sweeper-keepers let a pass-back slide under their feet too often.

 

Overall:

The game is still highly scripted by the roles. You can't coach your players to position themselves where you want them in possession, and even on the highest pressing settings players don't really press. They're just more aggressive in challenging. 

After 300 hours I'd say the match engine is fundamentally the same as it has been for many years. It's just tweaked from a base that's passable but inherently limited. Hopefully at some point in the future they rebuild it. Real semi-profesisonal teams are using amazing software at the moment (for under 10k a year), I can only imagine what would be possible with a bigger budget for a single year development. Time to get some of these tools and base a new, more human match engine on them.

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[whatsupdoc]

Some examples RE positioning.

I'm playing out from the back. Setup is this: 

 

Here's an example of RWBs positioning when trying to play out:

 

Facing the defender and basically taking the space from him, compacting the pitch.

There's nothing more I can do to get him to position himself in a way that any decent u/16 player does. Facing forward, just beyond level (laterally) of the opponent's winger, stretching the opponent, dragging the AML out wide, creating space for Gilmour. Instead he far too often stands on top of the CB, taking his space.

The game would benefit from having a few more even semi-professional coaches involved with the ME. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[w44643233]

Personal guess, player data BUG. Could have something to do with the "Skip the race" button？

Edited November 19, 2023 by w44643233

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, janrzm said:

Those of us who are here every year have sadly become accustomed to a cycle where the game only gets anywhere near its best closer to the last update. (April/May) from memory. It's where we're at. 

 

Yeah im in the cycle of...

Buy game before release - Play for a month or two - Get frustrated by bugs and no fixes - Try again after winter update - stop playing fairly quickly - try again around June/July when the football seasons stopped - get hooked and pre-purchase the next version before release.

Value for money wise i still get so many hours its more than worth it, but i feel like if FM25 is the same then ill just start waiting until April/May to buy it.

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Some examples RE positioning.

I'm playing out from the back. Setup is this: 

 

Here's an example of RWBs positioning when trying to play out:

 

Facing the defender and basically taking the space from him, compacting the pitch.

There's nothing more I can do to get him to position himself in a way that any decent u/16 player does. Facing forward, just beyond level (laterally) of the opponent's winger, stretching the opponent, dragging the AML out wide, creating space for Gilmour. Instead he far too often stands on top of the CB, taking his space.

The game would benefit from having a few more even semi-professional coaches involved with the ME. 

Wonder if youve got short passing selected and its some flaw to do with that, players looking for passes always trying to be close to those in possession?

[RandomGuy.]

13 hours ago, dzek said:

Anyone who has pkm files and/or screenshots related to this problem, please upload them here! The SI developers cannot replicate or see the correct total number of woodworks because it is completely wrong from its base.

In my 4 examples within this bug report there are times when my team or opponents hit the woodwork and it didn't show up in the Match Stats. So maybe if they fix this first, then the match team will see the increased number of woodworks.

 

EDIT:  Just go into any save of yours and play 2-5 matches on key/extended/comprehensive or even in full match (better this one) but before, enable woodwork stat on your match stats and you will notice it too!

My example was from real life.

 

[dzek]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

My example was from real life.

 

Well, I didn't get it. Anyway this happens once in a while when there are 7 woodwork in a football game.

The issue in the bug report I posted above is that not all the woodwork are recorded within the ΜΕ stats. If you ask people here how many woodworks they see per game I think it will be above the numbers you see in real football games.

[RDF Tactics]

9 minutes ago, dzek said:

Well, I didn't get it. Anyway this happens once in a while when there are 7 woodwork in a football game.

The issue in the bug report I posted above is that not all the woodwork are recorded within the ΜΕ stats. If you ask people here how many woodworks they see per game I think it will be above the numbers you see in real football games.

The numbers are already above real games for me.

I have been reporting about the woodwork for couple years now. It’s become a running joke “RDF WoodworkFC” haha and I don’t think it will change. SI seem to be happy with it.

I’ve sent in me hitting the woodwork 5 games in a row and hitting it on average just over 2 times in those games. But also with the problem that sometimes we hit the woodwork and it doesn’t count on the stats.

I have a woodwork counter on streams   We ended up stop counting 

[dzek]

7 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

The numbers are already above real games for me.

I have been reporting about the woodwork for couple years now. It’s become a running joke “RDF WoodworkFC” haha and I don’t think it will change. SI seem to be happy with it.

I’ve sent in me hitting the woodwork 5 games in a row and hitting it on average just over 2 times in those games. But also with the problem that sometimes we hit the woodwork and it doesn’t count on the stats.

I have a woodwork counter on streams   We ended up stop counting 

So if each one was recorded correctly think about what numbers we would be talking about that you say are already above real life's 

Edited November 19, 2023 by dzek

[fm2020.smith]

ive said this already but si you need to sort out the moral side its literally broken the game. defender wants to be rested so you rest him defender then wants to play more games so you agree because you only rested him because he was nakered then defender wants to go on the transfer list and so on and so forth with every player you rest because they cant even walk they are so nakered!!! i would have thought they would have fixed this as a matter of urgency 

 

[herne79]

3 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Some examples RE positioning.

I'm playing out from the back. Setup is this: 

 

Here's an example of RWBs positioning when trying to play out:

 

Facing the defender and basically taking the space from him, compacting the pitch.

There's nothing more I can do to get him to position himself in a way that any decent u/16 player does. Facing forward, just beyond level (laterally) of the opponent's winger, stretching the opponent, dragging the AML out wide, creating space for Gilmour. Instead he far too often stands on top of the CB, taking his space.

The game would benefit from having a few more even semi-professional coaches involved with the ME. 

 

 

The issue you have there is your Halfback, not your CWB.  Your HB is making your central defenders split wider, so Webster is the one moving into the CWB’s space, not the other way around.  Arguably the CWB should be at least on the half turn but if he gets too far ahead the opposition AML will block the pass.

Personally I’ve always disliked the HB role and I can’t see the benefit in using a HB in that formation, so if you want to make changes I’d start there.

[fm2020.smith]

4 hours ago, janrzm said:

I've made countless posts about how the AI is at the core of this game. If the AI can't manage it's squad everything falls apart. It can't meet competition rules, it can't keep players happy, it can't rest and rotate players it can't develop and improve players......and if it can't do those things then it can't compete. If it can't compete all your achievements are undermined.

A refund from your point of purchase should be attainable because in all fairness I don't believe anyone could argue it's currently as advertised. Those of us who are here every year have sadly become accustomed to a cycle where the game only gets anywhere near its best closer to the last update. (April/May) from memory. It's where we're at. 

 

to be fair i agree with this. for miles to come out and say this is the best yet, and then the game is taken back to where its been last 3 years is just silly. i think he should have said its got everything in the game i wanted but left it at that its not a simulation of football yet again its not a strategy game in any aspect. players just don't do what they are supposed to on the pitch and the ai is terrible 

[dzek]

30 minutes ago, herne79 said:

The issue you have there is your Halfback, not your CWB.  Your HB is making your central defenders split wider, so Webster is the one moving into the CWB’s space, not the other way around.  Arguably the CWB should be at least on the half turn but if he gets too far ahead the opposition AML will block the pass.

Personally I’ve always disliked the HB role and I can’t see the benefit in using a HB in that formation, so if you want to make changes I’d start there.

I will disagree here because if CWB hug the touchline and AML block the pass to him then Gilmour will free up and have more space to receive the pass. That's how football works in real life. Every player's movement without the ball count tactically.

Also, if the pass to Gilmour is blocked, then Webster could make a fine pass over AML into the open space in front of CWB.

Edited November 19, 2023 by dzek

[whatsupdoc]

44 minutes ago, herne79 said:

The issue you have there is your Halfback, not your CWB.  Your HB is making your central defenders split wider, so Webster is the one moving into the CWB’s space, not the other way around.  Arguably the CWB should be at least on the half turn but if he gets too far ahead the opposition AML will block the pass.

Personally I’ve always disliked the HB role and I can’t see the benefit in using a HB in that formation, so if you want to make changes I’d start there.

Disagree, this is literally the job of the half back. To drop into the space between the centre-backs who split and go wider, allowing the 2/5 to take positions wide and (as I said) slightly above level/outside of the opponent's winger. 

When you play as a back 4 against 2 strikers, this makes a 2v3 at the back. When you play against a forward '3' the positioning I suggested above is even more important, as the full-back must position themselves as advanced and wide as possible whilst still staying in a passing lane, so they give the AML an impossible job to close both central and wide passing lanes. The CB can then advance with the ball while the AML is distracted (if they block the wide passing lane) or hit a central midfielder if possible.

Where the CB is, is definitely not the FB / WBs space when you're attempting to play out. Regardless of anything the 6 is doing. 

I don't understand your comment about the half back. 4-3-3 with one 6 is by far the most common and the original system incorporating a half back. You'll very rarely see it as a part of other formations.

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Wonder if youve got short passing selected and its some flaw to do with that, players looking for passes always trying to be close to those in possession?

Possible, I'll look into it. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[w44643233]

There are very serious problems with the light during the day, the same time, the same stadiums.  17 degrees, the weather is not completely sunny, and 30 degrees of sunny weather compared to determine the two light chasing effect is not opposite?

[Mitza]

I was just wondering - Would Saudi clubs pay more for specifically Saudi players? Are there homegrown rules in the Saudi League?

I'm thinking, if I'm poaching half decent Saudi youth players and grow them a bit, would Saudi clubs pay extra to fill their quotas? Or does the AI ignore that sort of stuff

[themadsheep2001]

My only issue with the woodwork is that more shots should miss the goal entirely. None of them should be going in with conversion rates as they are. But also sits firmly at the bottom of my personal list of things to look into in the ME

[herne79]

14 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I don't understand your comment about the half back. 4-3-3 with one 6 is by far the most common and the original system incorporating a half back. You'll very rarely see it as a part of other formations.

Yes, and you’re not using a 433.

Anyway, if you disagree with my comment about your use of a HB upload a pkm of the match to the Bugs forum and get SI to take a look at it .

[whatsupdoc]

9 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Yes, and you’re not using a 433.

Anyway, if you disagree with my comment about your use of a HB upload a pkm of the match to the Bugs forum and get SI to take a look at it .

Trying my best to. The positioning of "two 10s" in a 4-3-3 is extremely difficult to get right with flat 10s. I'm playing around with one advanced 10 with the deepest role and some PPMs at the moment. 

[flauta kicma]

It's like the goals aren't distributed like before, Iike most of the goals are coming through the wings and not the strikers. Do others have these experiences? Maybe it's just me because my wingers are better than the attackers at the moment.

Secondly, it seems to me that there is too much struggling away from home, as if it is coded that it has to be that way regardless of what the manager has done

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Trying my best to. The positioning of "two 10s" in a 4-3-3 is extremely difficult to get right with flat 10s. I'm playing around with one advanced 10 with the deepest role and some PPMs at the moment. 

By 10s, do you mean 8s moving into the half spaces, as you wouldn't play a flat 433 with two 10s? And you need players moving into the space they vacate. If they move into the half spaces and the HB drops into the D-line youve just vacated your midfield. 

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, flauta kicma said:

Secondly, it seems to me that there is too much struggling away from home, as if it is coded that it has to be that way regardless of what the manager has done

Away games aren't coded like that, AI manager's play differently home and away based on the strength and form of who they're playing against   

[whatsupdoc]

20 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

By 10s, do you mean 8s moving into the half spaces, as you wouldn't play a flat 433 with two 10s? And you need players moving into the space they vacate. If they move into the half spaces and the HB drops into the D-line youve just vacated your midfield. 

What you'd typically call "two tens in a 4-3-3" - "advanced playmakers in front of an anchor / half back". In a lot of countries these players would be referred to as "two tens". "Do you play with one six and two tens, or two 6s and one ten?"

Players who you would never want dropping in front of their opposing 6/8 in the build up phase.

Player's you'd either want level/outside of their opposing 6/8, or in between lines in a passing lane (beyond the opponent's 6/8).

Extremely difficult to get it to work like the above in FM. 

Anyway in terms of starting position I was talking about this:

 

I find that with the above they don't try to find space in between lines enough. 

Whereas if I play them more advanced (in the space behind the striker which a single 10 would usually occupy), then they often play as a second striker and are coming to get the ball with their back to goal, rather than on the half-turn in between lines.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[themadsheep2001]

20 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

What you'd typically call "two tens in a 4-3-3" - "advanced playmakers in front of an anchor / half back".

Players who you would never want dropping in front of their opposing 6/8 in the build up phase.

Player's you'd either want level/outside of their opposing 6/8, or in between lines in a passing lane (beyond the opponent's 6/8).

Extremely difficult to get it to work like the above in FM. 

Anyway in terms of starting position I was talking about this:

 

I find that with the above they don't try to find space in between lines enough. 

Whereas if I play them more advanced (in the space behind the striker which a single 10 would usually occupy), then they often play as a second striker and are coming to get the ball with their back to goal, rather than on the half-turn in between lines.

 

Its extremely difficult to set up here because i dont think the role choices are particularly cohesive

The image shows essentially what your movement is trying to be, you've got no build up or midfield. If you want them to play between the lines with a bit more movement, you want something like moves into channels, or even select roaming playmakers. You want a fulcrum so i wouldnt play a half back, unless youve got inverted fullbacks stepping from left, and perhaps right, to create a midfield platform. 

The aim of the halfback is to drop into the back like to create a man advantage passing out to bypass a press - i get your logic. But youre missing the next bit considering you want to play a lower tempo shorting passing game - wheres the next option to build up through the lines?

 

[Johnny Ace]

15 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

What you'd typically call "two tens in a 4-3-3" - "advanced playmakers in front of an anchor / half back". In a lot of countries these players would be referred to as "two tens". "Do you play with one six and two tens, or two 6s and one ten?"

The way I play it, typically, if I want my 8 shoving up into the 10 (or even 9) position, I want my 6 role to be more positive. The other 8, I'd want to remain as an 8 to try and keep the midfield 3 as a unit 

[Dadecane]

11 hours ago, Nator said:

I've decided to stop playing until it's patched, it's really not enjoyable in it's current form.

Away games are basically impossible. It doesn't matter if you play defensively, offensively, high or low line. Ultimately they will take their chances and your players wont - it doesn't seem to follow any rhyme or reason and just becomes irritating. 

The match engine seems to struggle with a single striker through the middle. All of the strikers i have played with struggle compared to the wider players.

Some people claim the game is too easy though. Lol 

I personally think the game is right with difficulty, but I have not seem this “cant win on the road” issues or “striker” issues. My starting striker in a 4-3-3, has scored 20+ goals in all 3 of my season since early access. Ive also won about the same amount of games home or away. 

[herne79]

@whatsupdoc  Exactly as TMS and Johnny are saying.  As I said above, imo your HB is causing you problems - now I've seen what you're trying to achieve it's definitely causing you issues.

I get that you want "2x10s" but in FM terms you don't need to assign a playmaker role to be a kind of playmaker - player Traits and role PIs can take care of that.  As an example, below is my current midfield 3 in my 433.  I could easily use a HB rather than DM (I don't as I don't like the role) or change the DLP to an AP or the CM to a Mezz for example.

Honestly, I know you disagreed (and the ME is certainly not free of issues), but a lot of the issues you are having stems from your formation and role choice.

Edited November 19, 2023 by herne79

[SHK-555]

Just wanted to leave some positive feed back on the game. Imo this is the best FM ever in terms of M.E, everything is fluid, the players movement on and off the ball is a joy to watch, feels like I'm watching a real game of football, Seeing goals hit the back of the net, the way and motion players take penalties and variety of goals is incredible. I'm not seeing ridiculous high scores, save for the odd game here or there against rubbish teams but nothing game breaking. I done 4 different saves and only during the early access did I notice excessive complaints from players complaining about squad depth. Since the patch, I've not had any mutiny just general odd requests for new contracts, or not enough playing time. There could be more options for player interactions but overall everything is seamless , but other than that I don't see why peeps are saying it's unplayable or broken. The transfer market is competitive, I've lost out on players to other bigger clubs and the saudi power is a welcome addition. If I had to score the game it would be 9/10

[whatsupdoc]

56 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Its extremely difficult to set up here because i dont think the role choices are particularly cohesive

The image shows essentially what your movement is trying to be, you've got no build up or midfield. If you want them to play between the lines with a bit more movement, you want something like moves into channels, or even select roaming playmakers. You want a fulcrum so i wouldnt play a half back, unless youve got inverted fullbacks stepping from left, and perhaps right, to create a midfield platform. 

The aim of the halfback is to drop into the back like to create a man advantage passing out to bypass a press - i get your logic. But youre missing the next bit considering you want to play a lower tempo shorting passing game - wheres the next option to build up through the lines?

 

 

It's complicated because the 10s do not actually take the position your arrows point to in the build up phase on support duty, so I'm trying some stuff that may not make sense on paper to try and get decent movement/positioning, especially in the build up phase.

In the build up phase a 10 on support duty will often drop in. Some examples:

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[Dadecane]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

The issue you have there is your Halfback, not your CWB.  Your HB is making your central defenders split wider, so Webster is the one moving into the CWB’s space, not the other way around.  Arguably the CWB should be at least on the half turn but if he gets too far ahead the opposition AML will block the pass.

Personally I’ve always disliked the HB role and I can’t see the benefit in using a HB in that formation, so if you want to make changes I’d start there.

Yup, half back completely kills that formation (or any in my experience lol). Also 2 cwb’s and a libero is probably gonna cause some confusion with so many defenders going up 

[Dadecane]

The game itself suggest having at least 3 players in defend duty and theres only 1 on that lineup. 
 

the ai does have issues, but my first thought when I saw that lineup was “what a mess”. No way that works

[Dadecane]

18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

@whatsupdoc  Exactly as TMS and Johnny are saying.  As I said above, imo your HB is causing you problems - now I've seen what you're trying to achieve it's definitely causing you issues.

I get that you want "2x10s" but in FM terms you don't need to assign a playmaker role to be a kind of playmaker - player Traits and role PIs can take care of that.  As an example, below is my current midfield 3 in my 433.  I could easily use a HB rather than DM (I don't as I don't like the role) or change the DLP to an AP or the CM to a Mezz for example.

Honestly, I know you disagreed (and the ME is certainly not free of issues), but a lot of the issues you are having stems from your formation and role choice.

I use the same midfield 3. Except I go CM/attack, B2B/support, and DM/support or defense. 

[whatsupdoc]

6 minutes ago, Dadecane said:

The game itself suggest having at least 3 players in defend duty and theres only 1 on that lineup. 
 

the ai does have issues, but my first thought when I saw that lineup was “what a mess”. No way that works

Just playing around to try to get players to behave / position themselves in a build-up phase as they would IRL - regardless of the names of the roles. Hasn't been possible so far with any setup.

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Just playing around to try to get players to behave / position themselves in the build-up phase as they would IRL - regardless of the names of the roles. Hasn't been possible so far with any setup.

Your role selection and combinations are not good. Thats what several people are trying to tell you. 

[whatsupdoc]

17 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Your role selection and combinations are not good. Thats what several people are trying to tell you. 

Sort of talking past one another here. 

I started talking about the positioning of the WBs when playing out. I think the code for it could probably use a look, because regardless of the PPMs, team and player settings I use, they don't position themselves well. 

Moved on to talking about 10s. Again, what I'm saying is that in the build up phase, if you put them on an advanced playmaker (support) role, they will often drop and pick the ball up from the toes of your defensive line. Provided a few screenshots. Another thing that could probably use a look.

I'm not talking about overall roles and cohesion. 

Trying to make a point about how the positioning of players could use another look with some good football coaches / analysts.

The only really relevant or on point comment so far was from the guy who suggested that short passing could impact the positioning / behaviour of the WB. Trying that out and seeing how it impacts positioning now. 

The rest of the discussion is kind of switching the focus to something which wasn't the original topic.

Basically, for the purposes of this discussion and to provide feedback on the game, if anyone can provide any configuration (team, PPM, player settings) that will lead to decent positioning when playing out in a 4-3-3, please pass it on and I'll have a look.

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[damjanovski]

I still stand by the claim that this is the best ME ever. However, I believe the main issue for high scoring games is the accuracy of the shooting. Even players with low long shots and finishing attributes are able to consistently hit the target and score goals. If this is to be tonned down, we will be enjoying the game more,

Just me modest opinion,

 

[themadsheep2001]

25 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Sort of talking past one another here. 

I started talking about the positioning of the WBs when playing out. I think the code for it could probably use a look, because regardless of the PPMs, team and player settings I use, they don't position themselves well. 

Moved on to talking about 10s. Again, what I'm saying is that in the build up phase, if you put them on an advanced playmaker (support) role, they will often drop and pick the ball up from the toes of your defensive line. Another thing that could probably use a look.

I'm not talking about overall roles and cohesion. 

Trying to make a point about how the positioning of players could use another look with some good football coaches / analysts.

The only really relevant or on point comment so far was from the guy who suggested that short passing could impact the positioning / behaviour of the WB. Trying that out and seeing how it impacts positioning now. 

The rest of the discussion is kind of switching the focus to something which wasn't the focus or original topic.

They have to pick up the ball from the defensive line because you have no midfield. The DM they should be getting the ball from is in the defensive line, and there is no IWB acting as DMs. So they are using intelligent behaviour to react to poor tactical selection. Its been possible to play between the lines and half spaces with ease since at least FM18. The CWB-A isnt taking up deep support roles because thats not its role. 

This is what you said you wanted:

"Players who you would never want dropping in front of their opposing 6/8 in the build up phase.

Player's you'd either want level/outside of their opposing 6/8, or in between lines in a passing lane (beyond the opponent's 6/8)"

Mezzalas with a DM support behind them and at least one inverted Wingback, if not two. Youre wanting to load the midfield base to play the 8s much higher up the pitch. Which is the exact opposite of the roles you have selected.  

I used to do this with a mezzala, RPM, DMS combination, one IWBD, one IWBS

[whatsupdoc]

32 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They have to pick up the ball from the defensive line because you have no midfield. The DM they should be getting the ball from is in the defensive line, and there is no IWB acting as DMs. So they are using intelligent behaviour to react to poor tactical selection. Its been possible to play between the lines and half spaces with ease since FM18. The CWB-A isnt taking up deep support roles because thats not its role. 

This is what you said you wanted:

"Players who you would never want dropping in front of their opposing 6/8 in the build up phase.

Player's you'd either want level/outside of their opposing 6/8, or in between lines in a passing lane (beyond the opponent's 6/8)"

Mezzalas with a DM support behind them and at least one inverted Wingback, if not two. Youre wanting to load the midfield base to play the 8s much higher up the pitch. Which is the exact opposite of the roles you have selected.  

I used to do this with a mezzala, RPM, DMS combination, one IWBD, one IWBS

Not really... As pictured in the screenshots above, this is all happening within half a pitch +5m. With the opponent's defenders near the half way line. So "having no midfield" with that setup would actually look like defenders on the edge of the box in possession and advanced playmakers around the D in my half. Most of my CBs have "carry ball out of defence' as a PPM also. 

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, Will take a look now.

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[whatsupdoc]

K here we go!

Fiorentina -v- Fiorentina u/18s.

Mainly focussed on Vermeeren in the build-up to see if we can stop him coming to pick up the ball from defenders toes with his back to goal in our half. Ideally we'd want to see him try to find positions between our opponent's midfield and defence.

 

On the far side his positioning seems decent! General example: 

 

On the near side he'll often present for the short pass, back to goal in front of their midfield regardless of other options. Do you think this would change if I changed the passing length from "shorter" to "slightly shorter"?

 

 

[RDF Tactics]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

My only issue with the woodwork is that more shots should miss the goal entirely. None of them should be going in with conversion rates as they are. But also sits firmly at the bottom of my personal list of things to look into in the ME

The issue being it ruins immersion. You draw 1-1 but you’ve hit the woodwork 4 times. One player could see that as very unlucky. Another, like you, could have some understanding to why so many shots hit the woodwork. Another, it breaks their immersion completely because they don’t want to see so many highlight shots hitting the woodwork.

Possibly it doesn’t effect your enjoyment or immersion but it certainly effects others.

many things would be bottom of my personal priority list but difficult to say, publicly, it would be bottom of my list knowing it hugely effects others. 

[Johnny Ace]

9 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

K here we go!

Fiorentina -v- Fiorentina u/18s.

Mainly focussed on Vermeeren in the build-up to see if we can stop him coming to pick up the ball from defenders toes with his back to goal in our half. Ideally we'd want to see him try to find positions between our opponent's midfield and defence.

The ball is very deep in both screenshots, as a CM, he's dropping back to help play out from the back, as the ball (attack) moves up the pitch, so will he 

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

The issue being it ruins immersion. You draw 1-1 but you’ve hit the woodwork 4 times. One player could see that as very unlucky. Another, like you, could have some understanding to why so many shots hit the woodwork. Another, it breaks their immersion completely because they don’t want to see so many highlight shots hitting the woodwork.

Possibly it doesn’t effect your enjoyment or immersion but it certainly effects others.

many things would be bottom of my personal priority list but difficult to say, publicly, it would be bottom of my list knowing it hugely effects others. 

It might potentially ruin their immersion but given its the result of so many end products, and realistically these woodworks wont be going on anyway if they are toned down, I'm willing to bet its going to be very low down their list. Realistically the alternative is going to be 1-1, and the shots miss wide. 

[whatsupdoc]

18 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

On the near side he'll often present for the short pass, back to goal in front of their midfield regardless of other options. Do you think this would change if I changed the passing length from "shorter" to "slightly shorter"?

 

 

 

Did a few more tests and can answer my own question:

CMs are hard coded to come short with their back to goal when on the ball side (regardless of roles), but can position themselves in between lines on the far side (with some roles, i.e. advanced playermaker and mezzala). 

 

7 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

The ball is very deep in both screenshots, as a CM, he's dropping back to help play out from the back, as the ball (attack) moves up the pitch, so will he 

He shouldn't if you're applying positional principles. Or at the very least, there should be one role where he will try to create space by dragging their CMs backwards rather than constricting space by coming and picking the ball up with his back to goal, without breaking a line. If an u/16 did that you'd do your next session on positioning when playing out.

Edited November 19, 2023 by whatsupdoc