Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[Rashidi]

14 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Gotta love backups saying things like "there will be consequences for this, I'll make sure of it".  Yeah, there will, and the consequence will be you never play again.

I dumped a player into the 2nd team ignored him for 3 months brought him back into the main team played him there then sold him off.   The 2nd team is useful.

[SimonHoddle]

On 31/12/2023 at 11:20, whatsupdoc said:

Example of attributes not mattering enough:

Put my 17 year old back-up keeper in the AF role for a couple of games:

Note the 1 off the ball, 3 first touch etc etc.

First game in the league cup we won 5-0, he scored and finished on a 7.6 rating:

 

Second game away to Arsenal we lost 5-2 but he scores and rates 7.1.

 

Next game at home to Liverpool, Van Dijk is no match for him as he scores for the third game running and we run out 3-2 winners: 

 

Conversion rate of 43% from 0.23 XG/shot.

C

 

This is shocking!! Anyone at SI have an answer?

[SimonHoddle]

On 31/12/2023 at 12:01, dannyo666 said:

It seems only physical and mental matter in 24....i put saliba upfront for a season,he got 15 goals,he looked like a world class poacher.....As someone said everything thats needs to be said has been said...i really dont know where this series is going....

Wtf!!!! This is a joke. Makes the game a joke. So what does matter? I’ve always defended SI and said this game (for all its faults) isn’t scripted and is an incredibly well built and believable reconstruction of football. Turns out I was wrong and it’s utter BS. and they just rely on gamers not doing silly things which will reveal the game to be a fallacy. SI really need to address this and explain why the above example of a kid GK is happening.

[KingCanary]

On 31/12/2023 at 13:24, steve333333 said:

I have to say, I'm struggling to really enjoy this game while still playing a lot.

On the one hand, some parts of the match game experience are by far the most sophisticated they've ever been. The way the ball moves, the deflections, the variations in shot types are all things of beauty. Makes me wonder why more focus has not been put into this before.

I don't require better quality graphics than what we have, just a better depiction of the way football is played, with all it's different types of shots, passes, saves, ricochets, tackles etc. Give me more animations! I can't wait for a game which depicts stepovers, and I hope this is the area which the FM team put all their energy into improving for the next edition.

I'd also say the game has been visually improved so much by the modders out there. I've got a beautiful skin, photos of players and stadiums and it really brings life to it.

On the other, there are a number of bugs in my game which really detract from my experience. I don't know about others, but I'm currently playing in England and - no matter what the weather says, be that downpour or drizzle - the match is played out in a hazy summer light, half of the players in my game have lost all their career history, and my scouts are incapable of finding anyone. This is just a selection of the most irritating ones to me.

I understand bugs are part and parcel of a game, but it's disappointing that something as fundamental as the visuals of a match is still a problem well after the release date. I feel like I'm having to overlooking faults in large parts of the game to enjoy it.

Then, there are the other wider issues such as the flawed player interaction system in need of a complete rewrite, the stale, generic stadium visuals which must be opened up to modding, the inability of the AI to squad build, and the lack of distinct tactical styles on display.

At its core, there's a potentially brilliant game here but its flaws make it a frustrating experience for me.

I'm enjoying the game more than you but I think the final line is an excellent summary.

I think the core of the game (the match engine) is an enjoyable as it has been for a long time. Deflections, poor passes, players making errors under pressure are all present but there is variety to it, unlike in previous versions where defenders were constantly getting caught out by missing long balls over the top but could pass like prime Baresi even under pressure. I can see the differences when I move different players to different roles and it does feel like different teams play different brands of football.

However, everything else outside of that feels messy and all to often makes it difficult to suspend disbelief. Shouts for instance- this feels like the gamiest part of matchday experience as player reactions never vary and the only thing that seems to matter when choosing a shout is the current score. You can encourage if you're behind or drawing but not if you're winning! It feels like you're playing a mini game rather than trying to motivate actual players. The commentary bar also often doesn't match up with what is happening on the pitch- seeing a message about an amazing assist when it was actually a cross that took a giant deflection for example.

There are too many elements in the wider game that are an active detriment to the immersion that I think is so important. Press conferences, social feed, backroom advice is all so poorly executed that they take away far more than they add to the game and thus often are ignored by many players. It does feel at times like I'm having to almost fight against the game to remain immersed.

[tezcatlipoca665]

On 31/12/2023 at 11:20, whatsupdoc said:

Example of attributes not mattering enough:

Put my 17 year old back-up keeper in the AF role for a couple of games:

Note the 1 off the ball, 3 first touch etc etc.

First game in the league cup we won 5-0, he scored and finished on a 7.6 rating:

 

Second game away to Arsenal we lost 5-2 but he scores and rates 7.1.

 

Next game at home to Liverpool, Van Dijk is no match for him as he scores for the third game running and we run out 3-2 winners: 

 

Conversion rate of 43% from 0.23 XG/shot.

C

 

This might interest some.
 

 

[RDF Tactics]

30 minutes ago, tezcatlipoca665 said:

This might interest some.
 

 

I don't know why this happens but it's been happening for a little while. Last year, Hector Bellerin was my top scorer as AF at Barca due to Lewandowski dropping form. I got frustrated and to prove a point on stream, we threw Hector Bellerin up front as a AF and he couldn't miss. But it weren't the fact he was scoring goals, it was the type of goals. Long shots, headers etc.

I don't know why it happens but it would be for sure interesting to hear the possibilities. 

[Rodrigogc]

43 minutos atrás, KingCanary disse:

.It does feel at times like I'm having to almost fight against the game to remain immersed.

It's been like this for a few years and you can be sure many people feel this way. FM has become a constant fight, instead of a decent AI presenting you challenge, they now throw in your face a bunch of complaints, injuries, weird board decisions, everything that can feel like you are having a hard time playing the game, meanwhile you go to some PSG squad and you will see some Hlouzek playing 3 matches in the season even though they paid 80M to sign him.

The thing about shouts, press conferences, all of this has become just a busywork to make the game feel realistic, when in fact it just makes you bored. All the interactions are completely stupid, they present you with 7 boxes to click but only one will work, and it always work. It is literally a figure-out-point-and-click busywork that takes a lot of time and once you get used to it, you don't even have to read the question, you click a box called "POSITIVE" and get the same desired outcome. 

The only enjoyable part of this game has been watching the fluidity of the ME, that is great. All the rest is just boring, even creating tactics has become boring with all these presets, you don't even have to think anymore. Training you don't have to change anything, it doesn't make much difference. Scouting not working properly, staff is almost useless, AI squad building bizarre.... 

The thing is that SI spent so much time adding new stuff in the game that if you had to spend time thinking what to do in training, interactions, etc.. you would spend your whole day, and that is obviously not viable. But that is what the game should be like, a simulator where you have to think what you are doing, not figure out the right button to click to get the desired outcome. 

 

Edited January 2 by Rodrigogc

[NineCloudNine]

Many games committed to an annual update cycle fall into the trap of thinking they must have a new feature for every release.

I played an MMORPG for many years which did this. The result was a mess of different game systems, many of them never developed past their release because developers were already working on the next thing.

In FM the social feed, press conferences, player interactions and touchline shouts are all basically untouched since their introduction. It’s a shame because they could be great, but the effort involved to keep them all fresh, while also updating the ME and core elements like transfers and tactics, is far too much for a developer team committed to an annual release cycle.

Like many people I would gladly pay an annual subscription for a game with a steady data & update cycle, rather than an annual box office release which the marketing team insist needs a new thing added every time.

Edited January 2 by NineCloudNine

[fc.cadoni]

1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:

Many games committed to an annual update cycle fall into the trap of thinking they must have a new feature for every release.

I played an MMORPG for many years which did this. The result was a mess of different game systems, many of them never developed past their release because developers were already working on the next thing.

In FM the social feed, press conferences, player interactions and touchline shouts are all basically untouched since their introduction. It’s a shame because they could be great, but the effort involved to keep them all fresh, while also updating the ME and core elements like transfers and tactics, is far too much for a developer team committed to an annual release cycle.

Like many people I would gladly pay an annual subscription for a game with a steady data & update cycle, rather than an annual box office release which the marketing team insist needs a new thing added every time.

Against sub model for full game.

If someone plays FM via Apple Arcade; has to play 8 euros per month which equals 96 euros for a year. No thank you, I am ok with 50 euros.

Edited January 2 by fc.cadoni

[tropicsafc]

"4th goal of the season"....

a memorable moment as he scores his first senior goal!

[dunk105]

On 31/12/2023 at 11:35, DolphinSpain said:

I'll ask again as there was no answer; has the 'play offside trap' been removed from tactics? It sounds like an obvious answer but I find it ridiculous if it has.

No, its been changed to using either or both of high line and step up. Would be useful if the step up tool tip mentioned it though.

[dunk105]

On 29/12/2023 at 08:29, Hoffbeck said:

Anyone else seing results like this way to often?

Whats the issue? The winning team has an XG/s of 0.26 and the losing 0.17 meaning the winning teams chances created were of better quality, over 50% better in fact.

The issue here is you like many not understanding how XG works and assuming a higher total XG should mean winning each time. After all a team could have 100 shots from the halfway line and generate XG of close to 10, but does that mean they should score a goal? Of course not.

[NineCloudNine]

41 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Against sub model for full game.

If someone plays FM via Apple Arcade; has to play 8 euros per month which equals 96 euros for a year. No thank you, I am ok with 50 euros.

I assumed - wrongly it seems! - it was obvious that I was suggesting an annual sub for the same price as buying the game each year currently.

The point to me is that the same developer time/effort would go into the game, but it would be in the form of ongoing smaller updates rather than a one-off each year.

I wouldn’t pay €96 a year either and I have no idea why someone would do that for the AA version.

[Hzano123]

2 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

I don't know why this happens but it's been happening for a little while. Last year, Hector Bellerin was my top scorer as AF at Barca due to Lewandowski dropping form. I got frustrated and to prove a point on stream, we threw Hector Bellerin up front as a AF and he couldn't miss. But it weren't the fact he was scoring goals, it was the type of goals. Long shots, headers etc.

I don't know why it happens but it would be for sure interesting to hear the possibilities. 

At the end of the day, it just a computer game with numbers being calculated. It is still possible there to roll the perfect dice for you to get a scenario where these types of thing to happen but the chance might be a little bit too high I do agree.

 

On the other news, I still struggling with my players being very sensitive and angry against me thou.

[DolphinSpain]

41 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

No, its been changed to using either or both of high line and step up. Would be useful if the step up tool tip mentioned it though.

So, put simply; 'step up' = 'try to play offsdies'?

[SimonHoddle]

3 hours ago, RDF Tactics said:

I don't know why this happens but it's been happening for a little while. Last year, Hector Bellerin was my top scorer as AF at Barca due to Lewandowski dropping form. I got frustrated and to prove a point on stream, we threw Hector Bellerin up front as a AF and he couldn't miss. But it weren't the fact he was scoring goals, it was the type of goals. Long shots, headers etc.

I don't know why it happens but it would be for sure interesting to hear the possibilities. 

Wow. This is becoming a regular complaint. Totally unrealistic. Do SI rely on the fact the gamers (paying customers) don’t try anything ridiculous because if they do, the game gets found out. SI please address this. It’s important. If you have a valid explanation that would be great.

[Sunstrikuuu]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I dumped a player into the 2nd team ignored him for 3 months brought him back into the main team played him there then sold him off.   The 2nd team is useful.

Yep.  Just waiting for the summer window. 

 

55 minutes ago, dunk105 said:

Whats the issue? The winning team has an XG/s of 0.26 and the losing 0.17 meaning the winning teams chances created were of better quality, over 50% better in fact.

The issue here is you like many not understanding how XG works and assuming a higher total XG should mean winning each time. After all a team could have 100 shots from the halfway line and generate XG of close to 10, but does that mean they should score a goal? Of course not.

For 100 shots from halfway to generate 10 xG they'd have to be worth 0.1 xG each.  I think the actual math on that, for shots from greater than 35 yards out from a central position, is more like 0.02 xG/shot.  Of course, the actual halfway line is further back than that.  I think it's entirely likely that a team could take 100 shots from the center circle and fail to accumulate 0.5 xG from them.  It's such an infrequent event, though, that an xG model is probably useless for this case anyway.

[Jack Sarahs]

1 hour ago, DolphinSpain said:

So, put simply; 'step up' = 'try to play offsdies'?

Hi @DolphinSpain

I wrote a brief explanation for "step up" / "drop off" in a thread last year.

Hopefully this helps!
 

 

[KingCanary]

A relatviely minor bugbear of mine that is still in the game re scouting.

If I ask a scout to assess a player and that player moves during the scouting process, surely they should let me know and give me the option to stop scouting them?

It is weird to send a scout to look at a player in Brazil and get a report with that shows he moved to Germany two weeks ago. Did this scout just follow him over to keep watching him? Do they not think a player having accepted a move elsewhere may change how interested we are in scouting them? It would make sense to get a quick notification saying 'player X has completed a move to Frankfurt, do you want me to keep scouting?'

[whatsupdoc]

Fyi, the goalkeeper example needs clarification. 

He's effectively a poacher putting the last touch on crosses. He's not making mazy runs or playing like Francesco Totti.

The conclusion shouldn't be "attributes don't matter". 

The conclusion should be that there are possibly some specific bugs around the AF, and perhaps pressing that need a look. 

I'll upload some pkms for SI shortly.  

[Sunstrikuuu]

Another relatively minor irritation that's been in the game forever:

£105 million for arguably the best winger in the game is a breathtaking bid, I guess, but in the wrong direction.  Jamal Muisla is being linked to clubs for £150m or more, Vinicius Jr for £250m, and Khvicha Kvaratskhelia  for £197m (Arsenal's Martinelli is linked for £106m, which is another data point here).  I know it doesn't matter because I as Arsenal's manager get to choose how much I sell Saka for, but it's odd that Saka's linked to clubs for 60% or less of what his peers are linked to clubs for.  Likewise Saliba's £81m suggested pricetag is more than £50m less than De Ligt, £130m less than Gvardiol, and £90m less than Levi Colwill.  Martin Odegaard's £100m pricetag -- Bernardo Silva's is 2.5x as much, Bruno Fernandez is more than double, Foden is 2.25x.

Valuation is weird, and it's not entirely cosmetic, because these values affect player happiness with the asking price you put on them.  And happiness is a whole thing.

[Mr Tonio]

Il y a 2 heures, whatsupdoc a dit :

Fyi, the goalkeeper example needs clarification. 

He's effectively a poacher putting the last touch on crosses. He's not making mazy runs or playing like Francesco Totti.

The conclusion shouldn't be "attributes don't matter". 

The conclusion should be that there are possibly some specific bugs around the AF, and perhaps pressing that need a look. 

I'll upload some pkms for SI shortly, they've already been in touch asking for some so they can look into it.  

Ok, so, strikers are broken. That is a big deal. It's an important part of the game and of the fun playing it. After all the transparency stance before beta, SI needs to acknowledge it and strive to fix it. I'm still asking: anyone have a beta build that we can use till it's patched? I stopped playing game, i want to play it still.

[El Payaso]

The thing with goalkeepers scoring goals like regular outfield players isn't anything new though. Back in FM 2015, I always used to play my backup keepers as wingers in Copa del Rey as they were able to perform as well as any outfield player. I remember my 38-year-old keeper scoring 2 and assisting 1 from AMR position in the cup and this wasn't an exception.

I think that at least at some point playing players out of a position that they know only meant that decision-making is going to be a bit lower than normal. A couple of years ago, also, for example, the first touch attribute didn't need to matter at all because according to Nick Madden from SI, "even players playing in the local park can control the ball perfectly". This is a direct quote from him when I reported my LLM playing a bit too delightful tiki-taka-styled football without any signs of technical limitations. 

[Sunstrikuuu]

1 minute ago, Litmanen 10 said:

The thing with goalkeepers scoring goals like regular outfield players isn't anything new though. Back in FM 2015, I always used to play my backup keepers as wingers in Copa del Rey as they were able to perform as well as any outfield player. I remember my 38-year-old keeper scoring 2 and assisting 1 from AMR position in the cup and this wasn't an exception.

I think that at least at some point playing players out of a position that they know only meant that decision-making is going to be a bit lower than normal. A couple of years ago, also, for example, the first touch attribute didn't need to matter at all because according to Nick Madden from SI, "even players playing in the local park can control the ball perfectly". This is a direct quote from him when I reported my LLM playing a bit too delightful tiki-taka-styled football without any signs of technical limitations. 

Cool, I wish they'd bring that philosophy back and just revert to the FM22 match engine then.

[whatsupdoc]

2 hours ago, Mr Tonio said:

Ok, so, strikers are broken. That is a big deal. It's an important part of the game and of the fun playing it. After all the transparency stance before beta, SI needs to acknowledge it and strive to fix it. I'm still asking: anyone have a beta build that we can use till it's patched? I stopped playing game, i want to play it still.

Strikers are broken is an exaggeration. 

There are instances where strikers are getting on the end of high xA crosses when perhaps they shouldn't be.

Also possibly finishing first time with their weaker foot better than they should. 

Edited January 2 by whatsupdoc

[andu1]

I figured out how to make scouting actually work... I set up a recruitment focus with current ability 3 silver stars and potential 4 stars.

I didnt touch the age , since that seems to block the discoveries completely. They have now actually started to scout players....

[Mr Tonio]

Il y a 2 heures, whatsupdoc a dit :

Strikers are broken is an exaggeration. 

 

It's clearly not. Just read this thread.

[CrowManager]

I'm not a soccer expert and I don't watch much high level soccer so my question may be out of left but isn't it widely considered that players are expected to do multiple roles/positions these days, is that not part of what total football is about? 

To me it's a bit immersion breaking that a 17 year old backup goalkeeper can come in and do that, they should not be physically ready in most cases, though that is a limited sample size. Isn't it to be semi expected that any random player at the Premier League level can semi reasonably get into positions a bit? As a defender you know what attackers do, lot of it is down to the physicals and mentals, no? 

 

[stevemc]

in England, anyone noticed that if you sell a player who fails a work permit, and the buying team cannot allocated a spare ESC slot, that the transfer just stays "stuck" and you cannot cancel it (and they cannot proceed to buy), it just auto cancels when the next window closes? Happened twice to me now.

[Rashidi]

7 hours ago, CrowManager said:

I'm not a soccer expert and I don't watch much high level soccer so my question may be out of left but isn't it widely considered that players are expected to do multiple roles/positions these days, is that not part of what total football is about? 

To me it's a bit immersion breaking that a 17 year old backup goalkeeper can come in and do that, they should not be physically ready in most cases, though that is a limited sample size. Isn't it to be semi expected that any random player at the Premier League level can semi reasonably get into positions a bit? As a defender you know what attackers do, lot of it is down to the physicals and mentals, no? 

 

Some top academies like Ajax play specific formations and expect youngsters to know what’s required when playing in different positions but not all clubs are like that.

[WelshMourinho]

8 hours ago, Mr Tonio said:

It's clearly not. Just read this thread.

 

7 hours ago, CrowManager said:

I'm not a soccer expert and I don't watch much high level soccer so my question may be out of left but isn't it widely considered that players are expected to do multiple roles/positions these days, is that not part of what total football is about? 

To me it's a bit immersion breaking that a 17 year old backup goalkeeper can come in and do that, they should not be physically ready in most cases, though that is a limited sample size. Isn't it to be semi expected that any random player at the Premier League level can semi reasonably get into positions a bit? As a defender you know what attackers do, lot of it is down to the physicals and mentals, no? 

 

It's a weakness in the match engine, but one that's only prevalent when people do silly stuff like sticking a goalkeeper upfront. The match engine doesn't live second by second like a real game, so whereas in real life if a chance falls to someone who's bad at finishing there's a good chance they miss, FM has already calculated the outcome of the game. 

Some might argue you should be absolutely crap with that level of striker up top, but reality is these examples are almost always shown with 10 solid players behind a dodgy striker and I don't think FM has the intelligence to separate that in the way people expect.

If people want to test the importance of attributes or anything in that sense, there's far better ways of doing it than here's 10 good footballers and a ludicrously out of position striker. 

[DolphinSpain]

18 hours ago, Jack Sarahs said:

Hi @DolphinSpain

I wrote a brief explanation for "step up" / "drop off" in a thread last year.

Hopefully this helps!
 

 

I appreciate the response and the effort you made to try to help with the article. I still feel it could be simplified (the game, not your article) with better explanations/options that are less ambiguous.

[RDF Tactics]

22 hours ago, Hzano123 said:

At the end of the day, it just a computer game with numbers being calculated. It is still possible there to roll the perfect dice for you to get a scenario where these types of thing to happen but the chance might be a little bit too high I do agree.

 

On the other news, I still struggling with my players being very sensitive and angry against me thou.

I was speaking to someone just yesterday and it's a little confusing to how some are supposed to view Football Manager.

On one hand, I can complain/suggest something but get told that "In real life, this and that happens"...so, people understand that as Football Manager are taking the simulation route. Many times we've been told about real life stats etc when they are defending a point.

On the other hand, it's also just a game. It can't be just a game but also a simulation of real life at the same time.

This year, for me and my personal feedback, it feels a lot more like just a game. I don't feel as immersed this year as I had in previous years - but these things play their part. We have so many attributes. I can spend 2/3/4 hours just recruiting, scouting, and looking for particular attributes but it's becoming a thing where it feels like all of that is getting more pointless as time goes on (FM hasn't changed that greatly over the years regarding this sort of thing). Scouting is my favorite thing about FM24 and then tactics. But if my GK with 4 off the ball can make good runs just because he's on AF then it just feels a bit 'meh'.

Edited January 3 by RDF Tactics

[RDF Tactics]

21 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

Wow. This is becoming a regular complaint. Totally unrealistic. Do SI rely on the fact the gamers (paying customers) don’t try anything ridiculous because if they do, the game gets found out. SI please address this. It’s important. If you have a valid explanation that would be great.

It's been a thing for a little while and there is content out there with people doing tests like putting their GK or CB as the Striker and seeing how many they can score etc.

I guess, it's avoidable. You don't have to put your GK as a Striker if you don't want to. There's that argument.

But for me, it's more about what the attributes really mean and what effect they have on the ME. It's never black and white. You can have a James Milner and though he can't play as a Striker at all, if you do decide to play him there then yeah, he should play somewhat Okay as a Striker given he has really high versatility, professionalism, teamwork and determination. It makes sense to why you can play someone like James Milner up front. He has many hidden attributes that complement the move. His main attributes are also decent level.

But then, Alisson, for example, has 0 score as a Striker. His versatility is also 0. This should not work at all (according to attributes in FM). 

[g1nh0]

It is laughable that the example of a Keeper playing up front scoring goals for fun at Premier League standard and against world class players too - but, I would actually get it if you tried this out at Non-League level, simply because the players aren't professional and the teams / players you're playing against are of a really poor standard.

Only way I would accept this happening is if there was a player with hidden attributes with an ability to actually play up front. Perhaps a player at a much younger age had experience at a youth level playing out on pitch or up front, and so I would expect them to perform better in this forward role at a lower level than someone whose never had any experience there whatsoever.

[Jonthedon26]

I don't like to complain about this game as the series has been in my life for as long as I can remember, however it is becoming all the more frustrating. 

I am in January with Birmingham City and I was having a look through some Premier League squads for possible loan signings, I noticed Liverpool signed Emerson Royal in the summer for a wild fee (think it was £60mil) and he has literally made zero appearances and is currently unhappy. He hasn't had any injuries or anything that has kept him out either. I thought the "Improved AI" was one of the main "features" this year. This isn't a one off either, some of the transfers the AI makes are just baffling, signing players they really don't need, for crazy fees and then rarely playing them. 

I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes in the making of FM, but it really feels like the team spend all the development cycle working on the match engine and data input, and everything else gets left behind. There have been certain bugs/issues in the game for years and years that haven't been addressed still. 

[Rodrigogc]

8 minutos atrás, g1nh0 disse:

It is laughable that the example of a Keeper playing up front scoring goals for fun at Premier League standard and against world class players too - but, I would actually get it if you tried this out at Non-League level, simply because the players aren't professional and the teams / players you're playing against are of a really poor standard.

Only way I would accept this happening is if there was a player with hidden attributes with an ability to actually play up front. Perhaps a player at a much younger age had experience at a youth level playing out on pitch or up front, and so I would expect them to perform better in this forward role at a lower level than someone whose never had any experience there whatsoever.

 

That's the whole point. The problem is not the GK scoring at all, but he scores against Arsenal and Liverpool playing for Fulham! It's a indicative that it doesn't matter his attributes or there's something wrong with the Roles. 

[Marko1989]

On 02/01/2024 at 17:12, Sunstrikuuu said:

Another relatively minor irritation that's been in the game forever:

£105 million for arguably the best winger in the game is a breathtaking bid, I guess, but in the wrong direction.  Jamal Muisla is being linked to clubs for £150m or more, Vinicius Jr for £250m, and Khvicha Kvaratskhelia  for £197m (Arsenal's Martinelli is linked for £106m, which is another data point here).  I know it doesn't matter because I as Arsenal's manager get to choose how much I sell Saka for, but it's odd that Saka's linked to clubs for 60% or less of what his peers are linked to clubs for.  Likewise Saliba's £81m suggested pricetag is more than £50m less than De Ligt, £130m less than Gvardiol, and £90m less than Levi Colwill.  Martin Odegaard's £100m pricetag -- Bernardo Silva's is 2.5x as much, Bruno Fernandez is more than double, Foden is 2.25x.

Valuation is weird, and it's not entirely cosmetic, because these values affect player happiness with the asking price you put on them.  And happiness is a whole thing.

I didn't buy FM 24 and this is one of among many reasons I don't want to buy it. Valuation is just weird and makes 0 sense.

My friend does have FM24 I was checking the "player search" screen and there are players valued at 400.000.000+.. Like what the heck.. Kvaratskhelia in his save is 360.000.000 even though he is still in Napoli. And we all know in reality they would probably sell him for 3X less money. I have no idea how they even approved such a bad valuation system

Edited January 4 by Marko1989

[g1nh0]

I think there's always been a significant imbalance of roles in FM in general, and the AF-A as the striker role has always been overpowered.

Unfortunately it seems extended to playing x2 DM-S this year too. And the more exquisite roles have always not been the most effective to play either, which I've always found a shame as you're forced to end up playing the same tactics, if looking for results at least.

Everything sadly just seems significantly worse this year, apart from the football you can watch on the ME.

[RDF Tactics]

I've commented here a fair bit without actually dropping my own feedback of FM24. Now it really is 2024 haha I feel it's a good time to leave feedback given we've had multiple updates up to now.

I'm sorry if this comes across as cringe. My name is RDF Tactics, I stream and make YouTube content on Football Manager. Like many, I've been playing the game ever since I can remember and for that, I'm extremely passionate. Sometimes I find it hard to separate that passion from any criticism I have (same goes for when I'm praising the game) but I haven't played the game for nearly a full month so I feel I can make a more well-thought-of post.

1) With the mention of FM25, as sad as it is, I am already ready for FM25 and its release. My business regarding saves in FM24 feels like it's already done. During early access, my first few experiences really did feel like this was 'the most polished version' of Football Manager but the more hours I put in and actually played the game and used the majority of its features, I personally don't agree with it being the most polished version or close to it. Not a game as a whole anyway, maybe certain features are really well-polished. 

There are pre-existing issues in the game. Issues that have been issues for at least a couple of years which have yet to be polished or fixed. That itself is one reason why this can't be the most polished version in my eyes. Picking up this game new and leaving FM23, it was exciting that potentially some issues would be fixed. The interface is a big one for me. Creating your own view is really buggy. Player searching, some of the chalkboard searches don't work. These are issues that have been reported multiple times throughout the years. This for me makes it difficult to really enjoy FM24 as a new game. Rather than it feeling like the same game with an update. I've only picked out two examples but there are many more pre-existing issues that still exist.

2) The changes to the ME was actually quite a surprise. In terms of the new animations, ball physics etc, I feel we got more there than we asked for.

But again, annoying things from previous FMs are still very present when you are playing a match in Football Manager. I'm speaking from personal experience. I hit the woodwork an insane amount per season, and having games where I'm hitting it 5/6/7 times. Why it happens, I don't know but it really shouldn't be. I have many clips from Twitch where I've predicted the outcome of a highlight (us hitting the woodwork) purely because it's happened too often.

Penalties given when watching the ME, the contact is clearly outside the box. This is a graphical glitch I believe rather than the ref incorrectly giving a penalty but it's another thing that's been in the game and continues to be in the game. In my inbox, I get messages from the media referring to a male player as 'she, her, he and him' all in the same message. Another issue that was there before updates.

AI keeper being superman whereas my keeper can't save a thing. Maybe this is a moan, maybe. But I know football well enough to know this doesn't consistently happen to one team - like many things in the game. It's not an issue it being in the game but the regularity in which it happens. AI keeper being able to make 10 saves in a game is something I've yet got to see my keeper do. Very often the AI would have 2/3 shots on target and all going in. Again, must stress, this happens in real life. But in FM, it happens often and in all my saves.

3) Sort of touched on it in the last sentence of point 2. Many of my saves feels like the same experience. Woodwork, woodwork, dominate games AI score with only shot on target, players moan about same thing etc. I've managed many different teams so that means many different people and personalities but it very much feels like a similar experience. The same training complaints "not enough strength or quickness training" and more or less the same in-game advice despite different tactic and different staff. I've had different DOFs with different attributes recommend basically the same players.

Apologies if this feels like yet another moan, but it's not. I'm just offering my feedback.

I am someone who is not shy to post or contact someone about bugs neither. Believe it or not, I'm frequent with reporting stuff but the majority of it is private. But for almost everything I've reported, nothing really has been fixed. That's not a criticism, shot at developers or anything. FM isn't about me so what I say shouldn't be on some urgent list. But this has incredibly affected my play on FM to a point I struggle to open and play an actual save now. Because I'm coming across the same issues I have in previous saves and FMs.

Please, this also isn't so people can pile their criticism on the game. I only want the game to be the best it can be and not cause problems with staff on the game or staff/mods here. We can get more-or-less on the same page but this is just my experience/feedback. I still enjoy the game when searching around for wonderkids and creating tactics. But playing an actual save has become very difficult for me, knowing what I'm going to get.

I only post this here because there's really nowhere else for me to post. Twitter can be very toxic as a creator. And even privately, I'm not even sure where to turn anymore because I feel the perception of me is someone that is a nuisance rather than someone that just wants to help in one way or another.

Edited January 3 by RDF Tactics

[Jimmy Wong]

On 31/12/2023 at 11:20, whatsupdoc said:

Example of attributes not mattering enough:

Put my 17 year old back-up keeper in the AF role for a couple of games:

Note the 1 off the ball, 3 first touch etc etc.

First game in the league cup we won 5-0, he scored and finished on a 7.6 rating:

 

Second game away to Arsenal we lost 5-2 but he scores and rates 7.1.

 

Next game at home to Liverpool, Van Dijk is no match for him as he scores for the third game running and we run out 3-2 winners: 

 

Conversion rate of 43% from 0.23 XG/shot.

C

 

Thanks for the feedback and for providing PKM files and saves for our match team. To clarify, attributes 100% matter in FM as better teams tend to do better in matches and in higher league positions.

[bartex55]

55 minutes ago, WelshMourinho said:

It's a weakness in the match engine, but one that's only prevalent when people do silly stuff like sticking a goalkeeper upfront. The match engine doesn't live second by second like a real game, so whereas in real life if a chance falls to someone who's bad at finishing there's a good chance they miss, FM has already calculated the outcome of the game. 

Some might argue you should be absolutely crap with that level of striker up top, but reality is these examples are almost always shown with 10 solid players behind a dodgy striker and I don't think FM has the intelligence to separate that in the way people expect.

If people want to test the importance of attributes or anything in that sense, there's far better ways of doing it than here's 10 good footballers and a ludicrously out of position striker. 

This is not the case. For several years now, the FM-Arena community has conducted many tests showing that only speed, acceleration and, to some extent, jumping reach matter. It seems that this year dribbling has been boosted to the level of jumping reach, but the rest of the attributes have negligible or no effect.
In these tests there is a control group with default attributes compared to other groups with +5/-5 in a given attribute across all the positions. Let's say a team with default attributes managed 60 points in a season. The group with -5 Pace has only managed 29 points and the group with +5 Pace has managed 81 points. But then we have groups like the one with -5 Passing that managed 57 points (only 3 points less over the season) and the +5 Passing group that only managed 59 points.
Other attributes had no impact or at best 1-3 points. We are talking about +/- 5 in all positions throughout the season. The tests were repeated thousands of times.
I think it is safe to say that speed, acceleration and jumping reach are all that matter in this game. No wonder even GK with decent pace can be a decent striker in this context.
But there are still people on this site who are in denial about it. It's sad that a game you've been playing since CM 01/02 lies to you about 90% of its supposed features. But it becomes obvious when you realise that even basic functionality, such as squad building, scouting and the transfer market, doesn't work properly. Why would anyone believe that more advanced things such as player movement, decision-making, accuracy and other mental/technical aspects of match simulation would be taken care of when, in reality, even the most basic functions don't work?
Back to attributes, however. There is always the argument that this negligible impact of attributes actually gains in strength when there are, say, 10 of them. You go from 1-3 points per season to 10-30 points. Now there is a big difference, yes. But players with -5 in 10 attributes are considered lower league players and shouldn't be able to compete with top league players. And with some speed/acc advantage they can even outplay them.

I know I sound bitter and overly critical, so I want to end on a more positive note. I'm not saying that the developers are deceiving us in this regard by putting some placebo attributes in the game. Maybe it's just a massive balancing issue that has arisen after years of changing the match engine. Or maybe it's a database problem, mainly an unbalanced distribution of attributes by researchers, and perhaps there should be greater differences in mentals/technicals between players considered to be of different quality. Put simply, distribute more 1's and 20's in mentals/technicals.
But the most important thing to do is to nerf pace, especially in players with the ball. Adama Traore, Dan James are not necessarily less talented in other areas. In reality, the faster a player runs, the less time he has to think and the harder it is for him to control the ball or make even the simplest pass. The game does not take this into account. Simple debuffs to other attributes when a player breaks the next speed thresholds would be sufficient. Then perhaps a high technique attribute could act as a counterbalance to prevent these debuffs from occurring, to take into account players like KDB who can do everything efficiently, even while at top speed.

[MrPompey]

On 03/01/2024 at 12:58, Jimmy Wong said:

Thanks for the feedback and for providing PKM files and saves for our match team. To clarify, attributes 100% matter in FM as better teams tend to do better in matches and in higher league positions.

What I dont understand here Jimmy is that SI fix focus is being given to unlikely human initiated action playing a goal keeper as  striker up front (as an ME Test) yet basic issues such as issues for marking at free kicks is being ignored even though they are raised in the correct thread e.g. bug section and not here

Edited January 4 by MrPompey

[NineCloudNine]

The match engine devs are aware of the potency of pace & acceleration because those attributes have very large CA multipliers for positions where they are especially important, notably AML/R. That’s why almost all speedy wingers in FM have terrible mental attributes - there’s not enough CA left for them.

My favourite example of this is Ousmane Dembele, who has the mental attributes of a small child combined with the physicals of an Olympic sprinter. IRL he is an infuriatingly inconsistent and frustrating player as a result, but in FM he is a monster.

The weighting of attributes via CA multipliers is clearly a balancing mechanism to link the attributes ascribed by researchers to the way the ME works. This is a fiendishly difficult thing to balance. It is true that pace is devastating in real football, but the ME does seem to take this to an extreme and the use of CA multipliers to balance it (1) doesn’t really work and (2) makes every speedy winger in FM look one-dimensional. 

Edited January 3 by NineCloudNine

[Rodrigogc]

27 minutos atrás, bartex55 disse:

I think it is safe to say that speed, acceleration and jumping reach are all that matter in this game. 

 

True, and it's been like this for a while. Managing St Pauli in FM23, I bought Berke from Koln, a GK with great Jumping reach, for only 550k. Turned out he was beating records playing for my team, 5 seasons straight scoring more than 7.2 average. That attribute is all that matters for GKs.

 

And not only physical atributes like pace seem to be too important, in contrast, mental attributes without physical seems pointless. There are positions where players are usually slow, like DMs, but in FM it is hard to get players like Busquets to perform the way he does in real life, simply because he has no pace. 

Edited January 3 by Rodrigogc

[Jimmy Wong]

29 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

What I dont understand here Jimmy is that SI fix focus is being given to unlikely human initiated action playing a striker up front (as an ME Test) yet basic issues such as issues for marking at free kicks is being ignored even though they are raised in the correct thread e.g. bug section and not here

We always prioritise issues by their impact, visibility, frequency, realism, etc. We certainly don't discriminate or give bias based on where the bug was raised. The difference between posting a bug report in the Bug Tracker and elsewhere (i.e., the feedback thread) is that the issue will be presented in a disgustable format, allowing a more focused conversation between the bug reporter and our team.

[tezcatlipoca665]

53 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I don't like to complain about this game as the series has been in my life for as long as I can remember, however it is becoming all the more frustrating. 

I am in January with Birmingham City and I was having a look through some Premier League squads for possible loan signings, I noticed Liverpool signed Emerson Royal in the summer for a wild fee (think it was £60mil) and he has literally made zero appearances and is currently unhappy. He hasn't had any injuries or anything that has kept him out either. I thought the "Improved AI" was one of the main "features" this year. This isn't a one off either, some of the transfers the AI makes are just baffling, signing players they really don't need, for crazy fees and then rarely playing them. 

I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes in the making of FM, but it really feels like the team spend all the development cycle working on the match engine and data input, and everything else gets left behind. There have been certain bugs/issues in the game for years and years that haven't been addressed still. 

Just so you know (and so you aren't needlessly waiting): it's been confirmed in a bug report thread that the development team are happy with how the AI transfer and squad building logic is working, so it's not something that's going to be fixed in any upcoming patches. There's not really anything that can be done.

[MrPompey]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy Wong said:

We always prioritise issues by their impact, visibility, frequency, realism, etc. We certainly don't discriminate or give bias based on where the bug was raised. The difference between posting a bug report in the Bug Tracker and elsewhere (i.e., the feedback thread) is that the issue will be presented in a disgustable format, allowing a more focused conversation between the bug reporter and our team.

My point here is that issue above with goalkeepers as out field players is a user created/generated specific issue that would not normally happen. The free kick marking issue is an ME generated problem and we do see a lot of free kicks in FM as well as real life

Interestingly in the news recently we saw an injury laden team playing a reserve keeper as an outfield player who scored a goal

[SimonHoddle]

1 hour ago, RDF Tactics said:

It's been a thing for a little while and there is content out there with people doing tests like putting their GK or CB as the Striker and seeing how many they can score etc.

I guess, it's avoidable. You don't have to put your GK as a Striker if you don't want to. There's that argument.

But for me, it's more about what the attributes really mean and what effect they have on the ME. It's never black and white. You can have a James Milner and though he can't play as a Striker at all, if you do decide to play him there then yeah, he should play somewhat Okay as a Striker given he has really high versatility, professionalism, teamwork and determination. It makes sense to why you can play someone like James Milner up front. He has many hidden attributes that complement the move. His main attributes are also decent level.

But then, Alisson, for example, has 0 score as a Striker. His versatility is also 0. This should not work at all (according to attributes in FM). 

And the fact it’s a 17yo GK, as opposed to Milner, succeeding as a striker is a red flag. I don’t want SI to go all open source. I just want some transparency and honesty. We all know perfect is the enemy of the good so we’re not demanding perfect. But we do need to know more about how the game/ matches work and where the faults lie.
 

I really wouldnt give a damn if SI said marking is working imperfectly or attacking throws appear to be OP. But we are always left guessing if it’s our rubbish tactics or training or an in game blip. They don’t acknowledge their imperfections and their CEO broadcasts about love letters. Just cut the fluff, no more pretending trap outside isnt just another name for defend narrow and treat us like loyal customers. 

 

 

 

Edited January 3 by SimonHoddle

[WelshMourinho]

1 hour ago, RDF Tactics said:

AI keeper being superman whereas my keeper can't save a thing. Maybe this is a moan, maybe. But I know football well enough to know this doesn't consistently happen to one team - like many things in the game. It's not an issue it being in the game but the regularity in which it happens. AI keeper being able to make 10 saves in a game is something I've yet got to see my keeper do. Very often the AI would have 2/3 shots on target and all going in. Again, must stress, this happens in real life. But in FM, it happens often and in all my saves.

3) Sort of touched on it in the last sentence of point 2. Many of my saves feels like the same experience. Woodwork, woodwork, dominate games AI score with only shot on target, players moan about same thing etc. I've managed many different teams so that means many different people and personalities but it very much feels like a similar experience. The same training complaints "not enough strength or quickness training" and more or less the same in-game advice despite different tactic and different staff. I've had different DOFs with different attributes recommend basically the same players.

I've experienced this a lot too and it's incredibly grating. Where keepers are concerned it feels like an arbitrary balancing act. If I'm creating lots of chances then the AI keeper becomes god because otherwise we'd rack up the score, whereas my keeper has to let in the few attempts against him otherwise we'd have a silly goals conceded record. As soon as we play a team capable of creating lots of chances against us, it switches and he becomes competent again. The only way I see this being 'fixed' as such is if the game created less chances as a whole.

I agree with the part about personalities etc feeling the same too. You'd have thought the most professional sorts would behave better but they seem to be exactly the same, in regards to transfer moves etc, as those who should be a bit more temperamental and a bit more ambitious. It feels like personality is strictly a development thing now, as opposed to how a player actually is.